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Manifest
29-08-2007, 21:25
Hey everyone, I'm set to play a game against High Elves this weekend, and I've never played against them before.
All I know about my opponent is that he has a magic heavy list, and that High Elf spearmen fight in three ranks.


What other things should I look out for, and what units should I make it a point to take?

He Who Is Him
30-08-2007, 06:46
I would run a Casket of Souls. Elves are one of my favorite races to run it against. I'll give you 2 more casting die, hurt his spellcasters, and evles usually have pretty costly models with only a moderate leadership (8 or 9 I think). If he runs a lot of calv, the light of death will pay for its on the first turn. Run it with some some good tough units (Tomb Guard, Scorps, maybe Ushabti) and some smaller units to try and slow his march (Tomb Swarm, maybe skele warriors). You can equip your fighting characters better than his, so try some challenges. I like the TK shooting list against elves, but have seen some quick attack lists work with lots of chariots and Ushabti and scorps. And equip ur priests with dispell equipment.

warlord hack'a
30-08-2007, 07:09
high elves: good magic (not the best out there but amongst the top), high weapon skill, high ballistic skill high initiative, high LD, quite some special rules and units and magic items, decent armour save, basic movement of 5.

However: low T and usually low S hits. So in short, get chariots, they will eat elves for breakfast, counter his magic and maybe work some of your own and generally find a way to avoid charging head on into high elf spearmen and find a way to avoid having his troops charge you which is quite difficult seeing as the basic elves movement is 5 inches.

Oh yes and get something to take out his reaper bolt throwers as they will otherwise eat through your most expensive unit at an alarming rate..

forgottenlor
30-08-2007, 07:14
High elves have 3 strengths, namely manouverability, good shooting and magic. They are however, even more expensive then your troops, and so you won't be going against many units.
I would not take big blocks of skeletons with hand weapon and shield. They will simply get avoided, or if you do use them to protect a flank.
You will want a swarm, carrion, and scorpions to counter war machines, wizatds, and archers.
I think your archers should do well do. Ok, so they are not as good as the elf arhcers, but they are cheaper and don't panic and the elfs die easily (except the heavy calvary).
I would not take Ushabti or light calvary. They die to easily to missle fire.

Manifest
30-08-2007, 18:43
I've got two lists I'm considering running.
The first is a fairly fast moving aggressive list, with a lot of big units to try and auto break him.
The second is more shooty, and intending to lock down his magic phase as much as possible. (A magical stalemate would probably work in my favor here).

List 1:

Tomb Prince
Armor Of The Ages
Talisman Of Protection
Inside a unit of 24 skeletons w/ champion and standard, hand weapons, shields, and light armor.

Liche Priest (heirophant)
Jar
Cloak of dunes

Liche Priest
dispell scroll
dispell scroll
Deployed with Screaming Skull Catapult + skulls of the foe

Skeleton Warriors x10 (bows)

Tomb Guard x 25
Icon of Rakaph
Champion

Chariots x3

Tomb Scorpion



List 2:

Tomb Prince
Blue Khepra
In a unit of 19 Tomb Guard with banner of undying legion and a champion

Liche Priest (heirophant)
Dispell Scroll
Cloak of Dunes

Liche Priest
Casket of Souls
Dispell Scroll

Skeleton Warriors x 20 (bows)

Skeleton Warriors x 10 (bows)

Skeleton Warriors x 10 (bows)

Ushabti x 3

Tomb Scorpion

Rattlehead
30-08-2007, 18:59
Go with list number 2 but loose some archers, and the ushabti. Instead, add some carrion and swarms. Also chariots are very important. The tomb guard, though superiour too most of his troops, are to expensive and too easy to avoid by fast elves. Drop them for chariots and put your tomb prince in that unit. Just make sure to keep the chariot unit out of missile range (if possible) unitl the scorpions and swarms pop up :D

Also, a jar to get that cucial chariot charge is recomended.
GL

Manifest
30-08-2007, 20:08
I set the second list up as a shooty list.
Against his toughness three troops, and with the 20 strong unit deployed on a hill I can theoretically get 60+ shots off a turn using incantations.
That's 20 hits against a T3 opponent per turn.

