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View Full Version : Honestly, Why WOULDN'T you be in the Imperium?



Nikkolas
08-09-2007, 06:20
Now think practically here. You are an actual human being in the WH40K-Verse.

Why would you side with any other force than the Imperium OF Mankind?

There are hostile alien races everywhere who would like nothing better than to kill you in terrible ways.

There is an eternally and beyond powerful force of malicious entities that are looking to destroy you.

The Imperium isn't perfect but it IS run by humans for humans. In a dark time like the 41st Millenium, it's better to suck it up and say a few prayers to the God-Emperor than anything else, in my opinion.

Ktotwf
08-09-2007, 06:24
I would agree, unless you were given a choice between being a Demon Prince and living out your life in the Imperium.

Demon Prince > Servitude to the Emperor.

Otherwise...it isn't like people are really making a choice - the Tyranids don't offer you a membership, the Orks don't care, and the Eldar look at you like a bug.

So, you either serve the Emperor and maybe you join him after death, or you worship Chaos, and with 99.9999% probability suffer an eternity of torment.

I think it is faulty to say that people "choose" to side with the Imperium. For 99% of the citizens of the Imperium they are simply living their lives just like me and you, only vaguely considering the grand idea of the immeasurably vast Imperium, IF that is, they know anything about it other than to worship the Emperor. I don't think they really have a conception other than that the Imperium is everything and everywhere.

Iracundus
08-09-2007, 06:26
If one had to be human, then I'd probably opt for the Tau defectors. The quality of life they lead seems to be better than your average Imperial citizen. Granted the Tau rule over them but then chances are as an Imperial citizen, some corrupt ruling class would be ruling over you as well with crushingly heavy taxes. The Tau while first among equals at least aren't corrupt in the same ways the Imperial Governors can be. The humans living under the Tau also for whatever reason don't seem to be wracked by daemonic possession and uncontrolled psykers. Either that or the Tau have some way of keeping a lid on things.

Ktotwf
08-09-2007, 06:27
If one had to be human, then I'd probably opt for the Tau defectors. The quality of life they lead seems to be better than your average Imperial citizen. Granted the Tau rule over them but then chances are as an Imperial citizen, some corrupt ruling class would be ruling over you as well. The Tau while first among equals at least aren't corrupt in the same ways the Imperial Governors can be. The humans living under the Tau also for whatever reason don't seem to be wracked by daemonic possession and uncontrolled psykers. Either that or the Tau have some way of keeping a lid on things.


Yeah, but I would hate to imagine the tortures that awaited a Tau Gue'vesa if they were recaptured by the Imperium... ::shiver::

Iracundus
08-09-2007, 06:28
No worse than the torture an Imperial citizen would face if accused of heresy (whether or not they're really guilty).

Ktotwf
08-09-2007, 06:29
I'd carry a cyanide capsule all the same.

Kandarin
08-09-2007, 06:33
If I were an Imperial citizen, I would most likely not know any better than to join Chaos. It's cheaper to purge offenders than to truly educate everyone, so what little the average citizen knows about the Chaos Powers can't be enough to prevent them from slipping. In fact, if I were an Imperial tempted by Chaos, I might not know I was disobeying the Emperor at all!

Iracundus
08-09-2007, 06:35
To the earlier poster that preferred to side with Chaos, worshipping Chaos is like betting your life on the lottery. Only a fraction of worshippers get Marked. Only a fraction of Marked become Chosen of which only some become Champions. Of course only a fraction of champions ever reach the reward of Daemonhood. Even then, as a Daemon Prince, while technically immortal, they could be dissolved and destroyed by their patron god. If not, or if of Chaos Undivided, then they have an eternity of struggle ahead as they either do their god's bidding or fight other daemons or mortals for status and greater power.

Kandarin
08-09-2007, 07:30
To the earlier poster that preferred to side with Chaos, worshipping Chaos is like betting your life on the lottery. Only a fraction of worshippers get Marked. Only a fraction of Marked become Chosen of which only some become Champions. Of course only a fraction of champions ever reach the reward of Daemonhood. Even then, as a Daemon Prince, while technically immortal, they could be dissolved and destroyed by their patron god. If not, or if of Chaos Undivided, then they have an eternity of struggle ahead as they either do their god's bidding or fight other daemons or mortals for status and greater power.

