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mark.
08-09-2007, 14:44
Hello warseer.

Soon I will have to attend a battle against the dwarves, with many shooting units, and I talk about bolt throwers, cannons, organ guns and thunderers. He also has got some combat troops.
The amount of points is 1250.

I myself have got the following:

2 hard knights units of khorne
warhounds
minotaurs
beast herd
furies + exalted


So my main advantage will be speed, my main disadvantage will be the shooting phase.

What can I do to prevent myself from getting my expensive men shot and also a tactic because I am afraid to become charged myself. What should I do best?

Malorian
08-09-2007, 14:52
As long as he isn't on a hill, spend a few extra turns getting closer by staying behind your herd. Then once they are dead or too few to cover you make a break for it.

Other than that there isn't much you can do but try to smash one side and work your way across.

Holy Crap! Manticores!
08-09-2007, 20:45
Tactics:

Pre-game: Set up terrain that blocks LoS (somewhat important to shooting). If you can, take the table side that has the most hills.

In-game: Hide behind terain. This is a double-whammy if you're using Khorne, because it also prevents you from compulsary charges for a turn or two. When you come out of cover, bring as much out of cover at one time and make him decide how to disperse/concentrate firepower.

mark.
09-09-2007, 16:57
Ok thanks Ill try to use terrain and use the herd + hounds for behind my knights and minotaurs.

But what should I do with the flying troops? Should I also wait with them for the rest of my troops if they are emerged from cover, or should I directly fly them towards the back of his gunline (under cover also)

Putty
10-09-2007, 01:10
fly them back of his gunline. make him disperse his fire instead of concentrating them.

make sure u have a good sized unit of flyers. I usually run at least 8 Furies.

I also usually aim my Furies at warmachines because they cause the most casualties (and have almost auto hits), don't need to kill the crew (although that is best), stopping the warmachine from firing, even if its only 2 turns is good enough.

also, there is a cap on how many warmachines your opponent can take, do make sure the dwarf list is legal.

mark.
10-09-2007, 15:48
Ok, I am sure I have enough power in my flying units, because I also have got an exalted deamon with them.

And his list is legal, it has just maximized firepower on what is possible in the rules.

MarcoPollo
11-09-2007, 02:01
Yes use your herds to protect your knights. Also lining up 1" from your deployment zone top protects you from the first round to shooting of small arms fire. 24" is the range of most of their guns, and 24" is the distance between deployment zones. Also, use terrain well.

I find that against gunlines, if you can lower the casualties with the initial movement phases you will be doing well. Also, there comes a time when your troops have to go "over the top" and face a hard volley. When you decide to do this, you should have as many units in striking range as possible. So judge your movement very carefully.

squalie
11-09-2007, 07:57
I play Chaos against Dwarves often. Don't forget that he has to deploy all of his warmachines at the same time. Try to get him to put his machines out by deploying your expendable units first. Concentrate your army on one side of the table (most of the tough stuff). I always deploy on the opposite side of the majority of his machines. I usually deploy my furies on the opposite end of the table. The rest depends on terrain. I always have my fingers crossed, hoping that a cannon blows up, but those darn Dwarf engineers usually do their job. I'm not sure what he'll have at 1250 as we never play that small. Good luck, though -- you'll need it :D

mark.
12-09-2007, 16:08
I can say he will field quite some shooty units, also some longbeards + a thane (which will be quite hard)

Thanks for the help I will try it!

mark.
16-09-2007, 12:20
Im going on the battle wish me luck!

MarcoPollo
17-09-2007, 01:49
Good luck!

Khorghan
18-09-2007, 02:48
yeah your gunna want to block your knights with your warhounds and your minos with your herd, put your champ in the knights maybe and get the furies in fast, what you have chosen is pretty good against shooty dwarves, good luck!

mark.
19-09-2007, 13:30
Good news I won!

I have played 2 battles and won them both :)

The first battle we played a scenario that we need to kill each other's general asap (or the most VP if that doesn't happen), this means I have the advantage as my general is airborne and his thane is only M3.

I'll tell the setup, he had 1 big units of warriors + oath stone thane (hard) and 1 unit of longbeards (also hard) and he had a organ gun + a cannon + thunderers & quarrelers.

Well in the first battle I covered behind terrain like told and when I emerged my beastmen + warhounds were being shot and suffered casualties (nog biggie) and the cannon killed 2 minotaurs :(

But when I was in position, I managed to flank both units, I charged them headlong with knights, and flied the exalted + the leftover beastman into the flank (unfortunately the oath stone denies flanking) in the other unit there were also knights in the flank + a charge of my single left minotaur.

The longbeards did good saves so I was nearly broken even though I hit in the flank, they had a nasty rune doubling their US as well. The warriors could not be flanked so even though I caused casualties, they stood firmly.
Also, my exalted was challenged by his thane, pumped up with armour runes, even though my exalted was 230 points compared to his thane's 65 p, he was losing, because he could not break through the thane's runic armour.

I forgot fear and terror (again) but that is not so good against dwarves anyway ;)

The next round I was lucky, I did some good killing and his longbeards failed the test and fled, the warriors however kept standing even though they received serious punishment.

Now my exalted was down to one wound :o luckily he failed his break test and fled, my knights trampled over, winning the match!


The next battle we played for normal VP and he assumed defending role in some kind of fortress with only narrow openings.
This time I chose to concentrate all my troops on his weaker side, because at one side he had longbeards + thane (yes this time) + organ gun and the other side warriors + some shooting.

I was very lucky as he blew up both his cannon (1/216th chance with engineer!) it could do serious damage, so all my units were intact, except for the beastherd who suffered casualties.

I used warhounds to screen from quarrelers, and even though he got 4 kills, one hound made an exceptional leadership roll and even better, he survived a full round of quarreler shooting the next round! He just wouldn't die!

Anyway even though I had a disadvantage with the narrow opening, the warriors seemed short work for my knights and at the other front, the furies kicked thunderer ass, and my exalted rolled up the organ gun.

Now he only had his prize unit left, longbeards + thane, but it was to slow to move into action and before that the battle was over, another big win!


From the battle I have learned the following:

- field regiments of only 5 knights and with musician + standard bearer (one unit war banner), I used 2 units of 6 knights btw
- the charge of 138pt costing minotaurs is more devasting then that of a knight unit costing double its points =o
- give my exalted the ether blade to challenge characters or stay away from them
- never ever forget that half of my units cause fear/terror


Anyway I am happy with the list, altough it will be weak to some armies, it seems strong against the slow and rigid dwarf army.

Thanks alot for the help guys!

Putty
19-09-2007, 13:47
congrats! u defeated a race that is not easily beaten.

yeah, u gotta remember to make your opponent take the fear and terror tests, them dwarves rolling a 11+ for LD and fleeing will mean you have an better chance to win the game.

do not hesitate to play a few more games against other opposition and see if you could buff your army around some weaknesses.

congrats again! i have yet to win a game with my HoC army xD

Makaber
19-09-2007, 15:19
My friends don't play gunlines, because frankly they're boring, both to play with and against. Thus, the only time I can expect to encounter them is in a tournament. Last year, a gunline won "best" general (to our dismay), so this year we've devised the following tactic:

1) Hide entire army behind terrain.
2) Wait it out.

If he wants his precious VP's, make him work for them.

mark.
20-09-2007, 16:25
Thanks, and I think a gunline is not that good if you have got cheap and fast units running around, except if it is a skaven gunline :cheese: