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View Full Version : The Holy Ordos of the Inquisition and their allies...



god octo
06-09-2007, 17:18
Back when everyone was arguing that the Inquisition is too puny to fight in Apocalypse (which this thread isn't about, so please don't start that) I wondered just who the Inquisition could call upon. I understand that they can call upon the Imperial Guard and SM, but who else can they call on?

I get that the Witch Hunters can call upon the Stromtroopers of the Black ships, but What about the Frateris Militia? Could they involve the Adeptus Arbites? Would they be allowed to call upon the masses to fight? Could the Ordo xenos call upon xenos allies?

What is the true power of the Inquisition? Who can they call upon for their full strength? Cheers guys.

Arkley
06-09-2007, 17:54
Well its a given they can call apon the IG in full force... AD Mech as well... But as for Space Marines it can only be requests I think... Even then I would say marines coud tell them to shove it and probably have done in the past, I personally don't believe SM's are as nice as they are portrayed.

Mechanicus
06-09-2007, 18:07
A small point, but the Mechanicus is not someone the Inquisition can really count on. They're only really linked with the Imperium via the Treaty of Mars (and later Ceres), and so the Emperor (and the High Lords) only have power over them. The Inquisition is on shaky ground with the AdMech, since they're not (de jure, at least) truly part of the Imperium, as such, and have a lot of influence within the Imperium.

It was mentioned once that even an Inquisitor has to ask before setting foot upon a Forgeworld, and even then, it takes a hell of a lot of negotiations between them. When the Mechanicus are not on their sanctified and sovereign ground, it becomes slightly easier, but they're still awkward and stubborn. :D

Arkley
06-09-2007, 18:52
I have to say I like that idea alot.... Inquisitors arent my favourite people.

grickherder
06-09-2007, 20:20
The Inquisitors are my favorite people :D Back when I started during 2nd edition, my first HQ was an Inquisitor in Terminator Armour.

Requisition away!

Chilltouch
06-09-2007, 20:42
The Adeptus Mechanicus is part of the Imperium, fair and square. The Fabricator General, AdMech's holy leader, is one of the Terran High Lords, duncha know.

The only reason they have any power again the Inquisition is because they are exempt from some Imperial laws - like the Space Marines. This is due to the fact that - like the Space Marines - the Imperium wouldn't be able to survive without them. I'd say the Inquisition has authority over the Adeptus Mechanicus on a minor scale. However, they can't do something like... ship out a Titan, without very good reasons, while he can requisition an entire lesser planet's resources with ease.

Lesser meaning not-so-important. No SM Homeworlds, forgeworlds or any of the real famous ones.

CELS
06-09-2007, 20:51
They can request the aid of anyone and can demand assistance from anyone under the authority of the Adeptus Administratum. (The Adeptus Astartes are tricky, since they're technically under the Adeptus Administratum, but in reality quite independent in many ways). They would be able to request assistance from anyone in the Adeptus Mechanicus (i.e. Titan Legions), Adeptus Arbites, Adeptus Custodes and Adeptus Ministorum as well.

Technically, the Inquisitors have unlimited authority in the Imperium. However, an important point in made in the Eisenhorn trilogy on this subject. Gregor Eisenhorn, originally a solid amalthian, notes that although he could use his Inquisitorial badge to do pretty much whatever he damn well pleases, he prefers to work within the bureaucracy of the Imperium, which means cooperating and playing nice.

An Inquisitor would have the authority to demand aid from the Space Marines, but it's considered bad form, and there's always the chance that such disrespect will push the Space Marines into saying "We refuse. What are you going to do about it?"

The Imperium can be somewhat fragile when it comes to politics, and since Inquisitors are in a position to mess with its delicate balance, most Inquisitors probably know when to play nice. But technically, they have the authority to do whatever they want. Just like how, technically, the King of Norway has the authority to veto the decisions of the Norwegian Parliament, but never actually does it. :)

PS: As for Xenos allies, the Imperium doesn't officially control any xenos worlds, states or empires, so technically an Inquisitor wouldn't have any authority to command xenos allies. But he/she would be authorised to deal with xenos in any way he/she deems appropriate (which includes using them as allies), unless his/her fellow Inquisitors decrees that it is in fact treachery and/or heresy.

Khaine's Messenger
07-09-2007, 01:05
I wondered just who the Inquisition could call upon.

