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View Full Version : 5000 point lizardmen for huge game



Malorian
14-09-2007, 21:32
So this will be against vampire counts, although I have no idea what bloodline. All I know is that he like having a lot of troops and lists that most people never see. This will be my first ever game playing as lizadrmen (it's my brother's army) so please tell me any hints you might have.

It is also important to note that there are strict guidelines on army comp set by the person I'm playing. Here is a link to them: http://thewarroomsp.proboards44.com/index.cgi?board=wh&action=display&thread=1188160410

Lords:

2nd gen Slann w/ plaque of tepok, diadem of power (510)
Oldblood on carnosaur w/ itzl, tepok, sotek, scimitar of the sun, maining shield, light armor (483)

Heros:

Scarvet w/ itzl, tepok, lightarmor, shield, piranha blade (172)
Scarvet w/ itzl, tepok, lightarmor, shield, burning blade (162)
Scarvet w/ tepok, lightarmor, shield, great weapon, pendant of chotec (129)

Core:

25 Saurus w/ FC (330)
25 Saurus w/ FC (330)
22 Saurus w/ FC, spears (338) *scarvet on foot here*
20 Temple guard w/ FC (395) *obviously slann here*
10 Skinks (60)
10 Skinks (60)
10 Skinks (60)
10 Skinks (60)
10 Skinks (60)
10 Skinks (60)

Special:

5 Terradons (175)
5 Saurus cav (175) *one mounted scarvet here*
5 Saurus cav (175) *one mounted scarvet here*
5 Saurus cav (175)
5 Saurus cav (175)
5 Kroxigor (290)

Rare:

3 Salamander packs (195)
3 Salamander packs (195)
Stegadon (235)


Total: 4999

Possible 13 powerdice or 9 dispell dice

gerrymander61
14-09-2007, 23:42
Against VC you'll need more magic defence. VC usually play magic heavy and in a 5k points gameAlso, consider taking a sacred host of Tzlacotl, as your whole army will be immune to his greatest advantage over you. Cold blooded units aren't very likely to fail leadership tests so he's gotta try as hard as possible to beat you and outnumber you at the same time. With ITP, the only units that will beat yours in close combat are the black coach, and black knights. Consider getting some Kroxigor to tear through the coach and the knights.

I can't see the stegadons being of much use. Stegadons are only good at breaking units on the charge and as his won't be breaking, they'll just sit in a prolonged combat and die. I can't see the shooting being of much use either. Salamanders, on the other hand, are fantastic at killing unarmoured low toughness targets, basically his annoying core choices Ghouls and Dire Wolves. Fell bats and bat swarms also die to salamanders. Replace the Stegadons with more salamanders, or, at least replace one.

Now, characters. Drop a scar vet for a caddy. You'll be so happy to have scrolls when he casts his game breaking Danse Macabre, and procedes to cast it with 5's on 4 dice. I'd also consider putting another Scar Vet on foot with Sotek, Tzlacotl, Pirannah blade, Jaguar so's he can kill characters like nobody's business. That in mind, a bane head on someone would also be terriffic. Nominate the general as the target and watch him spend the whole game avoiding the bane head carrier.

BTW, the back of the book army lists are in no way balanced, so take a careful gander at it before you let him play it if indeed this is a tournament and not just fun play

Malorian
15-09-2007, 00:10
I can only have 5 characters, and this isn't for a tounament, but it's using the rules for the tournament he is having later.

Another problem I have is models. I have quite a few (this is 5000 after all) but I have no more salamanders. This is pretty much all my models save for another slann, 4 skink priests, a skink chief, cam skinks, 5 krox, and a few stray saurus.

So I could take out the steg to put in the krox... and I could take out some of those characters and put in the other slann and 3 skink priests...

The reason why I have the stegs is to be a narrow counter-charge unit. I don't want to be too spread out, and I can fit in stegs inbetween the saurus units without lossing too much room. I know I can't break them, but I'll take down quite a few.

I also when more combat heavy with the charactes because with tepok I'll have the same amount of dispell dice, but at least I'll have something to deal with dragons and vampires, and that oldblood can take on whole units on his own :)

How do you think I should deploy?

Bazzal
15-09-2007, 14:22
i agree with whatgerrymander61 says about the bane head, i personally like giving it to my slann, and against undead eaither use lore of metal basic spell, and pick out his general, prob a blood dragon and has a good save :-), or if your lucky and get the 6th spell then i think u can cause max of 24 wounds on him, not sure if the 6th one can pick out charters. the saurus cav should be really good especially if you can get a flank. true your stegadons prob wont do much in this game, but the bow could cause damage on a dragon if he takes one. another prob i see is that you have very little magical attack. as in if he uses banshee and etheral creatures only your slann can deal ranged attacks against them meaning that your focusing on them while he moves, raises and plans.

you will deff need mroe dispel dice, at 5000k Vc can have maybe 15+ the rules you play by should limit that but with you only having 7DD and no scrolls its not goin to be pretty bad.

also iv noticed that you have no battle standard bearer, i would def give some one it, your slann with warbanner in the temmple guard is a good combo as in combat you should get +7 to combat res before attacks, and with your 3+ save (assuming you dont use halberd) skeletons shouldnt kill many, where as you have over 10atks and should easily wipe out units.

iv only played VC a few times and every time iv went heavy magic as this stops him summoning and basic spells i.e. fireball can witel doen units and as you r force has over 2000Pts of troops who arent immune to fear you may fail vital charges and been outnumbered (which you will be with such limited magic with him summoning) you may find your army flleeing.

main point, watch out for fear and try more magic defense. cube of darkness is a small risk but negates one spell and could stop one magic phase :-)

hope it goes well and let us know what heppened

Malorian
16-09-2007, 03:11
So do you think I should go 2 slann and 3 skink priest? Or should two slann and 1 priest be good enough?