But nearly every worshipper going in in the beginning doesn't know that and is told otherwise by Chaos. If we lived in the 40K-verse, we wouldn't know better either.

Bassik
08-09-2007, 07:50
I would deffinetly deffect to Chaos, I mean, its awesome.

Savant
08-09-2007, 09:11
I would deffinetly deffect to Chaos, I mean, its awesome.

Seconded. They have a better retirement plan than the Imperium for a start.

Lothlanathorian
08-09-2007, 09:22
Hmmm....I'd be forced to choose between mindless slaughter or leather, chains, whips and mindless pleasure...hmmm....ALL GLORY TO KHORNE!!!

BUT, as stated very much here, the average citizen don't know jack 'bout nothin'.

Born Again
08-09-2007, 10:14
As pointed out, humans don't "choose" to belong to the Imperium, any more than you "choose" to be American, English or wherever else you're born. From an outside perspective, I wouldn't be in the Imperium because they Tau offer better lifestyle without the oppressed lifestyle and constant threat of being the latest innocent to be convicted of heresy. If I were actually in the 40k universe, it's just a case of would I know any better?
As for the Chaos/ Imperial debate, the quote sums it all up: "It is better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven".
But having said that, the Imperium is far from heaven, regardless of what the priests tell you!

Chilltouch
08-09-2007, 11:36
I'd be born into the Imperial of Mankind, most likely.

I wouldn't know better than to be in the Imperium of Mankind.

I'd probably turn to a better, alternative life if possible - whether it's under the Tau or Chaos.

Hun
08-09-2007, 11:54
Chaos offers the only chance for most people of achieving any kind of power or freedom. Even if it is still only a small chance it is better than they would get anywhere else. So I think I would become a Tzeentchian cultist.

Revlid
08-09-2007, 12:22
Most human Chaos worshippers end up as slaves or lackeys; I'd rather join up with the Great Good of the Tau. Better equipment and training = higher chance of survival, and actual respect.

Sojourner
08-09-2007, 12:23
Many simply don't know how good they've got it under Imperial rule. They're brutal, uncaring and oppressive because they have to be - but run a tight ship and you'll get by alright. They'll come to your aid if you're worth anything to them, and they'll even put a quick bullet in your head if you need it, which is the ultimate gesture of mercy in the context of what could happen to you in the hands of the Imperium's enemies.

MutantMaggot
08-09-2007, 13:25
It depends where I was an Imperial citizen. Tau -- nah, it's all too likely that the Imperium will recpture you, or you die in war. Chaos -- if there were chaos cults in the area, and lots of, I'd consider it, but only then. Imperium -- so long as you're not close to any xenos army, away from chaos and war, then yes, the Imperium is the safest master -- though it may be on the verge of collapse, I doubt a human would live long enough to see it.

Iracundus
08-09-2007, 13:36
Actually the Imperium has stripped its border with the Tau in order to reinforce the Cadian Gate, so the Tau aren't high on the list of priorities. Any humans that have gone over to the Tau aren't likely to be recaptured in their lifetimes if they aren't enlisted up to be auxillaries.

Iuris
08-09-2007, 13:44
You all assume that the Imperium always delivers what it promises.

That's not always the case.

You always have to contribute troops and tithes for the Imperium. Means you have less to build up your economy, maintain the PDF and so on. BTW, the Imperium policy is "Why bring technology to a world that has managed without it so far?".

When the Dark Eldar start raiding, you'll have fewer troops - and the Imperium may decide you're more useful as bait.

When the tyranids need to be diverted, your troops are taken, and you are left to yourself. IF you don't need to be sacrificed by LURING the Tyranids over.

One idiot on the world starts a chaos cult, you barely manage to fend off the crazed spawn from hell on your own, and find out you were just in time to have the opportunity to watch the cyclonic torpedoes impact. Of course, you could be lucky. You could just be rounded up into labour camps and sterylized. Counts as mercy.

You have a nice agricultural society going on. The AdMech arrive, start to mine weapons grade ore, poison the environment, and when the ore runs out - they cut the costs and leave you on a dead world.

