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logosloki
11-09-2007, 05:50
I thought maybe that with the new chaos codex removing the psi defence of khorne (kharn not included) that they would finally retcon/bring forward/make up psykers of khorne. aparently though they haven't :(.

So what I want to know, as a hypothetical question, what sort of psykers would khorne have gamewise? would they 'buff' up other khornate/chaos troops or would they use their connection to the warp to amplify themselves.

I have included a poll but would like peoples view points.

Negrodamus
11-09-2007, 05:52
they wouldn't have them at all.

Hulkster
11-09-2007, 06:01
they would not have any psykers

none

ever

Raven1
11-09-2007, 06:04
Khorne hates pyskers always has and always will!

Griffin
11-09-2007, 06:05
No, not ever.

Khaine's Messenger
11-09-2007, 06:08
This is one of those fine points where you have to ask yourself how the game mechanics and the background interface. Various followers of Khorne can have and have had unique powers that are equivalent in effect to various buffs or thematic reality-altering abilities. But...how much of that is just the presence of the warp rippling outwards like the taint it normally is, and how much of that is really a "power"? No, Khorne does not grant magical powers, and the blood of sorcerers delights him so. I would rather represent such things mechanically without having to involve the rules for psychic powers, because those might give the wrong impression entirely....

Brimstone
11-09-2007, 06:17
Khorne has never had psykers and never should.

Hellebore
11-09-2007, 06:46
A small problem with the lack of khornate psykers is the inability to summon daemons.

It requires a summoning ritual to actually bring daemons from the warp, which means that either an unaligned sorceror does it, or somehow khornate daemons just 'pop' into existence....

Hellebore

BDJV
11-09-2007, 06:51
A small problem with the lack of khornate psykers is the inability to summon daemons.

It requires a summoning ritual to actually bring daemons from the warp, which means that either an unaligned sorceror does it, or somehow khornate daemons just 'pop' into existence....

Hellebore

We can always count on you Hellebore to use common sense to dazzle the masses and bring on a good discussion! :evilgrin:

I could have sworn there was a blurb or maybe an entry for Khornate psykers in Slaves of Darkness. I could be wrong though. It was a long time ago and I'm too lazy to look it up right now. :p

Negrodamus
11-09-2007, 06:57
A small problem with the lack of khornate psykers is the inability to summon daemons.

It requires a summoning ritual to actually bring daemons from the warp, which means that either an unaligned sorceror does it, or somehow khornate daemons just 'pop' into existence....

Hellebore

create enough violence and they tend to just show up, kinda like having enough alcohol will cause 'those' guys to just appear at a party.

Hellebore
11-09-2007, 07:05
create enough violence and they tend to just show up, kinda like having enough alcohol will cause 'those' guys to just appear at a party.

Well, that can't be entirely true, otherwise EVERY battlefield would be infested with the daemons of khorne...

It's not like you average supervillian's machinations cause the spontanous appearance of flamers and horrors in his bath tub whilst contemplating galactic dominion:p

Hellebore

inquisitor solarris
11-09-2007, 07:08
how could khorne have psykerswithout screaming forward and needing to focus on the warp another thing is that you know khorne hates psykers because karn the betrayer has blessings of the blood god which makes him to force weapons

Zazz
11-09-2007, 07:15
i thought it was that Khorne hated magic and sorcery and long range wussiness

are force weapons banned in Khornate armies?

When Black Roses Bloom
11-09-2007, 07:37
Khorne does not need sorcerers. Khorne needs blood for he is the Blood God. Khorne needs skulls for his skull throne.

As for the "tend to appear where there is an excess of violence" the music of the chainaxe, the blood that stains the earth and the heads that are massed in piles or as trophies in pikes and belts are enough summoning rituals by themselves.

Hellebore
11-09-2007, 07:42
Khorne does not need sorcerers. Khorne needs blood for he is the Blood God. Khorne needs skulls for his skull throne.

As for the "tend to appear where there is an excess of violence" the music of the chainaxe, the blood that stains the earth and the heads that are massed in piles or as trophies in pikes and belts are enough summoning rituals by themselves.

