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Alco Engineer
31-08-2005, 01:17
After reading the word-counrty association I realise there's a bit of a negative vibe towards the USA.

NB: this is not supposed to be a P&R thread so please don't turn it into one. This is also not intended to be racist or defamitory. It is purely a poll.

SmashemTaBitsa
31-08-2005, 01:19
I think that as a whole, Americans are stupid, fat, lazy and just generally annoying. Incidentally, I am an exception to this generalization.

Freak Ona Leash
31-08-2005, 01:24
Considering how this has to do with something of a polictical topic, it should be in P&R. But my bitchings aside, I think many Americans are under-educated and often highly biased against other cultures. Most notably Canada(which for some reason appears to attract hate of all kinds form my home town. Had something to do with a Toronto reprter saying we were the crappiest city he had ever seen. Considering how this was just one opinion, this makes me wonder why it caused so much hatred here :wtf: ) and the Middle East. Many are also intolerant of other religons/religon in general. But that is because we Americans have a ****-poor educational system and a horribly skewed media.

Alco Engineer
31-08-2005, 01:24
I don't particularly like George W., (our PM's not much better) but I've lived with about 8 americans and all but 1 of those I had a great time with. That was when I was at Uni, sure as tourists I think they're a little louder than your average bear but they were also a lot of fun. I think the people are great but their foreign policy is a little to be deired.

Slappy
31-08-2005, 01:26
Probably the most important thing to consider here is that we Americans don't give two ***** what people from other countries think of us.

And rightly so.

Alco Engineer
31-08-2005, 01:27
I think many Americans are under-educated and often highly biased against other cultures. Most notably Canada(which for some reason appears to attract hate of all kinds form my home town. Had something to do with a Toronto reprter saying we were the crappiest city he had ever seen. Considering how this was just one opinion, this makes me wonder why it caused so much hatred here :wtf: )

Aussies are the same with the Kiwis. We have always had a love hate relationship with them. I think its just neighbourly rivalry. Pretty normal IMHO.

Kiro
31-08-2005, 01:27
A bit of good, a bit of bad. As an American living in blighty, the stupidity of my people is even more of an embarrassment for me, since there's always someone waiting to make the inevitable American joke...
The cognitive dissonance of the American masses is shamefully apparent too, instead of thumping their chests with pride over Iraq they should move in on Zimbabwe, and make good their claims of being the world's most civilised nation.

Shuya
31-08-2005, 01:29
YaHaRRRRrrrr the voting is private :D!

ye shall never know how mutch i hate america :rolleyes:

Freak Ona Leash
31-08-2005, 01:31
And rightly so.
Rightly so? Why is it rightly so? Unless that was sarcasm, not considering what other countries think of us is the exact attitude that will lead to WWIII. Mark Freak's wprds. 50 years from now, when the world is a blighted wasteland from the horrible war and nuclear winter you'll(those of you who survived ;) ) will be telling yor grandchildren "There was this guy Freak who predicted ALL of this by cracky!"

EDIT:Yeah...that quote was kind of essential...

Icewalker
31-08-2005, 01:32
I hate this country. I'm also very sad to say that I was born an american and live here. Have to go home to Japan. :rolleyes:

Slappy
31-08-2005, 01:34
not considering what other countries think of us is the exact attitude that will lead to WWIII.

Sure it will.

Freak Ona Leash
31-08-2005, 01:37
This thread is only on the second page and already has me confused. Damn my education! Or lack there-of!

Kensai X
31-08-2005, 01:40
I really don't see why other countries (IE one's we're not currently invading....) hate us Americans....

Just becaue theirs some fat people doesn't mean we're all fat, just cause theirs stupid people doesn't mean we're all stupid... I swear haven't any of you in other countries ever seen an idiot in your own country...

Some of you might hate American Soldiers cause their invading the Middle East... Well that's not their fault, their just men and women doing their duty to their country, they go where the government tells them and their better not be any people on this forum dissing the grunts in the American Militairy...

Now I admit my counrty isn't perfect, but it's home... And I fail to see why other's get kicks out of dissing a country where the people as majority are just like you...

Lord Lucifer
31-08-2005, 02:08
Probably the most important thing to consider here is that we Americans don't give two ***** what people from other countries think of us.

And rightly so.

Don't worry Slappy, the feeling's more than mutual. Nobody else cares about how special you guys think you are ;)
Run along and wave your flag like a good boy :p




As for me, I didn't really like any of the options... until the Reality TV option popped up.
I'm not sure that America invented it, but by God did they embrace it!

It's kind of pointless to hate an entire country with a blanket generalisation, and it's pathetic that the "I hate America" vote is the highest of the lot.
Bloody go there before making your judgement! And then realise because of how BIG it is, you'll have to spend a LOT of time travelling to get anything approaching a comprehensive view.


America has a lot going for it, and the only thing I really disagree with the Look at me, I'm better than you attitude some can have.
You're an apple, I'm an orange, realise that comparisons and claims to 'best' are pointless and moronic.

I was once told America was better because of the size of the population... by that logic, Chine rocks :D

Slappy
31-08-2005, 02:14
Don't worry Slappy, the feeling's more than mutual.

Good. Wouldn't want to start World War 3 by ourselves.

Son of Morkai
31-08-2005, 02:24
There's no "Meh" option! How can I display my lack of opinion without the great "Meh?" I'd say most humans are total fools, I wouldn't limit it just to Americans.

Kensai X
31-08-2005, 02:27
Well, I think it's hardly fair to judge an entire country based off a few wild presumtions from a nation's past. I mean if we did it that way I could say:

The British Militairy are Incompentent Buffoons:(Reference Points in History) The Revolutionary War, War of 1812, Crimean War (Charge of the Light Brigade), Afghan War (Oh, you guys got your asses handed to you in this one...) Quite a few battle during World War 1....

Right.... using your system I've just proved for Scientific Fact the British Army is run by ******....

You see... That system just plain doesn't work Nations screw up, you shouldn't hold grudges and you shouldn't judge an entire race of people based on but one viewpoint....

Kiro
31-08-2005, 02:29
Well, I hate to be nitpicky, but that *one* viewpoint sure does get around...

Lord Lucifer
31-08-2005, 02:31
Kensai, that's actually true. A number of british commanders were abject ******.
Books on the subject of incredibly stupid generals make for entertaining, if tragic, reading.


Morkai, don't vote for 'Meh', vote AGAINST Reality TV!

It's the only option!


And keep it clean guys, I don't want to be a killjoy but this thread is really stretching its usefulness

Alco Engineer
31-08-2005, 02:34
Thanks Lucifer, Keep them in line.

Oh and if you want a vote for Meh, either vote hear nor their or not at all! If you don't care do it the American (voting) way and just don't.

Sprue Rubbles
31-08-2005, 02:40
I think we (the US) have done good in the past and we can rise to the occasion, but most of the times, like everyone else in the world, we can be total idiots. This is mostly because of who is running the country.

I am deeply embarassed by the current administration. They certainly do not speak for me and they represent the worst in us. I really wish they would be a little more discreet when dealing with other nations.

Son of Morkai
31-08-2005, 02:44
To me, the American voting way is the write in. Stupid voting machines wouldn't let me vote for Cthulhu or King Steve for president... But that doesn't change that I favor the write in vote!

And reality TV doesn't bother me. It enables me to better pick out who are the ****** in society, 'cause sometimes I miss the other warning signs. It also helps in that it reduces the number of valid TV programs on at once. Could you imagine the problems that would be caused if all television stations showed quality programming at the same time? I'd miss half the program before I could even decide what to watch! (Except I only watch DVDs, not standard programming.)


I stand by my write in - "Meh."

Delicious Soy
31-08-2005, 03:17
Considering that most Americans I run into are tourists, like most Australians we tend to reserve a fair amount of faint amusement. Especially becuase many Americans haven't quite mastered the arts of sarcasm, irony or understatement.

I do often feel though that Americans tend to adopt a sense of superiority over other people, more than once I've watched them try to rely on little more than being American as a form of sound arguement. Just because my country doesn't have nuclear weapons doesn't mean that our opinions are automatically invalidated.

New Cult King
31-08-2005, 03:27
Meh. I know a handful of Americans, people I've met online, and I like all of them.

I don't agree with a lot of their foreign policy, but the poll was about whether I like Americans, not America.

I voted the one what has the thing about reality TV.

m1s1n
31-08-2005, 03:36
Every so often these threads seem to pop up, especially in P&R. I try to contribute to them, but I don't really like them--in fact, I find them to be somewhat insulting because of all the broad labels and generalizations that tend to overflow from them. I think my identity goes beyond "American"--and I think the same goes for my friends, family, and almost everyone I know. I think Luci is right in saying "Don't judge it until you have been there," and I think that Sappy is wrong in saying that "We don't care." I do care, because I do not want people to have the wrong impression of me, my friends, family, and the people I know. I think it is really important to recognize that being of any "nationality" does not mean you are pigeon-holed into some generalization. I think it is dangerous to think in those terms, and leads to a lot of the negative feelings. It is so easy to objectify people into groups that you start forgetting there are individuals who stand alone and are completely unique somewhere within that broad blanket label.

So, in the end I think it is great that WarSeer is a collection of many different opinions from different areas--but I think it is more important to recognize that we are a community filled with lots of different walks of life. I think it is important to see beyond the borders, and realize that everyone is drawn here to be together--not to create divisions of race, religion, or nationality. I'm glad that this thread is here so that people can have a discussion--but I do think that clumping all Americans into one genre of people is offensive.

Adept
31-08-2005, 04:09
As a general rule, I've found Americans to be polite, friendly people of average intelligence. Sure, none of them knew what the capital of Australia is, but then I don't know what the capital of Utah is, either.

Adept
31-08-2005, 04:10
And keep it clean guys, I don't want to be a killjoy but this thread is really stretching its usefulness

Well, if you want to get really technical, this entire forum is stretching its usefulness. So long as people aren't getting offensive, let 'em run their mouths.

Slappy
31-08-2005, 05:28
and I think that Sappy is wrong in saying that "We don't care." I do care, because I do not want people to have the wrong impression of me, my friends, family, and the people I know

To imply you care what strangers in other countries think of you, implies that you are willing to take into consideration your lifestyle, what you do, what you enjoy, and how you live your life, and how these other people feel about it. Your implying you would be willing to reconsider doing something in your life in the event it would not be acceptable to these people.

Not caring what these people think of you implies that you go on with your daily life, from day to day, with not a thought in your brain of what citizens in other countries are thinking of your lifestyle.

If you care what they think, that means you are willing to change or not do something because of their possible disapproval.

And quite frankly, that's pathetic (if that's what you do).

devolutionary
31-08-2005, 06:09
I have found half of individual americans to be wonderful, caring people who really do give a damn about their friends and society. At the same time, the other half are the exact opposite.

I feel that there is some indoctrination amongst Americans, a forceful impression of "Love thy country... or else" that comes out when they gather in groups. Mob mentality can run rampant, as it does in all humans. However a few decisions by very shady powerhouses amongst their upper echelons in the past has created a superiority complex that is backed up with sheer numbers and strength. The damage to Europe in the early half of the 20th century gave the US a virtually unopposed road to become the worlds premier super-power, and the world loved to remind them this. Ego boosts lead to a belief in superiority, be it intentional or not. Therefore Americans as a group I dislike, while Americans on the individual level I find surviveable, if not damn near loveable, half the time.

I've always stuck to the principle that the person is great, but people just suck.

Lexx
31-08-2005, 06:32
By and large I consider America to be superior to most nations, but am saddened that the average American is allowing corporate greed and government corruption destroy what made American better than any other nation in history.

BTW, i wonder how long an American would be allowed to post a poll on some oither country or group with similar choices.

Shadowheart
31-08-2005, 06:33
I'm indifferent about Americans. Nationality, my own included, means nothing to me. Maybe that has to do with having grown up in a grey area that might as well have been part of Belgium or Germany instead of the Netherlands, which is a particularly internationally oriented country to begin with. I have little or no feeling of "us", so consequently not of "them" either.

I don't think "the Americans" are overeager to go to war, nor that they helped defeat Hitler. I don't believe your nationality alone makes you guilty of anything, but it doesn't allow you to take credit for something either. Many people disagree, and will use nationality as a basis of arguements against others and in favour of themselves.

That said, there's certainly differences between people in general from different countries, because the circumstances (cultural, economical and what have you) are different everywhere. The average American is going to be different from the average Swede, but an average is only an abstraction. You won't find the average American actually driving down the road somewhere. Moreover, there's no way of being sure what the average is, and it's bound to be something other than the popular stereotype.

US-bashing is hip these days, at least it certainly is over here in the Netherlands. It doesn't matter how young, uninformed or generally dumb people are, they're virtually all agreed that the USA suck. And as always people love to be agreed with, so the opinion gets voiced a fair deal. It's as mindless as Bush is accused of being, and it's bloody annoying. There's IMO plenty wrong with the US that you could complain about in a halfway intelligent and thoughtful fashion, without losing sight of the positive aspects of the country.

As a general rule my opinion of the US goes along with KMFDM's lyrics on the subject pretty well, though it's a symbol of 'the west' in general which also includes my own country. Tracks like Dogma, American Dream and importantly Godlike, plus of course the WWIII album in general. I imagine the new album out soon will offer some more angry songs to shout along with, as I also like to be agreed with.

devolutionary
31-08-2005, 06:37
BTW, i wonder how long an American would be allowed to post a poll on some oither country or group with similar choices.

As long as it was civil in it's attitude (ie no specific flamings or blatant attacks), then I'd imagine just as long as this has been

Eldacar
31-08-2005, 07:28
Some Americans are pretty good blokes (my relatives over there are, some people I've met on forums are, and so on). But quite a few of them are idiots (no offence to any Americans here, but it's just my opinion).

And then there's the ones who complain about Bush. Well, if there's so many people who hate him, why vote him into office? :confused:

useless
31-08-2005, 07:38
i don't hate americans it's just that the americans iv'e met say "america is better then country!" and other random bull.

The tourists are worse. One asked where is scotland and i said near britain and the tourist siad i thought it was part of canada....

Wez
31-08-2005, 08:19
The "USA" is a bit vague imo. I'll go into a bit more detail:

The People
Seem nice. Not very fond of the disproportionately (for a 1st world country) large numbers of zealots, but they're still in a minority. :)

The Government
Bah. Not fond at all. Then again, there's very few foreigners that would like the American government.

The Country
Beautiful country. I'd love to go there at some point, maybe work there for a few years.:)

-Wez

highmarshaldave
31-08-2005, 08:46
America always seems to be a bit of an enigma to me. As Wez said, the country itsself is fantastic; and the government, well, isn't. But the people are a wee bit more puzzling. The national stereotype is that they are all fat, lazy, arrogant and don't give a flying-****** about anything or anyone else. In reality, I've never met a single American who remotely fits this image. And this is what puzzles me. It seems as though many Americans have realized what the world thinks of them, and are determined to change their national image. Well done guys!

Dave out.

Sojourner
31-08-2005, 08:47
I haven't let my opinions be clouded by the over-average intelligence of people on Warseer. I definitely accept that most people are idiots.

Unfortunately it seems that a lot of Americans have this particular brand of corporate-fostered mass idiocy that in a sense is no worse than anybody else's, but tends to be far more irritating.

Oh, and the Government. Don't get me started on the Government. The problems don't start and end with George Bush. I firmly believe that there hasn't been any good American government from a world perspective since the end of WWII, and probably before.

vypyr
31-08-2005, 08:49
i spent about a year living in america (denver) and was very surprised at how polite and nice the average person was. sure there are plenty of meatheads around, but there were far more nice, reasonable people around than i expected. i was expecting more of the stereotypical fat, ignorant, better than you types. i guess it depends on where you go in america as to how many cool americans there are compared to how many not cool. some cities/states work different to others...

and a point i found interesting was talking to a friend of mine over there. she said that in school they are pretty much taught that america is the greatest country in the world. so its beat into their heads from an early age, especially in the red states. more and more americans are moving away from that ideal and realise there is no such thing as the greatest country in the world. just try and think about them when judging americans

Griefbringer
31-08-2005, 09:02
The people of United States are like ice-cream: both come in a plenty of flavours.

ReDavide
31-08-2005, 09:03
As a general rule, I've found Americans to be polite, friendly people of average intelligence. Sure, none of them knew what the capital of Australia is, but then I don't know what the capital of Utah is, either.

Hey! I live there! :mad:

(Yours is Canberra right?)

lord_blackfang
31-08-2005, 09:11
Hey! I live there! :mad:

(Yours is Canberra right?)

Lucky guess :p

hairyman
31-08-2005, 09:32
Salt Lake City???

I hate the government of the US with a passion, but American people are just people. I can't knock the culture that gave us the Velvet Underground, the Muppet Show, Star Wars and Hunter S Thompson... even if it also gave us Pearl Harbour (the film), McDonalds, Charlton Heston and SUVs.

Wiseman
31-08-2005, 09:41
hate their gov't but nothing agianst the people

Lord-Warlock
31-08-2005, 09:53
I hate the government with a passion. The people themselves are cool enough...

...except when they adopt the attitude that, because their country is the world's most powerful country and has the most nukes, they're better than everyone else. Guess what, you're not.

Compyraptor
31-08-2005, 10:00
I've been to the USA three times (Florida twice and Washington D.C. and New York [one trip]) and I've found the people there to be friendly and kind. So I've got nothing against the people, especially when a group of girls on the beach started to chat me up and say that my accent is sexy ;). But (there's always a but) I do find that a lot of Americans are loud and are very over-dramatic. And they gave us reality tv, a crime that is unforgivable.

Xisor
31-08-2005, 10:02
I'm not a fan of American politics in the slightest. In fact, at Uni, I found debating politics with american students to be little more than banging my head of a brick wall. Even those who agree with me!

That said, I have also found the majority of them to be largely pleasant individuals, though their sense of humour leaves alot to be desired...

Rob & Me, Scottish
Emily & Courtney, Americans

Rob: Tea Heals everything. Like: "Oh, he's dead. have a cup of tea"
Me: No isn't that Time heals everything
Rob: No, Tea Heals Everything.
Me: Ah that was it. My dad used to say "Laughter is the best medicine." But then that's probably why my brother died from leukemia...
Emily & Courtney: :eek: :eek: :eek:
:rolleyes:

Pleasant enough people, but some deepset cultural differences I'm afraid. Oh well, it just goes to make it all the more interesting.

[I also tend to find them a bit louder than most people, but that could be because of the distinctiveness of the accent more than actual loudness]

Xisor

bertcom1
31-08-2005, 10:17
The problem with the USA is that it _is_ the greatest country in the world.

Americans tend to be inward looking because the USA can offer just about any tourist experience you care to name. Skiing, surfing, forests, deserts, etc. The USA has it all.

Which is why so very few people own passports, because they have no need to travel to other countries to experience things.

With relatively little travel and experience of other countries, most peoples opinions of foreign countries will depend solely on what they are told in school, and by the media. And since the USA is so large and varied, there is so much happening that there is little time to spend on foreign countries in school or the media.