Bazzal
16-09-2007, 14:52
2 slann shoul dbe enough to hold of the vampire counts, plus if you still fee that u dont have enough give one slann the staff of sorcery meaning +2 to dispel. but this should give you 10 DD 12 if some are stored.

i still think it'll be a tough game, as vc are annoying to play with the summoning, but i hope it goes well for you, remeber to have fun and let us know what happens

Kichang
16-09-2007, 21:30
I would also use two Slann, a skink priest with cube of darkness and mark of the old ones and Tepok on Scar Vets where possible.

Take one Slann with plaque of Dominion, Bane Head and make him the army Battle Standard Bearer with the Banner of Prophecy, ideally a 6 wide by 5 deep unit of temple guard to accompany him. This will be a hard unit for the VC to shift, its stubborn Ld8 cold blooded with BSB and immune to the VCs fear. This should be your anchor block for your force.

Id take the other Slann with Diadem of Power and Plaque of Tepok and stick him in a large block of Tlazcotl Saurus. The skink priest can use his rerolls and cube of darkness to totally deny a magic phase and stick dispel scrolls wherever you find room.

I would make a highly concentrated elite force and deploy with the intention of forcing your opponent to come to you and by denying him tagets. If you set up in a corner it should give you the control and not let you get overwhelmed.

I would chose big blocks of Kroxigors to take on his Black Knights and Grave Guard, Kroxigors negate the fear these units cause, are immune to killing blow and will leave the Knights on 6+ save and the Grave Guard will have no armour. Just try and get the krox in the flank or they could lose combat anyway.

Killing off his characters is a great way to reduce his armies effectiveness and give yourself the iniative by allowing your Slann to dominate, even suicidal charges by a scar vet that allocates all his attacks can be worthwhile. Terradons are also good for tracking down and slaying the necromancers that dont hide in units.

With your magic, I would go for Lore of Shadows with one Slann and hope for the fantastic spells Pit of Shades and Unseen Lurker. If you take two Slann, the other could be used to maximise his 2nd gen free power dice by making him a mass magic missile caster, either scoring plenty of hits or forcing your VC opponent to expend power dice.

Hope I have given you some ideas.

Malorian
17-09-2007, 02:06
Well I'm hearing a lot of 'take 2 slann and krox' but don't you think the old blood would do more damage than the second slann? I can easily make room for the krox by taking out stegs, but that old blood would probably be better for me... do you agree?

So I changed the list to fit in the krox. I had to put the terradons into one group to make the points work.

Kichang
17-09-2007, 17:37
Well I think everyone will agree that magical dominance is important to the Vampire Counts army, without it they are not nearly as formidable. With 2 Slann and you perform drain magic twice on his high level casteers and bring more dispel dice to the field.

It really depends what you intend to do with your old blood. You have to be wary of anything than can killing blow him . Saurus are good enough to butcher zombies and skeles to win combat. An old blood is too many points to sacrifice to kill his casters, Scar Veterans are good enough for that job.

Ultimately its your choice, but if I were you I would be using two Slann.

TheDarkDuke
18-09-2007, 05:05
Things I would look to change:
-Magic...at 2000 points you can field more PD and DD then that. As Lizardmen going against VC you need a bit more at the very least.
-Spears on Saurus are really worthless.
-Id make those Cold Ones into 2 units of 10 or at least one of them 10
-Your ScarVets are lacking the potential to take on a Vampire espically the ones on Cold Ones, your better off saving those points and giving them Spears and better survivabilty.

garic
19-09-2007, 19:54
My advice is get an oldblood on a carnosaur, i would give him the scimitar of the sun replendent, the maiming shield, a talismin of protection and the sotec and quetzl spawnings along with light armour making a 1+ armour saved killing machine on steroids, point him at the hardest enemy and whatch him kill stuff, i have my carny that managed to beat the static combat res of a 25 skele unit with 2 heros in it.

BigRob
21-09-2007, 07:05
Even with the restrictions, I Think magic is the way to go. The Old Blood is good, but Blood Dragons can easily go toe to toe with him and the counts magic, killing blow on all the wights/knights and any other surprises will be his death.
If he is playing blood dragons, check if he is uisng the appendix list, Brettonian Blood Dragons are hardcore with lances of black knights and unlimited grave guard.
My opinions, Grab another slann and shut down his magic, without summoning Undead begin to worry. Then Sauarus/Temple Guard to take his charges, Krox and Sauarus Cavalry to flank and mash and some terradons to pick up the stragglers. Salamander Packs are in fashion and will give some handy burninator power to the flanks of your army and can always nip in and toast the lone units.
The skinks will help, but dont count on them too much against the vamps.
Beware of the lord, he will have one at this points cost and it'll be hardcore, maybe even on a Zombie Dragon. Blood Dragon Characters are nails, but with the magicphase shut down youcan kill them with combat resoloution.
Good Luck, pop up a battle report to let us know how you did.