Using the icon of rakaph, and the prince's incantations, I should be able to move and reform all over the place, keeping up with even the fastest units.
At least, that was the plan.

warlord hack'a
30-08-2007, 20:14
try it out as your plan soudns feasible. What if he blocks your magic phase with his magic?

00mrfish00
30-08-2007, 20:16
swordmasters will be a really big threat when the new high elf book is released as they'll have 2 attacks and like all high elves will be striking first. Also, anyone else think Paul from the warhammer online podcasts needs to be slapped?

Manifest
30-08-2007, 21:43
try it out as your plan soudns feasible. What if he blocks your magic phase with his magic?

That's not such a big deal, as I believe that a magical stalemate works in my favor.
If he's running a magic heavy army, and can't get any spells off then he's essentially wasted those points, while my incantations don't really require as much investment and the characters are compulsory anyway.

I really think that casket's -1 to casting rolls will be brutal against him.

Bazzal
30-08-2007, 23:22
i like list number 2, not so keen on the ubshanti as you could get 3 carrion and 3 chariots for the cost of them, providing much needed war maching killing and wizard killing abaility, while having chariots able to rip spearmen to shreads

DeathlessDraich
31-08-2007, 10:25
Both lists if modified are playable:

List 1:
1) Reduce the number of Tomb Guard to 20 and give them Banner of Undying legion instead. If you place your Prince in this unit and it will hold against any HE unit and probably break them.
2) Do not deploy any liche with the skull catapult, he might destroy it with his Bolt throwers and magic unless you're out of LOS of them.
3) Use the extra pts to beef up the unit of archers and add a 3rd unit of archers.

List 2:
1) You will need a Hieratic Jar somewhere maybe by disbanding 1 unit of bowmen and increasing the size of another.
2) The Ushabti unit will be likely targets of bolt thrower shooting. Keep them safe until your Scorpion emerges.
3) The Casket will be a likely target of cavalry charges.

a) It is likely that the HE player will have a character with a Reaver bow in a chariot to reinforce his shooting.

b)If the HE army is cavalry heavy it could destroy your smaller units of bowmen very easily, so if you cannot avoid a cavalry charge then make sure your unit is positioned to deflect charges away from your other units.

c) Make sure that Intrigue at court is carried out before deployment and take note of the character with Pure of Heart - he's the one you want to slay. These rules are sometimes forgotten by HE players.

Good luck.

Manifest
01-09-2007, 06:50
Yeah, I might as well give the short version of the report.

I ended up taking the aggressive list.
I backed out on the shooting list at the last moment, so I took a prince in a unit of skellys, a unit of tomb guard with the eye of rakaph, the scorpion, 2 liche priests, 10 bowmen, a catapult, and a unit of chariots.

