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Malorian
08-09-2007, 03:31
I'm the guy that was posting for ideas against HE a while ago. Well my ogres beat those high elves pretty good, but now my lizardmen are in a 5000 point game against vampires counts at the end of the month.

These are the rules he set:

Characters
No more then 5 Characters and spend no more then 30% of the total points on them, does not include magic. Can be Special and may use up to 10 Character slots.

Example: Nagash 1 lord slot and 3 hero slots.
Necrarch lord uses 1 lord slot and a hero slot,
This combo = 2 characters with 6 slots.
3 heroes slot left over

Core
Must use the minimum amount as per army composition >=6

Spend at least 35%

Special
Not to exceed army composition <=7
Max 40% of your roster

Rare
As per army composition <=5
Max 25% of your roster

Magic
This include all magic items, Banners, weapons etc.
Max 10% of total points


I'm pretty sure my regular lists fit into these pretty easily except for the heros part, but that isn't a problem.

This guy likes to play different lists, as in list people don't usually use. The only time I played him before was with deamonic legion that was 90% horrors. So I don't think he'll go necarch, and the blood dragon cav list is probably also out. One person said he like to use a lot of troops (obvious by the hero limit) although I'm sure I'll be seeing some pretty crazy lords...

I was thinking of going with a combat list based on blocks in the center and then smashing him quickly on one flank. All my characters would have tepok to give me some dispell dice and I would take one skink priest w/ the item that lets me turn 2 power dice into deispell dice. This should stop me being swamped by hordes of skellies.

Then again I do own two slann, so I have also thought of going defensive and magic heavy and sitting back and just laying into him...

What do you suggest?

Malorian
09-09-2007, 22:23
Anyone? I mean the forum has been slow, but come on...

gerrymander61
10-09-2007, 00:06
Sacred host of Tzlacotl. Immunity to psychology. There goes his biggest strength because he'll have a hard time making you break. Take advantage of the fact that he won't have any shooting and grab some carnosaurs or something. With nothing for them to fear they'll just tear his units to shreads every round of combat and again, be hard pressed to break. You don't need Slann because you can easily shut down his magic phase with a few cheap skink preists with diadem and cube of darkness along with a few Tepok marked units, and carno's with nothing to be afraid of can hurt alot more. Then you jsut go foot saurus heavy because with equal static CR (other than that he'll outnumber you) his infantry will never break yours, and you'll never need to fear fear.

The only thing that could cause you trouble would be black knights, because they are the only unit that really stands a chance of breaking yours. Oh, and that silly black coach, but you just put kroxigor in it's way.

Malorian
10-09-2007, 03:31
I like the immune to psych thing, but I plan to do some fleeing to counter charge them and that coach, not to mention any dragons or flying nightmares.

Glad to hear you are on the side of no slann and just tough characters with tepok. I can't wait to unlease me old blood on a carnosaur on him... although a nasty vampire on something flying could do some real damage to him...

happy_doctor
10-09-2007, 10:30
let me first say that, in my humble opinion, your opponent has set the restrictions in such a way that they only suit him (as a VC player...)
Why is that?
1)He restricted the number of characters, but he can easily take3 or 4 vampires within the points limit (as he didn't restrict the slots)
2)He restricted the points that go into rare, which won't hurt him at all, as his only choice is to take a black coach and a handful of banshees.(=500 pts)
3)He restricted your choices too much: if you spend 30% in characters and 35% in core, there wil be only 35% of your army to spend on Kroxigors, Cavalry, Stegadons, etc...

Setting all these conspiracy theories aside :D ...

-My opinion is to take one 2nd gen slann in a unit of temple guard with the totem of the prophecy and plaque of dominion, plaque of tepok and bane head. You will need the defensive capabilities of the slann, since the number of skink priests you can take is limited. Moreover, versus undead the first spell in the light lore is great, and the slann alone can provide a nice magic phase if you choose the spells wisely...

-Take a Carnosaur, with its Blood Frenzy it will turn into a monster once it's tasted blood..Run him in one flank, or keep him in reserve to counter the flyers of your opponent. Give the oldblood the aura of quetzl, the burning blade of chotec (for hunting black knights) the curse charm of tepok (in order to make the most out of the first miscast your opponent suffers..and he will suffer at least one in the first turns) and an enchanted shield, along with the blessing of sotek.