Yes, but this is 40k. That sort of thing happens at birthday parties and religious gatherings, the HARD CORE stuff happens on the battlefield.:evilgrin:

But like I said, daemons don't just pop into existence whenever a gathering of people with similar intrests happens.

Otherwise Tzeentchian daemons would pop right into the Senatorum Imperialis during a debate, Nurgle daemons would appear in the plague apothecaria, and slanneshi daemons would be joining patrons at Madame Lovejoy's Pleasure Palace when the local enforcers are off duty...

Hellebore

Master Jeridian
11-09-2007, 07:43
Thing is the Khorne Berserkers are killing in Khorne's name, uttering his war chants and prayers.
You don't have to be a psyker to summon Daemons, you have to know the incantations and commit the acts that entice them.

If this were not true, only Sorcerors would summon Daemons in the Codex.

As for Khorne never using psykers? Perhaps, but there was a time when Khorne wasn't a cartoony 'hulk smash, hulk bash' caricature, when Khorne considered blood and skulls for any violence, including ranged, disciplined or calculated.

Just that the Gods much like the rest of 40k where considered to complex and so needed to be 'simplified'.

Calden
11-09-2007, 07:44
I would imagine that the bloodletting the followers of Khorne do is usually enough to have them emerge from the warp. If I remember rightly, back in 2nd Ed you actually had to shore up enough summoning points to bring daemons in, and Khornate summoning points were earned through close combat kills.

As for Khornate psykers, no way. The background is pretty damned strict on this. The only "sorcery" Khorne accepts is ranged weapons.

Lastie
11-09-2007, 07:45
Ah, a controversial fluff discussion. How I do love these when they eventually show up (even better when they don't mention Primarchs!!).

Being somewhat of a fluff heretic myself (I have a corrupted Grey Knight in the making, but that's a debate for another thread where we can pummel each other to death with opinion and hardback books) I've pondered on the existance of Khorne psykers and have come to the following conclusion: it's possible, but most likely if the psyker has latent abilities, possibly done subconsciously (as you and I would breathe).

Not consciously using psychic abilities might be forgivable in Khorne's eye if the champion in question was a fine provider of blood and skulls for the Blood God's home decor. After all, they are Gods of Chaos after all and are subject to whim and continuously changing favour.

So, a Champion of Khorne who unknowingly channels his latent psychic abilities into boosting his muscles and reflexes when he enters a killing frenzy (say a psychic version of the Rage ability of D&D Barbarians) could serve quite happily as a Khornate warrior despite being a psyker. Then one day he could be turned into a spawn. Such is life (of chaos).

Hellebore
11-09-2007, 07:47
Thing is the Khorne Berserkers are killing in Khorne's name, uttering his war chants and prayers.
You don't have to be a psyker to summon Daemons, you have to know the incantations and commit the acts that entice them.

If this were not true, only Sorcerors would summon Daemons in the Codex.

As for Khorne never using psykers? Perhaps, but there was a time when Khorne wasn't a cartoony 'hulk smash, hulk bash' caricature, when Khorne considered blood and skulls for any violence, including ranged, disciplined or calculated.

Just that the Gods much like the rest of 40k where considered to complex and so needed to be 'simplified'.

Well, an incantation doesn't mean anything unless you've got power to back it up. Who teaches these berserkers the incantations?

Although they aren't the same, Warhammer Fantasy has the same problem - ALL daemons must be summoned, and only sorcerers can summon them.

A psyker chanting KILL!MAIM!BURN! and working themselves into a frenzy is MUCH more likely to summon a daemon than a bloodsoaked berserker.

One WISHES things would happen, and other MAKES them happen.

EDIT: To clarify, ALL damons are warp entities, and psykers manipulate the warp. The capacity to manipulate warp energy DEFINES a psyker. So, if anyone can manipulate the warp to materialise warp entities, they MUST be psychic.



Hellebore

Negrodamus
11-09-2007, 07:53
how could khorne have psykerswithout screaming forward and needing to focus on the warp another thing is that you know khorne hates psykers because karn the betrayer has blessings of the blood god which makes him to force weapons

You probably need icons and people going "LOL MORE SKULLS FOR KHORNE" too

Master Jeridian
11-09-2007, 07:57
Well the entire human race in 40k has latent psychic abilities- except Null's.