Anything they can get their hands on or talk to, theoretically. Practically, there are concerns about logistics and the costs of diverting high-priority resources, never mind politics (if they choose to get embroiled in that), but for the purposes of the tabletop I would waive most of that discussion. Any Inquisitor who really wants a legion of Skitarii in his taskforce needs only invent suitable blackmail materials, interest-getters (I've got STC intel! Oooh! Who's a good boy then, whozagoodboy?), or otherwise have a standing alliance/friendship with the AdMech (which many Inquisitors do, since not a few of them have a retinue of tech priests hanging in the wings). If they're wrong, well, they may have set back a few future operations by a few steps, but Apocalypse is all about threats in the "right here, right now" terms, and the Inquisition is hardly going to take "no" for an answer.

The biggest limitations are on hard-to-move and "rare" resources, though. Stuff like PDFs, Ordinatus, Titan Legions, Assassins, and Arbites. Yeah, there are system defense ships and the Arbites have a few ships themselves, but if you're talking about a long-term alliance of interests, you're looking at filing a lot more paperwork than you may originally have had in mind.


Could the Ordo xenos call upon xenos allies?

An Inquisitor who's developed that sort of relationship with aliens could do so, yes. It wouldn't be considered "authority" unless he's somehow become a member of their hierarchy, but one could just as well consider it friendship.

Russell's teapot
07-09-2007, 07:15
Agree with the above posts that an Inquisitor is pretty much the personification of the Imperium's will, and as such an avatar is allowed to use any means necessary to further these aims.

However, the greatest enemy of any Inquisitor seems to be another Inquisitor. Were an Inquisitor to use Xenos allies, you can be pretty sure that they will be labeled a heretic by some over-zealous upstart with a big hammer! Whether they can get away with this will depend on their standing & importance, and that of those who oppose them.

That being said, I can't think of any reason why an Inquisitor would not use Xenos allies if the situation called for it & they thought they could get away with it...

Korvos
07-09-2007, 09:55
He wouldn't do it if it went against his morals. A radical Xenos Inquisitor would use xenos allies and tech if he believed it would allow him to better protect the Imperium, but it could lead to other Inquisitors labeling him a traitor.

Exetus
07-09-2007, 11:33
While I agree with most of what is posted here, I have to disagree in some areas. While the Inquisition can requisition aid from the Adeptus Mechanicus, as stated earlier, their request is just that... a request. They could demand it, but once again, that would make it a very strong request. The Adeptus Mechanicus, so long as they are not hereticus are an almost autonomous entity within the boundaries of the Imperium. As stated earlier, the treaties of Mars and Ceres affirm the agreement to work in concert between the two entities.

Keep in mind that while the Admech rever the Omnissiah as their "god", the Omnissiah is simply the Mechanicus' manifestation of the Emperor himself. The aquila represents the interdependent realtionship of Imperium and Admech (as well as the navigators with one of the eagles being eyeless). As a result of their relationship, the Admech IS autonomous within boundaries that they understand. Heresy and treachery are not tolerated. Thus the Inquisition has little power over the Mechanicus. Once again it's a matter of using diplomatic channels to get what you want. Requisition away, but expect that the Adeptus Mechanicus are probably only going to answer the call out of a sense of duty or (much more likely) the idea that they will gain something invaluable from the experience. In addition, they may have their own treaties with an inquisitor or inquisitor lord which may be binding.

Anyone else in the Imperium is fair game although it has been argued (and I am of like mind) that the Adeptus Astartes are much akin to the Adeptus Mechanicus. By their own beliefs, the Space Marines answer only to the Emperor. This belief is what helped the declaration of excommunicate traitoris against the Soul Drinkers when they refused to subject themselves to the will of the Inquisition. Much like the Admech, I would argue that the Adeptus Astartes are largely autonomous as well until they cross the line of heresy, etc. As such, an inquisitor can ask the Space Marines for aid but he'd better have a good reason and be diplomatic else their going to tell him to kiss their Adeptus Astartes asses.

Norsehawk
07-09-2007, 12:58
Inquisitors demand from planetary governments and Imperial Guard regiments.
Inquisitors request from Adeptus Astartes chapters (with the exception of a few chapters, Grey Knights, Deathwatch, Exorcists, Red Hunters, for example)
Inquisitors also request from Adeptus Mechanicus

stormblade
07-09-2007, 13:46
I hope that you don't mind me asking but who are the Red hunters?

inq.serge
07-09-2007, 14:43
The Inquisition has access to everything the imperium owns and don't owns.

An Inq. can get away with exterminatus-ing a planet. And only the Emperor has more power then The Inquisition. If a marine chapter don't want to help, Look at the 2 unknown primarches. If the Highlords don't want to help, then the new highlords will. They are the Law.