I won terrain setup, and deployment, so I managed to get my catapult up onto a hill.
I had a unit of tomb guard to the left forward side of the hill, a unit of skellys with a prince opposite right and a chariot unit up the left flank.
He had a bolt thrower up on a hill with 10 bowmen, a chariot opposite my skeletons, light cavalry to the left of the chariot, a unit of dragon princes, another bolt thrower, a unit of some horsemen with lances, and his mage opposite the chariots. I placed my scorpion marker between the hill and his other bolt thrower.
Turn one I take a partial chariot move, hoping to fall short of his huge charge range, I move the other units, and attempt to get a magic shot off on the catapult. He dispells the magic, I try again, he doesn't dispell and I cast it. I attempt to hit the line of horses with the catapult, and guessed about 4 inches short, and then scattered an inch past.
****.
This is going to set the course for the rest of the game.
Shooting phase, I try again.
This time I guess dead on, and then scatter 10 inches.
****.
I end the turn.
He declares he's going to charge my chariots with his dragon princes. (let's hope I guessed correctly!)
He passes his fear check with ease, as he's carrying a banner that gives him +1 to leadership, and charges. We measure it out, and he's exactly an inch short.
Woo hoo!
Counter charge!
He has no other charges, but all of a sudden those fast cav are at the flank of my skeletons, and that big unit of horsemen is headed right for my catapult. Whoooooooaaa ****.
He casts a magic missle that does an extra D6 S6 hits on undead at my chariots.
I pop a scroll.
He casts it on my chariots again.
I pop a scroll.
He casts an AOE attack at my tomb prince, that does a ******** of S6 hits on undead, it goes off on like a 12.
I drop all four of my dice, and dispell.
Boy those scrolls sure went fast.
My turn comes around, and I declare my counter charge.
He flees.
I make the compulsory move forward, and curse the fact that I'm right up in range of his bolt thrower, and if those horsemen turn, I'm ****ed in one turn.
Using the icon of rakaph, I wheel the tomb guard around, and move them forward, with luck I'll be close enough for a charge, which will tie those horsemen up and prevent them from charging anything, let alone my chariots.
Magic phase I cast movement on the tomb prince's unit, he doesn't dispell so I move half an inch.
I cast movement on the tomb guard, he tries to dispell, and fails.
I charge, and end up half an inch short.
****.
****.
****.
****.
I cast shooting on the catapult, and he dispells.
Shooting phase, I can't fire at the horses because they're out of LOS behind the TG with the bowmen, so I launch the catapult at it.
I guess dead on, and scatter 5 inches back.
With no other combat, I end the turn.
He declares his counter charge on my tomb guard.
Oh and those aren't spears. They're lances.
He rallies the dragon princes, moves his light horsemen right up my prince's ******* (flank), and has a chariot right in front of me.
He casts the magic missle of undead hating on my chariots an a 9, I dispell with three dice, and pull it off.
He casts the AOE thing on my prince's unit, and it goes off on a 13.
I only have 1 d6.
he rolls for wounds, and gets 3.
I make 2 saves.
Lose a wound, lose a rank.
Shooting phase.
He fires a multishot with his bolt thrower, and scores 6 hits.
I lose two chariots.
He files a single shot with his other bolt thrower onto my catapult, and misses.
The dice gods are fickle today.
His chariot shoots my skeleton warriors up a little bit, and I lose 1 more model.
He uses the bowmen to shoot my chariot, and picks the last one off.
Now we go into combat with the guard that got charged, and he doesn't challenge me. I know I'm ****ed if I take the charge, and I know I've got to do something, so I challenge him with my champion.
Boy do I ever wish I'd put my tomb prince in this unit.
At this point, he says he remembers a magic item he wanted to use, and asks if I'm cool with him doing it now.
I say sure, go for it.
The magic item was apparently an item that destroys magic items in my unit, so now my 45 point magic banner is worth nothing.
I suppose it's my own fault.
Now he tells me that his unit has a magic banner that makes every undead in contact with the unit have to take an automatic wound.
I roll my saves, and make them all!
**** YEAH!
So we do the challenge, I'm hoping I get lucky with a killing blow, or at least get a wound in on his dude.
I roll.
1.
1.
2.
...
It's like a blindfolded kid with a pinata.
He destroys my champion.
I swing back with the rest of the unit.
Every swing misses. Ones and twos all around. Better get the vegas dice out.
Combat res comes around, and I win by 3, but he's fearless, and immune to terror, so he doesn't auto break.
He takes his leadership test and passes with ease.

