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Astner
01-09-2007, 23:33
The Emperor, according to the legend, will be reborn in times of need--this is as in WFB, where Sigmar would return to the Empire in need, SoC, and he did so in a weaker avatar, Valten.
If the Starchild is reborn, will it be weaker, equal or stronger than the Emperor before his fall?

Ktotwf
01-09-2007, 23:49
Umm...obviously it will be stronger.

The next person who starts an Emperor thread will be summarily executed.

Chilltouch
02-09-2007, 00:17
If the Starchild is reborn, the Imperium wins.

Ktotwf
02-09-2007, 00:38
And if the Starchild isn't reborn, Games Workshop wins.

Chilltouch
02-09-2007, 00:41
Touchè, comrade Ktotwtf.

DantesInferno
02-09-2007, 00:45
It would be worth reading the Thorian Sourcebook (http://www.specialist-games.com/assets/ThorianSource.pdf) (note: it's a 1.8MB PDF if anyone's using dial-up) to get a sense of the various theories about what might happen if the Emperor were to be somehow reborn or incarnated in an avatar.

Kage2020
02-09-2007, 03:41
Heh, at least someone is aware about dial up users, so thanks DantesInferno.

With that said, I voted "Equal." Why? If you believe the specific statement of the original 'fluff' it merely talks about a new "New Man." At this point I'm not going to make judgements based upon the 'fluff' that buys into the idea of Emperor-as-God.

Yes, that's a value judgement. A preference. An interpretation.

With that said, I do think that the new "New Man" will be different. I'm afraid that discussions on 'ole Portent with MvS and some of the old hats on that forum enamoured me of the approach that the birth of the Star Child will be two fold for, well, somewhat horrendously obvious reasons for fans of the 'fluff'... ;)

Kage

Astner
02-09-2007, 17:45
Isn't that an imperial writ?

Tanith Ghost
02-09-2007, 17:54
Without a doubt stronger. And if it's the old husk that suddenly stands up, revitalized and briming with life and power, that avoids any civil war. And if that happens, then everything from necrons to tyranids will be in for a world of hurt and the Imperium Stands up from being a dead beast to a well armed and motivated juggernaut.

Ktotwf
02-09-2007, 17:56
I've always believed that the Starchild's birth would be a transcendent event for the Imperium. It wouldn't be victory because the Emperor would be reborn and start kicking ass, it would be victory because the power of the Starchild in the warp would eliminate humanity's spiritual enemies.

This may or may not correspond with humanity's ascension to universal psykerhood.

Astner
02-09-2007, 18:21
This from, The Lost and the Damned should be added.

As the spirit of the Emperor drifted through the warp it gradually dissolved into the flow of energy, returning to the cosmic force of the nature of the warp in its uncorrupted form. Only a tiny core of the Emperor's humanity remained whole, like a small child bobbing upon the tide of a colossal storm in a tiny reed boat.

Kage2020
02-09-2007, 21:35
Aye, but the original material really doesn't stand up to the faith that the new New Man is going to be powerful and end all Imperial woes...

Kage

Iracundus
03-09-2007, 10:45
The old background says the Starchild will finally awaken when the humans in the galaxy cry out for a new savior, as the Imperium falters and starts crumbling when the Emperor as corpse in Throne finally expires (ie the failure of the "old savior" figure). It doesn't say whether this yearning for a new savior will be enough to empower the Starchild to be all powerful as Imperial fanboys might believe. It merely says this collective yearning will be the spark that awakens the Starchild. Given the dire state for this to happen, I'd say the Starchild would have a lot of work to do.

Rabid Bunny 666
03-09-2007, 10:52
Erm, shouldn't it be Valten; Fantasy's version of Starchild?

Astner
03-09-2007, 14:37
Erm, shouldn't it be Valten; Fantasy's version of Starchild?
Well, we know of Valten, but not the Starchild--at least not in detail.

Kahadras
03-09-2007, 17:56
I always was under the impression that the Emperor and the Star child were two totaly different beings. The Emperor was merely a mortal blessed with immence psychic powers and the ability to be reborn into the next generation when he died (kinda like the Eldar). He had the Golden throne constructed due to the fact that he needed a large portion of his psychic might to stop the Chaos Gods from detecting the Star child

The Star child was the Emperors answer to the Chaos gods. A being in the Warp who could touch the minds of all humans and turn them to the destruction of Chaos gods.

I would assume the 'win' ending for humanity is the Star child becomes poweful enough for the Emperor to no longer need to protect it. He dies and is reincarnated. The Starchild then becomes a god and knocks Chaos for six


Kahadras

Kage2020
03-09-2007, 22:25
The Star child was the Emperors answer to the Chaos gods. A being in the Warp who could touch the minds of all humans and turn them to the destruction of Chaos gods.
Weelll... that would be one approach, though the 'fluff' on it would not seem to support such a stance. While I hate quoting chunks of 'fluff', this might be useful:


As the Emperor lay dying his psychic energy ebbed from his body. The immortality which had sustained him for so many centuries was no more, and the weight of age descended upon him...

Released from his body, the Emperor's psychic power, his soul, was cast adrift upon the tides of the warp, to be carried on the random undercurrents and eddies of the Sea of Souls until such time as it was ready to be reborn...

...while some of his cells still lived they provided link through which his spirit could communicate with the material universe...

...Over the millennia the link between his soul and body has become increasingly tenuous. Worse of all, the Powers of Chaos have begun to infiltrate his mind, sowing the seeds of doubt, dissolution and fear...

Meanwhile the soul of the Emperor was merely a potential, a child awaiting birth, the Star Child...
Just more food for thought. Even this 'fluff' is debatable.

Kage

LexxBomb
04-09-2007, 08:15
I thought that the new man would be more akin to an eldar due to the ways of evolution and the path to assension (the good way)

Lord Fatwa
04-09-2007, 10:45
The old background says the Starchild will finally awaken when the humans in the galaxy cry out for a new savior, as the Imperium falters and starts crumbling when the Emperor as corpse in Throne finally expires (ie the failure of the "old savior" figure). It doesn't say whether this yearning for a new savior will be enough to empower the Starchild to be all powerful as Imperial fanboys might believe. It merely says this collective yearning will be the spark that awakens the Starchild. Given the dire state for this to happen, I'd say the Starchild would have a lot of work to do.

Could this be thought of as a kind of Anti-Fall for humanity? Is that the basic idea of such an event?

Kahadras
04-09-2007, 10:59
Weelll... that would be one approach, though the 'fluff' on it would not seem to support such a stance. While I hate quoting chunks of 'fluff', this might be useful:


I'm pretty sure GW have messed around with the fluff since Lost and the Damned. It kinda made sence to me as why would the Emperor instruct Dorn to build the Golden throne. The Emperor already knew he would be reincarnated so why would he decided to remain a cripple chained to a life support machine for the next 10,000 years?

Kahadras

Kage2020
04-09-2007, 12:14
Well, the whole point of the creation of the Emperor was that it was thought he wouldn't reincarnate. Hence the whole Shaman gig in the first place. Thus the construction of the Throne so that he could continue with his function.

Kage