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View Full Version : You know more than any honest Imperial Citizen ought to know...



Flightleader
31-08-2007, 15:05
Whilst I believe it is an intriguing and highly interesting part of this hobby... I sometimes wonder if knowing the full background of the 40k universe has left the hobby a little dry...

To be honest most of us know more about the horus heresy than any Loyal Imperial Citizen ought to know.. not to mention the depravities of the warp and the threat of chaos... in fact I doubt there are many high ranking officials in the imperium of man with such knowledge...

so why is there so much work and worry about the "40k past" and not so much interest in "40k present"?

Why can't we leave the horus heresy as some far off event that know one realy knows about? Chaos as elusive and non sensical yet with a driving hatred of humanity and the imperium...

I like the idea that certain aspects of the 40k universe have more or less knowledge of past events which allow someone to piece something together.. but to have the backstory blatently told to us... that's just unfair.

the story is now predicatble.. and the imperium of man is now a much more solid object..

In a game about war.. alot of 40k stories deal alot with the inner deplomacy and struggles of the imperium rather than setting the stage for our battles...

so tell me... why must we know? And how does knowing affect your out look on your games? Is this all just an exercise of collective longing for the "40k past" because it seems to have been a much more interesting time frame to fight battles in?

I personally like the mystery of the 40k universe... a battle does not need to be justified beyond.. group X hate group Y... why they hate each other is already set up in the 40k universe.. why they are fighting this particular battle then becomes important...

For a universe who knows only war... it seems a lot of imperial and xenos planets see little or no action for many centuries at a time...whilst other see more fighting beacuse they are conveniently placed in a place where most of the major 40k factions can get at them... fun:rolleyes:

so what do you think?:angel:

Colonel Puti
31-08-2007, 19:38
As far as I know there really is no "presens" in the fluff of 40k. The aftermatch of 13th black crusade is still going on in the Cadian system, and orks aren't defeated on Armageddon. The newest fluff released does not always tell about the leatest events in the universe. Everything is some what happening at the same time in the fluff that we read, but at different years in 40k universe (I hope that somebody understood that :).

"Why can't we leave the horus heresy as some far off event that know one realy knows about?"

Because it was a horrible event that none should ever forget, so nothing like it can happen again. It is not some trivial thing in the past. It is the reason why Marines are split into chapters, why Inquisition was founded, why Emperor is "now" regarded as god. Everything in the 40k revols around "the past told in the fluff" because the game represents those events or the outcome of those events. Many time we are not playing the "present" but the legendarical battles of the history of man kind. Like once so popular Armageddon Steel Legions, their realy aren't the "present" of the 40k universe, and definately aren't that now.

So to sum up it all, we are just playing again the glorius (or not so glorius) moments of the race that our models represent when we are playing the board game. The fluff is there to tell us what these major events in the history were.

dr.oetk3r
31-08-2007, 19:43
Because if we know about the Horus Heresy it allows the whole background to be opened up in far more interesting ways.

I'll admit that Chaos would be even more intrueging if next to nothing was known about the HH. But since we know why the Imperium is hated a whole new plot dimension opens up.

Khaine's Messenger
31-08-2007, 20:10
I sometimes wonder if knowing the full background of the 40k universe has left the hobby a little dry...

I don't think so. One of the most interesting facets of the background is that you can re-interpret it to suit your needs most of the time, and so about the time it starts getting stale, all you need to do is pick up a random sourcebook, and there's bound to be something that contradicts something you "know." Whether GW does that on purpose or not, I don't know, but I do know that their "canon policy" is very fast and loose, riddled with perspectives that are never guaranteed to be anything more than lies. It's mostly there to support the wargame, too, so you can never really be sure.


so why is there so much work and worry about the "40k past" and not so much interest in "40k present"?

One may as well ask why Milton dictated Paradise Lost. But no, I think it would have mostly to do with the "golden age" man left behind. 40k is rarely appreciated for what it is--the grimness factor, etc., really rubs some people raw and destroys suspension of disbelief.


but to have the backstory blatently told to us... that's just unfair.