All examples from GW/BL works.

Gae'Mot
08-09-2007, 13:44
Chances of survival are better when serving the tau empire. Any human (imperial or not) has a pretty big chance to be dragged into war anyway.

And the imperium also gives you the constant fear of the inquisition and that nice little feeling you're disposable.

stormblade
08-09-2007, 13:50
As for the Chaos/ Imperial debate, the quote sums it all up: "It is better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven".
But having said that, the Imperium is far from heaven, regardless of what the priests tell you!

- Well, turning to Chaos is more like serving in hell mind you.

MutantMaggot
08-09-2007, 14:04
I think my first call is the tau then ...

Aekold
08-09-2007, 14:26
Well i would side whit nurgle. let all around me rot and such lovly things =) or i go to necrons and become an pariah ^^

MutantMaggot
08-09-2007, 14:31
OK ...

With necrons, I doubt they'd listen if you said: "Make me a pariah" before you died. With nurgle, your forgetting one thing -- you'd rot too, just not feel it.

Tanith Ghost
08-09-2007, 14:39
So nice to see people who scream murder and rape at the idea of our own modern sanitized warfare advocating going to chaos and becoming
a far more reprehensible monster than the worst criminals alive today.:eyebrows: It doen't take a rocket scientist to realize how dumb turning to chaos is. If you'd do that, why not jump from a plane at ten thousand feet up with a ripped chute for a billion dolars? Maybe you'll live and be famous.:rolleyes:

The tau are not better, as so many foolishly hope. They tell better lies. When the next hive fleet comes knocking, it won't be you they scramble to evac from a world being eaten. 'Slow them down for the greater good human auxilury' is more likely.

Even if I knew the whole truth, I'd be true blue Imperial. Only cowards sell out their own specis so they can be pets for some blue anime rejects.
To quote a dread in DoW- "It is better to die for the Emperor than live for yourself."

Rotten
08-09-2007, 14:58
I would take the first opportunity that presented itself to enlist on a Rogue Trader ship and find an alien or non-Imperial human world as far away from "everything" as possible. Alternatively, I would just stay with the RT and live a nomadic life.

Sure the Imperium exist by and for humans and is the only light in the universe and all that, but there's no way in hell I would spend my short life serving that fascist theocracy. Whether I would have developed any alternative political ideas and realised there might be something better out there, living under such an all-autoritarian rulership is an entirely different matter though. :rolleyes:

The pestilent 1
08-09-2007, 14:58
Praise father Nurgle!

If you don't get why, you never will.

Iuris
08-09-2007, 15:06
It is better to die for the Emperor than live for yourself.

I must be missing something there... After I die, my soul gets eaten by demons anyway, and the only good thing is that I don't feel it, right? So, staying alive and away from harm seems to be the best strategy.

Anyway, you've got most of the other things right:
-chaos reality is nowhere near to being pleasant. Even if you DO somehow manage to be the Slaaneshi champion, by the time you reach that, you're no longer interested in girls. You've long ago switched to more "interesting" activities. The kind spotted on the lower half of porn pages. :eyebrows: Oh, and you can't sleep at night - you can't trust your guards to keep ALL assasins out. You need eyes in the back of your head for it. Litterally, probably.
-Tau reality is not as nice as it sounds - the Tau will overwhelm the human community. See the Tau victory in Dark Crusade to see how that works. Within a few generations, humans are all but gone.

RampagingRavener
08-09-2007, 15:15
Chalk me up for the Tau.

As much as the little blue freaks irritate me, they'd give you a better quality of living than the Imperium. Remember, they still let you worship the Emperor, so long as you fill your part in the Greater Good.

The_Warsmith
08-09-2007, 15:29
why turn to chaos? well, you live far longer than your average human in the EOT, the tyranids, the necrons, the tau, the orks, the eldar/dark eldar and all the imperiums armies can't come after you your safe. you don't have to worship the chaos gods so an eternity of torment isn't a certainty (unless you choose to become a pawn of theirs) and with the powers of chaos coursing through you you become the equivelent of a space marine with a good chance of becomeing one (if you where chosen). no discrimination or religious acts of genocide no tithes to give and no opression. if you wanted you could just live your life peacefully on a deamon world, the powers of chaos and their deamons really arn't as bad as everyone makes them seem :p

Chilltouch
08-09-2007, 15:38
Tanith Ghost, that's not the point. I'd be seduced by the promises of a better life, turn to a Chaos cult and become a slave with a life expectancy of about two months.

