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Minibull
06-09-2007, 14:47
I've downloaded and skimmed over the Black Library demo scenario book for the upcoming 40k RPG and liked it quite a bit. It looks to be a very solid addition to the 40k universe.

However, one statement on page 2 (the background introduction page) puzzled me. When they describe the Emperor, they say that he is "... master of mankind by the will of the gods...". What gods would these be? The only 'gods' mentioned in cannon are the chaos ones, but they can't mean them. Who else would they mean?

RedStompa
06-09-2007, 15:25
yeah that has popped up on several occasions in the artbooks and other intros to SM/IG books.

Kage2020
06-09-2007, 15:35
And in every single BL book, I believe. The joys of hyperbole or, if it is your want, conspiracy theory.

Not quite sure how "solid" a contribution to the 40k universe it is, but again it is a quick freebie game. :D

Kage

Mechanicus
06-09-2007, 15:41
There's always the "Old One Young Races'" (such as the Eldar) pantheon mentioned in Xenology and the Eldar material. It's possible that the mysterious Hrud god 'qah' of Xenology,who apparently interfered with Terra around 500,000 years ago possibly putting in some form of psyker gene, may have made the Emperor, or approved of the Emperor, or influenced the process which created the Emperor, before being split by Slaanesh in the Fall.

It's possible, but I doubt it. It sounds, like Kage said, to be hyperbole.

Mr Zephy
06-09-2007, 16:19
Or the old ones themselves.

masecase
06-09-2007, 16:40
Or, when believing Erebus the chaos gods...

Kage2020
06-09-2007, 17:11
Don't forget Ysarile - or however you spell it - from Abnett's Eisenhorn books. Yes, we can play this game until the cows come home. ;)

Kage

Minister
06-09-2007, 21:57
Do recall that, amongst the places where it is included, is page 2 of Rogue Trader. It's hardly BI's fault, is it?

I would think that the "will of the gods" line could also be interpreted as an appeasment of local religions before total asimilation. General Ecclesiarchy policy is to supplant the main diety (whether he be the equivelant of Yaweh, Odin or whatever) with the Emperor.

ctsteel
06-09-2007, 23:10
could it be a direct lift from some of the historical proclamations about the emperor, from the times of rome?
I can't even see how it could be interpreted as an ecclesiarchy play on words, since to them the emperor is the *only* god.

Kage2020
06-09-2007, 23:11
No, of course it is not.

And, yes, many of us have thought of a way of justifying these things...

Kage

Khaine's Messenger
07-09-2007, 00:12
And, yes, many of us have thought of a way of justifying these things...

For example, by bringing up the discussion of how the Imperial Church inducts new worlds into the Cult Imperialis (or whatever you call it); the old "wow, your gods are so great and wonderful, did you know their name was really The Emperor? You see, I've got this awesome snake oil and this sea-front real-estate in Tennessee..." routine. Honestly, it's old hat. However, I would love to see a new and different take on it, but sadly it's worked into so few pieces of actual background beyond the mentioned piece that it causes more cognitive dissonance than one would really like.

It's times like this that you start wondering what the Chaos Gods' "victory conditions" are, for (further) example. It sounds absurd to say they would want the Emperor to stand against them, but then again, there have been daemons who claim to relish the Good Fight.... And then you have the Old Ones, the C'tan (perhaps there's very good reason the AdMech thinks he's the Omnissiah...), the Eldar Gods, Gork'n'Mork, etc. Again, a comment that has unfortunately gone "old hat" on us with less conclusive discussion than we'd really like.

Iracundus
07-09-2007, 16:37
In the new Chaos Codex, the bit on Tzeentch reveals (from an omniscient point of view) that Tzeentch has no "Great Plan" and no ultimate motivation because having an aim would mean the end of ambition if the goal were achieved. Tzeentch schemes and plots for its own sake, just to manipulate mortals and see the rise and fall of their fortunes, along with their hopes and ambitions. This lack of a true divine plan isn't something Tzeentch's worshippers know. Even Ahriman in his new Chaos Codex quote is exhorting someone to accept his role in Tzeentch's (nonexistent) grand plan. This purposeless scheming makes the 40K universe and even grimmer place.

Kage2020
07-09-2007, 19:06
Honestly, it's old hat.
Aye, but to be fair so is the idea that if you kill someone, they die.


Again, a comment that has unfortunately gone "old hat" on us with less conclusive discussion than we'd really like.
That's the nature of the beast. "Conclusive discussions" only occur in a single interpretation. If you want it another way then it should be GW's door that you're beating on. Surely?

Anyway, the standard introduction is one of the smaller problems of the Shattered Hopes demo, which to be honest isn't actually that bad.

Kage