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Justice And Rule
12-04-2005, 05:28
Okay, at the moment a friend and I are in the midst of doing a reversal on history: We are making the Guillliman Hersey, where all the old loyalist chapters are the ones who go renegade and the traitors stay by the side of the Emperor. We are trying to stay true to the Primarchs' personalities (Though tweaking a few elements of their background so as a few of them aren't definitely going to turn (Angron comes to mind, as does Mortarion). All the major points will be there: Istvaan, the Council of Nimbaea, the Warrior Lodge on Davin, the Siege of Earth, all with their own twists. And trust me, we are going to try to be as clever and original with this as possible: It isn't going to be a straight switch for every loyalist chapter's obvious counterpart. In the end, we are going to try to do some IA style articles on them and name it all "Codex Obscuras: The Guilliman Hersey".

Problem here is that I was going to look at the old summaries of the Horus Hersey books, but the problem is that the old site is gone. We were going to use those to pick out key events. Can someone repost the old summaries of the books?

Brimstone
12-04-2005, 05:56
Can someone repost the old summaries of the books?

No they can't well not complete ones anyway as that's against forum rules.

Have you read this article (http://www.criticalhit.co.uk/w40krp/WD161_Horus_Heresy.shtml) on Critical Hit?

Justice And Rule
12-04-2005, 06:09
No they can't well not complete ones anyway as that's against forum rules.

Have you read this article (http://www.criticalhit.co.uk/w40krp/WD161_Horus_Heresy.shtml) on Critical Hit?

No, someone did brief, fairly snappy and broad summaries of the two books, nothing that would have gotten them in trouble. It didn't get deleted, at least, so I assume it fell into the okay with you and the other FIs. But that's what I was looking for.

And I was under the impression that that version was fairly dated, so I didn't ask for it. But thanks anyways. :)

Brimstone
12-04-2005, 06:14
No, someone did brief, fairly snappy and broad summaries of the two books, nothing that would have gotten them in trouble. It didn't get deleted, at least, so I assume it fell into the okay with you and the other FIs. But that's what I was looking for.

Fair enough, it was more intended for people looking to reply to your thread about what they could and couldn't post.


And I was under the impression that that version was fairly dated, so I didn't ask for it. But thanks anyways. :)

Old yes, dated not really, the HH books have some good art but the fluff while interesting could be a lot better. Which is understable considering they are designed to fit on playing cards.

Khaine's Messenger
12-04-2005, 21:35
Can someone repost the old summaries of the books?

There's nothing really new in the HH books, except some vague mentions of Just What The Emperor Might Have Been Doing In His Basement, Why Space Marines Have Librarians and Chaplains, Some Legion Dispositions Right At The Start Of The Heresy, and a few other bits of what, for lack of a better word, I would call mere trivia that has little more to do with the advent of the Heresy than the older background. You could get along without it given other sources, especially some of the older ones, as most of the events in the HH books are extrapolated from events mentioned in IA articles. Better for you would probably be reading up on stuff like Lord of the Night or Angels of Darkness, I think, to get a feel for the HH-era mentality.

I do hope that making up reasons for the traitors to stay loyal and the loyalists to go traitorous don't just invert their descriptions and make it The Horus Heresy with guys wearing their opposite number's uniforms (I mean, I think it would be bad form to have the Emperor sending the Thousand Sons to destroy Fenris for the Wolves practising sorcery).

Justice And Rule
12-04-2005, 23:05
There's nothing really new in the HH books, except some vague mentions of Just What The Emperor Might Have Been Doing In His Basement, Why Space Marines Have Librarians and Chaplains, Some Legion Dispositions Right At The Start Of The Heresy, and a few other bits of what, for lack of a better word, I would call mere trivia that has little more to do with the advent of the Heresy than the older background. You could get along without it given other sources, especially some of the older ones, as most of the events in the HH books are extrapolated from events mentioned in IA articles. Better for you would probably be reading up on stuff like Lord of the Night or Angels of Darkness, I think, to get a feel for the HH-era mentality.

Huh. Fair enough, though I remember hearing a few interesting things. But at any rate, I'll check into those two books.


