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forgottenlor
29-08-2007, 11:41
Obviously you will be able to dominate magic. I think the key is how long you're temple guard unit will hold, since you have so many points in characters and not that many units. If I was playing against you, I would try to get to your infantry as fast as possible and from all sides knowing that every routed slaan is worth mega points.
You will be outnumbered, but you have magic and some shooting, which means it should be a very unpredictable game. It might be fun to try out though. I am not sure I would expect to win a tournament with it though.

Lord Malorne
29-08-2007, 11:41
are you allowed to give slann more than one plaque!

i agree. too many points spent on heoes and magic not enough on infantry.

try some saurus cavalry to keep you in the game against being flanked.

Bazzal
29-08-2007, 11:41
iv got a game on Mon (3rd Sept) and would like ideas/coments on this list (please coment even after game). the game will be against High Elves no special chars.

not too sure what he'll be using, he says lord on dragon is def, and mostly infantry. not much to go on i knw. but anyway heres what am thinking of taking.

General
Slann Mage-Priest: 610

2nd Generation
Plaque of Protection
Cupped Hands of the Old Ones
BsB
Warbanner


Slann Mage-Priest: 560

2nd Generation
Diadem of Power
Plaque of Tepok
Plaque of Dominion


Saurus Oldblood:283

Shield of the Mirrored Pool
Sword of Striking
Aura of Quetzl
Light Armour
Spawnings : Quetzl, Tzunki, Tepok


Saurus Scar-Veteran:172

Burning Blade of Chotec
Enchanted Shield
Talisman of Protection
Light Armour
Spawnings : Quetzl, Sotek


Skink Priest:150

Level 2
Dispel Scroll
Dispel Scroll


Skink Priest:150

Level 2
Dispel Scroll
Dispel Scroll


10 Skink - Blowpipes, Scouts, Brave - 75
10 Skink - Blowpipes, Scouts, Brave - 75
15 Skink - Blowpipes - 90
15 Skink - Blowpipes - 90
15 Skink - Blowpipes - 90
25 Temple Guard - F.Cmd,Shields,Sun Standard of Chotec - 525


20 Saurus Warriors - F.cmd, Spawning of Quetzl - 300
3 Kroxigors - Ancient - 194
4 Terradons - Brave - 150

Salamander Hunting Packs - 2 Salamanders - 130
19 Saurus Warriors - F.cmd, Spears, Spawnings Quetzl, Sotek - 356

Points - 4000
PD - 15 (Slanns +1 to cast, +D6)
DD - 10 (+1 to Dispel, 4 Scrolls)
Models - 142

basically my general will join the temple guard as will the oldblood, making one very tough unit (yes im aware that that one unit takes a huge chunk of points) but it is heavyly protected. this unit will be centralised with kroxigors on one side and the salamanders on the other.

the magic slann will join the 20 saurus and will be beside the sauris block with spear who is joined with the scar vet. with this the uni should be able to assit either slann.

the priests will be hiding as much as pos from fire, while still helping with line of sight and hopefully a few bolts of lightning against pesky bolt throwers (if any). the skink units will be deployed infront of the slanns units wit the other 15 infront of the kroxigors. the scouts and terradons job is simple slow down his movement and take out bolt throwers.

i havent built this army to face just high elves iv built it as a general army to deal with most armies, the main key being dominate magic whcih slann mages do very well, i only expect to get a few spells off as he should hav a few dispel scrolls and +1 to dispel.

i think thats everything any questions just ask and comment away. oh and the only extra models i have are skink a few saurus.

happy_doctor
29-08-2007, 20:00
some thoughts:
-your "magic" slann is quite vulnerable. Against 4k of HE, be prepared to face a lot of bolt throwers, and he is one big juicy target for them, even with his 4+ ward. Beng in a unit of saurus warriors, he is vulnerable to CR as well.A flank charge by some silver helms and he'll be running for the hills (remember, only temple guard are stubborn). If he dies, you lose 1000 pts, assuming the unit gets ran down.

-both of your slann units are vulnerable to terror. with one slann it's fine, with two of them you double the possibility of giving your opponent a huge chunk of points just by fumbling a Ld test. (next turn he'll catch you with flyers, rest assured)

Bottom line on the slann: you can't protect both of them adequately (in my opinion). Keep one of them, give him the plaque of tepok, the plaque of protection and the banehead (to get rid of a BSB or a prince quickly), and if you've got the points equip him with the totem of prophecy. Inside the TG, he'll be virtually unbreakable (only panic can be your downfall in a bad-dice day...)