Most of 40k background is written with the same sort of sadistic glee that Asdrubael Vect invested into his telling of "The Torturer's Tale." Or at least, it feel like that to me, sometimes.


In a game about war.. alot of 40k stories deal alot with the inner deplomacy and struggles of the imperium rather than setting the stage for our battles...

Which "stories" are you talking about? The published BL fiction, or the side-stories in the codices?


And how does knowing affect your out look on your games?

I generally turn my "fluff nazi" hat off whilst playing the game unless someone trots out one of the cute one-liners that proves his army is superior. Then it just becomes tit-for-tat one-liners about how our armies are better than the other. So...nothing big, really.

CELS
01-09-2007, 12:51
Whilst I believe it is an intriguing and highly interesting part of this hobby... I sometimes wonder if knowing the full background of the 40k universe has left the hobby a little dry...
It seems to me that this is not the problem. The problem is that GW isn't coming up with as much new stuff as they used to, with the important exception of the Horus Heresy. The Horus Heresy revitalised some of the 40k background discussion, because it revealed new things and brought up new things to discuss, but GW doesn't really introduce a lot of new ideas for the Dark Millennium anymore. And when they do, it's usually a C'tan / Chaos conspiracy.

There is an endless amount of stuff that remains unexplored in the 40k universe, but because of the way GW operates, we're left to discuss what happened with the missing primarchs.


To be honest most of us know more about the horus heresy than any Loyal Imperial Citizen ought to know.. not to mention the depravities of the warp and the threat of chaos... in fact I doubt there are many high ranking officials in the imperium of man with such knowledge...
That's very honest of you :) Quite a few Inquisitors should know a bit about the Horus Heresy, however, and since they frequently appear in the wargame and novels, it's useful to know what they know, for one thing.


so why is there so much work and worry about the "40k past" and not so much interest in "40k present"?
To be fair, GW does pour almost all its efforts into the 40k present, but because they focus on the same stuff over and over again (Space Marines, anyone?) it doesn't really get us anywhere.
If they wanted to, they could have started a campaign with Eldar versus Dark Eldar, taking the opportunity to shed some light on these woefully underdeveloped races, but nah...


Why can't we leave the horus heresy as some far off event that know one realy knows about? Chaos as elusive and non sensical yet with a driving hatred of humanity and the imperium...
Then again, without any solid information on Chaos, novels like the Eisenhorn trilogy wouldn't exist, because the author wouldn't know enough about Chaos to write it. And then each novel would have its own interpretation of what Chaos really is, and you'd end up with a universe that is even less internally consistent than it is at present.


In a game about war.. alot of 40k stories deal alot with the inner deplomacy and struggles of the imperium rather than setting the stage for our battles...
I have to disagree with this, and even if it were true... it's a bad thing that they focus less on battles and more on why there are battles? Since when?

Iracundus
02-09-2007, 01:27
One has to remember that the average Imperial citizen knows next to nothing compared to what players know. Even the average Inquisitor doesn't know most of what players know. If the background was purely from that average level of knowledge, nearly everything would either be Imperial propaganda, or unknown. It makes for very boring and uninteresting xenos and Chaos background.

Inquisitor Feldenhaus
02-09-2007, 01:36
The easies terms I can put this in is this, how could we be limited to that knowledge, they would have to get rid of all non-imperial factions, and... just face it, it wouldn't work. And the Horus heresy is like WW2, you never want it to happen again, and those who fail history are doomed to repeat it.

Chilltouch
02-09-2007, 01:52
Expanding on the 40K universe is great.

Expanding the history of the 40K universe is bad. It's meant to be a legendary event which changed the galaxy forever. It isn't that fun when it has been changed from that legendary event to something much more in depth, to such a stage that we discover: The Primarchs are nothing but spoiled brats.

The Horus Heresy artbooks were great. A good, informative read. But going into the minds of such important figures, I just can't stand. It's just done so badly.