PDA

View Full Version : Ogres or Minotaurs?



maskedman504
31-08-2007, 16:47
I am building up a Tzeentch force and want to add in some big uglies. I am pretty against trolls, so my options seem to be ogres or Minotaurs (dragon ogres seem too expensive pts wise). The ogres are attractive because I can give them an armor save, but the mino's have +1WS +1A +2IA. Either unit would be fielded with 2 HtH weapons.

Finnigan2004
31-08-2007, 16:57
Just to muddy the waters a bit, have you considered ironguts, bulls, maneaters, or leadbelchers as DOW? They take a rare slot, but I prefer them to the ogres in the chaos book if I have to slots available.

maskedman504
31-08-2007, 17:00
Just to muddy the waters a bit, have you considered ironguts, bulls, maneaters, or leadbelchers as DOW? They take a rare slot, but I prefer them to the ogres in the chaos book if I have to slots available.

What advantages to those units present over the entries in Beasts of Chaos?

sephiroth87
31-08-2007, 17:11
The Ogre Kingdoms ogres present a slightly different choice. They take up rare slots, as opposed to the specials that minos or chaos ogres take up.

But they get the Bull Charge, which means they get some impact hits on the charge. Their armor isn't as good as a chaos ogre's though.

Leadbelchers shoot scatterguns, too, which is a nice addition to a chaos army.

As far as minotaurs or chaos ogres go, I've run both and found them to be about even. Minos have a better weapon skill and pursue faster, but they're also more expensive and have less armor. Both run better with great weapons, so I'd run them whatever I picked. You'll find that you get more kills and break more stuff on the charge with the great weapons.

I happen to like the ogres because they're cheaper, but others will disagree.

Finnigan2004
31-08-2007, 17:16
Well, comparing them to chaos ogres (since they're all ogres), bulls are close to the same, but lose armour and gain a bull charge, a free ogre club(-1 to save), and an option for additional weapons or iron fists (basically can be used as an additional weapon or shield with hand weapon at your option). Ogre Ironguts cost more, but have two handed weapons, heavy armour, still have the bull charge, one better leadership, and can buy a magic banner (they are my choice). Leadbelchers are like the first two, but also carry a small cannon that is good against fast cavalry and skirmishers. Maneaters are really expensive, but can take armour, are stubborn, and immune to psychology.

It is a tough call, but ironguts are my favorite. The big difference between these choices and beasts of chaos ogres is that these will cost you a rare slot. On a side note, personally I really prefer two handed weapons on ogres and minotaurs, but there are advantages to both.

edit: darn you Sephiroth-- you already posted it all while I was typing.

Punk_in_Drublic
31-08-2007, 17:50
I'd go for 3 dragon ogres with light armour and great weapons. rock hard unit.

But - are you going to go exclusively with MoT or are you willing to mix up the marks?

Later,

-Punk

maskedman504
31-08-2007, 17:55
I'd go for 3 dragon ogres with light armour and great weapons. rock hard unit.

But - are you going to go exclusively with MoT or are you willing to mix up the marks?

Later,

-Punk

I am doing a Tzeentch only army lead by a exalted daemon/daemon prince with the MoT and Master of Mortals.

So great weapons are the way to go- the leadbelchers sound interesting adding some shooting the the army- don't they get multiple shots?

Lorcryst
31-08-2007, 17:56
Don't forget that the Minotaurs are the only ones in all those options that can have a Mark ...

In a Tzeentch force, if you can spare the 20 points for a Mark of Tzeentch on the Minotaurs, that's another Power Dice to your pool, always handy in my humble opinion.

I really like the Leadbelchers in a Chaos army, they add that bit of ranged firepower that Chaos don't have, but I guess that's a personnal choice.

sephiroth87
31-08-2007, 18:23
The leadbelchers get an artillery dice to shoot, but have to roll to hit.

W0lf
31-08-2007, 20:36
minotaurs.

only unit that can be marked thats been mentioned.

Its a ******* Tzeentch army.. every single power dice MUST be scrounged.

