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Nikkolas
17-09-2007, 17:17
What effect would a lightsaber blade have on standard Power Armor for a Marine?

Would it cut through like butter, take several swings to get through or do little to no damage?

I suppose it would depend on the area attacked and the force of the strike?

Jade_Dragon
17-09-2007, 17:22
No more versus threads

Noserenda
17-09-2007, 17:27
No more versus threads

Seconded, the odd one can be interesting, a flood is tedious, damn character minimum...

Sephiroth
17-09-2007, 17:42
What effect would a lightsaber blade have on standard Power Armor for a Marine?

Would it cut through like butter, take several swings to get through or do little to no damage?

I suppose it would depend on the area attacked and the force of the strike?

And naturally, who was writing it. I mean, at one point in the Phantom Menace theircutting through a bulkhead to the bridge, which is going to be pretty heavily reinforced, but for some reason they don't just shear through other walls and floors, instead causing sparks? Seems to me it cuts as good as the writer requires it to...

CELS
17-09-2007, 18:03
I'd take Lifesaver over power armour any day. Those things are delicious! Just like spam.

thechosenone
17-09-2007, 18:12
seeing the mispelling in the thread title i expected this to do have been hammered to tears already. I'm happily surprised

Thanatos_elNyx
17-09-2007, 18:22
A Light Saber wouldn't be much better than a Power Weapon so it would cleave Power Armour but Terminator Armour would get its invulnerable.

Rockerfella
17-09-2007, 18:59
I'd take Lifesaver over power armour any day. Those things are delicious! Just like spam.

Lightsaver silly! Its one of those new fancy bulbs that pupms out the same light, but saves on energy! *tuts*

;)


Seriously though? I'm not sure. As the chap above said, depends who's writing the book. Naturally if it were written from a 40k perspective, it wouldn't touch marine armour, since nothing else really does. :rolleyes:

Who knows! ;)

Gen.Steiner
17-09-2007, 19:12
It's a blade of laser. Assuming it's about as powerful as an Elysian cutting laser, it's roughly equivalent to a meltagun at close range...

You do the numerical shuffle! :p

Lord_Crull
17-09-2007, 19:24
I would take a Lightsaver becuase they reduce my heating bills and I would not be able to operate inside of a suit of power armor because I twould be too expensive and bulky to maintain.

chris.seraphim
17-09-2007, 19:34
A LightsaBer would cut straight through any given armour, if you follow the fluff for Star Wars - thats why Jedi dont wear any, cuase theres no point - speed, skill and manourverability is more important than bulky ineffective armour.

Hence a Jedi would kick a Space Marine's ass - given their relative fluff.

BUt a Space Marine would RULE a Star Wars stormtrooper, as he's bigger, faster, stronger, better trained etc.
and arguably better equipped cause stormtropper gear looks decidedly IG, what with the sentinel, flak armour and lasgun equivalents....

Cherubael
17-09-2007, 19:35
Depends, does power armour contain Cortosis? :D

Chilltouch
17-09-2007, 20:17
Heh. Let's see a Jedi go up against a Space Marine.

Jedi: "I can block your puny ammo!"
Space Marine: "... Oh reeeally?" *BLAM BLAM BLAM*
Jedi: "OH MY PRECIOUS SPLEEEEEEN!"

Lightsabers block laser-beams. Not mini-rockets tipped with depleted uranium.

Rockerfella
17-09-2007, 20:33
Yes, lets. It would be more like this...

Jedi: "Shoot yourself in the tongue, you oversized ape...."
Space Marine: " Duhhh, Duh ok..." *BLAM BLAM BLAM!*
Space Marine: " Duh, I fink I duth thooted Mythelf....."
Jedi: "Do it again please, this time, get it right...! *waves hand*

How do you know a Light Sabre wouldn't just make a mini rocket explode when it hit the blade? I don't know personally, but i'm pretty sure you don't either.

Cheers!

