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View Full Version : Facing off against SoC Eshin list with Lizardmen, help?



studderigdave
05-09-2007, 23:56
im facing off against a storms of chaos eshin list in a few days. iver seen the army in action a few times and its pretty ugly, but i know little about the army personally, so im looking for some advice on how to take them on with lizardmen.

the list im facing plays alot of small runner units (gutter and night) with poison starts and weapons, some rat swarms, a triad, 2 sorcerers, an assassin, a tunneler team and a master assassin with fellblade.

he is also running a DoW unit of iron gut ogres with full command and warbanner.

i have the following lizardmen units at my disposal:

Slann
old blood on carni
2 oldbloods/scar vets on foot
2 skink priests

16 temple guard, full command
20 saurus with HW and shield, FC
20 saurus with HW and shiled, FC
20 skinks, pipes
20 skinks, jav and shield

6 kroxigors
3 terradons

3 salamanders
1 stegadon

im really torn on the lord choice, wounds fall away fast due to poison, so a good save would be really good, and an oldblood can get really good with armor, BUT fellblade will almost guarantee no armor saves and a hit or 2 from it will definaly kill anything i can field.

should i go magic heavy to avoid his characters jumping around. maybe run alot of BS sapwning of +1 dispel dice.

any more suggestions?

happy_doctor
06-09-2007, 16:56
OK, listen up: been there, done that :D Some years ago a friend of mine used to field this kind of list, and he didn't like my lizardmen at all...

-Take the slann. The Soc Eshin list has nothing that can hurt him (well, except for jezzail teams, but your opponent doesn't seem to field them.) Whether you make him 2nd gen. or not is your choice, but 4th seems necessary, given the gravity of the 7th edition miscasts. Equip him with the bane head,plaque of dominion and plaque of tepok(bsb is a must, as well as a magic banner-war banner, maybe?) Then, in the first turn, make a big chunk of his points back by casting every single magic missile you've got on the master assassin.It'll only take one wound to cripple him and sentence him to death due to the effects of the fellblade (he is bound to roll at least a single "1" or "2" in the duration of the game)

-Against the eshin army, every magic missile counts.Even D6 S4 hits can cause a panic test, which will possibly scatter your enemy's units due to low Ld.

-Don't use many spawnings, you won't need them.^ dispel dice is the maximum you'll need. Take a skink priest, make him lvl2 and equip him with the diadem of power. You'll then have 6 dispel dice,which-when not used- will be added to your casting pool.

-Take the salamanders, as long as you take the master assassin out of action they will be indestructible and will cause a lot of pain to the skaven.

-Take blocks of troops (i.e. saurus warriors and temple guard, the former preferably with the blessing of quetzl to give them added survivability against poison)

-Take a scar veteran with the charm of jaguar warrior,LA and enchanted shield.Keep him away from the fellblade.Other than that, he can take on anything, particularly the eshin triad. (he has 2+ save and moves 18"!! )

-Take 2 units of skinks, scout them if you can, use them to marchblock and kill small units or the ogres with concentrated fire. EXPECT THEM TO DIE, THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE FOR :evilgrin:

-Definitely take the 3 terradons, give them a brave and use them in hit-and run fashion.Just don't let them get charged, they'll die in no time.

studderigdave
06-09-2007, 20:45
Ok, so i made up a test list. tell me what you think:

Slann, 2nd Generation with Plaque of dominion, tepok and bane head. BSB with warbanner
16 temple guard with shields, full command

skink priest, lvl 2, diadem
scarvet, sword of battle, jag charm, light armor, shield, quetzl

20 saurus warriors, FC, Questzl
10 skinks, pipes
10 skinks, pipes

3 terradons

3 salamanders

i have about 80 points left. any suggestions?

happy_doctor
06-09-2007, 21:14
This is a powerful list (against any opponent, not just clan eshin).
Use the remaining 80 pts to get another skink unit with javelins(useful against skirmishers, as you'll be hitting on 5's in general and on 6's when you stand and shoot), and upgrade one blowpipe unit to scouts.
That leaves you with 10 points.What you could do is alter the scar veteran's equipment so as to cut down on the points in order to give your temple guard the banner of huanchi.
Drop the blessing of quetzl (the scar vet will perform solo, so no need for him to be "compatible" with the unit) and the sword of battle, and give the veteran an enchanted shield and a great weapon.Then you have 47 points left over= banner of huanchi and an extra skink.

In general, these tweaks are minor, your list will perform pretty well as it is, provided you use the magic in a correct fashion and deal with the serious threats early on( = master assassin, triad and the ogres).

