View Full Version : seeking basic advice for skaven against high elves and tomb kings

17-09-2007, 01:28
I've got a tournament coming up that I plan to participate in and of the people I know that will attend, one will play high elves and the other will play tomb kings. So, was wondering if anyone had any advice to give as to how to defeat either of these armies with skaven.

17-09-2007, 08:59
TK are no problem. The only 'immediate' threat that they can present is carrion, and they're not to big of a deal. Your first turn blast everything you can at the heirophant, or put yourself into such a position that you can do that. Or skitterleap an assassin with warpstone stars at him. Or warlock engineer with either death globes or the brass orb.

If you don't want to do that, pull the old trick with slaves presenting either a chargeable target, or a unit that will flank charge you if you don't charge them. What you do thou, is put them farther away than normal, so if they want to charge them, they must use up their precious Urgency incantations on the slaves. Or just keep a scroll around for that gamebreaking Urgency that he casts.

If they're going shooty, get gutter runners. Oh yeah, and spread your units out so's not everything panics at the drop of a hat. I'd suggest RO's and Plague Monks, but they've just got too much potential shooty.

17-09-2007, 09:27
Get yourself some solid magic defence/offence (aka the twins):
1 Engineer with Storm Daemon and the other one with scrolls.
This should allow you to survive the magic phase without too much trouble.

Get some decent combat units, undead needs both CR and kills to make them crumble (Bone giant, Scorpion, Ushabti are constructs and are hardly affected by CR while they kill lots of rats on their own)

Monks are very usefull to counteract the Terror Causers and cause kills.
Tunnelers are also good to take out Bolts and Catapults ASAP.

18-09-2007, 04:54
Well depending on the lists, both can be difficult. Against TK if they go heavy shooting or mass numbers you could have some trouble with fear/outnumber by the time you get into combat. HE bolt throwers are gonna be a huge threat.

I personally play HE and Skaven.

Skaven wise at 2k points I field most often a Grey Seer, 2x Engineers, Plague Priest. 2x30 Clan Rats, 20 Slaves, 19 Stormvermin. 2x20 Plague Monks, 2x5 Nightrunners Tunnel Teams, 6xPlague Censors and a Warp Cannon.

All the frenzied units are very useful against fear and will tear up either HE or TK infantry units, and the added Plague Priest/Plague Censors can mess up any high armour save units. The tunnel teams are very useful for preventing RBT/Catapults from really hurting your numbers. Then I usally have enough ranged attacks with the Cannon, Magic and Ratling Guns to thin units down enough for my weaker troops. This works for me, flyers are always a problem for Skaven, so Carrion and Eagles should be high priority targets if you get the chance to shoot at them.

18-09-2007, 17:13
i dont play skaven but i do play HE. prep your army for magic defnce and be ready to fight against cav and swordmasters. id say your priority against HE is to kill the mage as soon as u can as this will limit their magic cover

18-09-2007, 18:54
Both armies have the potential to be very nasty in the shooting phase and magic phase. Also both armies can be very mobile. Both armies also have a big problem when being outnumbered.
Basically I would take a lot of troops, especially ranked troops. This way, you limit opportunities for flank attacks, your chances of panic checks, and make your opponents movement phase a nightmare.
Tomb kings are not particularly vulnerable to shooting (since they dont make panic test) and your own shooting will have problems against high elves, since they are good snipers. I might consider a canons, but I think I'd avoid jezzails and weapon teams.
I would definately take the following: slaves, clan rats, plague monks, giant rats, and in great numbers. I'd also take at least one gutter runner tunnel team for those annoying catapults and bolt throwers.
Actually a swarm is not bad in this situation since its mobile, and immune to psycology and panic. Lots of poison attacks could be nasty for your opponent as well.

18-09-2007, 21:14
what I'm most worried about his how the TK player may use his rare slots. I would love to see him go with double bone giants.. I could shoot the mess out of both before they ever got anywhere useful for my opponent. Two skull catapults or a skull catapult with a casket of souls would make things VERY difficult for me due to my rats' poor leadership. Also, another thing that would make it easier is if he took a Tomb King as opposed to a Liche High Priest, sure, the chariots would be a core choice then and he could flood the field with him, but I might have a decent chance of reigning in his magic in that scenario. I plan on holding up and forcing him to come to me, all the while making him pay for it in my magic/shooting phase. Then, I'll try to deal with whatever survives, if he goes shooty, then I'll march my clanrats and slaves while keeping all my ranged threats back.
For the HE player, I already know my unit of tunnelers will have to go after a bolt thrower while I try to get my warplightning cannon and jezzails to shoot down his other warmachines. I also already know he'll outmaneouvre me without trying with his calv, so I'll keep my ground troops in a defensive formation to protect my flanks and I'll try and shoot the poo out of his horsies and hopefully get into position to charge or more than likely counter-charge his units. Then use my slave units to engage the calv while I shoot the mess out of elf and rat alike with ratling guns. With the calv either neutralized or engaged, I'll make a move to get my clanrats across the field to attack his archers.
On the magic side of things, I'll have 6 dispell dice and 1 dispell scroll, so I should be able to go toe-to-toe with either army in the magic phase... hopefully..

Did I miss anything?

19-09-2007, 06:51
6 dispel dice is impressive. Against tomb kings you won`t be able to stop everything, but at least the deadliest spells. Don`t try to stop everything, because he will probably have 5-6 bound spells.
Most players take catapults at 2000 (I usually take 1) and so that is where your'e tunnel teams come in (or your rat swarm, which doesn`t have to make fear checks)
I would quite honestly worry about weapon teams. If your opponent has a hill, it may be over for them very quickly.

19-09-2007, 20:26
Honestly, for some reason people in my play group tend to target other portions of my army before my weapons teams. I'm not dependent on them by any means. Their short range, fraility and potential to go boom in my face means I can't use them as a "catch all" unit. Usually my jezzails catch hell the first two turns..