The Guy
17-09-2007, 20:35
Ah but they could go matrix on the SM's ass and use the force on the mini rocket ;)

CELS
17-09-2007, 20:41
Jedi: "I can block your puny ammo!"
Space Marine: "... Oh reeeally?" *BLAM BLAM BLAM*
Jedi: "OH MY PRECIOUS SPLEEEEEEN!"


Jedi: "Shoot yourself in the tongue, you oversized ape...."
Space Marine: " Duhhh, Duh ok..." *BLAM BLAM BLAM!*
Space Marine: " Duh, I fink I duth thooted Mythelf....."
Jedi: "Do it again please, this time, get it right...! *waves hand*

Thanks, guys. For a moment, I was worried this thread was going to turn into a childish nerdy debate with nonsensical arguments. You sure proved me wrong. :D

PS: A Jedi can force-push incoming rockets (and thus bolt rounds) away ;)

The Guy
17-09-2007, 20:46
Yes a lightsaber would quite easily cut through power armour. But then again it could probably cut its way through a necron warship knowing george lucas :mad:

Emperor's Grace
17-09-2007, 20:50
thats why Jedi dont wear any, cuase theres no point

Actually, that only makes sense if your opponent is wielding one.... (yes, I've made this point elsewhere too - it's just logical that you should wear protection against your opponent's weaponry, not your own)

Given the Jedi rep, few "traitors and rogues", and the prevalence of blasters, I'd assume that they'd armor up for blasters when going into war just like stormtroopers (not that it seems to do them any good).

Isn't there an EU book with a Jedi wearing what amounts to Clone Trooper armor sans helmet?


Just to clear up...
1) Canonically, neither lightsabers nor blasters are simple "lasers"
2) Canonically, lightsabers do not cut "all" materials, just "almost all" (some with difficulty)
3) I won't comment on the versus issue as most turn into fanboy arguements

Rockerfella
17-09-2007, 20:51
Thanks, guys. For a moment, I was worried this thread was going to turn into a childish nerdy debate with nonsensical arguments. You sure proved me wrong. :D

PS: A Jedi can force-push incoming rockets (and thus bolt rounds) away ;)

Well, call again!!

Thing is CELS, I don't really know anything about SW, other than what i've seen on the films. I've never read any books, i've got no background info, and i only know their names because i'm of the generation that FIRST found starwars. Oh, and Darth Vader made Horus look like a jello wrestler. Again, this is just personal views and preference at the end of the day.

I know lots more about 40k than i do about starwars, and thats not saying much, as I don't really know much about 40k either.

So, its not so much a 'nerdy' argument, its just one (for now) I felt I had to walk in on. Far too much 'Space marines PWN everything' on these threads for me.

I personally think Vader or one of the Jedi masters would mash a marine into tiny parts and have them posted, special recorded delivery to the throne room on terra before a marine could even pull the trigger. Again, thats just me though.

I mean, lets get really silly. There would be some folk on this forum, that would probably go claim a marine would beat Superman. Seriously. Or the Incerdible Hulk or some other such waffle. ;)

Sometimes i just gotta step in and say 'have a word with yourself, give your head a shake, and stop being daft. Now, go sit back down and have a think young man.'

So, there it is.

Cheers!

Neknoh
17-09-2007, 20:51
Well... it would, but then the metal would heal itself directly and then go call 911 because some maniac just stabbed it with a glowy sword

NEVER underestimate Living Metal :p


EDIT: or the combined ninjapowers of "Emperor's Grace" and Rockerfella

The Guy
17-09-2007, 20:55
Yea then the NPC [necron police department] would show up. Lets see a lightsaber deflect GAUSS! :chrome:

Edit: aahhhhh NPD not NPc *sigh*

Bookwrak
17-09-2007, 21:03
Yea then the NPC [necron police department] would show up. Lets see a lightsaber deflect GAUSS! :chrome:
That's what Gungans are for.

