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mistformsquirrel
04-09-2007, 00:44
So... I was wondering something; after re-doing my list for the umpteenth time, I had decided to swap my Chaos Sorcerer for the much cheaper Dogs of War Wizard. Since I just didn't imagine needing WS5 or all that melee killiness on a mage; as well as having access to a lot more lores.

I didn't see anything in the Dogs of War rules that prevented this, I just assumed it'd take both a Rare and a Hero slot...

But then I posted the list and someone mentioned they didn't think you could do that >.<;

Sooooo... I figure its best to just ask.

CAN I take a Dogs of War character in a normal army? Or have I missed something important. As with most of my zany ideas, I have no problem fixing it really; I'll have to crunch some points around to fit everything back, but I can make it work if necessary. Still, I think the Dogs of War character suits the mental image I have of this character a twinge better, with the weaker fighting but greater access to magic types. Plus there's the points savings, which helps a bit too.

(Sorry about the dumb question >.<)

RavenBloodwind
04-09-2007, 01:35
You cannot take generic DoW characters (paymaster, wizard, etc) in a non-DoW army.

The only 'DoW' wizard you can take would be a Truthsayer or Dark Emissary, neither of which uses the regular lores. I think that chaos can take the DE but not the Truthsayer.

explorator
04-09-2007, 02:12
The only 'DoW' wizard you can take would be a Truthsayer or Dark Emissary, neither of which uses the regular lores. I think that chaos can take the DE but not the Truthsayer.

This is true. The Dark Emissary would not be a bad addition to a chaos force, although he does use a hero+rare slot.

mistformsquirrel
04-09-2007, 02:58
Ahh >.< Foodge.

Was afraid of that. I had looked at the Dark Emissary for sure, definitely an interesting addition. The points cost though was too much given that I already spent ALOT on characters <'x'>;

Thanks <~_~>b

*back to reshuffling points*

Lord Zarkov
04-09-2007, 12:11
You cannot take generic DoW characters (paymaster, wizard, etc) in a non-DoW army.

The only 'DoW' wizard you can take would be a Truthsayer or Dark Emissary, neither of which uses the regular lores. I think that chaos can take the DE but not the Truthsayer.

You are perfectly capable of doing so, the generic characters are still units and any unit may be taken as a rare choice in the listed armies (as per the DOW Rules).

However there is still the argument of whether they take up a character slot as well, and that is fairly up to interpratation.

Festus
04-09-2007, 12:27
Hi

Honestly, I would not be so sure about that:

I'd like to, too, but the one problem is the problem of slots, the other problem is, that the DOW rules refers to its sections as:

Characters
Core Units
Special Units
Rare Units.

See here: http://uk.games-workshop.com/dogsofwar/lists/assets/regimentsofrenownPart1.pdf
One can make a point that characters cannot be taken as DOW units by other armies.

Festus

Yellow Commissar
04-09-2007, 23:12
Hmmm. Interesting question.
My initial reaction was that, no, you should not be allowed to take Dogs of War characters in your chaos force, but after reviewing the actual rules, I think you can.
I certainly wouldn't complain if you fielded one against me.
I would, however, show up with Asarnil the Dragonlord and my own Lord on Dragon the next time we played. ;)

Festus
05-09-2007, 05:24
This is no problem, as Asarnil has his rules to be hired: He is a Rare and a Hero. And furthermore he is a RoR, and as such has very explicit rules governing his hiring.

So go forth, and do battle with two Dragons, soldier :D

Festus

Braad
05-09-2007, 06:58
I'd like to add to this, indeed, Festus is right (is he ever not?)... On the GW website you can find, besides the rules for DOW and ROR also reference sheets which show which army can hire which units and which slots they use.

Generic DOW characters do not show up on these charts, which is on purpose if you ask me, considering that they say units may be chosen. Normal DOW units, ROR and Special characters like Asarnil are listed.

ZomboCom
05-09-2007, 12:07
Mark me as another one in the "generic DOW characters can't be taken as DOW" column.

Lord Zarkov
05-09-2007, 17:59
I'd like to add to this, indeed, Festus is right (is he ever not?)... On the GW website you can find, besides the rules for DOW and ROR also reference sheets which show which army can hire which units and which slots they use.

Generic DOW characters do not show up on these charts, which is on purpose if you ask me, considering that they say units may be chosen. Normal DOW units, ROR and Special characters like Asarnil are listed.
where are these charts?
& Asarnil's an ROR not an SC, the DOW SCs cannot be taken as stated in their rules.

IMO as characters are units as defined by the BRB (as they were in 6th Ed as well), they may be taken by the wording in the DOW list.
However as highlited above there is the question of whether the character takes up as character slot as well; especialy if it is a Lord.

Little Aaad
05-09-2007, 18:49
you should be able to IMHO because why should you not be able to?