-Take a JSOD oldblood. Give him charm of jaguar warrior, scimitar of the sun, maiming shield and blessings of sotek, old ones and tlatzcotl. That's 9 S5 attacks on the charge... Throw him on any undead unit and watch "dawn of the dead", lustria-style! :D

-Take a skink priest with the diadem of power.Don't bother with dispel scrolls. Drain magic and dispel dice will keep the worst spells from harming you. And the curse charm of tepok will hopefully cancel a whole magic phase.

-Given the restrictions, you really have to load on saurus warriors, which is a good thing! Take a unit of temple guard for your slann, make them 16 or 20 strong. Fill your core slots with another 4 units of 20 saurus warriors.Arm 2 of them with spears(they'll do the zombie hunting).. Take some skinks to round the core up.(5 units with 2 scouting will do fine...)

-Load up on saurus cavalry and kroxigors.They are fear causing, and quite reiable. The only thing in a VC army that can take on the afore-mentioned units is their characters, but that's what your own characters should be taking care of, right??? 2 4-strong units of Kroxigors and 2 6-strong units of Cavalry will help a lot. GIve one unit the banner of huanchi.Don't bother with commands(except for the cavalry unit with the banner)

-Rare: You'll have just about enough points for 7 salamander packs, and a stegadon.

gerrymander61
10-09-2007, 11:22
Oh, get a JSOD Oldblood with the Pirannah Blade or Scar vet on a cold one with Pirannah blade and Bane head. TAke out the general really early on

Personally I would not get a stegadon. His units won't ever break, and the stegadon will just lose the combat the next round because he WILL be outnumbered and he'll be hard pressed to win combats. Stegadons rarely earn back their points costs normally, and vs Undead, they stand no chance of doing so. Just stack up on Salamanders instead. They already cause fear and so you don't have to worry about being charged so much. Against low armored targets they'll cause complete devastation, and if they're near your general (or even not) you can bait with them because odds are, unless they're right at the table edge, they'll rally before long.

Malorian
10-09-2007, 13:01
I'm sure that these restrictions are going to be way in his favor... and he's added a new one: blind setup )se put up a board block the view of the other side when we deply. So he's really trying something sneaky...

studderigdave
10-09-2007, 14:09
sounds really shady on his part. are you good firends with this guy? why not just use normal rules for lists and set up?

Lord Tzeentch
11-09-2007, 01:43
All i can say is he must be a good friend.

In a game like this you have to have a Skink Chief.

Skink Chief 55pts
light armour and shield 4pts
Blessed Spawning of Sotek 20pts
Cloak of Feathers 30pts
Sword of Might 20pts
Total 129pts

This little fella is a God send you may think he costs way to much but he is amazingly hard and can take on other heroes worth twice as much and still come out on top. I'v been a massive fan of this little guy since he killed a Vampire Lord on a winged nightmare in one turn,twice!!!Awww good times But he will be able to deal with lone Characters also he can add much needed support if one of you heroes faces off against his evil lord.

Malorian
11-09-2007, 03:13
Lol well I have the model for that setup but I don't think this is the game for him.

He's not a good friend. He runs the bunker in my hometown. Basically I want to play a big game and this guy is one of the top guys at the bunker. I figure if I can beat him at his own game then I'm set.

So any other tips? Given the restrictions what tactics do you think he might be going for?

Lord Tzeentch
11-09-2007, 03:33
Well you never know:)

But on to the bigger picture. I would take a 2nd gen slann with Plaque of Dominion, Plaque of Tepok and Diadem of Power. No need for the Divine Plaque of Protection as he will have no missile ower and gaze of nagash is only str 4 and easerly dispelled. The maybe think about an Oldblood on a Carnosaur to really mess with his battle plan.

The best thing to do is create the list then post it on the army lists forum so then we will have a better idea of what you need to beat this army of the dead.

Malorian
11-09-2007, 05:28
Ok. I'll get it up as soon as I can figure which way I want to go...