And y'know, send a lightsaber to the GW-verse, and that sound like a master-crafted power weapon to me.

Ardathair
17-09-2007, 21:04
Yea then the NPC [necron police department] would show up. Lets see a lightsaber deflect GAUSS! :chrome:

Don't you mean the Necron Police Corps?

So let me get this straight. A Light Saber (If that is what you really meant.) from long ago and a Galaxy far away makes its way into our far future, and what are the results?

Why not ask how effective these weapons and armor are against Balrogs and Dragons?

Askari
17-09-2007, 21:04
PS: A Jedi can force-push incoming rockets (and thus bolt rounds) away ;)

As all people who play the Jedi Knight series of games knows :)

And another good point, why does Stormtrooper armour do practically nothing to save them in Star Wars, it's like Flak Armour in 40k... ;)


Why not ask how effective these weapons and armor are against Balrogs and Dragons?

Well if a guy wearing a Robe and wielding a tree branch can beat the Balrog, then I'm sure a guy wearing a Robe and wielding a Lightsaber could too

:P

The Guy
17-09-2007, 21:06
Because stormtroopers are supposed to be the bumbling sidekicks of darth vader :)

Askari
17-09-2007, 21:08
Because stormtroopers are supposed to be the bumbling sidekicks of darth vader :)

So they are kinda... like... y'know... how Marines are ablative shields the the Power Fist Sergeant?

Amazing these cross-overs ain't it.

Ardathair
17-09-2007, 21:14
Well if a guy wearing a Robe and wielding a tree branch can beat the Balrog, then I'm sure a guy wearing a Robe and wielding a Lightsaber could too

:P

A Wizards Staff is not a mear tree branch.

Besides, the most adept Jedi Master would be nought better than Saurumon the Many Colored to Gandalf the White.:D

Andyalloverdaplace
17-09-2007, 21:19
There was a material in KOTR that could be made into blades, which could then parry a lightsaber. Depending on what that material was, and if the SMs in question were geared especially towards fighting forces, the armour might be completely impervious

The Guy
17-09-2007, 21:19
Actually in the films it's about as useful as a tree branch with a lightbulb on the end

Chilltouch
17-09-2007, 21:35
Good point. I guess the "Versus" topics are turning my brain to junk.

jfrazell
17-09-2007, 21:47
There are lightsabres in 40K. Look in the SOB codex...

Biomass Denial
17-09-2007, 21:55
Well if your all argueing thats its a jedi holding the lightsaber right? Lets make it more equal and have that jedi hit his 40k equivilant, maybe Greyknight of some kind or a librarian. And if its vader chaos sorceror.

Chaplain Ark
17-09-2007, 22:03
I'd take Lifesaver over power armour any day. Those things are delicious! Just like spam.

you, my friend, creep me out.

and according to Wookiepedia, yes it exists, a light saber can cut through anything save another light saber.

Ardathair
17-09-2007, 22:09
and according to Wookiepedia, yes it exists, a light saber can cut through anything save another light saber.

There goes any and all respect for wikipedia I had.:p

Bweev
18-09-2007, 00:58
Lightsabers are the dumbest thing ever. Think about it, 'Light'saber, which means the blade is made of light right? Or laser or whatever. Which meeaaans, nooo weight in the blade. Which would make for the dumbest looking fights ever.
Controlling the weight of the blade is what makes sword fighting tough! Lightsaber duels should look like your two little brothers flailing at each other with cardboard tubes! haha stupid starwars

Lord Merlin
18-09-2007, 01:58
The armor would resist it for a while. Ceramite is incredibly heat resistant, and all a lightsaber is is a bar of heat.

Shibboleth
18-09-2007, 03:40
There was a material in KOTR that could be made into blades, which could then parry a lightsaber. Depending on what that material was, and if the SMs in question were geared especially towards fighting forces, the armour might be completely impervious
In one of the recent SW comics a group of surviving jedi used a special knife made of stuff that temporarily deactivates Darth Vader's lightsabre so they could then gang up on him, except he grabbed it off them and used it against all their sabres too...