Well, an incantation doesn't mean anything unless you've got power to back it up. Who teaches these berserkers the incantations?

Yeah, that power is forged by committing acts that favour the Gods. For Khorne it's bloodletting- it draws Daemons towards the releasing of souls.


A psyker chanting KILL!MAIM!BURN! and working themselves into a frenzy is MUCH more likely to summon a daemon than a bloodsoaked berserker.

One WISHES things would happen, and other MAKES them happen.

We must be reading different background then, numerous stories have non-psykers (latent psykers) summoning Daemons...usually by accident (reading forbidden books).

So some psyker kid getting angry may summon Daemons, but a Berserker who worships Khorne every day, who has his symbols etched into his skin, who commits acts of indiscriminate violence and murder, who has been blessed by his God....may draw the attention of Daemons.

Calden
11-09-2007, 08:05
EDIT: To clarify, ALL damons are warp entities, and psykers manipulate the warp. The capacity to manipulate warp energy DEFINES a psyker. So, if anyone can manipulate the warp to materialise warp entities, they MUST be psychic.

Well yes and no Hell. All humans in 40k (Well nearly all), have a presence in the warp. Their soul possibly. This link to the warp is what led, and still leads to, the creation of warp entities. The largest example being the chaos gods themselves. All humans have a psychic presence in the warp, and all of them influence it in some way or another through their actions.

Particularly large gatherings of similar emotions can lead to creatures in the warp that like that particular emotion to gather around that emotion. Should the depth of feeling become so strong, and so empasioned then it can lead to the warp and real space coming into contact. The people causing this dont necessarily need to be psychics themselves, but they DO need to have a psychic presence in the warp.

The biggest example of this kind of event is the Eye of Terror of course, where such a large concentration of haedonism led to the creation of the god Slaanesh and the warp/real space crossover that exists in the 40k universe today.

You could however argue that humanity in 40k is on the verge of becomming a psychic species though, and that potentially all humans could become psykers, much like the Eldar. :)

Reaver83
11-09-2007, 08:17
the only good psyker is a dead psyker! (preferably with it's skull removed a blood spilled)

Nkari
11-09-2007, 08:19
What calden said.. :P

And no, there wont ever be a psycher with the mark of khorne..

Hellebore
11-09-2007, 08:24
Well yes and no Hell. All humans in 40k (Well nearly all), have a presence in the warp. Their soul possibly. This link to the warp is what led, and still leads to, the creation of warp entities. The largest example being the chaos gods themselves. All humans have a psychic presence in the warp, and all of them influence it in some way or another through their actions.

Particularly large gatherings of similar emotions can lead to creatures in the warp that like that particular emotion to gather around that emotion. Should the depth of feeling become so strong, and so empasioned then it can lead to the warp and real space coming into contact. The people causing this dont necessarily need to be psychics themselves, but they DO need to have a psychic presence in the warp.

The biggest example of this kind of event is the Eye of Terror of course, where such a large concentration of haedonism led to the creation of the god Slaanesh and the warp/real space crossover that exists in the 40k universe today.

You could however argue that humanity in 40k is on the verge of becomming a psychic species though, and that potentially all humans could become psykers, much like the Eldar. :)

With regards to the eldar, every single one is psychic. They may not be able to shoot you with warp lightning, but that's because they don't know how, not because they can't.

See, obviously khorne daemons DO appear to fight without the use of psykers, but it's not easy to see how.

So yes they obviously do, but no I can't see how.

As I said, I can't imagine daemonettes popping into existence whenever some bored nobleman has an orgy.

Daemons manifesting in reality is RARE and special event - if something that mundane produced it, we should be seeing way more of them than we do...

Hellebore

Tehkonrad
11-09-2007, 08:27
too contentiuos... so much argument....
virtual violence... demons appearing... you fool hellebore
do not argue the obvious... especially
with logic
noooo...

Tzargotha
11-09-2007, 08:28
I remember seeing a pic of an old Chaos Sorceror with weird armour in Slaves to Darkness and a Khorne symbol on it. But overall Khorne has never used Pyskers and never will, martial honour is Khornes forte, but will ally with them if needs be! I also vaguely remember reading somthing that old Khorne Sorcerors/pyskers use there powers at their own risk (of being turned on, or simply being hunted by Khornes hunters!)...