-give your saurus oldblood the charm of the jaguar warrior, the scimitar and the maiming shield, along with the blessing of sotek. 9 Str5 attacks on the charge,he'll break any given HE infantry unit with ease... This will help you bring down his magic defense (charge units with archmages inside, break them, run them down)

-Get a skink chief with the cloak of feathers to use as a warmachine hunter and mage killer. The set-up could be:cloak, xtra hand weapon, blessing of sotek.20" charge and 5 str4 attacks will be enough for bolt thrower crews.

-Kroxigors: make them 4 (if you don't have the model, proxy it !!! :D), the'll work wonders for you. (oh, and just watch your opponent's face as he hears 12 str7 attacks...classic!)

-give your temple guard the banner of huanchi. this way you might be able to get a charge early on the game (even a flank one), and start making points back..

-get more skinks, units of 10.literally swamp the battlefield. 60 poisoned shots might even fell a dragon in a turn or two!

Other than that, I'd like to see another unit of 20-ish saurus,maybe you could cut down on the temple guard so as to get more saurus models???

P.S. I realize that the 2 slann thing is also a way to get to the 4000 pts limit, but i'm discussing what would be more effective. Feel free to field them nonetheless! (and let us know how they worked for you...)

Hope I helped, sorry for tearing the list apart :angel:
On a final note, do try to field the oldblood and the skink chief.They will add much-needed manoeuvrablity to the list..

Happy_doctor

Bazzal
29-08-2007, 22:47
in answers to happy doctors help :-)

'-your "magic" slann is quite vulnerable. Against 4k of HE, be prepared to face a lot of bolt throwers, and he is one big juicy target for them, even with his 4+ ward. Beng in a unit of saurus warriors, he is vulnerable to CR as well.A flank charge by some silver helms and he'll be running for the hills (remember, only temple guard are stubborn). If he dies, you lose 1000 pts, assuming the unit gets ran down.'

i agree one slann is vunrable and for this i am considering giving him the bane head as i know the HE will ahve a dragon, so he should be able to take it down. in combat i plan to keep the unit of warriors close by incase anything get close, if pos i am gointo try and keep all saurus with in the BSB range so that panic and terror shouldnt be a prob as Ld 9 with re-roll.

iv considered giving the jaguar charm to the oldblood beofore but i didnt like the idea of him getting into enemy lines all alone, with only terradons able to keep up. another option i have recently considered was a skink hero, staff of the lost sun and bane head scouting for character killing. or at the very least rbt.

luckly i recieved my additional models today and to my shock (and great hapiness0 a kroxigor was in the spares box, so i have built him up and added him to the list.

i beleive my temple guard banner ismore useful as it does give -1 to shooting, so slann being large is nulified, meaning RBT hittin on 5's. which is needed as im almost positive he'll have 4+ RBT.

65 skink isnt enough?? i only have another 15-20 spare so i cant push much more and i am unsure what to drop.

but this is my first 4k lizzie army as i am use to playing 2k with 2nd gen slann, 60 skink, krox, terradons, 2 priests and 26 saurus (which hav failed to loose yet) i felt 2 slanns should be able to keep back anythin that comes my way, true any fast moving units such as silver helms do scare me as i knw his ranked up units will take 2+ turns to reach me, if i dnt move much. so my plan was lore of metal with both mages, with basic magic missiles, hopefully getting more powerful ones, and the skink providing additional suport with either magic shields for range protection, d3 re rollin dice for panic/terror tests, or lightning RBT with no range limits. this is a very heavy magic army and i think iv lost the def by doing that. but depending on terrain i may keep the weaker slann (magic one) hidin and use priest for line of sight, as my general can easly take the hits, jsut in combat he'd lack, although dead on the unit is +7 to combat res, with the oldbloods atks and 11 from the unit. flank atks are a problem. to which im hoping the extra saurus and krox can help with.

again thank you for your help and i'll re read my list tonite n see wht changes i can make. keep the comments coming as theres only a few days to go and i want to give the HE a run for there money.

i'll let you know what happens witht the game and the final list i'll use :-) thanks again

RE-VISED LIST

witht the game only a few days away i have thougth long and hard and changed my list slightly, going by coments made and models i have.