There was also that big guy in the Clone Wars cartoons (forget his name) who had little energy shields on his wrists that blocked Obi-Wan's sabre.

Hellebore
18-09-2007, 04:31
Heh. Let's see a Jedi go up against a Space Marine.

Jedi: "I can block your puny ammo!"
Space Marine: "... Oh reeeally?" *BLAM BLAM BLAM*
Jedi: "OH MY PRECIOUS SPLEEEEEEN!"

Lightsabers block laser-beams. Not mini-rockets tipped with depleted uranium.

That's great news because bolter shells are tipped with depleted DEUTERIUM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deuterium) - suck THAT jedisuperpanzees:D

Hellebore

mistformsquirrel
18-09-2007, 04:47
It's a blade of laser. Assuming it's about as powerful as an Elysian cutting laser, it's roughly equivalent to a meltagun at close range...

You do the numerical shuffle! :p

That's kinda my take.

A lightsaber can cut through ship bulkheads - that's pretty intense. Even Marine power armor is not going to stop it I don't think.

Termie armor though, as someone else noted, would almost certainly get its invulnerable save; because its from a Deflector Field.

Course, I'd feel bad for Jedi in a fight with Space Marines honestly. Sure, the Jedi is faster, and likely at least equal to a Librarian as far as powers go, and there's the lightsaber as well...

But there's just no way they're getting through that storm of bolter ammunition to get close enough to use it. Space Marines > Stormtroopers.

Khaine's Messenger
18-09-2007, 05:50
What effect would a lightsaber blade have on standard Power Armor for a Marine?

Same as a power weapon, I expect. The biggest difference between 'sabers and "normal" power weapons would just be the fighting style as a result of the composition of the blade (however you define it) and available power/momentum. I'm really not sure why this is a question, really; every once in a while, some writer for GW slips in a vague or overt lightsaber reference (Abnett, for instance). And yes, that means that you can parry it with other "power" weapons with varying degrees of success and all necessary pyrotechnics.

Anyway, as a "versus," Jedi vs. Space Marines is pretty boring unless you add Force FX powers and use Jedi groups more like Inquisitors than a full and effective army unto themselves (which, aside from various very very-pre-ANH events, they've never been). And then it becomes more a story than a versus.

Chilltouch
18-09-2007, 05:52
Bah... It's still a depleted 'ium. So I was partially right.

Hellebore
18-09-2007, 06:23
Bah... It's still a depleted 'ium. So I was partially right.

Actually, the point was in the material - depleted deuterium is just hydrogen, it's not a metal at all:D

It would totally own a lightsabre:rolleyes:

:p

Hellebore

Lavadude360
18-09-2007, 06:24
surely any thing shiny would just own a lightsaber.

mirrors and light anyone?

Askari
18-09-2007, 13:18
Oh the spoofs of how Skywalker beats Vader with a handheld mirror.

Rockerfella
18-09-2007, 13:46
Yeah. The enemies of the Jedi clearly hadn't thought of that one... *tuts*

:)

The Guy
18-09-2007, 15:11
So all a SM would need to do is polish his armours SO well that it reflects all light :D

Chilltouch
18-09-2007, 15:40
But seriously. When facing a weaker Jedi, have a slug-throwing rifle that's identical to a blaster rifle. They'll try to deflect the beams of light shot arm and just end up being hit by molten lumps of metal. That's why bolters may have a chance of working, and autoguns would kick their arses.

Imp of High Noon
18-09-2007, 16:27
Personally I'd just use a shotgun, deflect buckshot if you can, jedi scum!
Oh and Eisenhorn had a lightsaber in Xenos, think he broke it though.

Emperor's Grace
18-09-2007, 18:10
according to Wookiepedia, yes it exists, a light saber can cut through anything save another light saber.

Actually Wookiepedia says it will cut anything but....