For the record, the souls of magic users get chained to Khornes throne and are damned to make the items Khornes minions use...

Brother Loki
11-09-2007, 08:30
You need psykers to navigate ships, communicate over long distances, pretty much do anything on an interstellar scale in 40k. If the world Eaters and other Khornate nutters have no psykers, they're no threat to anyone, since they can't get out of the Eye of Terror. Clearly this isn't the case. To be a functioning army on anything other than a local level in 40k you need psykers (or ancient necron uber-tech).

I think it far more likely that Khorne's followers make use of slave psykers or something similar. The Blood Pact certainly make extensive use of psykers for battlefield communications and to attack enemy morale - often hardwired as servitors into vehicles.

pookie
11-09-2007, 08:40
Personally i would assume anyone who could read an incantation wether psykic or not would be able to summon the Daemons, unless im wrong Kyrill Sindermann did this in the HH books, ( as far as i know he had no Psykic powers?)

although i do enjoy these fluff debates,

to answer the OP question, they shouldnt ever have Pskers, but should still have Anti Psyker type wargear ( unless they still have it, ive not read the new dex yet) ie Collar of Khorne etc.

Lothlanathorian
11-09-2007, 08:44
As the one and only Tech-Priest of Khorne, I'm going to cast my vote in with no. I think that they can have daemonic powers like in the soon-to-be-obsolete C:CSM, but not ACTUAL psychic powers. As for the daemon summoning, I believe it is more to do with saying the right words with the proper amount of sacrifices made. It might be considered sorcery, but, well, shut up. There, I went there. Shut up. You are making me think I despise you for it. Damn it.


OH!!! And I hope no one forgets that sorcery is not being a psyker!! Magic is different than mental-super-powers!!!

El_Phen
11-09-2007, 08:49
Khorne does not need sorcerers. Khorne needs blood for he is the Blood God. Khorne needs skulls for his skull throne.

As for the "tend to appear where there is an excess of violence" the music of the chainaxe, the blood that stains the earth and the heads that are massed in piles or as trophies in pikes and belts are enough summoning rituals by themselves.


Yes, but this is 40k. That sort of thing happens at birthday parties and religious gatherings, the HARD CORE stuff happens on the battlefield.:evilgrin:Hellebore

What the HELL type of birthday party have YOU been to!? (I don't want to even THINK about those religious practices):cool:

Supremearchmarshal
11-09-2007, 08:57
In Slaves to Darkness Khorne followers had thingies called Bloodstones, which they used to summon daemons quickly. Otherwise all Daemons were always summoned by rituals (before or during battle). Aren't summoning rituals magic?

Now that I think of it, since Realms of Chaos Khorne did have magic items, which in turn begs the question how do you make magic items without magic???

As for them having powers in 40k, no. The magic/psyonics they have should be limited to summoning rituals and daemonic/chaotic weapons and armour.

Adra
11-09-2007, 09:24
Yeah i bet they dont need psykers at all. A ritual yes, but not one involving psykers. The calling forth for deamons in khornes name and a scarifice should do it. Eight sons killed with eight blades from the eight...blah blah blah...so on

dcikgyurt
11-09-2007, 10:50
Khorne do have and use psychers, especially for summoning.

Who else do you think they sacrifice to entice Daemons to aid them? :D

dogofthedamned
11-09-2007, 11:19
Seems to me that in the GW novels, daemons do seem to be able to pop up when ever they please. I think the call of hundreds of lives being brutally extinguished is enough of a calling to attract the attention of any passing lesser Daemons of Khorne.

What I've always wondered is how they get the skulls to Khorne for his throne? Is there a huge cargo ship that turns up after a battle that then ships all the heads of the dead back to the warp?

Hellebore
11-09-2007, 11:24
Er if daemons had an easy time appearing in realspace they would have so many problems STAYING in it. Daemons are continuously struggling to remain stably in realspace. The less warp energy there is to draw on the weaker they are.

As for skulls, you answered your own question. If the abstract act of killing someone can manifest a daemon, then the abstract act of proclaiming a skull 'for' khorne gives him one.