General
Slann Mage-Priest: 610
2nd Generation
Plaque of Protection
Cupped Hands of the Old Ones
BsB
Warbanner

Slann Mage-Priest: 560
2nd Generation
Diadem of Power
Plaque of Tepok
Plaque of Dominion

Saurus Scar-Veteran: 176
Shield of the Mirrored Pool
Great Weapon
Venom of the firefly frog
Light Armour
Spawnings : Quetzl, Tepok

Saurus Scar-Veteran:172
Sword of Battle
Enchanted Shield
Talisman of Protection
Light Armour
Spawnings : Quetzl, Tepok

Skink Priest:150
Level 2
Dispel Scroll
Dispel Scroll

Skink Priest:140
Level 2
Cube of Darkness

10 Skink - Blowpipes, Scouts, Brave - 75
10 Skink - Blowpipes, Scouts, Brave - 75
10 Skink - Blowpipes, Scouts, Brave - 75
17 Skink - Blowpipes - 102
17 Skink - Blowpipes - 102
17 Skink - Blowpipes - 102
25 Temple Guard - F.Cmd,Shields,Jaguar Standard - 510

19 Saurus Warriors - F.cmd, Spawning of Quetzl - 288
4 Kroxigors - Ancient - 252
4 Terradons - Brave - 150

Salamander Hunting Packs - 2 Salamanders - 130
20 Saurus Warriors - F.cmd, Spawnings Quetzl, Sotek - 330

Points - 3999
PD - 15 (Slanns +1 to cast, +D6)
DD - 11 (+1 to Dispel, 3 Scrolls)
Models - 161

hope this is an improvement, let me knwo what you think, im finding out 2moorw what i'll be up against :-)

Bazzal
02-09-2007, 19:53
ok so just heard backa nd the guy is now using chaos undivided at 4k, not sure what to expect really. but at 3k he had hell cannon, 8 furries, 3 ogres, 5 maruser horsemen, 10 knights, unit of beastigors, unit of beats with gw, 2 units of chaos warriors and a unit of maruders, plus bsb, shamen, another lv4 and some heroes.

so my units wont have to fear to much from shooting, cept the hell cannon, but im hoping my scouts can hold it up, as they did before (for 4 turns of the game, and this was just 10 skink scouts) so im hoping to start pelting that thing and hope i poisin the dwarfs enough to kill them. in combat im afrid i'd get beaten to a pulp (as this happened at 3k) i may change the banner of chotec to either the huanchis blessed totem or jaguar standard, on the od chance i break the knights. but im afriad with another 1k another lord choice it might be the tzeench on disc guy, fast and anoying.

any ideas for general combat? or any final revisions that should be considdered? btw game is in bout 15 hrs so quick comments needed, and i'll let you knwo how it goes tomorrow.

happy_doctor
03-09-2007, 09:09
OK, it's all about effectiveness here:
Just by killing the knights, you're WAY ahead in the game!
So:

-TAKE THE OLDBLOOD! Give him the charm of jaguar warrior and the revered blade of Tzunki (the no armour saves), Blessing of sotek,enchanted shield,blessing of the old ones,blessing of quetzl,LA, shield.OK, he is expensive, but he'll cut through the knights in no time...and any other heavily armoured unit your opponent will field.You are playing 4k, so you have the Lord Slot. (Tactics:start him inside a saurus unit and then charge before getting charged...obvious targets:tzeentch lodr on disk, knights.)

-Never forget to use drain magic on his mages!It will give you the edge and help you keep dispel dice to use with the diadem of power.

-Drop the protective plaque on the slann.Why? Well, the only warmachine is the hellcannon.It will shoot maximum 6 times in a game, and will probably make that all-important hit once, dealing D6 wounds, still not enough to kill the mage.

-Give the BSB slann the bane head.Then take the 1st spell from the lore of metal and kill one of his characters in turn 2.

-drop some temple guard to save some points.

-try to field your skinks in smaller units, so as to m ake them more manoeuverable. (for example, make them into units of 13, and take another unit)

-drop the ancient kroxigor.It gives the chaos player the opportunity to challenge, and thus avoid an extra 9 attacks (assuming he charged a lone hero in).

-take another salamander, making them 3.

-11 dispel dice and 3 dsispel scrolls is overkill.Drop a blessing of tepok and a scroll.Consider dropping one skink priest, the slann will do the whole job anyway..You just need one to ensure LOS via the slann telepathy.

-saurus warriors are fine, but give your temple guard the banner of huanchi!!

-slow your opponent's units with mistress of the marsh, so as to get the charge (and the extra attacks from the blessing of sotek)

-never face the warriors one on one. Your saurus will do welll against beasts (and anything using Great weapons.), but will not stand a chance one-on-one against chosen warriors.So, get a multiple charge in, and try to soften these units in the shooting and magic phases.
Try to neutralize the fast cavalry early in the game.

