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xibo
27-08-2007, 23:02
Hello

Im wondering how 'strong' common relics actually are ( common = those which a noname imperial priest like you can put into your IG/WH roster can get his hands on for 40/50 points )...
are those just all fake* and supposed to only have psychological effects on the imperial forces, or can they be released to kill His enemies on their own ( thereby again animating the imperial forces around of it due to their believe the emperor is fighting with them )...

*emphasis 'all', not 'some' or 'most'

[SD] Bob Plisskin
28-08-2007, 00:38
I'm not quite sure what you mean but I guess the answer is probably determined by how you take the idea of religeon in the 40kverse.

sometimes the fluff seems to suggest that anything spirtual/religeous is explained by science we dont quite understand - the warp or psychic powers etc. whilst at other times the religeous/emporer protects thing rates very highly (albeit normally in imperial viewpoint fluff)

Khaine's Messenger
28-08-2007, 09:43
Im wondering how 'strong' common relics actually are ( common = those which a noname imperial priest like you can put into your IG/WH roster can get his hands on for 40/50 points )...

Eh. Since the Imperium is such that unspent bolter rounds can become holy relics (hey, the Legio Angelica Mortis serve at the Right Hand of the Emperor!), questioning the "power" of holy relics seems to open up a can of worms. Mind, this is the same setting where the sheer will to believe sent a crowd of millions into shock just at the unveiling of the Emperor's Hanky.


are those just all fake* and supposed to only have psychological effects on the imperial forces, or can they be released to kill His enemies on their own

The relics that you can field in most armies on the tabletop do not have powers in and of themselves but are instead psychological motivators that sort of give you a portable home-field advantage, much like all of the other morale-boosting effects (standard bearers, vox-casters, etc.). This is not to say that there aren't relics with actual powers, but most of those powers aren't to do with suddenly experiencing the effects of Jedi Battle Meditation.

I'm not sure what you mean by "fake," though. If by fake you mean that they are powerless by themselves, then yes, every holy relic that does not have specified powers is "fake" unless you go out of your way to specify why it has the effects it does. But most people in-universe don't think that way. Otherwise, with "fake" we get into the question of whether that really is St. Jerome's right pinky or a cunning plaster replica...and the Imperium's got to have a huge cottage industry of such things.

Chilltouch
28-08-2007, 10:49
Some sources show the Imperial faith to be an utter farce and doing almost nothing for the Imperium.
Others sources show how the Imperial faith will lead mankind to its destiny as one of the most powerful races in the galaxy.

Choose your poison. Do you want your relic to be a useless trinket, or do you want it to be a amplifier and beacon of the great Imperial Faith?

MadDogMike
28-08-2007, 11:25
I imagine WH40K relics are more or less based on the real world medieval relics. Back then if every saint had had as many fingers as was needed for all those places that claimed to have a "holy fingerbone of St. such-and-so" they would have either needed lots of hand transplants or been particularly "blessed" by Chaos :D. So I imagine there are a LOT of fake relics mixed in with the genuine ones, so there probably isn't any "innate" power in most things considered relics save any particular technology associated with them (like a rosary's force field and such). For the purposes of morale however I imagine most believe in even the fakes enough for them to serve their purpose.

Kage2020
28-08-2007, 12:11
Choose your poison. Do you want your relic to be a useless trinket, or do you want it to be a amplifier and beacon of the great Imperial Faith?
There is, of course, no reason that the two approaches cannot be merged in a defined and consistent interpretation of the 40k universe. :D

Kage

Chilltouch
28-08-2007, 12:37
By amplifier and beacon of the great Imperial Faith, I mean something that might look like a useless trinket but in reality not only boost morale, but also imbue the user with abitlies of a supernatural nature. Just like how Imperial incantations actually have effect against Daemons.

Kage2020
28-08-2007, 13:53
That's something that I would personally consider under "mindless devotion," to be fair. It should protect someone after all! ;)

Kage

[SD] Bob Plisskin
28-08-2007, 15:12
Just like how Imperial incantations actually have effect against Daemons.

Do they? what I always find questionable is whether the actual words act as a sort of spell powered by the emporer (the religeous view). Or maybe the words simply act to build faith and strength of mind allowing the victim to unleash a latent psychic attack that banishes the daemon (scientific fluff). Much of what in 40k the lay-population of the universe sees of as magic is explained to the upper eschelons as the result of science.

maybe there's not much of a muchness we have the same input -> faith and the same output -> banish daemon / fight really hard, just the actual method is altered. I believe that there a quite a lot of hints in the fluff to human's psychic potential that bubbles beneath the surface and the majority of the population do not know anything about... it's why the chaos gods are so powerful yet there seem to be so few psykers relative to none psykers.