Hellebore

FigureFour
11-09-2007, 11:53
Thing is the Khorne Berserkers are killing in Khorne's name, uttering his war chants and prayers.
You don't have to be a psyker to summon Daemons, you have to know the incantations and commit the acts that entice them.

I don't know about you, but a chant or incantation that summons daemons sure sounds like sorcery to me.


OH!!! And I hope no one forgets that sorcery is not being a psyker!! Magic is different than mental-super-powers!!!

No it's not. "Sorcery" is what the Emperor calls psychic powers he doesn't like. Otherwise why the hell would all sorcerers be psychic and use psychic powers?

Calden
11-09-2007, 11:57
There's probably something in the old 2nd Ed codex about the actual act of summoning....I'll try and remember to look into it when I get in from work :)

Karnesdorff
11-09-2007, 12:48
No it's not. "Sorcery" is what the Emperor calls psychic powers he doesn't like. Otherwise why the hell would all sorcerers be psychic and use psychic powers?

There is a background difference between Sorcery and Psychic powers, Psychic powers are the result of a psyker using warp energy to enforce their will upon reality through their own power and skill, Sorcery on the other hand is something that either has to be bargained for or is gained through something that has energy bound into it, the sorceror is a conduit for the power of...other things. Which is why the Emperor banned it's use, since it was closer to daemonology than psychic ability. Game wise it's the same as being a psyker but the source is different.

As to Khorne Sorcerors, no. I would suggest the Khornate daemon summoning rituals are rituals where the words and sacrifices have power in themselves (bringing the attention of Khornate daemons, weakening the Warp/Realspace barrier etc.), so you don't need to be a psyker to use them. Though I would imagine using a psyker as a sacrifice would help the ritual along, since their more likely to be seen in the warp by the daemons your calling on, that's pretty much as far as psykers go as far as Khorne goes.

Once you've got the daemons, well it's just a case of keeping them fuelled with worship and blood so they can stick around until you can get them to do what you want.

K.

Vesica
11-09-2007, 15:44
I have said none, but if say an undivided psyker was with a khorne force i think he would more than likely be for defence against other psykers.

UncleCrazy
11-09-2007, 15:51
The WE have Demons to drive there ships.

Damien 1427
11-09-2007, 17:01
I could have sworn there was a blurb or maybe an entry for Khornate psykers in Slaves of Darkness. I could be wrong though. It was a long time ago and I'm too lazy to look it up right now. :p

Like other Renegades, WE could take Librarians. The fluff contrivance was that they were record-keepers and battlefield communicators, back when some warbands still have a vestiege of sanity. Even then they lived on a knife-edge. Regardless, they existed and to me at least, they're still around.

Actual battle-psykers, though? No.

A World Eater Librarian/Sorceror could be represented by a Chaos Sorceror with Warptime. Maybe drag up the old daemon-infighting rules to have Khornate Daemons take a Leadership test if they're in charge range of him, lest they go for him instead of the enemy.

The pestilent 1
11-09-2007, 17:03
Uhhh, surely by the fluff of old Khorne a battle psycher (IE: One that uses his powers to enhance himself and not chuck fireballs at everyone) would be fine?

Enhancing your own power in combat doesn't seem to contradict Khornes Ethos at all.

Polonius
11-09-2007, 17:17
I think the only problem here is in confusion with labels. Khorne, like all the chaos gods, grants gifts to his followers. these can be physical mutations, enhanced armor, ridiculous strength, etc. Unlike the other gods, Khorne does not grant so called "sorcery," the ability to manipulate matter with only the mind.

Other gods, having no such hatred for eggheads, seem to grant plenty of these sorcerous powers to their followers. Tzeentch, being really big into them, allows mere squad leaders to have powerful sorcery.

By drawing the distinction, it becomes pretty easy to see that a Khorne champion could get the ability to summon bloodletters (which are only useful in war, BTW), but would not be a "sorcerer" per se.

Slaaneshi Slave
11-09-2007, 17:39
Khorne has ALWAYS had psychers, they just don't use their powers. There are World Eater Librarians, they simply don't use their powers. They still have them, they simply forsake them. Source: Realms of Chaos.