With Tau, yet again, I'd be seduced by the promises of a better life and if I refused, I would go to a prison camp or be executed most likely. And, I might actually get a better life, rather than working in a sweatshop for the rest of my life in a hive world.

Tanith Ghost
08-09-2007, 15:50
I must be missing something there... After I die, my soul gets eaten by demons anyway, and the only good thing is that I don't feel it, right? So, staying alive and away from harm seems to be the best strategy.




Until you die as a duty shirking coward, and then you definitely end up daemon food. Whereas serving the Emperor gets you a place at His side.

So be daemon food after a life of selfish waste or die knowing you mattered, even if in no one's eyes but the Emperor himself.

The Guy
08-09-2007, 15:52
I'd live in the imperium, sign up for the guard and kill me some xenos scum :p maybe I'd be so well know and powerful that GW would make a model of me ;)

Iuris
08-09-2007, 15:57
Reads like a propaganda poster, it does ;)

ssgtdude
08-09-2007, 15:59
Loyalty has its price, but is rewarded ten fold.

Long live the emperor

The amazonian LXIX will never sway from their cause nor will their commander.

Iuris
08-09-2007, 16:00
Until you die as a duty shirking coward, and then you definitely end up daemon food. Whereas serving the Emperor gets you a place at His side.
Which you are ALSO just as unable to feel as getting devoured. Mind you, I'm not quite sure imperial propaganda got this bit right, anyway. You die, soul is cast adrift, finders keepers. Why would the emperor be any better at finding and keeping than all the other little demons?

Tanith Ghost
08-09-2007, 16:02
You have fun being a luchables pack for some nurglings then while I go have a beerfest party with Leman Russ in my afterlife.:p


Daemons fear the Emperor's name, as well as his servants. A selfish heretic soul is more appealing to the creatures of the immatrium than a pious imperial.
The Emperor directs a searchlight across the galaxy as well. Between these two as well as his considerable power, I'll stake my soul on the aquilla.

RampagingRavener
08-09-2007, 16:08
So be daemon food after a life of selfish waste or die knowing you mattered, even if in no one's eyes but the Emperor himself.

Or, get conscripted into the Gaurd and die a pointless, meaningless, and rather painful death in some war no-one will ever know or care about. Compared to being absorbed by the Tau and living a fairly normal, peaceful life and perhaps raise a family with another Gue'seva. Or however the hell you spell it. And human souls (other than Pskyers) are too 'dull' to be consumed by Daemons upon death, or at least too 'dull' to actually feel or understand it.

Besides, the vast majority of the "SERVE TEH EMPEROR OR BURN IN HELL" stuff in the Imperium is propaganda put out by the High Lords of Terra who're just keeping the Emperor in stasis so they can control the Imperium for their own petty, selfish measures anyway...

The Guy
08-09-2007, 16:11
personally I'd love to be in the imperium. Gearing up for war. Figthing alongside your friends. They'd all die. Then I'd die and spend an eternity alongside Him and all the others who died in His service.

Tanith Ghost
08-09-2007, 16:28
Or, get conscripted into the Gaurd and die a pointless, meaningless, and rather painful death in some war no-one will ever know or care about. Compared to being absorbed by the Tau and living a fairly normal, peaceful life and perhaps raise a family with another Gue'seva. Or however the hell you spell it. And human souls (other than Pskyers) are too 'dull' to be consumed by Daemons upon death, or at least too 'dull' to actually feel or understand it.

Besides, the vast majority of the "SERVE TEH EMPEROR OR BURN IN HELL" stuff in the Imperium is propaganda put out by the High Lords of Terra who're just keeping the Emperor in stasis so they can control the Imperium for their own petty, selfish measures anyway...