-on a final note, you could swap the rare-choice saurus unit for another unit of temple guard (if you can muster the models or proxy them.) it will give you a rock-hard centre, at the same points cost.

give us feedback on the game! (oh, and i hope you get to read this before playing :D)

Bazzal
09-09-2007, 15:58
well the game took place last week, very sorry happy_doctor i didnt get your message intime, and it would of really been useful in this game.

any way he used:
deamon prince lv 4
brae shamen
lv 2 sorcerer
another lv4

BSB in with maruaders (25) f.cmd
5 knights + exhalted champ.
20 bloodletters
beast heard 20+
giant
3 ogres
hellcannon
20 warriors + mounted lv 4
gors (gw 20+)
8 furries
2 spawn

i think thats everything

i used the 2nd list (2 scar vets)

deployment for him was (from left to right) 2 spawn, hell cannon, maruaders, warriors, bloodletters, bestagors, knights, furries, deamon prince, giant, ogres. with the beast herd in front of all the trrops (meart shield).

deployment for me (from left to right) 10 scouts (as no room on his side), salamanders, templeguard with general slann, 20 warriors, kroxigors, terradons behind them, warriors with slann, scout unit. the scar vet in this unit, and one with shield of the mirrored pool in the generals, my other scout was placed behind his hellcannon, and my scounts were put in front of all my units (my meat shield, for the no shooting he had :-S ) and my skink priest wew put one either end of the field.

anyway, he won turn one, little movement except to move his heard out of the way in order to cast spells from his sorcerers. the furies, prince and giant moved up the right flank. his spawn moved towards my scout unit behind the cannon one only moved 4" the other 11" and into charge, i stood and shot causing 4 poison hits, auto killing the spawn. magic and he attempted a conflagartion of doom, rolling 4 dice and getting 16, i used cube of darkness . auot diepelling and roleld a 5 for ending the magic phase,my slann stored two dice. next the shooting phase, he attempted the hell cannon, gussed 42" right behind my generals unit, he rolled the scatter and artillary and got a misfire. a 6 was rolled, all spellcasters take 1 wound no saves, his mounted lv 4 had regeneration and saved his wound. with this he ended his turn.

my turn, the terradons headed to the left flank, planning on killing some sorcerers. all skink moved up witht he troops behind them, the salamanders marched and my movement was done. magic :-) my slann (general) attempted a hand of death against the beast herd, alas even with a IF i was short on range. my other slann cast healing energy upon the closest skink priest, he then cast fireball on the furries babequing one. with no other offensive/good spells i let my skink attempt a thunder bolt, getting snake eyes and taking a wound killing him (i hate the hell cannon) i saved 2 dice and went to shooting. my scouts were the only one sin range so they shot the spwan, again inflicting 4 poison hits auto killing.

the next 2 tuens were uneventful as we both moved our armys towards each other, me bbq as much as i could, with little effect, only killing the furries and maruder horsemen, i picked out the unit of maruders on the left and kept weekening them until only the bsb and champ remained. i killed the chaos swarfs on the cannon, letting it run free, hopin gitd hit his units. he got the charge on my scouts which i just fled off the board as there was no way of woundin the beast and it can do more damage o him than me currently. on the right i was getting hammered by the giant, kngihts and demon. with all 3 charging my slann and winning combat he fled and was run down, a massive low for my magic. in response i charged my terradons at his beast herd and killed the brae, loosing and auto fleeing (right into range of the hell annon next turn) and my unit of saurus charged the bloodletters unleashing 16 S4 attacks and winning combat by a lot meaning them went pop and i over ran into the beast herd.

in the last few turns my salamanders ran downt he remaining maruders, not before the bsb jumped ship into the warriors, which i charged into, unfortunatly i failed to wound and his attacks back was more than enough to wipe ourt the unit. the hell cannon indeed kill my terradons, the beast herd killed and overran my saurus leaving me with just my general slann and his unit, along with 2 units of skink who had run interror from the giant but rallied at the endge of the board, and had remainded there for a turn. so with just my slann remaining, and he having more than enough dice to handle my magic, my turn 6 ended, luckly none of his units were in charge range and all magic was stopped and thuis eneded the game. but thanks to the excedingly large number of points in ym slanns unit (bout 1450) and the spare skink. this combined with the number of units i had taken down to half strength (pretty much all except the warriors) meant that it was a solid victory 50pts away from a minor victory. now yes i did loose but i have played him a few times and never got anything but a massacre, and even people in my club were shocked that i didnt get massacred so it was a triumph for me :-).

my next game is in a week at 2500 pts against his high elves (for def this time, i hope)