Thus Americans tend to have opinions based on a few facts, and can appear to be ignorant, naive and so on, which can irritate foreigners.

The foreigners think the USA is a country of ignorant oafs, and the Americans think all foreigners are rude, probably because they are jealous of the USA and its superpower status.

Its all about perspective, when you have none, you cannot see things as they are, and most Americans have no perspective on the rest of the world because they do not _need_ to have one.

Ive never been to the USA, and have only met 3 US men and 2 US women. One of the women explained the situation as above. In any case, all 5 were pleasant, polite and seemed well educated. So of the Americans I have met, I liked all of them. Of Americans in general, I dont know, they can be good, they can be bad, its pretty much the same across the world, but given the above information about what their perspective is, I think I would like the majority of them if I met them.

devolutionary
31-08-2005, 10:28
The greatest country in the world? Certainly the most powerful. Is power what makes a nation great? I dunno, that's a very megalomaniacal outlook.

And New Zealand for one can offer all of the above and more, in terms of geographical experience. Only the more super anomalous deserts pose a problem, but that's why Australia is there :)

Grumnir
31-08-2005, 10:30
Probably the most important thing to consider here is that we Americans don't give two ***** what people from other countries think of us.

And rightly so.
This would be my primary grief.

Best demonstrated by the attitudes of the Utopia (free online game) P&R equivalent found here (http://boards.swirve.com/board.cgi?boardset=utopia&boardid=politics&spec=5723212) which makes our own P&R seem very tame

Oh and the bastardisation of the english language.

EDIT: And we can also still offer (some) skiing, lots of surfing and all the happy nature stuff ;)

bertcom1
31-08-2005, 10:34
Greatest in terms of peoples perceptions.

If youre told its great, and have no reason to go outside it, you never experience anything that contradicts this.

Reinnon
31-08-2005, 10:37
i've seen some real gems in america:

a place that was like the league of genterman (sp?) in every way, i mean they even had a round-about zoo!

being asked "what language do you speak in england?" while in a pub.

Say tomato and they thought i was talking about cabbage

thats the best, but i'm sure that i could find equally stupid people anywhere.

but, for reality TV shows (infact chat shows included) and teh amount of adverts on their TV, i could never live there

Freak Ona Leash
31-08-2005, 10:44
As a general rule, I've found Americans to be polite, friendly people of average intelligence. Sure, none of them knew what the capital of Australia is, but then I don't know what the capital of Utah is, either.
I always thought it was Sydney but someone else in real-life said I was wrong :(

Delicious Soy
31-08-2005, 10:47
I always thought it was Sydney but someone else in real-life said I was wrong :(
Well it would be Sydney but a noisy lot down south made us build a new one :p

Wiseman
31-08-2005, 10:53
"I always thought it was Sydney but someone else in real-life said I was wrong "
some yobo's complained about that and so we had to build a state in the middle of nsw just so they would shut up.

Freak Ona Leash
31-08-2005, 10:57
Well...thats interesting...

Wiseman
31-08-2005, 11:05
we didnt think so, we were quite annoyed

The pestilent 1
31-08-2005, 11:06
im not bothered about america either way.
good people, bad people. but then, its the same everywhere.
however; you guys gave us reality TV and for taht, you cannot be forgiven :p

Wiseman
31-08-2005, 11:54
forgot about reality tv shows, exterminatus on america, now

Tormentor of Slaanesh
31-08-2005, 13:10
We can't be too negative but they have never won a war on their own, true fact. I was gonna start a thread about this, glad i didn't have too.
they have a massive divide between rich and poor, not good.
Rule Brittania!!

Freak Ona Leash
31-08-2005, 13:21
Well, the British lost the Hundred Years War to the French and the Burgundians, who at the time had a horrible army. so dont go saying we Americans have war problems...though, the one war we tried to fight alone ended up being a fiasco so you do have a valid point...

Tormentor of Slaanesh
31-08-2005, 13:26
britain lost wars yes, everyone has to lose sometimes, even my vampies.

Adept
31-08-2005, 13:27
dont go saying we Americans have war problems... though, the one war we tried to fight alone ended up being a fiasco so you do have a valid point...

Alone? The American Civil war?

Freak Ona Leash
31-08-2005, 13:34
vVietnam was pretty alone...well, there were the South Vietrnamese...and probaly numerous others, but Im not smart enough to know much about them.

Adept
31-08-2005, 13:40
Well, there were Aussies, Kiwis and Brits that I know of in Vietnam. It was primarily a US war though. But so were both the Gulf wars and Korea, hence my confusion.

Tomasaurus
31-08-2005, 13:57
Even though I am one, I dislike most Americans

Reinnon
31-08-2005, 14:00
Alone? The American Civil war?

well, you can't really say America lost or won that one :)

Yodhrin
31-08-2005, 14:22
Im not a big fan of politics in general in the US, but that's more down to personal preferance.

As a people, only four things get at me:

1. You did not "save our asses in world war 2". You entered the war only when you were attacked. If Japan had not gone for Pearl Harbour, you would have been perfectly happy to sit back and wait to form trade deals with Mr Hitler.

2. The phrase "Oh how quaint!". The minute an American tourist utters that phrase, I immediately begin thinking up the most complex set of wrong directions I can.

3. Your irrational hatred of the French. The French Navy is one of the major reasons you actually exist as a country, if they had not stopped a large portion of Royal Navy ships from landing troops, supplies and artillery you would still be drinking tea and spelling properly, which leads to...

4. Your butchering of the English language. Dropping a few U's does not mean you have invented your own language.

Now we have that nice little rant out of the way, I can say that on the whole, I find you tolerable. Which is more than I can say for most of the people I meet in my own country :p

Seriously though, most Americans seem like quite nice people, and those I've met in person were polite and intelligent. As a whole, a little more religious and nationalistic than I would like, but not inherently worse than any other nation on this ball of rock. In my view, the only reason people seem to think there are a lot of idiots in America is because...well, there are, but only because they have a population so large. The ratio of normal to ***** is likely the same, there are just more of both.

Besides, I really cant stay mad at a nation where literally just speaking will have a few fit women get interested in me, and where wearing my national dress will have some of you practically worshipping the ground I walk on. You guys really love us Scotsmen eh? :D

Oh, sorry, one last negative. SCOTSman. Not SCOTCHman.

Lardidar
31-08-2005, 14:25
I find the few Americans I know personally to be very similar to me.

But the America we see in the Media is the America that I think most people are bashing ..... Get to know someone before you diss' them.

That said I can't help but fear the American goverment and what they may may do next, plus we (British) seem to be Americans lapdogs.

Lord Lucifer
31-08-2005, 14:58
Lardidar, the America I'm bashing is the America that says "I'm better than you" :p

The America I like is the America that says "wow, lots of other cool countries out there too! Lets go fund a major three-part motion picture there!"


As for the complaints against America based on government, well... I find I dislike pretty much all governments. Everywhere.
It's a good rule-of-thumb that never steers me wrong

Commissar Vaughn
31-08-2005, 15:05
ditto. i was gonna vote that i just hate the american govt an its policies, but i dislike the british govt just as much.

what do the americans see in blair? perhaps they know something we dont.

TeddyC
31-08-2005, 15:47
I think as a nation America has just as many intelligible people as it does ******... Like every country.

However their government can suck my balls.
It just so happens that in the UK we only see their government and their prominent celebrities. We only hear about their dubious forgien policies and Bushes 'We are biggest we dont have to give a rats ass what anyone thinks' attitude.
Then to top it off the only 'average joe' american we see will be supporting their countrys governemt OR will be some other fanatic of some sort.

I think the problem is perception. N.America is such a big place you can fit an awful lot of demographics in there from God fearing Bible Bashers to fat cat multi national business bosses. It seems theres someone for everyone to hate!

Yea people tend to be ok..... as long as they arent spouting off about

saving asses in WW2
correct spelling of words
how great their govt. is

Lardidar
31-08-2005, 15:50
Lardidar, the America I'm bashing is the America that says "I'm better than you" :p

Well yes but, we have the same kind of people here in England (and I'm sure all other places have them too) but because we are so much smaller than the US we don't notice it as much and it's easier to Ignore, however they have so many more people than we do that they are bound to have more Nationalist fanatics (sp?)

I agree they should get out more and pay for more 3 part movies based in other beutiful places of the world (and not save they day in all of them :) )

Lord Lucifer
31-08-2005, 15:55
Lardidar, but you must see, this is a thread on Americans, not Brits (although two of these threads is enough PLEASE don't make anymore, not until the current two die)

As such complaining about british patriots seems just a little off-topic to the discussion of the merits of America and its inhabitants.


Oh yeah, and listen to Bill Hicks' views on patriotism
Bill Hicks is (well, was) one of the things I love most about America
*awaits the Second Coming of Bill Hicks*

Inquisitor Engel
31-08-2005, 15:58
I agree they should get out more and pay for more 3 part movies based in other beutiful places of the world (and not save they day in all of them :) )

What, you mean like Lord of the Rings? ;)

hairyman
31-08-2005, 16:01
*awaits the Second Coming of Bill Hicks*

Amen to that

brother_fandango
31-08-2005, 16:01
Probably the most important thing to consider here is that we Americans don't give two ***** what people from other countries think of us.

And rightly so.

Thankyou, very very much.
the america people see is what they make themselves see. i could go bashing on sweeden and their people, but i dont. the might not teach us americans what forigners like, but they sure as hell teach us respect.