And maybe all the chaos gods are just big blos of emotion and daemons only warp entities. And maybe it's all a big game.:rolleyes:

You don't get a happy ending with the tau. Besides the fact it means you're actualy so selfish you betrayed your own specis for personal gain, you don't get to raise any family. You get sterilized and used as a buffer to save tau lives. See the Tau end of Dark Crusade for what I mean.

As far as propaganda goes, why should Imperial beliefs be dismissed as such?
Because 'evil is kewl'? There's no reason the Emperor cannot save souls.
Afterall, the power of the God Emperor is considerable.
So yeah, better dead fighting for the Emperor than alive because you backslid from your duty to the Throne.

Jade_Dragon
08-09-2007, 16:31
What if you were a human on Maccrage (sp?) ? I mean you basically fuel the smurf war machine all day. Minus the Tyranid threat, it is probably one of the safest places in the Imperium.

Only place safer is the Segmentum Solar.

I mean honestly I think the safest place in probably the entire WH40K galaxy is Terra. The defenses are practically infinite when you consider how many marines, guard etc would arrive if it was ever attacked.

Rogue 7
08-09-2007, 16:33
If personal gain means "living", then yeah, I'll take it. As for the reliability of the DOW piece, I think thatThis (http://uk.games-workshop.com/tau/background/4/) bit of fluff contradicts what you're saying. The Tau aren't above propaganda, sure, but still, there's a big difference between propaganda and outright lies.

Tanith Ghost
08-09-2007, 16:37
Did you miss the 'sophisticated peice of proaganda' part? Or the 'commentary by a traitor'? Tau propaganda is outright lies.

Rogue 7
08-09-2007, 16:46
And you dismissed the fact that this is the imperium we're talking about, who believe that all xenos should be exterminated? Undoubtedly, they'd refuse to believe that anything good could come from the Tau. It'd be difficult to fake those men, women and children walking around, nor the apparent health and contentness of private whatever-his-name-was. The man said that he still worshipped the God-Emperor, with a 97% chance that he's telling the truth. Dismissing this as outright lies is really an indication that the imperial brainwashing has really taken hold of you.

Iuris
08-09-2007, 16:53
Tanith, some of what you say is true. However, not all is.

Life in the imperium is diverse. Some have it nice, some are born to suffer until death. Just take a look at Necromunda. The difference is just a few miles of vertical distance.

Similar is the destiny of those who join the armed forces. Some have meaningful lives defending humanity. Some, however, are betrayed by the imperium, their lives wasted in pointless gestures that not even the Warp gods would care about.

I the end, while the Imperium is one way for a human to live, it is not necessarily the best one. If you have a nice trade (so are not poor), live in a calm area of the galaxy and keep your nose clean, it's all OK.

In the end, however, the Imperium is bad. It's gripping humanity too tightly. Humanity may not fall, but it is also not going anywhere. It's not growing. And it's doomed to fail, if things don't change.

As for Chaos, those who have shown support simply don't realize the reality of life in service of chaos. It's not all rosy, and the little bit that is is a Slaaneshy tentacle that is looking for a place in you.

As for Tau, compared to some of the worst lives in the Imperium, it's good. Compared to some of the best, it's bad. In the long term, it's doomed. But, it's a continued existence - the Tau are not Xenocidal. Enslaving, yes. Xenocidal, no.

I'm waiting for an imperium renaissance. It has to come, if there is to be a future for mankind.

The pestilent 1
08-09-2007, 17:08
As for Chaos, those who have shown support simply don't realize the reality of life in service of chaos. It's not all rosy, and the little bit that is is a Slaaneshy tentacle that is looking for a place in you.

Not everyone is a sex crazed maniac with no idea what Excess actually means. :eyebrows:

Like I said, Nurgle for me.
It's not about the promise of power, it's not about being weird (Imperium of man? HAH! I'm like WAAAAAYYYY to deep for that man) It's about escaping, it's about having something higher up actually caring (A self destructive care, but care none the less) it's about bringing the rest of existence down to our level, and dancing in stupidly bright carnival masks in the ruins of existence while we remain ever immune.

Ktotwf
08-09-2007, 17:19
What the Imperium would offer that modern life doesn't is an overarching purpose, a cause greater than one's self, that is worth spending effort on.