My turn again.
I roll for the scorpion, and it's a five wooooooo.
Roll for scatter, OH **** HIT WOOOOOOOOO!
I declare a charge on his wizard who is standing right in front of the scorpion **** yeeeeaaaaah.
He flees.
Rolls a 9, and gets out of charge range.
I move forward in my failed charge.
He's in charge range on the flank of my skeleton warriors, so I wheel to face him, because if he charges my flank with that chariot, I can get up on his chariot with the bowmen in front of the catapult. The 10 of them are enough to get a flank bonus, and hit him back.
I used the prince's incantation to try and get another move, pulling back an inch to fall short of his charge (there is a forest slightly between us, and it will slow him enough to force him to fail, because he's way out of my range.
I cast the incantation of summoning to pick up the skeletons his bowmen and chariot have been picking off, I get two, leaving me one shy of 25.
Into combat with the tomb guard.
His initiative is 9, mine is 3.
He swings, wounds two guys, but I make my saves.
I swing, three hit.
Roll to wound, one killing blow, and two wounds.
He makes his saves.
I lose combat res and take more wounds,
Woooo wounds woooo.
End of turn.
He charges my scorpion with his dragon princes.
He moves his horsemen away from my skeleton warriors, and around the trees to my heirophant who was hiding behind them.
Oh damnit. I didn't see that coming at all.
He casts his magic missile spell on an 11.
I dispell on a 12 with two dice!
He casts the aoe thing with three dice, and rolls a 14.
DAAAAMN.
He does an extra D6 wounds to my heirophant because he's undead, and he's dead-undead now.
I roll my crumble tests, and the tomb guard and scorpion have decent leadership so they're fine, the bowmen are close enough to the general to be okay, and the general's unit itself is fine.
Can't say the same for my catapult.
With a leadership of three, it took 7 wounds.
He takes the bow thing and shoots the liche priest that had just left the catapult unit to support the tomb guard.
Several wounds.
We start combat with the dragon princes, and they do one wound that the scorpion saves.
Rolled a poisoned attack and two hits, when rolling the hits I got 2 wounds and an auto kill.
He failed his two saves, and lost three models.
Noice!
Combat with the tomb guard doesnt go so well.
I take three wounds, and swing back with two. One of them scores a killing blow.
Combat res eats almost a whole rank.
Now I'm down to like 8 models in that unit, and I'm just trying to survive to prevent him from taking more victory points.
He picks off a rank of the skeleton warriors with his bowmen and another 2 with his chariot.
He's completely backed away from my skeleton warriors with his light cav now, so I'm basically sitting out there without any casting power, a slow as hell movement, and troops all around me.

My turn (turn 5)
I roll my crumble checks, and lose 2 skeletons in the bow unit.
I have no charges, but I move the skeleton warriors up after his light cav.
We go into combat with the scorpion, and with his high initiative he goes first, but fails to wound.
I swing back and get 2 poisoned attacks, and a hit.
I roll to wound and get 1 killing blow, and 2 wounds.
He rolls his saves, and fails.
HOORAY!
A scorpion is 75 points that always pays for itself.
We go into combat with the tomb guard, and he's got a higher initiative, that stupid banner, and many more attakcs.
He brings me down to one model.
Man, weak.
My skeleton warriors are continually picked away by his long bowmen and chariot.
End of my turn, bottom of five.
Now that my scorpion is no longer in combat, he shoots at it with one of his bolters, and causes 2 wounds.
Then he shoots with his bowmen, and kills my scorpion.
His horses finish off my tomb guard, and the rest of the game is just him cleaning up my skeleton warriors.
It was a pretty tough game, but I know now that these are the only high elf models he has, because he's been playing lizardmen for years, so in the future I know I've just got to build my list towards fending off his cavalry, and that I can bring a ton of magic and be fine.

I had chosen building boom for the events phase, so I built a free mine on my mountain tile I conquered last turn, and then I used the one point I got for the campaign on gold, earning a total of 240 gold.
That's 240 points I can go over my next game (or any game).
Anyway, it was a learning experience, and still a really good game.

Bazzal
01-09-2007, 19:43
nice report, bad luck on the game. since his bolt throwers and mage were away at the abck u may want to take some carrion, so even if he does flee, ur moving 20" unlikly he'll out run you. as for the list i still say 2 is better especialy now that u have etra points for the carrion and chariots along witht he Ushabti and pos just enough for another tomb scorpion should give you some hitting power against units with high saves.