Just bear in mind that the eshin list gives a 100 pt bonus for each character your opponent kills, and your skink priest will be an easy target. Keep him out of harm, as much as you can.

P.S. as an alternative, you could drop the priest altogether and give the diadem to the slann.(although you will have to part with the bane head..) Then you'd have an extra 115 points to play with! (maybe a unit of kroxigor with the correct tweaking??)

Hope this isn't too confusing.. ;)

studderigdave
06-09-2007, 22:29
nope, everything sounds cool. i think ill drop the bane head, give the diamdem to the slann and run something else, but thansk for all the help. playing tomorrow, ill post my results if you would care to see them.

studderigdave
08-09-2007, 06:35
so the game went down last night, and here is what he brought to the table as far as eshin:

L: Master Assassin - fellblade, talisman, smoke
H: Assassin - warpstone stars
H: Sorcerer - level 2, scroll
H: Sorcerer - level 2, scroll
C: 5 Night Runners - stars
C: 5 Night Runners - stars
C: 5 Night Runners - stars
C: 5 Night Runners - stars
C: 3 Rat Swarms
S: 7 Gutter Runners - stars, poison all
S: 7 Gutter Runners - stars, poison all
S: 7 Gutter Runners - stars, poison all
S: 7 Gutter Runners - tunnelers, poison hw
R: Triad - smoke
R: 4 Ironguts - full command, warbanner

my list looked like this:

Slann, 2nd Generation with Plaque of dominion, tepok and diadem. BSB with warbanner
16 temple guard with shields, full command, tichuchis banner

skink priest, 2 scrolls
scarvet, GW, enh shield, jag charm

20 saurus warriors, FC, Questzl
10 skinks, pipes
10 skinks, pipes
10 skinks, jav

3 terradons

3 salamanders

highlights of the game.

out of the 5 spells the slann took, 4 were magic missiles, including fireball, glaring light, forked lighting and the one from "death" lore that went off on an 8+. 5th spell was bear's anger, which was never used.

the slann won me the game. i lost a single salamander, all my skinks, the scar vet and the saurus block, as well as half my temple guard, but stubborn did great things.

in the end, his master assassin charged the front of my temple guard, killing 3 and loosing badly to CR, fleeing and then getting gunned down by multiple magic missile spells. the salamanders ate the swarms. the scar vet died to the iron guts, as did most of the skinks, but not before they put down 2 of them. most of the runners died to slann magic.

skitterleap didnt get off once in the entire game (except in the end when i just didnt care cuz i saw the game was mine) after 6 turns i won a "sold victory" but we went overtime. in the end, like i said the MA was gunned down by the slann, finla runners were picked off by the terradons, and everything else hid or ran off the board.

thanks for the help.

happy_doctor
08-09-2007, 11:34
Glad to be of help...I hope you both enjoyed the game, because the presence of a 2nd gen. slann tends to make the game a slann-hunt..
Anyway, congratulations on the win! :D

studderigdave
08-09-2007, 12:26
well, once he saw the slann he started to get a lil shaken. he didnt really target the slann unit until he HAD to. temple guard being stubborn really saved my assin this game.

i nick named the slann unit the "lemas russ" for the all firepower i was belting out every round. the slann definatly won me the game.

BigRob
08-09-2007, 13:03
Sounds like a good game, but you were lucky he didnt use the Cover of Darkness rule or a chieftan with the slann popping Brass orb....

happy_doctor
08-09-2007, 18:15
As a matter of fact, the eshin special rule can only be used if the army is comprised entirely from skirmishers...studderigdave's opponent fielded ogres (not skirmishers), and thus couldn't have used it.

The 2nd gen slann is a very reliable character. In fact I've run him as my only character choice in tournaments and have fared pretty well! However, the brass orb can kill him in no time, as can pit of shades. And if you lose him early on the game, the game is pretty much lost! However, a skaven model totting such a dangerous device shouldn't be allowed that close to the slann!
(Oh, and even pit of shades can be countered by casting drain magic on the mage who has it...)

BigRob
08-09-2007, 19:34
I was surprised to see the ogres in the list.They dont bring much killing power, and with the darkness rule reducing LOS, he wouldnt have been able to zero in his Magic Missiles. Against a Slaan, the Brass Orb is essential, and always worth a try, it is probbaly the best way to kill them since you cant assassinate them easily.
The Master Assassin didnt seem to do much, he could have been skiterleaping or just running about everywhere eating the small skink units and the salamanders. My other tactic vs that lizard list is to kill everything else and not get to caught up in trying to kill the slaan.