Mr Feral
11-09-2007, 19:03
A small problem with the lack of khornate psykers is the inability to summon daemons.

It requires a summoning ritual to actually bring daemons from the warp, which means that either an unaligned sorceror does it, or somehow khornate daemons just 'pop' into existence....

Hellebore

Either that or lots of cultist sacrafice themselves. Instant bloodshed.

Eldarion
11-09-2007, 19:09
None. Unless your making a Pre-heracy army.

W0lf
11-09-2007, 19:32
Yeah add khorne pyskers right after you remove Tzeentch ones and make Tzeentch the ultimate CC army... [/end.sarcasm]

just no.

Slaaneshi Slave
11-09-2007, 20:10
Yeah add khorne pyskers right after you remove Tzeentch ones and make Tzeentch the ultimate CC army... [/end.sarcasm]

just no.

You might like to explain yourself there, as amongst Khorns followers are psychers according to the background material.

boogle
11-09-2007, 20:49
The World Eaters slaughtered all of their Librarians, and Khorne dislikes Sorcery, so i'm afraid you're somewhat stuck

Slaaneshi Slave
11-09-2007, 20:53
The World Eaters Librarians are book keepers who keep track of the dead in Khornes name (on top of their Staff duties off the battlefield), and Sorcerers in Khornes service simply do not use their sorcery.

boogle
11-09-2007, 21:00
Where did you find this out? i was under the impression that the sacrifice of the Librarians was the final pact between Angron and Khorne

Hulkster
11-09-2007, 21:11
TBH according to other fluff the pre-heresey armies had no psykers

why would khorn libarians be psykers

boogle
11-09-2007, 21:15
Intersting point Hulkster, i'm still sure that i'v read somewhere that Khorne sacrificed their Librarians, whether psykers or not

Slaaneshi Slave
11-09-2007, 21:20
Why would they sacrifice all of them? A chapter can't operate without SOME Staff.

bertcom1
11-09-2007, 21:31
Index Astartes III - article on the World Eaters.

blah blah... the blood rituals of the legion became an even more important part of the World Eaters daily lives, mighty oceans of blood filled in his (Khornes) praise.

Rituals, therefore, look to be the means used to gain Khornes favour and also to summon daemons.

Mass slaughter won't cause Bloodletters to appear, but mass slaughter done in the appropriate fashion would. Possibly all it requires is to shout "For Khorne", every time you kill something.

Adra
11-09-2007, 21:40
....Sorcerers in Khornes service simply do not use their sorcery.

Why not?...cos Khorne hates filthy magiks and would cut them down if his name was on the lips of a psykers in any way but in terror. Having psykers who dont use their power is as good as not having them. If you dont use it, you lose it ;)

boogle
11-09-2007, 21:44
Why would they sacrifice all of them? A chapter can't operate without SOME Staff.

This is the World Eaters we are talking about here, not the most Cohesive of Chapters at the best of times especially lead by Angry Ron

freebooter
11-09-2007, 21:57
I actually like the idea of Khorne Psykers to be powerful heroes in their own right who can call upon the powers of Khorne to buff themselves up.
I don't play Khorne however so I don't have the anti-psy bias that most of you seem to have. It looks like Khorne players are drawn to the old list through a blood lust and hatred of psykers.

khorne808
12-09-2007, 02:21
dude dont ask that question

dcikgyurt
12-09-2007, 02:28
If khorne psyker simply buffed themselves up, surely that could be represented by the mark of khorne. +1A is a decent buff. If you want to fluff it that way (possibly adding a daemon weapon and some more personal fluff) then I think that would be appropriate.

Stad
12-09-2007, 02:55
Pskers would rock, buy one and when you sacrifice it, all your troops get +1 str and inv save or something!

Lothlanathorian
12-09-2007, 04:22
I don't know about you, but a chant or incantation that summons daemons sure sounds like sorcery to me.



No it's not. "Sorcery" is what the Emperor calls psychic powers he doesn't like. Otherwise why the hell would all sorcerers be psychic and use psychic powers?



And since not all sorcerers are psykers, I vote me ftw.

Hellebore
12-09-2007, 04:36
And since not all sorcerers are psykers, I vote me ftw.