Urgat
01-09-2007, 09:59
So great weapons are the way to go- the leadbelchers sound interesting adding some shooting the the army- don't they get multiple shots?

Yeah, you roll the...her... one of the dies with "hit", 2, 4, 6, 8 and 10 per ogre, and it tells you the number of shots ("hit" is a miscast -yup, that's a maximum of ten S4 shots with an additional -1 save modifier per ogre, but range 12"). It can be devastating against anything provided you get enough shots.
That said, they have two drawbacks:
1) to reload, you need to waste a turn doing nothing but reload (no movement, nothing)
2) they cost 55 points (2 minimum per unit)

I've used them 3 times:
First battle, it was a unit of 3, they shot, 3 misfires. They never got to shoot again in the battle, but they all survived the 3 misfires and crushed some chaos unit in melee.
Second battle, was a unit of 3 again, I got 10 shots or something, unfortunately, I misjudged distances and they happened to be out of range by 1". Well, never mind that, they got a charge two turns later and won their points back in h2h again.
Third battle (2 days ago), was a unit of 4. They moved well within range of a 5 strong marauder cavalry unit (I made damn sure they were lol - you can move and shoot at long range w/o malus btw), got 20 shots, killed 4 (I expected them to be wiped out, but no matter, the one left fled with no hope of rallying). They managed to recharge their weapons, but didn't get to shoot because a charriot pursuing my ironguts stopped right in front of them, so they charged it, made it flee and overtook it. They ended up being ganged up by the chaos champion, a chaos spawn and, well, by that time, they were the only ones left on the table with the butcher and two bulls, so I gave up.
Anyway: leadbelchers are like fanatics: your opponent sees them work nicely once, and they'll fear them ever after, but they never repaid their cost with shooting for me, they always did through melee (las any good ogre should).
That said, they should be perfect for holding and firing at a charging unit, I still want to try that but never get the opportunity.

Now "I" would take minotaurs in your army, but it's only because I love the minis.

fearchanges
01-09-2007, 10:10
I prefer Mino's; 1 extra powerdice, better stats and as Beastman player you'll get used to play with Low armoursave units.
Though I prefer to give them Great weapons.

catbarf
02-09-2007, 00:22
Keep in mind that Ogre Bulls, Ironguts, and Leadbelchers are special when taken as DoW. Only Maneaters are Rare.

Makaber
02-09-2007, 01:55
Comparing ogres to minotaurs is a bit futile, because they fill different roles. In short, the minotaurs are hard hitting, the ogres have an armour save and are thus more defensive. Trolls combine both a solid offense with a good defense, but at the price of reliability.

If you want a hard-hitter with great weapons, the minotaurs is your weapon of choice. The WS4 is essensial.

theunwantedbeing
02-09-2007, 02:16
Minotaurs for the extra persue distance and the higher weaponskill and leadership,plus they can get marks.

catbarf...not quite right,they are a special choice when taken in a dogs of war army.

Personally I'de go with minotaurs.

Great weapons are of course the only weapons worth giving to such a unit..not point missing out on those lovely st6 attacks.

Holy Crap! Manticores!
02-09-2007, 11:47
Minos with add HW OR GW's. Don't worry about the armor option for Minos unless playing Nurgle army, it won't help much. Give them the mark of Tzeentch and field another PD.

catbarf
02-09-2007, 21:28
catbarf...not quite right,they are a special choice when taken in a dogs of war army.

Oops, my mistake. You're right.

Lord Tzeentch
03-09-2007, 00:09
I would go with Minotaurs as they can have a mark and are amazing with GWs. I wouldnt worry about the armour save much as they move pritty quick. Also they would fit in better with the army but hey i just dont like using DoW. But they all have something over each other i mean Leadbelchers add some fire power to your army where as Ogres have better saves but its really down to how you play with your army.

Shakyor
03-09-2007, 11:04
I would advice you playing Minotoures as well because of two reasons.

1.With Great Weapons they can deal mayor damage on every kind of opponet, even heavy cav.

2.Thez are more resitent towards psychologie as they can take the mark of chaos undivieded.

Also the pursuing of 3d6 is a nice gimmick.