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EvC
03-09-2007, 14:48
Sorry about the vague subject, here's a diagram that hopefully makes the question clearer...

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/7990/chargub2.jpg

So here we have a mounted hero peeking out the forest- and a chariot nearby that wants to charge the hero in his flank. More than half the hero’s base is in the forest, in case that matters. Can the chariot charge into the hero without entering the forest?

(Side-question: would you consider it “gamey” to charge a chariot or single flyer across and charge the character without entering the forest?)

Negativemoney
03-09-2007, 14:53
If it is a single model then you only need to touch a part of his base not the entire base. This means that you only need to clip his base to hit him. However if it was a unit then you must try to maximize models and this would cause the chariot to go into the woods.

Yellow Commissar
03-09-2007, 17:30
I think the chariot can charge the character in the flank and not enter the forest, and, no, I don't think it is a "gamey" tactic. That being said, I realize that many others would consider this to be "gamey", and would discuss such a situation first, were I the charger here. Sometimes it is easier to agree as both players will have more fun. I could see this one being decided by a die roll just so everybody is happy. I still think it is a perfectly legitimate charge, though.

ZomboCom
03-09-2007, 18:21
The rules are very clear here. You have to maximize the number of models, nothing more. It's absolutely fine to clip a little in this case.

DeathlessDraich
03-09-2007, 19:04
Agreed.

I had a similar scenario - EITW for a chariot against Ogres' flank who were 3" outside a wood. The charge movement did not bring the chariot into contact with the woods. However, the final alignment forced the rear of my chariot into the woods - D6 S6 hits was agreed, as I always avoid clipping, even though the chariot could just about clip corner to corner.

EvC
03-09-2007, 23:03
Hmm well in this case with two opponents telling me I had to "maximise" (even though I argued a clip was already maximised) and so go in the woods. I think the dice gods realised I was right, and my chariot wounded and broke the Lord (Whom then rallied and I charged and broke a second time), taking 5 wounds in the process, but surviving :D

highelfmage
04-09-2007, 02:49
u do maximize models but the chariot would never have to enter difficult terrain do to maximize models.

DeathlessDraich
04-09-2007, 09:26
Hmm well in this case with two opponents telling me I had to "maximise" (even though I argued a clip was already maximised) and so go in the woods. I think the dice gods realised I was right, and my chariot wounded and broke the Lord (Whom then rallied and I charged and broke a second time), taking 5 wounds in the process, but surviving :D

Obviously they confused 'maximise models' in the rules with their own idea of 'maximise frontage'.

Tutore
04-09-2007, 12:04
I think that a raw point of view would mean entering the forest. However, a sporty opponent should agree no chariot would do this, knowing to suffer high damage.

Wings of Doom
04-09-2007, 16:21
An intelligent opponent would surely flee, so the chariot goes failed charge into the woods... however, that is not the question at hand.

cannot the chariot just charge the character in the front?

Charge so it's something like this (chariot bottom left corner to character corner as the line of charge using EvC's diagram):


|_|
/

Without the gap, and turn clockwise to straighten the frontage? Then there's no risk of going into the woods (unless youfail to restrain pursuit). Really, with impact hits and outnumber, you shouldn't be losing combat.

EvC
04-09-2007, 17:33
In the case here, the Lord would have fled 3D6, very likely going off the board. But no, the Chariot can't charge to the front as it's in the Lord's flank to begin with, thus must charge in that arc.

mcweedy
04-09-2007, 17:46
I agree with the majority. You have to maxizime Models in combat. In this case there are only two models. So as long as their in combat and your in the flank (in this scenario), you can clip away.

Llew
04-09-2007, 20:08
I'd say, if anything, someone trying to protect his Lord from a chariot by trying to be half-in and half-out of the woods is cheezy.

Models are maximized without the chariot entering the woods. Fair charge.

Braad
05-09-2007, 07:07
Logic would say "no, don't hit the forest". And since I don't know of any rules stating that you must go into it (indeed, you don't have to maximize base contact, only the amount of models in base contact) I would not force the chariot to take any hits.

If you had a car, would you smash it up a wall if you also had the choice to just drive it through the gate?

Okey.... I admit, usually I'm the one fielding the chariots.
But then again, if I was the one halfway in the forest I would just have been smart enough to hide completely in the trees.

warlord hack'a
05-09-2007, 08:57
there is no rules unclarity here, like said a number of times you maximize the number of models fighting, that is the only rule that will allow you to reposition models in btb. In this case even clipping by a smidgeon will maximize the number of models fighting so any player demanding that you maximize base contact and therefor the chariot should go into the woods is making up his or her own rules.

In fact, it's even more logic for a chariot to clip an opponent as that was the way chariots fought: racing alongside enemy soldiers and have their scythes cut them down, they did not like to ram straight into someone..

T10
05-09-2007, 09:20
Since you need only maximise models, not contact area, the chariot is


An intelligent opponent would surely flee, so the chariot goes failed charge into the woods... however, that is not the question at hand.


I seem to recall that the charger is required to move towards the fleeing unit as fast as possible, which is not necessarilly the most direct route. If this is the case then the chariot would surely manage to get closer to the fleeing unit by moving around the forest rather than through it. This is because the forest, in addition to causing damage to the chariot, reduces it's move.

-T10

Tutore
05-09-2007, 12:38
I fear that maximizing models fighting means that you should move the chariot in order to let both mounts fight, thus entering the forest.

Atrahasis
05-09-2007, 12:39
Both mounts fight anyway - even corner to corner contact allows that.

Tutore
05-09-2007, 13:15
Both mounts fight anyway - even corner to corner contact allows that.

Sorry then, I was wrong.

Braad
06-09-2007, 11:23
A chariot has one big base, not 2 or more smaller ones.