Captain Brown
31-08-2005, 16:44
Well this may end up in P&R, while I don't post there I will add my two cents. Being a former member of the armed forces (and now a reservist) I have served on both coasts, often attached to battle groups and task forces with American ships and personnel.
Those are merely small microcosms of a larger society (just like my ship and crew are), while every group has it's idiosyncrasies and bad apples I find the majority to be fine upstanding people who I am quite willing to have beside me if the @#$% ever hit the fan (a better vouching for fellow human beings I do not know).

Captain Brown (who voted Hey the USA is pretty good)

Alco Engineer
31-08-2005, 23:22
I must admit that I think the Govt and Media are the biggest problems in the USA. I beleive stations such as FOX which bring us such great programs as the SImpsons, Futurama and Famiy Guy are also very conservative. The problem is that FOX is owned by our Aussie mate Rupert Murdoch. Which means that the USA isn't wholy reponsible for their own ignorance of international issues. Plus our PM John Howards a bit of a dick and loves kissing up to Goerge W.

I also love all of the black gangsta type movies from the US such as Boyz n the hood. And although the segregation between wealth and poverty is a major issue in the uSA, without it I wouldn't have such great viewing pleasure.

Necrontyr
01-09-2005, 00:32
As an American, I have to say that I like some of the people, but hate the ignorant, and religious fanatics. Our government is full of overpayed fools, but also has a few (very few) people that actually try to make things better.

Our cars rock though!

(At least most of the ones built before 1972)

Lafeel Abriel
01-09-2005, 01:47
As a people? Neutral, unless given a reason by them to like/dislike them, and I only ever do that on a individual basis.

Sure I dislike many of the things George W has done in his time (could say "most of them", in fact), but that does not mean I blame every person in the U.S for that. He is the one the blame should lie with, he and the current administration, not the individual voters, or general public.

Sorry for getting a bit political in this, but I felt I needed to to explain my view completely, thank you for your time.

Bmaxwell
01-09-2005, 03:07
Well Im stuck here and I don't See my self moveing to another counrty anytime soon. But IF you find the right group off people Amrecia can Be really good but if you don;t wacth out.

And our goverment is retarted. I know even if i could vote i wouldn;t have voted for Bush he is a ***** if i've ever seen one

Ravening Wh0re
01-09-2005, 03:51
I like 'em for the most part, mainly because they have such interesting thoughts. I always look forward to visiting family memebers in the States. Pleasant enough people.

But any goodwill you have towards them is instantly eroded as soon as you hit Xbox Live :(.
I'm quite sick and tired of being told I'm a "noob", "American wannabe", "Brit fag", and to have to play a game where your opponents chant "USA!USA!" (One even sang "Team America", ironic no?)

Wiseman
01-09-2005, 04:22
*awaits the Second Coming of Bill Hicks*

who??? never heard of him

Kensai X
01-09-2005, 04:51
But any goodwill you have towards them is instantly eroded as soon as you hit Xbox Live :(.
I'm quite sick and tired of being told I'm a "noob", "American wannabe", "Brit fag", and to have to play a game where your opponents chant "USA!USA!" (One even sang "Team America", ironic no?)



Wow you've managed to some up the entire US population because of 12 year old ****** who have no lives and therefore spend all day playing video games cooped up in a small lightless room...

Wiseman
01-09-2005, 05:07
you mean the entire US population isnt 12 year old ******. Lies and Deceit i tell you;)

Galonthar
01-09-2005, 08:59
well.... I guess that there`s a great load of good chaps there,... (whew, loads of warseer-ers are american so you can`t call them basterds)

but that goverment of em... (with bush in the lead)... freaks, idiots, ****** etc etc etc.... they try to eliminate terrorism,... but all they succeed in is; more terror, death, destruction, misery, loss of privacy all across the world (they still call it a democratcy here in the Netherlands,...well with this bush-addicted priminiser...the want to know everything of us,... more might to the police, etc.... seems wanting privacy, turns you into a terrorist here!! :eyebrows: )

ok, this is a little too extreme,... but you get the idea ;)

but like I said,... I guess the "normal" people are the same as anywhere; there are freaks, but also ok guys,...

Lord of ???
01-09-2005, 09:51
I like the people a little naive about the rest of the world at times but in general very nice people.

Things i hate about America is A)Their Media, The media companies produce non-stop garbage for shows and have such a strong bias towards America that nothing about the rest of the world really gets shown. Its bias is also entirely pro american with little or no channels providing an alternate view or a view from the outside world.

B) Their Governments Foreign policies. The Foriegn policies of America seem to be all about benefitting just the US (Which is understandable but its only about the US getting exactly what it wants not benefitting the entire world to make it a better place just securing a better deal for corporate America)


Those are the only 2 things that i hate about America i'm not American and not subject to much exposure of the rest of American life so i cannot comment there.

Ravening Wh0re
02-09-2005, 05:55
Wow you've managed to some up the entire US population because of 12 year old ****** who have no lives and therefore spend all day playing video games cooped up in a small lightless room...


:eyebrows:
I was just giving experiences from the actual people you come in contact with. And why does EVERY SINGLE ONE of them on Live have to be pricks?

edit: also, not all of them are 12 yr olds. Most are actually early to late 20's, and a smattering of up to 40ish

Delicious Soy
02-09-2005, 06:15
*awaits the Second Coming of Bill Hicks* We think science can save us Bill!

hairyman
02-09-2005, 10:22
who??? never heard of him

Get ye to the interweb and order his videos. Very angry, very clever, very funny, very twisted american bloke.

Strictly Commercial
03-09-2005, 06:38
I wouldn't say I hate our government, because I appreciate the system of checks and balances with the three branches of government, the Constitution that does, despite what people say, protect us, and a court system based off of due process. But what I really hate is the way political parties do things.

I have no problems with parties as a concept, but what has ended up happening the last several elections is that everyone has compromised down to the lowest common denominator. This is basically the flip side of everyone honestly looking at the best representative of the party and choosing the two prime candidates. So, instead of seeing an awesome race like Wesley Clark for the Dems vs John McCain for the GOP (or a number of alternative nominees from both major parties), you get Bush vs Kerry (or even worse, Gore). So it's no surprise most people anywhere think our President is a tool; it's the list of candidates, not the people's ultimate choice of who they want.

Incidentally, I may be in favor of having a multiparty system but I think it's so ingrained to have two parties we are stuck. The parties might change like they did in the late 1850s (and a couple times before), but I am certain we will always have two.

fracas
03-09-2005, 11:50
Interesting thread thus far

I find the complaints of the alleged indoctrination that "America is the greatest" in american society amusingly reflected in the indoctrination of non-American westerners that "America sucks". All blinded by bias. Both equally ignorant.

I am a naturalized american, and being asian i certainly don't blend in unseen. This give me both an inside and an outside perspective of America. Having travelled extensively, I also have a decent perspective of the world as well. Overall i like the American attitude of "can do and lets do" more pronounced here than anywhere else.

tzeentchgiant
03-09-2005, 11:56
Why is there no option for some people are ok, others are tools, and their politics are ********.

That's what I'm thinking.

And with reference to American not caring about what others outside of america think, so what? That's not a tough macho attitude, it shows more ignoranmce about other countries than anything else.

The thing that makes me dislike some americans is they feel they can pass judgement about other countries, and then won't see what they are making themselves into. But I suppose that makes me a giant hypocrite.

But that is a generalisation, 1 American = OK guy, Family (non redneck) = Ok, Group of Americans, fraid not.

TG

Kohhna
03-09-2005, 11:56
IMO America has a lot going for it. Hey, some of my best friends are american :D

Louis Muinzer, my freinds Dad was one of the nicest, decentest fellows I've ever met. Who can hate the place that gave us Frank Zappa, Bob Crumb, Josk Kirby Will Eisner, Johny Cash, Patti Smith and millions of others I can't name off the top of my head. Most Americans I have met have been decnt enough - (though admittedly, having never been there the ones I've met would be from the 20% that own passports, so there is a bit of a sample bias).

Sojourner
03-09-2005, 12:36
SC - indeed, the way the system is supposed to work isn't too bad. It's the people on top who influence big decisions that are the problem. As far as I can see, the way the Us gov deals with public issues is pretty good. The way it deals with big, holistic issues such as foreign policy and the economy, not so.

Kohhna
03-09-2005, 12:39
One thing about the Poll, Americans didn't invent reality TV.

Getz
03-09-2005, 12:58
No, I'm afraid us Brits were responsible for that one.

Typical Americans, nick all our best ideas and then claim the credit....

Yodhrin
03-09-2005, 13:54
No, I'm afraid us Brits were responsible for that one.

Typical Americans, nick all our best ideas and then claim the credit....

Actually I think we need to point the finger of blame at the Euros for this one mate, one 'o them Scandinavian countries I think. Sure, there was reality TV before Big Brother, but that's the one that ingrained itself into the public conciousness and spawned such atrocities as "Celebrity Love Island" :eyebrows:

Getz
03-09-2005, 14:12
I'm thinking back as far as "Clampers," "Airport," and even "The Royal" (about a hotel - in Manchester I think). Waaaay before Big Brother...

anarchistica
03-09-2005, 14:19
I find the complaints of the alleged indoctrination that "America is the greatest" in american society amusingly reflected in the indoctrination of non-American westerners that "America sucks". All blinded by bias. Both equally ignorant.
Er, huh? Maybe it's because you're from Asia but such a thing does not exist here. The "hate" only really got started because of the War in Iraq and you'd find that aside from some dumbasses most people just feel sorry for Americans.


Actually I think we need to point the finger of blame at the Euros for this one mate
Guilty as charged...

Americans. Well, they're not the smartest people around, but some of them are ok. Their society as a whole just seems so keen on ruining what's left of it's good reputation by poluting the world with Lindsay Lohan, CSI, blockbusters, ID and a whole lot of other things.

vforvenator
03-09-2005, 14:21
How did America invent reality television?