And the inquisition is the only imperial organisation that have access to Daemons, the mightiest creatures in the universe, and alien weaponry.

Oh, and they have blackships.


Oh, you daemon-worshipping traitor marine general, we "forgot" to check the security on cell 555655657-45544hg455-56777j, so the Alpha there "Accidentally" annihilated the star your fleet was orbiting, so now you'll be destroyed in the black hole.

Axel
07-09-2007, 15:10
The Inquisition has access to everything the imperium owns and don't owns.

An Inq. can get away with exterminatus-ing a planet. And only the Emperor has more power then The Inquisition.

An Inquisitor can get away with Exterminatus IF he can explain it to his fellow Inquisitors. There is nothing that stops an Inquisitor from becoming accused Heretic by a fellow Inquisitor, and when the conclave agrees he is in deep trouble.


If a marine chapter don't want to help, Look at the 2 unknown primarches. If the Highlords don't want to help, then the new highlords will. They are the Law.

Sorry, but if an Inquisitor demands for excummunication he has to back up that with a STRONG case. The Inquisition will not look lightly upon waste of Imperial resources, and Inquisitors are not excempt from that. An Inquisitor asking for unneeded aid from an SM order and alienating them in the process will probably look forward to a shining new career as servitor.

inq.serge
07-09-2007, 15:15
Inq.s don't become servitors! They know to much secret info.

And a single Inq or Inq.Lord cannot excommunicate a chapter, but a huge conclave can. And destroying a planet is not a big deal. Only a mightier inquisitor can question an other inquisitor, otherwise he'll be the heretic.

Kage2020
07-09-2007, 15:32
Sure a single Inquisitor or Inquisitor Lord can excommunicate a Chapter. That doesn't mean that it would be ratified by his brethren.

Kage

Mechanicus
07-09-2007, 15:52
The Adeptus Mechanicus is part of the Imperium, fair and square. The Fabricator General, AdMech's holy leader, is one of the Terran High Lords, duncha know.

The only reason they have any power again the Inquisition is because they are exempt from some Imperial laws - like the Space Marines. This is due to the fact that - like the Space Marines - the Imperium wouldn't be able to survive without them. I'd say the Inquisition has authority over the Adeptus Mechanicus on a minor scale. However, they can't do something like... ship out a Titan, without very good reasons, while he can requisition an entire lesser planet's resources with ease. Exetus has pretty much covered all this, but I'd just like to say that while (de jure) it is effectively an allied empire, and is akin to such in its actions and autonomy. De facto, it is part of the Imperium, and, as I said, the High Lords (which the Fabricator-General is a part of, since not representing the Mechanicus would be deeply insulting to the Mechanicus) have power over the Mechanicus. While the Inquisition should be able to deal with the Mechanicus by, as has been said: influence, blackmail, bribery and threats, or a combination of the above, there is no one left who can really rectify the original official remit of the Inquisition to specifically include the Mechanicus so that they would be completely under the power of the Inquisition. I imagine anyone who suggested it would be... somewhat inconvenienced by the tech-priests. It is very hard to organise a political campaign when the warp drive of the ship you are on explodes, it really is. ;)

To summarise: the Inquisition has remit over the entire Imperium, but the Astartes and Mechanicus can claim that they technically are only nominally part of the Imperium for administrative purposes, whilst having no allegiance besides the Emperor (and by extension, the High Lords). So while, de facto, the Inquisition could order about a tech-priest or a Space Marine, de jure, they can't. Any action, however, has political consequences, and so most are more careful than to demand anything of the Mechanicus.

Iracundus
07-09-2007, 16:28
The Inquisition is not one centralized entity so part of the problems lies in explaining how it polices itself or has any coherent policy. Yes, it has its conclaves of Inquisitors but these conclaves are local affairs. There is nothing theoretically preventing one conclave of inquisitors from declaring another conclave heretics and its decisions invalid (and vice versa).

Norsehawk
07-09-2007, 17:43
I hope that you don't mind me asking but who are the Red hunters?

I don't know much fluff from them, but from the wikipedia entry I was looking at when I typed the message:
Red Hunters

This chapter has strong ties to the Inquisition; the entire Chapter has been known to serve under an Inquisitor Lord on occasion. Their uniform is red, with a white skull with a black Inquisition symbol on its head as a Chapter badge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Space_Marine_Chapters

inq.serge
07-09-2007, 19:54
The Inquisition is not one centralized entity so part of the problems lies in explaining how it polices itself or has any coherent policy. Yes, it has its conclaves of Inquisitors but these conclaves are local affairs. There is nothing theoretically preventing one conclave of inquisitors from declaring another conclave heretics and its decisions invalid (and vice versa).