Atrahasis
05-09-2007, 20:45
However as highlited above there is the question of whether the character takes up as character slot as well; especialy if it is a Lord.Halflings don't take up a special and a rare, pikemen don't count as core and rare, so why would characters be different?

EvC
05-09-2007, 21:35
I want me an army with 3 level 4 Dogs of War Wizards (On top of my own army's Wizard Lord choice). 18 power dice anyone?

mistformsquirrel
05-09-2007, 22:15
I think Characters are different though.

For one, it *specifically* mentions that "Note: Characters taken are the maximum total you may take." Or something to that effect - I'd have to look at the explicit wording.

That's also part of why I thought it was possible in the first place >.> They'd just take a Hero and Rare slot.

I admit, I have no way of backing it up, but the way my brain interpreted things was;

You may take a Dogs of War character provided that:

A) You have both a Rare and Hero slot available (it uses both)

B) You pay the points (obviously)

C) You only buy magic items from the Dogs of War list (ie: Common list)

D) The Dogs of War character may not be the Army General (there's nothing to back it up as to *why* - but it just feels right. Yah I know, that's not how rules work; it was just the way I thought it was for some reason >.>)

Thats just what my newbie interpretation was leading me to believe.

Festus
06-09-2007, 06:47
Hi

If you do it that way, I do not think, that any oponent would object (provided you pay a Lord slot for a DoW Lord as well)...

... but be prepared to not be allowed to do so in a tournament setting.

The rules question is still wide open, though, and as said: I would disallow it in a tourney -

Festus

505
07-09-2007, 03:19
why not use a bray shaman?
sure its a bit more (5-10ish oints if memory serves right)then a DOW wizard but its easier then to much shuffeling

mistformsquirrel
07-09-2007, 16:30
why not use a bray shaman?
sure its a bit more (5-10ish oints if memory serves right)then a DOW wizard but its easier then to much shuffeling

Well, there's 2 reasons.

Prime reason is simply that the character themselves is a human, and is supposed to be a masterful wizard (hence the ability to cast spells from any lore, though admittedly only a single lore per game).

The second is that Beasts can't join Mortal units and vice-versa; so even if I were able to tell myself that I wasn't being cheeky by modeling them up human >.>;; there's still the whole "Nowhere to hide them" bit.

But its OK now, I went back to a Sorcerer and shuffled some points; things are OK hehe

Appreciate the comments btw everyone >.> It'd be nice to see some sort of official ruling on it, as apparently I've stumbled into something a bit... odd. <o.@>; I guess though most people don't have any reason to even want to take one eh?

505
07-09-2007, 18:13
were does it say you can't have a bray shamen?

page 50 of BOC book. you cna have the bray shaman he just can't join the mortal units

Belerophon709
09-09-2007, 20:49
were does it say you can't have a bray shamen?

page 50 of BOC book. you cna have the bray shaman he just can't join the mortal units

Read what he's saying please. He doesn't say he can't have a shaman, just that he has nowhere to hide the bugger...

505
10-09-2007, 06:32
Didn't read it correct. that is my bad...sorry
in that case (and Im saying this even though he alreayd resuffled) If I converted him like a twisted man (beast shamen that is) I would put him in a beastgor unit converted the same way so it don't break up the look (imagine chaos warriors with beast heads)

ZomboCom
11-09-2007, 22:12
Well, he has nowhere to hide the DOW wizard either. Even if you can take one (you can't), he certainly can't join a non DOW unit.

JonnyTHM
11-09-2007, 22:35
"Also, only Dogs of War units are eligible for inclusion in other armies. This means you cannot take a character such as a Mercenary Lord or Hireling Wizard and include him in your army as a single Rare choice. There are a few exceptions as to what units can be taken in which armies – you can find out about those exceptions below."

http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/gaming/dogsofwar/3.htm

mistformsquirrel
14-09-2007, 01:25
"Also, only Dogs of War units are eligible for inclusion in other armies. This means you cannot take a character such as a Mercenary Lord or Hireling Wizard and include him in your army as a single Rare choice. There are a few exceptions as to what units can be taken in which armies you can find out about those exceptions below."

http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/gaming/dogsofwar/3.htm

Aha! <@.@> Thank you.

I'm not exactly sure how I missed that... I suppose I generally speaking look right at the rules without looking at the (usually just flavorful) text right there...

But I guess that'll teach me to make that mistake <@.@> thanks!

Festus
14-09-2007, 05:17
Hi

Just to point something out:

The website above is NOT rules, not even by a far stretch - it merealy is *some related text*. But I agree with this statement nonetheless.

Festus

mistformsquirrel
14-09-2007, 05:58
So basically what you're saying is "Most likely, its correct; but the website is not official rules and thus technically shouldn't be referenced as such"?

>.< Cause that's what I'm afraid your saying, and while I'm pretty darn confident you're right on this one <;_;> I just get this feeling this is going to cause me headaches later.

Then again I get headaches very easily <x,x>