Gethalorre
03-09-2005, 15:55
Um... It didn't

Inquisitor Engel
03-09-2005, 16:15
Um... It didn't

No, but it certainly dried it up of all potential life and squeezed every inch of anything entertaining out of it...

Thud
03-09-2005, 16:22
I find them arrogant. It annoys me.

Actually, that's generalizing, a lot of them are great people.

Kohhna
03-09-2005, 17:36
Actually Reality Programming pre-dates even television. Back when there was just the Wireless there were a lot of reality shows. Its only since the tech has been available that the Reality TV has become such an important genre, but the potential has always been there.

m1s1n
03-09-2005, 18:00
What's the first reality TV show?
The oldest I can think of is "The Real World", but there must have been something earlier. . .


/jacking thread

Crazy Harborc
03-09-2005, 20:05
Reality TV quality is NO problem for me............I haven't watched one showing all the way to it's end.

Um........I picked the first choice offered........For some reason I am biased.

386
03-09-2005, 20:58
What's the first reality TV show?
The oldest I can think of is "The Real World", but there must have been something earlier. . .


/jacking thread

I think COPS is actually considered the first, it's been on for twenty years I think.

Misfratz
03-09-2005, 21:47
Anyways I thought it was the Dutch who invented reality TV?

Or is this like that woeful film the yanks made about the capture of the Enigma machine where they substituted Americans for Brits?

tzeentchgiant
03-09-2005, 21:51
All wrong, in England, in the seventies, there was a TV programme that followed the lives of a family living in highrise accomodation (I think).

That was the first reality TV, even though the name eludes me currently.

TG

Wez
03-09-2005, 22:05
All wrong, in England, in the seventies, there was a TV programme that followed the lives of a family living in highrise accomodation (I think).

That was the first reality TV, even though the name eludes me currently.

TG
Did you get that off a programme about chavs?

If so, considering how much crap was said in that film, I wouldn't be sure about the 'fact';).

-Wez

The pestilent 1
03-09-2005, 22:07
Did you get that off a programme about chavs?

If so, considering how much crap was said in that film, I wouldn't be sure about the 'fact';).

-Wez

and considering the stupid tart has gone on to make a "programme" about how reality T.V is actually good for you (and we hate it because were jelous probably) id take no word for it whatsoever.
stupid women.

:0)
03-09-2005, 22:34
The national stereotype is that they are all fat, lazy, arrogant and don't give a flying-****** about anything or anyone else. In reality, I've never met a single American who remotely fits this image. And this is what puzzles me. It seems as though many Americans have realized what the world thinks of them, and are determined to change their national image.

You haven't been to Walmart, I take it?

Kohhna
03-09-2005, 23:49
Anyways I thought it was the Dutch who invented reality TV?

Or is this like that woeful film the yanks made about the capture of the Enigma machine where they substituted Americans for Brits?
The Dutch invented Big Brother.

There seem to be two types of reality TV.

1 Would be things like Driving School, Cops, or The Family, which are like serial documentaries. This form of reality broadcasting Pre-Dates television and has been around for ages. If you think about it it is one of the most obvious way to make a show, i.e. find some people and stick a camera on them. The first of these on TV was probably in the first society to have Public TV broadcasting (which oddly enough was Nazi Germany). Examples-The Real World, The Osbournes, Airport, Club 18-30 reps etc. In this category I would also put the "I can't belive its not soft porn" stuff, like G-String Divas, Real Sex and all the other **** you see on channel 5 over here.

2. The type where people are put into a situation of the TV producers making and their actions are recorded. Don't know the first one. Big Brother was the first one to take off but there was a spate of these during the 90s in Britain, normally with some spurious scientific justification e.g. The Tourist Trap, which looked at different nationalities on holiday. Castaways was another early example. Way before all that you had one back in the 70s about modern people living in a mocked up Iron Age settlement in dorset or somewhere. Big Brother was a more blatant variation on this in that it dropped all the pretense, having more of a quiz/light entertainment format. In this I would put Survivor, big brother / celebrity spin offs like the Surreal world, Fame Academy, that Moronic one on BBC2 that was based on the stanford Prison experiment, etc.

Then there are all the miscellaneous bizarre variations and hybrids, Wife Swap, Faking it, X-Factor (I'll admit to quite enjoying the last 3), and all the other weirdness.

Note, none of this is directly attributable to America or Americans.

tzeentchgiant
03-09-2005, 23:56
Did you get that off a programme about chavs?

If so, considering how much crap was said in that film, I wouldn't be sure about the 'fact'.

-Wez

No in fact I did not get that particular piece of information from there, I watched something else that gave me this piece of info, can't remember, but I will look it up if you wish.

And with concerns to the programme to which I think you are refering, I started watching it, but it became very quickly, the only thing I have ever turned away from because I disagreed so strongly with the presenter (stupid cow), and could feel, just by watching, my IQ slip down (into the hundreds ;) ).

TG

The pestilent 1
04-09-2005, 00:00
i found that particular "documentary" to be like a train crash.
i knew it was wrong.
i knew i shouldnt.
but i couldnt help but watch.
still, it was quite funny.
I hate them because im jelous of them apparently :rolleyes:
the hard working folk of this great nation indeed :D

tzeentchgiant
04-09-2005, 00:02
The youth don't work, they may be working class, that isn't why that paricular brand of scum is scum, jealous indeed.

TG

Kohhna
04-09-2005, 00:03
I've yet to see it (hasn't been on terrestrial afaik). But I do hate Julie Burchill already, both as a columist and a person, Sugar Rush was pretty bad as well.

tzeentchgiant
04-09-2005, 00:07
She's made a new documentary about reality TV, I don't know if it's been aired yet, but after her first attrocity against man kind, I won't be viewing it, and infact, I will make a point of avoiding it.

TG

The pestilent 1
04-09-2005, 00:19
its on today (that being sunday)
i will make a note of not sleeping tonight so i dont again suffer from Tws.
or TraiWreck syndrome, wherin i feel obliged to watch that trash, like how some people feel morally obligated to listen to the nutters screaming about Guranga in Chesterfield.

WLBjork
04-09-2005, 08:37
Heh. Double edged sword there.

All the Americans I know are great folks, couldn't know better people.

Unfortunately, all that tends to show up in public here are the stereotypical loud-mouthed, usually fat, tourists - well, at least they're the ones that get noticed the most...

TV - I never use TV (or any news info) to judge the USA by, as they tend to paint a different picture to actuality. Maybe the old Hill Street Blues and NYPD Blue are the most accurate, from what I've learned from American Cops.

Pillx
04-09-2005, 10:59
Hmm. I'm of the opinion that people are about the same all over at the base. You'll get good people and you'll get bad people. Quite frankly, when I see someone do something good or terrible, I don't think of them in terms of nationality. More in terms of humans as a species. We're all capable of being "angels" or "demons." As far as nations are concerned, I think it's often a game governments play more so than a game people play (ie: it's not one person at the wheel of the clown car and often that car drives itself.)


.

Strictly Commercial
04-09-2005, 12:05
Americans. Well, they're not the smartest people around, but some of them are ok.

I'm not trying to isolate one single throwaway line you wrote in order to pick a fight, but I feel like I wanted to respond to this one. I recently looked over the Nobel Prize winners because we had to write a research paper on Nobel material and I remember seeing a disproportionate number of Americans winning the Nobel Prize in the last ten to 15 years. I didn't make an exact count but I was quite surprised since CERN tends to have the reputation for Physics research where the U.S. is largely unsung. Anyway, the numbers spoke pretty well, although I understand that this isn't an absolute marker of who has the most intelligent population, but it certainly argues against this stereotype.

If anyone can find a site that has that information (which I can't find just now) it may shed more light and show whether my info is accurate or not. BTW I'm not referring to any of those Daffy Duck Nobel prizes. I mean the real Nobel Prizes that involve scientific research (Chemistry, Physics, and Medicine).

Strictly Commercial
04-09-2005, 12:16
Another myth that bugs me is that Americans are in worse shape than those in other countries. I recently read a magazine that earmarked the top 100 bench presses of all time. The top 99 were performed by Americans. Not the Russians, not the Germans, not Samoans, but Americans, with Gene Rychlak leading the top with 1005. That says a lot about our training methods and work ethic, I think. (This magazine was about four months old when I read it, some time earlier this summer, so there may be an updated list somewhere).

On the flip side, there is one criticism that I tend to think is valid (not really related to this topic but hey, at least its on thread). Americans should be required to learn more than English in school. Almost every developed country in the world requires students to be multilingual, so we should as well. Now, foreign languages are offered, and a lot of students learn them, but I would like to see it required, because it is a limitation that needs to be changed.

Strictly Commercial
04-09-2005, 12:22
Okay, last thread on this topic for the night. Guys (and girls), you need to just shut the TV off, okay? That sort of thing should just transcend nationalities. Kill your TV (but revive it to play XBox), and let your life begin.

Ravening Wh0re
04-09-2005, 12:35
Another myth that bugs me is that Americans are in worse shape than those in other countries. I recently read a magazine that earmarked the top 100 bench presses of all time. The top 99 were performed by Americans. Not the Russians, not the Germans, not Samoans, but Americans, with Gene Rychlak leading the top with 1005. That says a lot about our training methods and work ethic, I think. (This magazine was about four months old when I read it, some time earlier this summer, so there may be an updated list somewhere).

