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gerrymander61
13-09-2007, 20:40
How viable is a Screaming Bell in a 2000 points battle? I was thinking of buying one to play for fun in battles with my friends but I was thinking of maybe taking it to the hobby store and running it there. Yes, I know it's easy to get a cheaper and better magic boost, but do the other benefits make it a worthwhile buy at 2000 points? I'd say yes because it offers a solid centrepoint around which to build the rest of the army, and Skaven are quite good at taking out cannon fire and other threats to the big instrument. I also look at the not so uncommon rolls whereby your entire army is frenzied or causes hatred. Or when all enemy units must take a panic test.

Anyways, would you or would you not run a Screaming Bell in a 2000 points Skaven list, and if so, what would that list look like?

Crube
13-09-2007, 21:21
By no eans a Skaven expert here, but I like seieng a Bell in 2K games, but I do find that armies with a bell are somewhat more restricted with the other toys that can be taken, to maintain the fact they are a horde army.

Ultimately, it's a chunk of pints, especially when you take into account the Seer that rides it....

ZeroTwentythree
13-09-2007, 21:24
Ultimately, it's a chunk of pints, especially when you take into account the Seer that rides it....


Chunk of pints? Is that another name for Skavenbrew? :D



Personally, I'm not certain about the bell at 2k. But then, I haven't tried it. It just seems like a whole lot of points to put in one spot, so your game is really riding on the bell & grey seer.

Warlord Wyquix
13-09-2007, 21:52
I've given this a go at 2k pts. Problem is its a lot of points taken up by one thing, and a str 7 hit will total it with a good chance of killing your Grey Seer as well. I played a game against Orcs and it got smashed up by turn 2. On the whole I'd rather spend the points on more horde units.

fubukii
13-09-2007, 22:16
It could be fun to use in 2k, by not means is it a smart choice, as you will end up paying About 700 pts total for the seer the bell and its unit >.<. i say give it a try in 2500 or 3k.

gerrymander61
14-09-2007, 14:12
Just played a game with a proxy one vs DE. In his army there was (thankfully) nothing that could output str7 hits. He had lord on dragon, 2x sorc, noble in CoK, 2 blocks spearelves, Black guard and bolt throwers. And dark riders

The bell unit got a whole lot of attention by virtue of the fact that it's basically a unit of rats with a big 475 point prize attached to it, and all i can say is thank god for the added stability of the bell. I got hit by spear elves and he killed a good number of rats on the charge, but because he neglected to touch either the grey seer or the unit champ, I killed 2 spear elves and tied combat. Other good moments were frenzied slaves taking down the other rat block while the frenzied clanrats didn't have to take fear tests when charged by the Cold one Knights, and then the bell unit charging the black guard, then ringing the bell and making my big unit of rats cause fear.

Admittedly, against armies with cannons or other means of dishing out str 7 hits this would probably have gone to hell fast, but I was quite impressed as to how much the bell added not just to the grey seer and his escort, but the army as a whole.

Crube
14-09-2007, 14:14
ZeroTwentyThree - :D very good - damn my typing.... I would edit it, but it's funnier with your response...

Anyway, as there seems to be more of a vogue at the mo for 2250 point battles, so I'd be tempted to try one in that size battle...

Jan Skarthen
14-09-2007, 14:31
They work well in 3000pt battles but then so do doomwheels and Vermin Lords!!!!

Dairym
16-09-2007, 10:59
It's a big point sink, but that isn't as much of a problem for skaven as with other armies since you can get large numbers of basic troops on the cheap, so you can still have a decent sized army - I've certainly seen 4 or 5 good sized units and a screaming bell.

themandudeperson
18-09-2007, 23:48
it all depends on what you roll each turn with it.. could you imagine rolling a 13 against another low leadership army like O&G and panicking half of the units in one turn?

theunwantedbeing
19-09-2007, 00:15
If you take it,then its best to keep your grey seer as your sole character to keep character costs down to a minimum(so set the guy up so he can cast fairly well on his own).

You dont need weapon teams quite so much anymore as they are so easily removed,so that saves a bunch of points that allows you to make more room for the screaming bell.

The man benefit of the thing is that if it gets hit by a st7+ thing and passes its rather brilliant ward save then it gets rung,potentially causing loads of havoc.
Even against gunlines its fairly useful(so long as you can pass 3+ ward saves fairly well...)
The potential of the thing is pretty major,although it might do nothing...but you always run the risk of an extreme result happening or not happening in warhammer anyway.

