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View Full Version : Skaven HORDE! (338 models) [2250 tourney list]



happy_doctor
08-09-2007, 17:55
Skaven Warlord,Heavy Armour, Shield
Chieftain, BSB,Sacred standard of the horned rat

25 Clanrats, full command
25 Clanrats, full command
25 Clanrats, full command
25 Clanrats, full command
27 Slaves, musician
27 Slaves, musician
27 Slaves, musician
28 Slaves, musician
23 Stormvermin, full command, War Banner
4 Giant Rat Packs
4 Giant Rat Packs

3 Rat Ogres
3 Rat Ogres
10 Plague monks
10 Plague monks

7 Plague Censer Bearers
7 Plague Censer Bearers

This is what I came up with this evening, pondering how I could put to use nearly 100% of my skaven models in a 2250pt list. As you may have noticed, it has no magic protection at all, no missile troops, just large fast moving blocks of rats! My question is:would it work in a competitive environment??
I chose not to include any of the cheesy stuff(i.e. clan skryre), trying to give other troop choices a go. The battle plan is straightforward: use the slaves as screens,charge baits and supporting flankers, counter cavalry with the rat ogres and the censer bearers, and break units with the stormvermin and the clanrats.(bear in mind that the BSB will probably not go in the stormvermin-in order to avoid eggs-in-one-basket syndrome...)

So, any advice? How do you think this army will fare against tournament armies??What composition scores will it get? Could I actually win, and how easy would it be?

P.S.: The reason the number of slaves is irregular was in order to get the following result:338 models= 2x13x13!! (i know, I need help... :D )

patataman
08-09-2007, 18:07
I think all the options wold be a problem for your army xD

Briohmar
08-09-2007, 18:35
OK, I voted Terror and flyers because they're the only real weakness I see. PCBs kill knights and other heavy hitters dead, Ld 10 in the center pretty much cures terror and fear, you lack magic and or magical defence but who cares, they're still be 250 more rats left after 6 turns of magic missiles. A comet might ruin your day, as could a really nasty plague, or warpath of Gork, but everything else lacks enough umph to really kill enough rats. If you use the checkerboard pattern with the clan rats, slaves and strom vermin, you will likely be very safe from most things, and just go like a rat out of hell towards whatever is in your way and roll over it like a furry tsunami.
For comp, you'll definitely score max, and your opponents will either be so awestruck, or laughing so hard at the number of models on the table they'll forget to employ any tactics, and you should be able to take them paws down.
Seriously, I'd be more afraid to face that army than many a gun line, or magic heavy force because the only way to beat it is to take the whole damned thing on head on and hope you can break through. You can't flank it because it stretches end to end across the board, you can't out number it, because its really big. you can out shoot it and out magic it all day long, but in the end, its still going to hit you with more than twice as many models as you've got on the table, even after three rounds of shooting. And don't worry, Chaos Knights die in droves against PCB's (I should know, its happened to me more than once.)

JonnyTHM
08-09-2007, 19:10
I'd say split your 2 4pack units of giant rats into 4 2 pack units. You don't need anymore ranked up units, just use them as throw aways. Also, units of 10 plague monks seem silly to me, why not go 12 or 14 so you get maximum attacks?

happy_doctor
08-09-2007, 19:23
I'd say split your 2 4pack units of giant rats into 4 2 pack units. You don't need anymore ranked up units, just use them as throw aways.

I thought about it, but I had this one problem: Where are they going to fit in a 6x4 table?? If the feedback is good, I may try this army soon... (with both configurations on the rats)


units of 10 plague monks seem silly to me, why not go 12 or 14 so you get maximum attacks?

i purchased them so as to be able to take 2 units of plague censers! Thus, I've kept them cheap (no xtra hand weapons), and am planning on using them as diverting units.Their frenzy can be a liability in my opinion... Plus, even with xtra hand weapons and with a 7-wide frontage, they will still suffer greatly from any mounted unit that charges them.(remember, they cannot flee the charge...)

Thanks for the feedback guys, it is greatly appreciated! Keep it coming!

@patataman: why do you think so? Care to explain your thought? That's what I need to hear! How would you fave the army? What changes do you think would be appropriate in order to amend some drawbacks??

patataman
08-09-2007, 19:52
Well...al dependi in your oponent nobody wold charge your cencer bearer whit cavarly ant your general have no proteccion.

Armis whit template magic will kill a large amount of minis in 1 turn, the same whit morter, hell blaster, te new empire warmachine, and other warmachin.

Fast cavarly amy only have to wait for the right moment...is dificult but not imposible but agree that is a to much problem.

Thorek only have to hit theslaves to make your army a lot more slow, and if they see your clanrat they aren gona survive a los agains a los of firepower (I know that, I also play skaven xD).

The terro an fyer...I think the same that Briohmar.

you need some real punch (like jezzail (8 is the perfec number xD) and some magic protection ... that is what I think


But I like the feeling and spirit of the army!!! :D I like a lot!!!



PS: SOrry for me English T_T

moose
08-09-2007, 20:06
I like the idea, but it works better in a 1k or 1.5k game i find when you play Clan Pestillens!

Main problem of huge hordes is when everything starts to panic the many units behind them, also there may be no space to panic bakwards but off the table in the first few turns if you're not careful. [if terrain prevents an effective checkerboard]

Although the main problem is getting everything set up and put away - especially at a tournament! But it's a fun non cheesy army at least!