But these are athletes.
We are talking about the general populace. And on the whole Americans are "bigger" (weight)than most other countries.
Unfortunately, it's happening to Brits too.
I guess it's just down to diets, US food having a lot more fats and sugars in it.
I was told that schools in America have soda machines! Madness!
So, from a young age, they are indoctrinated into consume vast amounts of sweet things. It really isn't the fault of the kids :(

My cousin and his GF came to visit me (in HK)a couple of weeks back. They were surpise to see that there weren't that many fat people here. And it's not anyrhing to do with lack of food, since you can't walk 5 metres without seeing some kind of place where you can eat or drink (people here love food).

I thought my cousin was a bit of a fatty actually, but he's considered normal back at home.

tzeentchgiant
04-09-2005, 12:38
Strictly Commercial, first off, edit your posts, double posting is not permitted, you've been here for long enough to have noticed the edit button.

And with concerns to all your facts, well America, lets not forget, ahs a far larger population than most other contries, so you can argue America has more of this or that, but proportionally it may not be so, you have proven that statistics must be taken with a pinch of salt, as they may not always actually show what you want, if a peice of vital information is missed out.

People here aren't trying to discredit Americans for what they have acheived, but those who say what you are responding to do have a point, in general terms sometimes those statements are true.

Anyway, don't double post again, and at least post sensibly, what was that last one about, you getting angry and sarcy because of this thread causing you to basically spam repeatedly.

TG

fracas
04-09-2005, 12:41
Er, huh? Maybe it's because you're from Asia but such a thing does not exist here. The "hate" only really got started because of the War in Iraq and you'd find that aside from some dumbasses most people just feel sorry for Americans.
didn't say hate
in fact, i think the america sucks attitude is predominantly from europe

and it preceded the Iraq war. shortly after 911 there were popular concensus that America deserved it. Similar to the sentiments some have expressed in Europe that America deserved Katrina.

And the feeling sorry for America is not any different from America sucks attitude.

Wiseman
04-09-2005, 12:43
now strictly commercial, remember the population of america and the facilities available to those with money, they can afford the best compared to so many countries where people cant afford such good facilities. Though just because some americans are strong and fit, doesnt mean they all do, just like because Beckham makes millions from advertising and is a brilliant footballer doesnt make the entire british population rich and brilliant footballers. 1 among millions. Americans ARE the fatest in the world. Fact.

Strictly Commercial
04-09-2005, 12:46
Anyway, don't double post again, and at least post sensibly, what was that last one about, you getting angry and sarcy because of this thread causing you to basically spam repeatedly.

No, I'm just teasing the guys about watching TV. I don't get overly angry about stuff and like I tried to say in my posts, none of this was taken personal or anything. Try not to read so much into it. You can't type in the same voice as you speak with so only a tool would attempt sarcasm on boards since it doesn't work (and I think sarcasm tends to be for those who can't come up with anything genuinely humorous, but that's another topic).

Anyway, I don't consider it double posting since each post contains quite different material. Double posting is accidentally repeating the content of the same post, as I understand it.

Wiseman
04-09-2005, 12:56
no but posting after yourself is a double post and it is frowned upon by inquisitors

Strictly Commercial
04-09-2005, 13:00
Ah, well, thanks for the warning. I certainly am not just trying to boost my post count, there's just a lot of info to post on this topic and it seemed logical to keep it separate, lest it become a rambling, unrelated set of statements.

tzeentchgiant
04-09-2005, 13:05
Try not to read so much into it.

Sorry, this is my morning mind thinking, or not thinking,

Carry on

TG

Wiseman
04-09-2005, 13:13
its cool for the warning, and warseer is known for its rambling unrelated set of statements.

Strictly Commercial
04-09-2005, 14:03
Yeah, it's all good. Anyway, I thought of something else that seems to cause some confusion.

It seems Europeans are somewhat resentful of our involvement in WWII, because we are seen as sending few troops but claiming a lot of credit. Well, Americans do believe we contributed significantly to the outcome of WWII, but hardly anybody here thinks of WWII in terms of Europe. Most of the time WWII is thought of in terms of the Pacific Theatre of Operations, because there were a large number of battles in which American forces faced Nipponese forces alone. (Not forgetting the involvement of others, that war was just so doggone big). And, the Nipponese actually made it onto our soil, so the Germans are seen as more of a "side threat" than anything else because once we started working with the Brits to neutralize their u-boats there was far less concern about them (I know it was hardly a pinpoint of land the Japanese occupied, but still, it is more significant than the German threat).

There are a few less than knowledgeable folks who seem to think the Nazis lost because we entered but for the most part, we tend to credit ourselves with the defeat of Japan and the freeing of China and the South Pacific, perhaps a little to the detriment of allies, but nothing on that scale of blowhardedness that Europeans often appear to perceive.

anarchistica
04-09-2005, 14:16
I'm not trying to isolate one single throwaway line you wrote in order to pick a fight
I'm not trying to pick a fight, this is a well known fact.


Anyway, the numbers spoke pretty well, although I understand that this isn't an absolute marker of who has the most intelligent population, but it certainly argues against this stereotype.
No, it means absolutely nothing. According to researches by organisations like National Geographic, Americans know less about (for instance) geography than people from the same age group from other countries. There was a research done by NG a few years ago, focusing on geography (duh). They took groups of man and women aging 16 to 35 from various countries (including Mexico, some European countries, etc) and asked them some rather simple questions. Some of the most shocking results: In this group, 33% of the Americans thought America had a population of at least a billion (around that time it was actually about 270 million). All the foreign groups did better. When asked to point out America on a world map, more non-Americans than Americans pointed at the right country. Also, most Americans knew where Survivor took place, but only about a quarter of them could say where the Taliban lived (this was post 9-11).

And i'm not even mentioning that one CNNN clip with Americans asking who were throwing the rocks (Israelis or Palestinians), guessing there were about 10 Eiffel Towers and saying Arafat was in charge of Al-Quaida. :p

Don't worry though, kids everywhere are getting dumber and Japan seriously messed up it's educational system (you cannot be removed from a class and you never double a year) so if they (highest average IQ) fall the rest will surely follow.


didn't say hate. in fact, i think the america sucks attitude is predominantly from europe
Er...no, it's predominately from Middle-Eastern countries. Also, you forget Europeans are not quite as interested in being childish as some Americans seem to be. We did not rename food because we didn't like a decision of the government of the country it was named after (as an insult!). We have no 'O Reilly who made up stories about countries suffering from a US boycot, nor any Coulters (clever wordplay, eh? :p) giving the US's greatest trading partners flak. No one here even considered sending an American gift back (a tiny group wanted to send the Statue of Liberty back).

Some countries, and certainly not all or even most of them, simply didn't agree with a decision made by the US government. Somehow in America this was considered to be insulting or otherwise unwanted by roughly half the people. Of course, it didn't help that Bush, like nazi big cheese Herman Göring, said: "Either you're with us, or you're against us".

I can assure you that very few -if any- Europeans have problems with America(ns), but many might have problems with some decisions made by it's government. We drink Pepsi and Coke, we watch the crap Hollywood churns out these days, we listen to 20 cents, BEP and miss Clarkson, we wear nikees and some of us were and are in Afghanistan and Iraq too (Holland, UK, Poland, Spain, Italy, etc).

We don't think you suck, we just think getting into yet another guerilla war wasn't the best idea in the world, especially not with the overwhelming lack of evidence to support this. We think that thinking before acting helps alot, it gives you time to train your soldiers to recognize the Union Jack and to learn not to take women hostage.


and it preceded the Iraq war. shortly after 911 there were popular concensus that America deserved it.
I haven't heard many Europeans say you deserved it,. but most of them agree you had it coming (Beslan was Russia's 9-11 too). And not just because warnings from France, Russia, Saudi-Arabia, a bunch of other countries and freaking Al-Quaida traitors were ignored.


Similar to the sentiments some have expressed in Europe that America deserved Katrina.
Funny how i've only heard this coming from Americans. Did Bill 'O Reilly do a report on this or something? I haven't heard a single person voice such an opinion here.


And the feeling sorry for America is not any different from America sucks attitude.
Yes, because not being ok with some mislead and poorly trained kids going into a guerilla war just so they can fund going to college equals thinking a country sucks. We celebrate every American death with pie. :rolleyes:

/rant

To sum it up: America doesn't suck, it just screws up sometimes.

fracas
04-09-2005, 15:50
Anarchista
your last post speaks for itself regarding the blind biased anti-american indoctrination.

especially this part regarding anti-americanism and 9-11 vs iraq vs katrina

I haven't heard many Europeans say you deserved it,. but most of them agree you had it coming (Beslan was Russia's 9-11 too). And not just because warnings from France, Russia, Saudi-Arabia, a bunch of other countries and freaking Al-Quaida traitors were ignored.

certainly an enlightening post :rolleyes:

alterion
04-09-2005, 17:18
i like 49% of americans.. the others voted bush.. I have tried to cut down on my america baiting because its easier and strangley more satisfying to bait the french (who have done nothing to deserve it)... its just som of the things that america does that really irritate me.. i will admit that even after 9/11 or after katrina started to beacome a fiasco as bush realised most of his troops were in iraq i like many other liberals felt the surge of they had it coming tendacies ..but then you realise that all that has happened is hundreds of innocents who had no part in anything and didn't deserve it are/have suffered terribly and thhe real reason tha people hate america anadits government is that it stands as a sign of gross perversion of democracy and as a capitalist satte that the rest of the world now feels jelous of because they are more succesfull than us. The best way to explain my anti-american feeling would be a conversation i over-herad at yellowstrone national park between a man and his wife around midday that wen't something like this (the man was probably more tactful than this.)
Man: we've just driven for 2 hours from our hotel to this spot on a holiday we planned for months. .. the things here are one opf the great wonders of the wourld and completley un-like anything we have ever seen before and now your telling me you don;t want to get out of the car and walk the 100 yards to the wheelchair accesable boarwalk to even see it because (didn't here the reason but form the man's reaction must have ben poor.)
Man: ohg for f++++ sake.. gets back into car and drives off"
Don't get me satrted on the WW2 thing Japan was no where near as big a threat as Germany was and by the ttime America joined the war i europe was already as good as won. With the exceptinon of rommel most of the german commanders were no-where near as good and their allied counterparts. with the breaking of enigma and chaffinch and the u-boat code. This may be a fantastically generallistic statement but is brodadlly true. And i am not replying to this because the problem with arguing over the net is that most peopl turn out to either be (or be indestiguisahble from ) self-righteous 16 year old's with way to much free time on thier hands for there own good that should be spent playing 40k