Deathjester
19-09-2007, 00:29
I actually use it quite a lot in my 2000pts skaven army, i also have 3 warlock engineers.....

It still has 154 models in it (ok so it's hardly a true horde but that's not the point really is it?)

I've got 3 units of 24 Clanrats with ratling guns
2 Units of 20 slaves
3 x 5 night runners
3 x 2 Poisoned wind globadiers
2 x 3 Jezzails
2 x 3 Tunneling teams with poisoned hand weapons
Warp Lightning cannon

I also have Stormdaemon and Eye of the Horned rat

which leaves me with 14 + or - 1 power dice, and 2 scrolls and a bound level 4 item :)

derv
19-09-2007, 21:46
2 x 3 Tunneling teams with poisoned hand weapons


Tunneling teams need to be a minimum unit size of 5 each.

Back to the original question. I feel the bell is too much of a point sink in 2000 point games. Skaven win by outnumbering the enemy, which you will struggle to do in smaller games with the bell. Roll a triple and that's easily a quarter of your army gone - good luck getting better than a draw after that happens!

I'll often take the bell in 3k games and consider it at 2.5k, but not less than that. In 2k I will normally take a Warlord and hordes of rats. They might be rubbish in combat, but with ld10 and a BSB close by they'll hold in most situations!

Ranks and flanks are most important for Skaven. Buy those first, and whatever points you have left can go on the toys.

fubukii
19-09-2007, 23:24
Actually tunnel teams are a min size of 3, non tunneling gutters are a min of 5.

gruntonheat
20-09-2007, 00:52
id go for the bell because of its great effects:P

SlaaneshSlave
20-09-2007, 19:44
I love the Bell. I play a bunch with it & without it.

Generally, the bell is hard to kill. High To, lots of Wo, a nice ward save, makes the unit immune to psych, & has magic resistance. Weakest piece is that it can be destroyed like a chariot, but that can backfire on your opponent to. I've only had my bell die to a war machine once in 4 years of pushing Skaven.

1 game I had a cannon shoot & hit it, I passed my 3+ ward save, so it rang the bell. This rings the bell, caused D3 wounds to all T7 & greater... The cannon was destroyed. Yes, the cannon destroyed itself! :D

The downside of the bell is that it turns your games into a game of "Kill the Bell". If my 800 point unit is destroyed I lost. If it my unit is alive I win.

SevenSins
21-09-2007, 13:25
The bigger the game the better the bell is, as it effects entire armies at a time. And it doesn't feel like such a point sink in 3000+
Having said that I'm planning on using one in my skaven army at 2000 points, mainly because I enjoy a touch of randomness

Angelwing
21-09-2007, 13:48
I don't recommend the bell in 2000pts. Thats your general stood on a large target waving a 'shoot me' sign. He's asking to be killed against anyone with missile fire. I have only once had any success out of it in 6th and 7th ed, against vampire counts. Even then it was due to the extra magic dice and field of view. The bell effects didn't go my way at all.
3000pts, I would take one every time, as it won't be the general, and its loss won't be too damaging.

Makaber
21-09-2007, 14:06
I'd make a 2000 pts. army, and then get a bell for it. Not only does it allow you to try the bell in a 2000 pts. environment, if you chuck it directly into a regular 2000 pts. list with little alteration, it should go a long way towards making it a 2500 pts. army (which is a really fun size to play, by the way).

Plus, it's just damn cool and every skaven player ought to own one.

Crube
21-09-2007, 14:08
154 models in 2K.... I have 170 in my Empire army.. with Knights...


If you're sacrificing that many rats for a bell, I'd personally not bother.. The problem with the Skaven is there's too many great toys to play with, that if you take too many of them, you lose out on what Sakven are all about IMO...

SlaaneshSlave
22-09-2007, 00:09
I don't recommend the bell in 2000pts. Thats your general stood on a large target waving a 'shoot me' sign. He's asking to be killed against anyone with missile fire.
Grey Seers on a Bell should ALWAYS take regen. With 7th ed it isn't as nice as it was in 6th, but it is very nice.

Seer is only hit on 6's, then has T4, then has regen. My Seer has lived through games on a bell against 50 WE archers.

Best argument against bell in 2K is that you don't like that play style. It does work well; but it makes for a different game.