They both tap the warp and use warp energy to manifest power in realspace.

The difference comes in HOW they get the warp energy, but a sorcerer is a TYPE of psyker, not something completely different.

All sorcerers are psykers but not all psykers are sorcerers.

Hellebore

Nurglitch
12-09-2007, 05:36
Something like the Acts of Faith I'd imagine. The magic of religion.

The Khornate lot are opposed to sorcery since sorcery is an act of creation, of forging new agreements to channel the powers of daemons in their stead. Invoking the favour of God, on the other hand, is straightforwardly pious.

Where the Soritas have the three ritual weapons of bolter, flamer, and melta, the Word Eaters have the bolter, flamer, and axe. It's preferable to get in close and waste the unbelievers, heretics, witches, sorcerors, idolators, health-care providers, and rival orders personally as an act of ritual violence. A tactical nuke will do in a pinch. This senseless violence is not enjoyable (Slaaneshian heresy), or part of some greater plan (Tzeentchian heresy), or done out of despair (Nurglian heresy). It's for the sake of the deeply held religious conviction that, insofar as possible, every living thing in the universe needs killing.

I think it coheres nicely with the World Eater creed advertised in the Horus Heresy novels, always being ready to go further ("be more hard-core") than the enemy. In the second edition of Epic: Space Marine Khornate Daemon Engines received a bonus if the Chaos side was winning. Khorne favours the pious, and the pious in 40k don't stint on the board with a nail in it.

Also it's kind of like having a magical leprechaun on Kharn's shoulder urging him to do things, except the leprechaun is God.

Rioghan Murchadha
12-09-2007, 05:52
None. Unless your making a Pre-heracy army.

That would be a pre-council of Nikea army. The council was where the Primarchs and the Emperor argued about the manifestation of psykers in the space marine legions, and where it was decided to nurture, and train the Space Marine psykers and form what is now the SM Librarium. This obviously happened when Magnus and the Emperor were still on speaking terms, so yes, you can have a pre-heresy SM force with librarians in it... (Otherwise how would Ahriman be the "Chief Librarian" of the Thousand Sons?)

Hulkster
12-09-2007, 06:05
because the thousand sons ignored the emps orders not to have psykers in there ranks and to ignore all of the old teachings on sorcery,

If you read the HH novels, which are cannon, and if you read the DA novel (the original one by Gav Thorpe), you will see that psykers were added after the heresey. Thus the libarians of old were not psykers/socerers.

Thereofre there is no reason for WE to have them.

Delicious Soy
12-09-2007, 06:18
Wouldn't khorne psyker really be something of a shaman? Open Khornate worship (i.e none of this halfway 'warrior honour lodge' crap) would involve ritual, blood letting, ritual scarring. Wouldn't there be someone who annoints warriors to slay in the name Khorne and guide them in their ritual slaughter on the battlefield? Maybe they wouldn't be sorcerers in the common sense but more of a priest, it seems the actual summoning is dependent on slaughter.

The only other option is a more undivided sorcery one, but then I guess a khonate daemon would be happily summoned by a sorcerer if it meant getting all killy on vulnerable mortals.

Supremearchmarshal
12-09-2007, 11:01
If you read the HH novels, which are cannon, and if you read the DA novel (the original one by Gav Thorpe), you will see that psykers were added after the heresey. Thus the libarians of old were not psykers/socerers.

Thereofre there is no reason for WE to have them.

True, their job was bookkeeping, logistics and similar. The WE don't really have a need for that, except at the most basic level and there is certainly no reason for any surviving librarians to be psykers. More likely they became bloodthirsty madmen and forgot all about their duties except maybe to count the number of skulls their warband has collected...

let_the_galaxy_burn
12-09-2007, 14:45
Dude, just............ no.
Khornes hatred of psykers is part of what makes Khorne, well Khorne. Its part of what flavours Khorne armies, and what, especially with the way GW are pushing the new sorcerer/terminator model, will help make Khornate armies stand out from the crowd. Yeah ok you guessed it, i'm a World Eaters player, for about 8 years, i'm the guy that takes 8 strong squads, shuns other cults and wonders why everyone is bothered about the loss of infiltrate.
Sure i'm gonna get clubbed by the triple threat of random logic, ancient obscure fluff and plain old stubborness but there, i went and said it.
Khorne= blood and death, martial skill, if you want nancy psychic powers go play with a bunch of pointy ears and leave the real warriors to sharpen their axes.