Ktotwf
08-09-2007, 17:25
I mean honestly I think the safest place in probably the entire WH40K galaxy is Terra. The defenses are practically infinite when you consider how many marines, guard etc would arrive if it was ever attacked.

Amen to that - especially considering that An Emperor a day keeps the demons away.

RampagingRavener
08-09-2007, 17:31
You don't get a happy ending with the tau. Besides the fact it means you're actualy so selfish you betrayed your own specis for personal gain, you don't get to raise any family. You get sterilized and used as a buffer to save tau lives. See the Tau end of Dark Crusade for what I mean.

One isolated case does not equal the majority of all cases. Besides, didn't it just say it was rumoured that humans were going to be steralised? And again, IIRC, these are humans who were absorbed by force, rather than joined out of choice. And as for 'betraying your own species'...let's be honest. In 40k, humanity is every bit as bad as Chaos in it's own way. No, the Tau are far from perfect. They're ruthless expansionists, much of the 'freindly face' they put out is a sham, and they're all basicly controled by the Etherials. But they treat their citizens, Tau or non-Tau, a damn site better than the Imperium does.


As far as propaganda goes, why should Imperial beliefs be dismissed as such?
Because 'evil is kewl'? There's no reason the Emperor cannot save souls.
Afterall, the power of the God Emperor is considerable.
So yeah, better dead fighting for the Emperor than alive because you backslid from your duty to the Throne.

1. Read the Horus Heresy Books. The Emperor did not consider himself a god, he did not belive in gods, and he was more than a little ticked off when the Legio Divinicus first sprang up worshipping him as one.

2. No reason the Emperor can't save souls? No reason he can either.

3. Start of the Inquisitor rulebook, there's a passage of a number of people discussing the fate of the Imperium immediatly after the Emperor was interred upon the throne. The majority of them decide that even though it's likely the Emperor could be brought back, they leave him trapped there because they want to use his 'ascention' to control the Imperium as it is. So you'll excuse me if I don't buy the "holier than thou Imperium" speil.

Ktotwf
08-09-2007, 17:36
One isolated case does not equal the majority of all cases. Besides, didn't it just say it was rumoured that humans were going to be steralised? And again, IIRC, these are humans who were absorbed by force, rather than joined out of choice. And as for 'betraying your own species'...let's be honest. In 40k, humanity is every bit as bad as Chaos in it's own way. No, the Tau are far from perfect, but they treat their citizens, Tau or non-Tau, a damn site better than the Imperium does.

And...they are also doomed to a spectacular death when the Tyranids finally let up, or the Black Crusade fizzles out.





Read the Horus Heresy Books. The Emperor did not consider himself a god, he did not belive in gods, and he was more than a little ticked off when the Legio Divinicus first sprang up worshipping him as one.

Course the Emperor believes in Gods. He knew since 8000 B.C. about the Chaos Gods.

His anti-religious bias was in order to prevent superstition in his followers, and to starve Chaos so to speak.


2. No reason the Emperor can't save souls? No reason he can either.

Well, he is or is in the process of becoming a Warp entity, so...yeah, he can save souls.


3. Start of the Inquisitor rulebook, there's a passage of a number of people discussing the fate of the Imperium immediatly after the Emperor was interred upon the throne. The majority of them decide that even though it's likely the Emperor could be brought back, they leave him trapped there because they want to use his 'ascention' to control the Imperium as it is.

They were afraid of healing him because of how his mind might have been altered, not because they were power hungry *********.

RampagingRavener
08-09-2007, 17:43
And...they are also doomed to a spectacular death when the Tyranids finally let up, or the Black Crusade fizzles out.

Quite so, not doubting that.


Course the Emperor believes in Gods. He knew since 8000 B.C. about the Chaos Gods.

His anti-religious bias was in order to prevent superstition in his followers, and to starve Chaos so to speak.

That's so long as you treat the Starchild as canonical. Personally I'm not overly concerned since I don't play Imperial (or Tau, for that matter) armies. But it's rather old fluff, and I've not seen it referanced any time soon. That's not to say it hasn't been. Just I havn't seen it, and if someone can point out where it has, I'll gladly retract some of what I've said.


Well, he is or is in the process of becoming a Warp entity, so...yeah, he can save souls.