"force fields, blaster bolts, and other lightsaber blades"
"Cortosis" or "variant cortosis alloy"
"Lightfoil"
"Phrik"
"Armorweave "
items made with "Sith Alchemy"
"Mandalorian iron"
"Yuuzhan Vong bio-engineered weaponry and armor"
"Force Weapon"
"Water"
"unidentified super-conducting metal"
"various energy shields"
"Some creatures, such as lava dragons"
"quantum-crystalline armor"

A pretty big list just for that milieu.


In one of the recent SW comics a group of surviving jedi used a special knife made of stuff that temporarily deactivates Darth Vader's lightsabre so they could then gang up on him, except he grabbed it off them and used it against all their sabres too...
That would be pure cortosis, I believe. It "shorts" saber blades out.


There was also that big guy in the Clone Wars cartoons (forget his name) who had little energy shields on his wrists that blocked Obi-Wan's sabre.
US Agent style...

Nikkolas
18-09-2007, 18:45
In fairness, a swing from Luke's lightsaber didnt' kill the lava dragon but it did take off the scale it hit. So it's not like the blade just bounced off with no effect.

bertcom1
18-09-2007, 19:17
The effect of a lightsabre vs Power armour is this.

"Sergeant Ventris grunted as he swung his sword. The Jedi dodged the blow, and brought his lightsabre about, slicing at Ventris. The lightsabre dug into the Marines power armour, causing warning runes to appear on Ventris' visor display. Ignoring the pain as the lightsabre cut into his flesh, Ventris pirouetted, pulling the sabre from the Jedi's grip. Ventris brought his own sword round, cleaving the Jedi in two. As the bloody halves fell, Ventris was already advancing, ready to bring Imperial Justice to the rest of the heretic Jedi"

Named Marine vs Unnamed Jedi. Marine wins.

"Exar Kun slashed viciously at the Astartes warriors blocking his path. His lightsabre cut through ceramite as if it was butter. The Astartes warriors were strong, fast, and highly skilled, but Exar Kun was a Jedi, skilled in the art of blade combat far beyond anything that Marines were capable of. He sliced the leg from one Marine, eviscerating him with the next stroke. The Marines were no match, and quickly, it ended. Exar Kun pressed on."

Unnamed Marine vs Named Jedi. Jedi wins.

"The battle raged on, Jedi against Marine. Neither side was able to make progress, and push the other back. Lightsabre clashed against chainsword, and the cries of the wounded were drowned by the battle roars of the combatants."

Unnamed Marines vs Unnamed Jedi. Stalemate.

Finally, I'm too bored to write this.

Named Marine vs Named Jedi. A tedious battle, occupying almost a dozen paragraphs, filled with lurid descriptions of improbable acrobatics.

Whoever wins, Literature loses.

Wyssy Wyg
18-09-2007, 19:41
Actually Wookiepedia says it will cut anything but....

"force fields, blaster bolts, and other lightsaber blades"
"Cortosis" or "variant cortosis alloy"
"Lightfoil"
"Phrik"
"Armorweave "
items made with "Sith Alchemy"
"Mandalorian iron"
"Yuuzhan Vong bio-engineered weaponry and armor"
"Force Weapon"
"Water"
"unidentified super-conducting metal"
"various energy shields"
"Some creatures, such as lava dragons"
"quantum-crystalline armor"

A pretty big list just for that milieu.Laughed out loud. This, my friends, is why Star Wars should be enjoyed only on the big screen or DVD player.

Sith Alchemy? :p

Savant
18-09-2007, 21:09
Meh, in Episode 3 most of the Jedi get wiped out by stormtroopers, of all things (and things that are more deadly and threatening than stormtroopers include light breezes, kittens, and old people). Your average Jedi isn't all that tough when outnumbered. Assuming they could get into close range though they'd have a fairly good chance vs a Space Marine (chainsword would melt just as easily as power armor if the SM tried to parry).