Ever played inquisitor?

It's the amalathians that try to keep it together, but still, there's a lot of in fights, especially between monodominants and xanthites.

icegreentea
08-09-2007, 02:29
The Inquisition is not one centralized entity so part of the problems lies in explaining how it polices itself or has any coherent policy. Yes, it has its conclaves of Inquisitors but these conclaves are local affairs. There is nothing theoretically preventing one conclave of inquisitors from declaring another conclave heretics and its decisions invalid (and vice versa).

i think the fluff from the thorian faction guide from the =I= rule book pretty much says that certain puritan factions really do consider other factions as heretics. but here comes the other thing, inqusitors are exceedingly rare. generally the only time inquistors meet are when a conclave is called, or when one hunts down another. and in general, there are far more destablizing elements than a radical inqusitor for a puritan to hunt down.

that all being said, im sure there have been lots of inquistorial clashes. just all hidden and/or forgotten... or never recorded anywhere to start with.

Iracundus
08-09-2007, 03:41
I am aware of the Inquisitor factions. The problem lies in what happens when you have different groups of Inquisitors declaring each other heretics, both groups with the theoretical power to requisition troops, weapons, and other resources. The potential exists for civil war on a mass scale that could cause widespread disruption to the Imperium (or at least the local area of the Imperium).

Groups of Inquisitors also don't need to be as sharply differentiated as the puritans or radical factions so outsiders wouldn't necessarily easily be able pick sides. Think Monodominant and a more moderate (but still puritan) faction in conflict. Both sides could levy troops to wipe out the other, and both could rant on the Imperial propaganda party line so neither would appear "obviously" heretical. There isn't a higher authority to get them to behave.

BrainFireBob
08-09-2007, 06:06
I'd like to add, off the tangential conversation, that that's part of the reason the Imperial Fists and successors, such as the Templars, are given such leeway- they're Inquisition lapdogs, between the lines. As I recall, the Crimson Fist's defensive missiles being compromised was suspected as being part of an inquisitor fight, but I may be mis-remembering.

Iracundus
08-09-2007, 06:17
It was suspected as sabotage. I don't think it was ever conclusively said what was the source.

Axel
08-09-2007, 09:42
I am aware of the Inquisitor factions. The problem lies in what happens when you have different groups of Inquisitors declaring each other heretics,...

There isn't a higher authority to get them to behave.

The High Inquisitors can, and ultimately the conclave will judge all actions. If there is sufficient trouble a conclave will be called, and when one of the participating Inquisitors fails to show up this will not be beneficial to his case. The Conclave can confirm and excomunication, and can declare any Inquisitor as outlaw.

While an Inquisitor can get away with many things, even provoking the odd civil war by calling upon local aid against his enemies (be they Xenos, Heretics or fellow Inquisitors) there is a limit to it. The Inquisition is not an unstructured group of equal Inquisitors with equal rights for all - if an Inquisitor fails to justify his actions he is probably in trouble as deep (or deeper) as the lowest citizen gone heretic. Ultimately, the Inquisition is subject to the high council, or it would rule the Empire. At that level the power distribution is as much decided by custom, individual charisma, shifting alliances and backstabbing as by law.

Iracundus
08-09-2007, 13:04
There isn't a true hierarchy of conclaves though in the Inquisition and the Inquisition, while having a seat on the High Lords, doesn't have to answer to them as strictly speaking they answer only to the Emperor. The entire organization is decentralized. When conclaves declare another one heretical, I'm sure they'd try to justify their actions (and vice versa). Particularly when both sides are puritan leaning, both sides can claim they were purging a nest of rogues that had fallen from the true path of the Emperor. When it comes down to such, the outcome can rest on the politics and when you have such potential for people of such power to abuse their power (even with the best of intentions) you have the pathway to chaos (as in disorder, not in the warp Chaos).

Chilltouch
08-09-2007, 17:00
The Inquisition essentially just works through votes. For example, if you have discovered heresy that runs riot throughout an entire system, you better arrange a Conclave, request a sanction to nuke the buttocks out of the system and if enough members of the Inquisition support your cause, then you'll be given a nice bundle of torpedoes. If they don't, tough luck.

Now, if you go ahead and requisition the nukes without sanction, then a Conclave will be called without you knowing. If they agree on excommunicating you, you'll be assassinated in your sleep, or abducted and made into a servitor.