Again...I'd like you to point me to where that's actually stated. And actually 'stated' as in up-to-date Canon.


They were afraid of healing him because of how his mind might have been altered, not because they were power hungry *********.

*shrug* I'll admit that's my bad on that one. I didn't have the Inqy rulebook to hand.

Drasriath
08-09-2007, 21:08
Because I hate them with every fiber of my earthly being and wish nothing but woe and suffering unto them and their kin... Is that a good reason not to be in the Imperium?

Oh, could be that or the psychotic, oppressive, genocidal Theocratic state. That, too...

And of course Eldar babes. That's another good reason. *sagenod*

DantesInferno
08-09-2007, 23:46
They were afraid of healing him because of how his mind might have been altered, not because they were power hungry *********.

Ummm.....You could have at least checked the Inquisitor rulebook before contradicting RR. Here's what the relevant bit actually says:


“The Golden Throne works,” one said, his voice aged and cracked. “The Emperor’s life can be sustained indefinitely.” "His soul lives on?” another inquired, his long, sharp nose protruding from under the lip of his hood. “It is not an empty husk?” “It is not,” the first confirmed. “The Emperor has ascended to the next plane, but the link ’twixt body and spirit remains strong.”

“Then it can be brought back,” suggested the third, a young woman whose flowing white hair spilled from her hood and down to her waist. “The Emperor need not suffer this hideous eternal life in death.”

“We cannot risk such a thing!” the first hissed. “What if the spiritual link were severed? What if the person brought back was not the man we once knew? Changed? News of the Emperor’s… ascension is already widespread. He is being revered as a god already on a hundred worlds. In this time of rebuilding, we need a symbol. The Emperor has shown us the way. Anyway, who would believe the Emperor had returned so soon? It will cause a civil war more devastating than that of the fool Horus, and even now we have yet to start counting the cost of that. No, better that this knowledge remains hidden. When we pass on to join the Emperor, it will die with us.”

“You cannot deny Mankind the Emperor,” a fourth voice, deep and slow, stated firmly.
“He and the empire he has built are Mankind’s only chance of survival.”

The woman and the deep-voiced man both withdrew into the shadows and a moment later the door creaked open, a chill draught causing the candle flame to flit wildly.

“Moriana, Promeus, wait!” the first man called out, but the door slammed shut in answer.

“We cannot let them do this,” the hawknosed man decided.

“No, we cannot,” the first agreed. “We must act quickly, get organised and claim the initiative.”

“It shall be done,” the other concurred.

And if you check out the Thorian Sourcebook, you'll find that it's the first man and the "hawknosed" man (ie. the two who aren't Moriana and Promeus) who set up the Inquisition in its current form. So yeah, there's definitely more than a bit of pragmatism in keeping the Emperor on the Throne: they "need a symbol" and there's the fear of another civil war.

Ktotwf
08-09-2007, 23:49
Well, that little snippet seems to imply that what I and RR said was true.

DantesInferno
08-09-2007, 23:57
Start of the Inquisitor rulebook, there's a passage of a number of people discussing the fate of the Imperium immediatly after the Emperor was interred upon the throne. The majority of them decide that even though it's likely the Emperor could be brought back, they leave him trapped there because they want to use his 'ascention' to control the Imperium as it is. So you'll excuse me if I don't buy the "holier than thou Imperium" speil.


They were afraid of healing him because of how his mind might have been altered, not because they were power hungry *********.

If you'd said "While they were concerned about controlling the Imperium, they were also concerned about how the Emperor's mind may have altered", then yes, you'd have been right. As it was though, you explicitly dismissed the idea that the Emperor's was not brought back to life because the fledgling Inquisition thought it would be better off to use the Emperor's corpse on a throne as a symbol. That was wrong, what was said makes clear that it was a concern, if not the primary concern.

Ktotwf
09-09-2007, 00:01
Yeah, and...I was wrong, it has happened before.