Of course, Jedi are far rarer than Space Marines. You don't see companies of Jedi running around liberating entire planets.

Gamewise I'd give Jedi a WS5, and a powerweapon than always wounds on 3+ vs anything but other power weapons (strength doesn't matter when using lightsabers because they slip straight through whatever they hit, unless you hit something that actually blocks it like another lightsaber). Oh, and fleet and an invulnerable save of... 4? To represent their lightsaber blocking... powers. Otherwise normal human stats (T3, etc).

Take that up against some Space Marines and see how it does ingame.

Ktotwf
18-09-2007, 21:16
Lightsaber = Power Sword, end of story.

Chilltouch
18-09-2007, 21:26
Powerswords function similarily to lightsabers. They cut through flesh as easily as they cut through armour. This trait wasn't included because it would overpower them.

The Guy
19-09-2007, 15:01
What if the SM had a powerfist? could he just grab the lightsaber?

kris.sherriff
19-09-2007, 15:22
I am of the firm belief that if a Light Saber ever hit an suit of Space Marine power armour than the universe would implode.
On the plus side no universe means no more 'vs' threads.

The Guy
19-09-2007, 15:29
What's wrong with vs threads? I find them very interesting. Maybe there should be a "Eversor assassin vs teenage mutant nija turtles thread"? Eversor gets my vote! :D

CELS
19-09-2007, 15:32
Which turtle? Michelangelo < Eversor < Rafael ;)

The Guy
19-09-2007, 15:35
All of 'em at once! :D and that silly rat

kris.sherriff
19-09-2007, 15:37
There is nothing wrong with vs threads in principle but people forget that non of it is real and get worked up about which side is winning and how x could never beat y when you take in to account z.

The thing that bothers me is that they always crop up in the background section.

Its is hardly a discussion of the 40K background now is it they should all be banished to Random Musings where they belong.

The Guy
19-09-2007, 15:55
Yeah true...But I don't get worked up because I'm very self controlling :D
Incredible hulk vs daemon prince anyone?

Thanatos_elNyx
19-09-2007, 17:51
Incredible hulk vs daemon prince anyone?

depends on how angry the Hulk get I guess...

Lancer
19-09-2007, 18:25
I'm pretty certain that regular power armor is going to be sliced clean open by a lightsaber, given how easily powerfield-equipped weapons accomplish the same task. Once you get into stuff like Terminator armor or artificer armor (in the fluff, not according to game mechanics), then it becomes doubtful that the lightsaber will be able to cut through the material fast enough to be useful (think the blast door in Ep 1).

Chainswords and regular blades would provide no significant ability to parry a lightsaber though; even against power weapons, special techniques have to be employed just so the weapon beind used to parry won't be destroyed outright.

A better test might be how a powerblade and lightsaber would react when crossed.

Savant
19-09-2007, 18:57
I am of the firm belief that if a Light Saber ever hit an suit of Space Marine power armour than the universe would implode.

Actually I'd have to agree with this. All the improbable GW fluff about Power Armor withstanding being trod on by Titans, entire armies shooting at it with lasguns and literally withstanding hell itself attacking it, versus the equally improbably Star Wars fluff about lightsabers being better than Turbo Lasers (which are used to destroy starships), AT-ATs and wookies (which is blatantly stupid).

Two worlds of moronic, over-the-top fluff collide and the universe itself can't stand the nerdiness of it and implodes in embarrasment.

The Guy
19-09-2007, 19:37
depends on how angry the Hulk get I guess...

Or the daemon prince if he's with khorne ;)

Anyway I think a lightsaber should have no problem going through power armour..a grot blasta has a 2 in 6 chance of doing it.

kris.sherriff
19-09-2007, 20:31
but using that logic an imperial guardsman is tougher than the rear armour of a tank as a las cannon will always do some damage to the tank but will only kill 5 out of 6 guardsmen.

The Guy
20-09-2007, 06:51
Yes but that's a lasCANNON I'm talking about GROT blastas.