If i was you i'd trade the ogres for some plague monks. Ogres don't hit nearly as hard as the pestilent monks. Also, you need at least a tiny bit of magic defence especially at over 2k. Either get two dispel scroll caddie warlocks or a grey seer.

I chose skaven because i like seeing huge numbers of people[/rats] on the battlefield. My warlord 2250 horde list is: 100 slaves, 100 clanrats, 75 plaguemonks, 50 stormvermin, 20 censers, grey seer...

radbug
09-09-2007, 08:12
Get the storm banner instead of the fear banner to counter some of the gunline armies.

/R

gerrymander61
09-09-2007, 10:48
damn, i was reading to the bottom thinking "why has no one yet suggested the storm banner" and i thought i was so smart and clever, but then radbug shattered that illusion. Yeah, gunline armies would be a big problem so the storm banner would be infinitely more useful than the fear causing one. Also, i wholeheartedly agree with the others in saying that flying terror causers will wreck your army because they can fly about spreading terror without fear of being shot at. Storm banner helps against flyers too, right? So that'll also help

lol, love the reasoning behind your model count. you're awesome.

you might also want some magic defence because there are a good number of spells that force panic tests.

I'd say drop the RO's for jezzails + warlock. Skryre isn't cheesy unless you go all out SAD, and even then, isn't nearly as cheesy or abusive as many other armies. Hell, you could still prob keep that perfect model count you wanted just by adding more slaves because you'd only be taking away 12 models and adding back 9-11.

happy_doctor
09-09-2007, 14:29
OK, updates!
@gerrymander61, radbug: I like your idea! Although the fear-causing banner would help deal with elite infantry/cavalry, maybe it's better to choose the storm banner, seeing as it solves both the flyer and the gunline problem.

As far as the panic issue is concerned, the army has better Ld than most warhammer armies (barring dwarves and lizardmen). Moreover, units come in great numbers, so in order to force a panic check, the opposing army should be able to cause 7-8 casualties to a single unit in a single phase. Even then, the centre of the army has Ld 10!!

I acknowledge the fact that Rat ogres can be a liability, due to their low Ld-value, I would however like to try them out in this list. I believe that, backed up by a ranked unit, they can break any unit, from knights to elite infantry!

Jezzails: I see their uses, but I don;t think they are indispensible...I could fit in a unit of 6, though... What I'm afraid of, however, is that their effectiveness will be reduced by the use of the Storm Banner..What do you people think??

Giant Rat packs: I've been thinking...If I split them into 4 smaller units, wouldn't these units be easy targets to cause panic tests? They haven't got the "expendable" rule, and as such can cause panic tests to the units they flee through!

NEW ARMY LIST

Skaven Warlord,Heavy Armour, Shield, Halberd
Chieftain, BSB,Storm Banner

25 Clanrats, full command
25 Clanrats, full command
25 Clanrats, full command
25 Clanrats, full command
27 Slaves, musician
27 Slaves, musician
27 Slaves, musician
27 Slaves, musician
24 Stormvermin, full command, War Banner
4 Giant Rat Packs
4 Giant Rat Packs

4 Rat Ogres
6 Jezzails
10 Plague monks
10 Plague monks

7 Plague Censer Bearers
7 Plague Censer Bearers

Better, Worse and Why????

Kerill
09-09-2007, 15:31
I would probably drop the stormvermin- they are the number 1 target for your opponent just by virtue of their cost. Either give them the umbranner or dump them altogether.

Missile magnet and panic spreader 2 is the rat ogres- what will they actually do? They aren't hard hitting enough to kill anything. 1 with a handler I could see to add a little bit of countercharge clout, or 2 to negate ranks but thats about it.

fubukii
09-09-2007, 17:05
Drop all of the rat ogres, you have no need for them add some warlocks and give your bsb the storm banner instead you have no shooting, might as well make enemy shooting suck vs you.


Make the slaves 25 man with musician, this makes them somewhat hard to panic, but not to many pts
MAke the clanrats 29-30 strong THis MAkes them insanely hard to panic and keeps your ranks forever, great for out numberinG!
Im not a fan of the storm vermin, you could drop for 25 clanrats and 25 slaves? if you like them keep em i just think they a lil pricey, may be worth it with a Storm banner in the army though!

gerrymander61
09-09-2007, 22:26
the thing with smaller units of giant rats is again, to make other units panic it's 7 casualites in one round, which isn't impossible, but is very unlikely since it's such a low priority target. I suppose they could kill magic number 2 and have the remaining US 5 unit running around but again, unlikely not just by numbers but more in that the enemy has many, much bigger fish to fry.

rexim
10-09-2007, 17:08
why no unite of poisioned wind globadierds?

I would use as many unites of them as possible with a modell count of 3, thy uselly takes their points only on the stand and shoot, and sucha samll unite is perfect, low us no panic and they can be used so that u know were everything is deployed before you deploy your own unites.

I would really try to get a warlock with 2 scrolls to help u, and allways try to take out magicans early.

I can't really se what this list could do against a MoT list with a dragon.

mightygnoblar
10-09-2007, 20:49
i really think this list is a strong design as theres just sooo many rats, i can see many lists that will break against this one epecially gunlines as skaven are fast and you should still outnumber 2:1 when you get there
the only problem you may have is against wood elves, their shooting is quite dangerous and their units can wipe you out on sheer kills, and with good manipultion of tree sing they can really use your numbers against you, so magic defence would probly be prudent