I do hope that making up reasons for the traitors to stay loyal and the loyalists to go traitorous don't just invert their descriptions and make it The Horus Heresy with guys wearing their opposite number's uniforms (I mean, I think it would be bad form to have the Emperor sending the Thousand Sons to destroy Fenris for the Wolves practising sorcery).

Trust me, I'll bet you right now you can't guess the correct 4 devoted chapters to their proper powers. It'll be unexpected, but it'll make complete sense. The only really obvious one we are doing is the Ultramarines as the true Undivided chapter, but otherwise we are striving for originality.

We are also trying to keep true to the loyalist and traitor primarchs as well (Of course, again, tweaking of backgrounds a little, most obvious of which would perhaps Angron's and Mortarion's), which means their falls will be that much more tragic. When people like Russ and Sanguinius fall, it'll be a crash. We are flushing out timelines right now, but we think we have a fairly good outline on it all. There will definitely be new rivalries, and we are trying to give some of the more ignored primarchs (Vulkan, Alpharius, Kurze, etc...) more of an equal role. :)

Captain Stuart
13-04-2005, 03:52
I would guess Blood Angels go Slaanesh. Iron Hands go Nurgle. Dark Angels go Tzeentch. Space Wolves go Khorne.

I believe the expanded Space Wolves vs 1,000 Sons in IA vol 2 is new. I don't recall anything in previous background that says the Space Wolves actually had to fight the Sons.

disruptor_fe404
13-04-2005, 11:20
Agreed. Except for me thinking that Iron Hands go Tzeentch and Dark Angels go Nurgle.

malika
13-04-2005, 11:28
Why not the Raven Guard go Tzeentzch, they would turn into weird bird creatures, while the Iron Hands' motive for bionics is similar to the Iron Warriors.

I think the Imperial Fists might go Slaanesh..the whole perfect goodie thing kinda reminds me of the Emperor's Children

Kinstryfe
14-04-2005, 05:08
I vote that the Blood Angels are lured by their aesthetic side to Slaanesh, the White Scars end up getting too carried away with the mongol raider thing and go Khorne, the Iron Hands give up the flesh completely and end up serving Tzeentch as semi-real marines ala the Thousand Sons, and that the Raven Guard make a pact with Nurgle after most of their legion is decemated and what few new marines made are horrible, mutated monsters.

But then again, what would I know :D

sigur
14-04-2005, 08:12
How come you 2 think that BA would go Slaanesh? (Apart from the fact that loyal chapters would NEVER ever go traitor and turn their backs to the holy light of the Emperor, blahblah....:rolleyes: )

I mean, sometimes they're even more World Eaters than the WE themselves. Their geneseed instability (black rage, red thirst) and their blood afinity alone are 2 definite reasons to serve Khorne.

All Space Marines share those very high aestetic standards and an extraordinary feeling for (Imperial) art, only being "modified" by the standards of their homeworlds so I see no particular reason why only only the BA would go Slaneesh.

btw, there's still undivided Chaos.....

malika
14-04-2005, 09:24
Remember that the Red Thirst and Black Rage came after the Horus Heresy, after when Sanguinius was killed by Horus.

Okay the Ravenguard would take that secretive stealth thing that the Alpha Legion has sort of, they would take in that place.

Blood Angels go Slaanesh sounds very cool, the pretty boys are kinda alike to the Emperor's Children.

Kinstryfe
14-04-2005, 12:00
My whole concept behind the idea (in case I hadn't given it away earlier, I was the friend talked about), is that each chapter that turns wouldn't necessarily turn for obvious reasons. Looking at the Death Guard preheresy, for instance, they didn't show a strict predeliction toward Nurgle. There were hints, yes, but in the end, it was only because of Typhus' meddling that they turned to that particular god. Ideally, each "loyal" legion would turn, and it wouldn't always be to the particular god or in the particular way that their current army would indicate. Case in point, Russ' wolves would never, ever, ever turn to Chaos. Given their particular geneseed, the recent fluff indicates that the curse of the Wulfen is pretty much their anti-chaos device, preventing it from happening. Now, there's nothing saying they wouldn't still go rogue after a disagreement with the Emperor, which fits the same purpose, for the most part.