The Inquisition will ask questions if you do many things. Organize a crusade, call upon a fleet, order a Titan, requisition a planet and so on. There's also difficult ground like Space Marines and Adeptus Mechanicus.

For example, if your Inquisitor walks up to a Chapter and asks for three companies, they'll probably say no. You might consider this an offence and call a Conclave to declare them traitors for not obeying your will.

The Inquisition would probably just laugh at you and ask on what grounds you requested those troops.

If it's for a personal crusade into a minor system, no, and there would be nothing you could do (except requisition nukes and nuke the homeworld, but then a Conclave wouldn't need to be called. You'd be killed in your sleep.)

If it's for the good of the Imperium to support a major cause, then still no. However, they would have to do as you command. And then the Chapter would be forced to do as you command and they'd probably get kept on a tight leash for disobeying the Inquisition, and to check for heresy.

However, if you get friendly with the Chapter first, by say... Help the Blood Angels find a cure for the Black Rage, or donate a Cadia-sized beer keg to the Space Wolves, then you'd probably be able to barter over the forces you could requisition with the Chapter Master.

If your Inquisitor ever plans on doing anything major, system effecting, forgeworld effecting, chapter effecting or assassin utilizing, it's always best to call together a Conclave of Inquisitors and gain permission.

If you gain lots of friends in the Inquisition, they'll probably go "Well, whatever you plan, it is for the good of the Imperium. This I know." and give you their approval. If you can probably get enough Inquisitors on your side, congratulations, the Imperium is your oyster.

However, if you try to do stuff like use Space Marines and blow up planets behind the Inquisition's back, then you'll get the Inquisition turning on you and you won't be far from losing your Inquisitorial Seal and either being assassinated or converted into a servitor.

The Inquisition is a complex place. Best way to represent it, although it is still flawed, is to look at each country on Earth.

Iracundus
08-09-2007, 21:36
The above while true only addresses the lone Inquisitor's actions. My hyopthetical scenario is at conclave level or when groups of Inquisitors have conflicting opinions with another group of Inquisitors, when one side isn't obviously running amok or being obviously heretical. Both sides could be playing by the rules and justifying their actions in requisitioning forces to fight the other side as being for the good of the Imperium, and both sides could sincerely believing they're helping the Imperium. Letting them fight it out raises the specter of civil war within the Imperium. While this may do for little personal Inquisitor vs Inquisitor conflicts, it can lead to a lot of chaos if groups of Inquisitors start trying to settle their differences via such means. I haven't truly heard an adequate explanation yet why such things haven't happened yet in 40K.

stormblade
09-09-2007, 02:31
Perhaps Inquisitors are just too damn smart- but I wouldn't put my money on that.:confused:

Iracundus
09-09-2007, 05:04
We're talking of the Inquisition where some members put the accused through trial after trial until they finally fail one on the premise that just being accused means they must be guilty.

DantesInferno
09-09-2007, 06:42
The above while true only addresses the lone Inquisitor's actions. My hyopthetical scenario is at conclave level or when groups of Inquisitors have conflicting opinions with another group of Inquisitors, when one side isn't obviously running amok or being obviously heretical. Both sides could be playing by the rules and justifying their actions in requisitioning forces to fight the other side as being for the good of the Imperium, and both sides could sincerely believing they're helping the Imperium. Letting them fight it out raises the specter of civil war within the Imperium. While this may do for little personal Inquisitor vs Inquisitor conflicts, it can lead to a lot of chaos if groups of Inquisitors start trying to settle their differences via such means. I haven't truly heard an adequate explanation yet why such things haven't happened yet in 40K.

Well, it works on the basis that the Inquisition is a very large body indeed, and so while there isn't an official command structure as such, there are long-standing political and other ties which limit what individual Inquisitors or groups of Inquisitors can do. You need to be able to convince a large number of other Inquisitors if you're doing anything major, unless you want to be hauled up yourself before a panel later on.

If you're asking why the Inquisition just doesn't form up into two massive factions and fight it out, it isn't really in anyone's interests to do so. If the Inquisition had such a schism, you can be pretty sure that people would start coming up with elaborate excuses to deny them forces for requisition and so forth. The whole idea of Inquisitors requires that their authority be unquestioned. Start having them openly fighting one another on a frequent basis, and you're going to undermine that authority completely.

precinctomega
09-09-2007, 15:47
The Second Inquisition War has been on the cards for years now. It can only be a matter of time... ;)

R.