Gdolkin
09-09-2007, 01:14
If Chaos were real, i'd be damned already.. it's not always a conscious informed choice, but i've let myself be consumed by rage, despair, excess and hope.. If it were real, Nurgle and Slaanesh would own me as i am, i'm terrible for self-indulgence and apathy.. if there were such real identifiable probable consequences of indulging your thoughts and emotions and tendencies i'd probably have taken better care of my psyche.. I think the prospect of the powers of Chaos offering the opportunity to REALLY let go of your morality and restraint and embrace your darkness, and for there to be even a remote chance of 'making it work for you' so to speak, is frighteningly appealing. Chaos is Freedom, but there's no freedom without the freedom to take the consequences.. like i say, i can't defend it or justify it, but i reckon i'm weak enough and have the disposition to fall to Nurgle or Slaanesh, but i guess i'd rather it was Slaanesh.. sex and drugs and dancing and excess of emotion and introspection and all that, that's me for sure. The Four Powers are the most interesting aspect of 40k fluff for me, it's great to be made to think about humanity's self-destructiveness and tendency to obsession. Rage, Despair, Pleasure and Hope, who can deny these things? Watch yourselves :)

Born Again
09-09-2007, 01:30
I would take the first opportunity that presented itself to enlist on a Rogue Trader ship and find an alien or non-Imperial human world as far away from "everything" as possible. Alternatively, I would just stay with the RT and live a nomadic life.


Why didn't someone else think of this sooner (sorry if anyone did). Don't side with anyone: Come on, how cool are space pirates! :p

Tehkonrad
09-09-2007, 01:54
join the admech!
who knows maybe after years of perferctr servitude you may even get to put the air freshners in titans :D

El_Machinae
09-09-2007, 02:33
I think the trick would be to go to a backwater planet, pay your taxes, and have your life.

Born Again
09-09-2007, 07:02
join the admech!
who knows maybe after years of perferctr servitude you may even get to put the air freshners in titans :D

The downside being, for imperfect servitude you get turned into an air freshening servitor.:chrome:

dr.oetk3r
09-09-2007, 20:12
The Imperium isn't all bad. I mean, look at Ultramar, it's a nice place to live!

screw the Tau *raises fist"

Chilltouch
09-09-2007, 21:30
Ultramar is a nice place to live, if you ignore the encroaching hive fleets.

Quentin
09-09-2007, 21:48
I can imagine life can vary dramatically as an Imperial citizen depending upon a vast number of factors. You could live the hard-working but peaceful and healthy life of a farmer on an Agriworld, provided you don't get conscripted as a Guardsmen. You could also be forced to work a grueling and dangerous life as a worker on a Forgeworld, developing a multitude of illnesses from chemical fumes, provided you don't befall a deadly industrial accident beforehand. Perhaps you might find yourself on a Fortress world, where you are a member of the Imperial Guard from the moment you are born, with your life being essentially a series of war campaigns.

codicium_aeternum
09-09-2007, 22:27
please.... if i were in the 40k verse, we all know id be an inquisitor... i mean come on...

Lord_Crull
10-09-2007, 01:41
Well it depends, If you where born a grox-farmer then it would suck But if you where born the Son of the High Lord of Terra then you score greatly.

dr.oetk3r
10-09-2007, 05:01
Ultramar is a nice place to live, if you ignore the encroaching hive fleets.

The Tau Empire is a nice place to live, if you ignore the enroaching hive fleets.

:eyebrows:

Iracundus
10-09-2007, 05:07
In the Tau Codex it said the Third Phase was started because the threat of Orks and Tyranids had died down for the time being.

Tanith Ghost
10-09-2007, 09:27
And Ultramar hasn't been under tyrandid threat since the victory over hive fleet behemoth. The tau have the warp rift near them as of 4th edition, and the ever present threat of hive fleets out of the east.

Iracundus
10-09-2007, 12:01
The difference lies in the fact the Tau have free forces to expand because they have no commitments elsewhere. The Orks and Tyranids are currently subsided as threats to the Tau, and most importantly the Imperium has as well since it has stripped its borders to reinforce the Cadian Gate. The Ultramarines as detailed in Codex Tyranids are also unavailable to assist against Leviathan or anywhere else in the "current" time of 40k as they are occupied dealing with an Ork Waagh. All of these other commitments are not likely to resolve anytime soon.

What all this boils down to is a normal average civilian human living in the Tau realm is likely to live peacefully for a good many years at a higher quality of life than his average counterpart in the Imperium.