Getz
05-09-2005, 01:57
Don't get me satrted on the WW2 thing Japan was no where near as big a threat as Germany was and by the ttime America joined the war i europe was already as good as won. With the exceptinon of rommel most of the german commanders were no-where near as good and their allied counterparts. with the breaking of enigma and chaffinch and the u-boat code. This may be a fantastically generallistic statement but is brodadlly true. And i am not replying to this because the problem with arguing over the net is that most peopl turn out to either be (or be indestiguisahble from ) self-righteous 16 year old's with way to much free time on thier hands for there own good that should be spent playing 40k

Um, probably best not to goany further there as although I apreciate that this is the way that you see things, you've said said a lot of things that are factually wrong. Suffice it to say that the fact of the matter is we (the west Europeans) would never have won without US assistance - but the Russians probably would have ultimately defeated the Germans either with or without us...

As for the Pacific War, European (mostly British but there were others such as the Free French and Dutch, not to mention the Commonwealth nations) military aid was deliberately left out of overall strategic planning by the (almost entirely American) Joint Chiefs of Staff... This was almost entirely done for reasons of US pride and prestige and was actually an extremely foolish act. The Royal Navy could place almost all of her main battlefleet strength at the disposal of the Allies in the Pacific from about 1943 onwards - a significant number of vessels easily the match of anything The American or Japanese Fleet possessed - but they were never properly used.

Lets not forget who fought in Burma as well - it sure as hell wasn't the US army.

In short, the extensive European and Commonwealth involvement in the Pacific War has been largely airbrushed from the History books, but the US couldn't have done it without us, just as we couldn't have triumphed in Europe without them.

Kensai X
05-09-2005, 02:39
didn't say hate
Similar to the sentiments some have expressed in Europe that America deserved Katrina.


If anyone thinks that America deserved Katrina, Hell if anyone deserved something like that, they have no right to call themselves men. They are just slime at the bottom of society, no one in the world could possibly deserve something like Hurricane Katrina. I've just come back from New Orleans and it's in total anarchy, theirs dead lying in the street, children aimlessly wandering trying to understand why they can't find they're parents, and grown men crying from the wake of destruction. Katrina has destroyed the lives of thousands, and apparently some half **** for brains in Europe dare to say we deserved it...

Katrina isn't just something on the news passing us by on the television screens, it's personal to us. Many have lost wives, children, brothers, mothers, and friends of which I've personally lost four close ones who were trying to protect they're fellow countrymen by contructing sand bag walls stubbornly trying to defend the city. I thank god I was able to find my fiance in all that mess and get her out of the city and driving away I had to look at the thousands along the street who watched their lives melt away in the rising waters...

If anyone thinks anybody could possibly deserve that then I ask you. What makes your country so superior that you can look down on America and curse it? What have you done to help your countrymen to make not only your life and those of your immediate aqquatinces better, but those of fellow a race who still yet breath the same air you do? Why do you critisize others for their imperfections looking past the ideal of creating a unity to help the world become a better place?

Simply put; How can you say your better than another based on what flags flys above him?

Son of Morkai
05-09-2005, 02:53
*applause*

Well said. Glad to hear you found her.

Wiseman
05-09-2005, 06:54
Anarchista
your last post speaks for itself regarding the blind biased anti-american indoctrination.

he's right though, america did get plenty of warnings yet they seemed to ignore them

alterion
05-09-2005, 08:16
getz our commanders were better than thiers generally (though i pointed out there are some exceptions like rommel. I was including russia as an ally and while d-day landings and such would probably never have happened without the usa russia would probably have ground though europe .. now wether they would have left us with sovergin independant states is another matter entierly. I would argue that fundamentally the allies won the war in the end because we produced more strategicaly significant technology than the east (breaking of indigo and enigma , manhattan project and radiation lab). However i didn;t know about the reasons the royal navy was left out of the pacific war or any of that stuff and i apperciate that my wording was terrible

Wez
05-09-2005, 08:26
I thank god I was able to find my fiance in all that mess and get her out of the city and driving away I had to look at the thousands along the street who watched their lives melt away in the rising waters...
Good to hear.:)

However, how can you thank God for that? Surely if he's responsible for the safe return, he's responsible for Katrina in the first place? Or was it just a matter of speech.


If anyone thinks anybody could possibly deserve that then I ask you. What makes your country so superior that you can look down on America and curse it? What have you done to help your countrymen to make not only your life and those of your immediate aqquatinces better, but those of fellow a race who still yet breath the same air you do?
No-ones really been 'bashing' America, as in the populace.


Why do you critisize others for their imperfections looking past the ideal of creating a unity to help the world become a better place?
*splutters*

Countries very rarely do 'nice' things, if there’s nothing in it for them.


certainly an enlightening post
He has a point though: there is a lot of hate against the US out there. If 9/11 didn't happen, something else probably would within the next decade.


getz our commanders were better than thiers generally
The Russians had better commanders than the Germans? :wtf:

-Wez

alterion
05-09-2005, 08:58
ahh.. true wez .. once agin i make a big mistake.. when i say commanders i think of western ones forgetting the idiots from russia.. so scrap that point then :( :p

Bruen
05-09-2005, 09:00
Similar to the sentiments some have expressed in Europe that America deserved Katrina.

The main group of people that I have seen saying that the US deserved Katrina are US right-wingers trying to stir up more antagonism between the continents.

Perhaps you would care to give some quotes from reputable sources (ie not bloggers board members) stating that there is a sentiment in Europe that the US deserved Katrina?

Strictly Commercial
05-09-2005, 09:15
Don't get me satrted on the WW2 thing Japan was no where near as big a threat as Germany was

Imperial Japan wiped out uncountable numbers of Chinese, Indonesians, Eastern Russians, etc. Plus, the average Nipponese soldier was far more dedicated and motivated than your average German, of whom numerous surrendered. Almost all of the Nipponese would die before such an ignoble fate. One can argue that German technology was ahead of the Japanese, but the technology Japan used was certainly suited for the environment in which they fought. So, the presence of U.S. forces in the South Pacific was probably concentrated in the right place.

It could all be a matter of perspective of course. Nobody is downplaying the suffering that Germany wrought on Europe, but ask the Chinese, Australians, or Filipinos who were the bigger threat and they certainly aren't going to say Germany.

alterion
05-09-2005, 09:21
fair enough.. i guess it is all a matter of perspective .. seems my ww2 knowledge is being carefully demolished. I guess i need to wathch the history channel more often

Getz
05-09-2005, 12:35
The main group of people that I have seen saying that the US deserved Katrina are US right-wingers trying to stir up more antagonism between the continents.

Perhaps you would care to give some quotes from reputable sources (ie not bloggers board members) stating that there is a sentiment in Europe that the US deserved Katrina?

Nobody that I am aware of thinks the US "Deserved" Katrina, and I'd like to extend my deepest sympathies to all those involved. To suggest we felt otherwisde is preposterous, no sane person in Europe hates America so much that they'd take the slightest bit of pleasure from a natural Catastrophy like this.

We didn't think you deserved 9/11 either, I would suggest we simply weren't as surprised as the average US citzen seemed to be that there are people out there who hate all Western Civilisation enough to do such a thing...

Shadowheart
05-09-2005, 15:32
Once again, there's a difference to be observed between nations and people. I think some people felt America as a nation had these things coming to it, and many derived some satisfaction from seeing the political aftermath of the events unfold. That does not mean they were in any way pleased about what befell the victims of the attacks, the war and the hurricane. A dislike for American politics and culture doesn't equate blind hatred for all Americans.
It's terrible that all this unneccesary suffering has to be endured by the (poor and black) people of New Orleans and the affected area in general, but it is good to see the American people waking up and starting to put some severe pressure on those responsible for this state of affairs.

anarchistica
05-09-2005, 18:55
Anarchista
your last post speaks for itself regarding the blind biased anti-american indoctrination.
LOL! Dude, can't you go back to cutting yourself and whining about everyone hating you like a proper goth? Everything i mentioned is based on facts and you have not even tried to whip up anything to support your points. Give me one source involving Europeans saying you deserved Katrina. One.


especially this part regarding anti-americanism and 9-11 vs iraq vs katrina
That's the truth you dumbass. If you keep screwing with people, eventually they'll screw you over too. Remember who trained and equiped the Taliban? Remember who sent freaking Rambo to help those poor Mujahedin? Remember who shook Saddam's hand 2 decades ago? Remember who funded and equiped him to fight Iran? Not to mention the countless other things (Israel, etc). Sure, 9-11 was a disaster, but you had it coming (and you were warned countless times). Sure Beslan was fecked up, but the Russians have murdered between 200.000 (according to Russian government) and 250.000 (according to Chechyen leaders) Chechyens during the last three centuries, among whom at least 20.000 children. The amount of children murdered in Beslan doesn't even add up to 1% of that, and that's the lowest estimate.