Sigur made a good point. It's not only the BA that have the potential to go Slaanesh, but for continuity's sake, only one legion should during the heresy. Similarly, the Ravenguard would be a perfect fill in for the Night Lords or the Alpha Legion, as stated by Malika, but part of my idea is for readers to go "Huh...didn't see that happening, but it makes sense..."

Afterall, nobody wants anything to be too predictable, as long as it can still make sense ;)

Captain Stuart
14-04-2005, 12:40
The Blood Angels were really into perfection, beauty and art in the 2nd edition Codex. I could see that easily turning into an opening for Slaanesh, especially since the death of Sanguinius hadn't occured yet. And the wings... the wings...

Khaine's Messenger
14-04-2005, 13:50
I guess one thing that was new to me in the HH books (unless I shouldn't say it...?) is that Sangy & His Glorious Chums did run into a Slaaneshi horde while on assignment from Horus in HH vol. 2, iirc, and before the final showdown with the Slaaneshi's, a Bloodthirster had offered Sanguinius a place at Khorne's side (again, iirc). I don't recall the specifics of it, though, or if it would be an interesting turning/twisting point. I boxed up my HH books for the move back home at the end of the semester.

Wolflord Bloodangel
14-04-2005, 15:05
As Kinstryfe pointed out, the Space Wolves wouldnt normally be assumed to turn to chaos. But I think that theyre definately a possibility for turning rebel, if the universe had been different.

Space Wolves have always been the most humanitarian of the space amrine chapters (in fact Logan Grminar is the universe's number one human rights activist presently), so if they were witness to the Emperor and possibly some form of Inquisition being rather harsh to the general populace then they are quite possibly capable of rebelling.

I think theyd act most similar to the Alpha Legion, as their Great Companies could act as independent 'terror cells' and fight a guerilla war against teh Imperium. Theyd obviously have support from the downtrodden masses in the form of cultists, ala Alpha Legion...

Sure they might pledge to an Undivided vision of Chaos (as they might see the only way forward for humanity is through chaos and evolution etc) but they would be untouched by any mutation past their own Wulfen...

Justice And Rule
14-04-2005, 19:08
Ah, damn it! I knew you'd spill the beans, Kin. But yes, that's the plan. Wolflord pretty much nailed our idea of the entire concept for the SWs, in which they decide to leave when the Emperor orders the World Eaters to raze the Raven Guard due to suspected Chaos worship. How does the Emperor know? Is it true? I'll tell you later when I have that part of the story. Of course, we have them down as more of a angry, murderous and vengeful bunch after Fenris is razed. We put them down as a more tragic form of the Night Lords, since tactics of terror and overarching brutality fit fairly well with their situation. But... it's a possible switch I suppose. We'll definitely consider that idea.

And I'm personally working on Sanguinius' turn. Mind you, he's still completely pure of body and mind in this, so his turn is a bit more manipulative, a bit different than Fulgrim's turn.

Sir Charles
18-04-2005, 00:31
Remember that the Red Thirst and Black Rage came after the Horus Heresy, after when Sanguinius was killed by Horus.

Okay the Ravenguard would take that secretive stealth thing that the Alpha Legion has sort of, they would take in that place.

Blood Angels go Slaanesh sounds very cool, the pretty boys are kinda alike to the Emperor's Children.
Personaly I think that BA would go Tezznech, why Magnus the Red=Mutant, Sanguinus=Mutant. Sanguins was also suppose to be a powerful seer, so he has the "Psyker" connection as well.

SW seem to match up well with the Iron Legion, if the thing about the Wulfen Curse preventing Chaos curuption is true, Since isn't the IL tendency towards Bionics supose to reduce their mutation tendancy. This wwould be sort of a reversal of Bio and Tech. Though IF also make since since they had the rival specialty to the IL, though thats probably a little obviouse.

Captain Stuart
19-04-2005, 02:23
Sir Charles seems to see whre I'm coming from re: Iron Hands. However, I think Nurgle, the daemon of endurance and unchanging hope would be the best bet for them. The IA article leaves me with nothing more than a taste of Space Wolves meets bionic hands, bt I think there is enough unknown about them that Nurgle would work well for them.