Meathook
12-09-2007, 15:07
While the idea of psykers of Khorne would be pretty sweet rules wise, I prefer to go with the "less chatter, more splatter" idea of things and simply have the option to give asp. champions a kind of "spur the madmen on idea." Kinda like giving them furious charge vet skill like I hear they got in the new book.

Count it as a vet skill or just religious psycho babble that is driving them to higher and higher acts of Khornate worship ("axein' your face real good.") I'm just happy to see that they got a broader choice of units and options.

On a second note, doesn't the WE legion have a planet in the Eye of Terror? As that is pretty much in the warp itself, couldn't any icons that the Khornate followers use have bound the demons who live and roam there to them. The icon bearer simply goes out for a walk, finds some red buddies, says hey, you wanna come with me in my magic pretty stick and kill some people some where else. And as all demons are very akin to surfin' doods they said heck yah and jumped on in.

I'm sure it happened something along those lines. Maybe just a possible option to explain it.

FigureFour
12-09-2007, 16:20
I find it interesting that everyone jumps on the "Khorne hates psykers" bandwagon while, if I remember correctly, the rulebook says Khorne DISTRUSTS psykers. There's a difference.

Personally I don't see a problem with a psyker in a Khornate army, as long as all the leaders are wearing their Collars.

Lindworm
12-09-2007, 16:45
I think khorne doesn't like magic. But that said, I would imagine a khorne psycher or sorts to be someone who just rolls to see if he stares at an enemy hard enough - and they explode. Angry psychers! Nah! That'd suit the back story very well.

"Gharnesh the Angry-Stare"

Grazzy
12-09-2007, 16:50
Khorne would not be khorne if they used psychers. It is something that makes them different.

Slaaneshi Slave
12-09-2007, 20:19
Khorne has no reason to hate psychers, really, since Khorne is one of the most powerful psychers ever to exist himself.

Nurglitch
12-09-2007, 20:40
Yeah right, 'cause there's no such thing as a hypocritical closet-case. No sir.

The Muffin Man
12-09-2007, 21:10
errr can someome delete this

squiggoth
12-09-2007, 22:53
Well ... in background and sourcebooks there have been a few mentionings of Khornate "pseudo-wizards" and daemon summonings.

* In Blades of Chaos (or Claws of Chaos, or whatever the trilogy is called) the main character is a Khorne warlord who uses an Undivided shaman to summon his Bloodletters whenever he needs them.
* In Liber Chaotica: Khorne, there's a chapter about warrior-priests of Khorne, who are basically wandering hermits who tend to Khornate shrines and perform "blessings". LB:K also mentions Bloodstones, the summon-instant-daemons artefacts of Khorne.

I can very well see how a Khornate warband might include a wizard/psyker/Khornate warrior priest to suit their needs (ie summon daemons) when their bloodstone stash runs out. A weedy wizard would probably get sacrificed to Khorne at the first opportunity - as soon as the daemons have been summoned, probably. :D

In the new Codex a Sorcerer with Warp Time might very well be fielded to represent something like a warrior-priest - basically somebody who's really good at killing enemy characters, which is quite Khorny (just call his force weapon a "neck-slicer" or something to explain why it's so lethal). I wouldn't have a problem with that - if he's painted pink and walks around Lashing everybody into Submission I'll be having my doubts though, but then again I've never been a fan of extreme forms of Chaos Undecided/Glory Hole/Whatever the newest name is. Bring back the good old animosity! :p

Cacodemon
12-09-2007, 23:09
Followers of Khorne that develope Psychic powers are more commonly adressed as Chaos Spawn. :skull:

Nostro
13-09-2007, 00:00
HERESY!!

(or whatever they call it, already being heretics and all)

Maynard
13-09-2007, 00:12
Squiggoth you make an excellent point about the Warrior priests of Khorne I was going to do a corrupt Empire army for fantasy using them and their ''prayers'' to Khorne :D