And pffffffffffft @ anti-Americanism. Let say i hate America, yes? Oh and of course, George Walker Bush loves them. I opposed the invasion by the Coalition (i was all for military action, just not for blindly rushing in). Aside from the 55.000-57.000 Iraqis killed in this war, nearly 1900 American soldiers were killed and anywhere between 10.000 and 40.000 wounded, including those that lost limbs, became paralysed, traumatised, blinded, deafened, etc. America has a volunteer army, yes? They use commercial bureaus to recruit people. These get addresses, phone numbers and such so they can harass/spam people. The Army decided to do this because the recruiters for some magical reason couldn't get any new recruits, despite often going to great lengths to "convince" people (i.e. they tell them they will go to jail if they refuse, etc). These recruits are often kids who can't afford going to college. They get a bonus (couple thousand dollars) and they're told they're serving their country. Then they send them to Iraq, poorly informed, poorly equiped and poorly led. Nearly 2000 of them have been killed, a huge amount of these deaths could've been prevented by "for instance" not disbanding the Iraqi army, telling them not to screw with people (i.e. don't torture innocents, don't take women hostage to get at someone else) and learning them some pretty basic things like recognising allies. They did get some training involving the latter, but apparently it wasn't sufficient because a few months ago they recieved additional ally-recognition training. To give you an idea: Brittish soldiers often approach control posts waving the Union Jack and shouting "we're bloody Brittish, we are!". If the Americans don't recognise their flag or horrible accent and start shooting, the Brits have been instructed to turn around and speed away immediately (this is no joke).

Now say you're a lucky American soldier. You caused some accidents, but sped right past them. You were in some accidents, but the helicopter picked you up leaving the others to care for themselves. You tortured some innocents were Saddam liked to do the same. You arrested some people and left them in the blinding sun for hours, sitting on their knees with a cap over their heads, just because they were within 500 metres of the area a RPG was shot from. You held a dozen women hostage to try to make a suspected terrorist hiding in a house to surrender himself, though you did release them after the entire village complained. You shot some of those guys waving an obviously fake American flag with obviously fake American accents. You put some bullets in families approaching your control post in cars. Etc. Now you're lucky, and you only lose a leg. You return to your country, expecting to be treated as a hero and what happens? Because you did not serve the required amount of time, you have to repay the bonus they gave you to go there, you can't do any work because you're crippled and social security... what's that again? But we're proud of you, rilly! And Bush loves you too! His daddy made a huge amount of money with his stock fund (the Bin Laden family too), his buds were able to sell the people of America weapons worth tens of millions of dollars and he himself got re-elected.

I wonder if that soldier would rather have had my hate or Bush's love.

And please, call me America-basher, almost all of this was suggested/brought up by Americans and they'll love to hear from you they hate their country because they opposed a war that ruined countless lives.

(yeah yeah, this is political, move it to p&r if you must :p)

Strictly Commercial
06-09-2005, 06:50
The only way anybody could say we deserved 9/11 is if one argued that we didn't take appropriate steps to prevent it, like putting the effort into nabbing al Qaeda before they forced our hand with an attack too big to ignore. I mean, if naval vessels, embassies, and the WTC (in 1993) weren't enough justification, then I don't know what is.

I had difficulty discerning the intent of your post, is that what you mean by saying we had it coming?

Wez
06-09-2005, 07:08
The only way anybody could say we deserved 9/11 is if one argued that we didn't take appropriate steps to prevent it, like putting the effort into nabbing al Qaeda before they forced our hand with an attack too big to ignore. I mean, if naval vessels, embassies, and the WTC (in 1993) weren't enough justification, then I don't know what is.

I had difficulty discerning the intent of your post, is that what you mean by saying we had it coming?
Depends what you mean by deserved. I doubt many Europeans think that those people deserved to die. I do expect that many Europeans felt that a large attack was inevitable.

-Wez

anarchistica
06-09-2005, 11:21
I had difficulty discerning the intent of your post, is that what you mean by saying we had it coming?
It was bound to happen and nothing was done to prevent this. And by preventing i don't mean the rightist kind (throwing bombs at random, praying that you hit something) but the kinda where you stop screwing with people. Usually, if you stop screwing with people, they won't feel the need to screw back. America and it's little band of half-forced allies did the opposite, which resulted in bombings in London, etc. Hell, the whole terrorist/suicide bombing thing has been researched a while ago and unless you'd think most terrorist/suicide bombers aren't poorly intergrated kids from poverised areas who see it as their only way out or to get revenge, they're more often well integrated (one of the London bombers was a cricket addict) kids with a decent education who have a problem with people occupying certain countries.

Scactha
06-09-2005, 11:24
Americans seems convinced that

a) everyone is out to get them

b) everyone envies their way of life

The sad thing neither is true. I think most people just wish they wound down some.

Wez
06-09-2005, 14:49
Americans seems convinced that

a) everyone is out to get them

b) everyone envies their way of life

The sad thing neither is true. I think most people just wish they wound down some.
Nice generalisations. :eyebrows:

-Wez

Scabby
06-09-2005, 17:16
Errrr... where is this P&R board?

Wraith
06-09-2005, 17:22
It was made guilder only a long while ago...

Lab Monkey
07-09-2005, 09:01
Don't really like their arrogant way of looking towards other countries.

And the Dutch DID invent reality tv... sorry :rolleyes:

tzeentchgiant
07-09-2005, 12:30
I'm afraid they didn't, although I would love you to bear the responsiblity for it, the British beat you to it.

TG

Strictly Commercial
07-09-2005, 13:32
It was bound to happen and nothing was done to prevent this. And by preventing i don't mean the rightist kind (throwing bombs at random, praying that you hit something) but the kinda where you stop screwing with people. Usually, if you stop screwing with people, they won't feel the need to screw back. America and it's little band of half-forced allies did the opposite, which resulted in bombings in London, etc. Hell, the whole terrorist/suicide bombing thing has been researched a while ago and unless you'd think most terrorist/suicide bombers aren't poorly intergrated kids from poverised areas who see it as their only way out or to get revenge, they're more often well integrated (one of the London bombers was a cricket addict) kids with a decent education who have a problem with people occupying certain countries.

Except, we weren't occupying Saudi Arabia, we weren't occupying Afghanistan, and in fact we had no occupying force for any country in the Middle East except Iraq, and that can be blamed on the U.N. with their half step measures insisting on British and American presence. Anybody who thinks that kind of action is justified (talking about al Quaeda here) based on our country "withholding aid" better come up with a more convincing story than that.

Shadowheart
07-09-2005, 13:35
Well, we did bring reality television to a whole new level of horror with "big brother", which immediately proceeded to spread across the globe and produce clones of itself. But reality tv as such I don't think was a Dutch invention, just the concept of filming people every last moment of the day while they sit around being absolutely uninteresting. The latest step has been to get a pregnant woman in there and wait for her to give birth.

Lord Lucifer
07-09-2005, 14:21
Anar, Strictly Commercial, it'd be great if you two picked up Guilderships for access to P&R :)

I'm not saying that to be a prick or drum up revenue, but rather that it'd be great to have you two contributing there to bulk out the discussions and offer more views.


But aside from that, lets try to keep politics and religion to a minimum here. And off-topic comments over who was first to unleash reality television.

And hopefully some more unique responses. This thread may have run its course

Alco Engineer
07-09-2005, 22:54
If there aren't any more interesting posts in the next 24hours or so I'm going to close this one off. I think it's just about ran its dash also.

5upr3m3 h4xx0rz
07-09-2005, 23:12
I HATE it when people try to make sweeping generalizations about the people of one country. Just because i live in the US doesnt mean im an arrogant prick! People...as hard as it may be to believe, we in america are allowed to think for ourselves, unlike the people from many other countries! I say this because every summer i spend two months in europe, one in greece, and one between holland/germany/france/italy, etc, and i watch the news, and i can feel the anti-americanism there in my room. I get **** everywhere i go for being american (except for greece, they seem to be a little more open-minded). Now, i know many of you think that the US is the worst country in the world, and that bush is the worst person in the world, but im telling you from my experiences of growing up in thsi country (even though i was not born here) that the first is DEFINITELY not true, but the second is true. Bush isnt the greatest president ever, in fact he is probably one of the worst with his father, but that is NO REASON to hate all of america. If you say you hate all of america...then you should take your stupid *********** ignorance and shove it up your ass....i wont take that crap. Open up your *********** minds....america is NOT the devil that 95% of all countries media makes it seem. Maybe, before you start pulling this stupid **** info out of your ass, you could come over here to america to check out what americans really are like. And i dont mean go to some new york or chicago...come to maryland or california, where the real america is.

Anarchistica, you cant blame all the bombings on the Americans. The london bombings were not our fault....it was your fault. Your government followed the US in their stupid pointless war, and thats what you got. Im not saying that im happy about what happened, i feel the opposite, i hate what happened, but you cant go around blaming america for everything. At least be a man and take some responsibility for what your actions have led too.....if you were ready to follow us into iraq (and there was no need to, you shouldnt have) then you were ready to deal with the inevitable consequences.

EDIT: Yes, i am pissed, but not as angry as i sound. I got suspended from school for skipping school (i felt like sleeping instead of learning yesterday, oh well).

anarchistica
08-09-2005, 00:25
i watch the news, and i can feel the anti-americanism there in my room.
Define "anti-Americanism".


Now, i know many of you think that the US is the worst country in the world
For feths sake, that's not how it works. We Europeans (together with the Americans) divided the planet up in 3 parts: The first, second and third world. We're the first, the poorest countries make up the third and the second world are in between (mostly eastern europe). We don't expect much from the second and third world. Russia, China, Iran, etc are all quite messed up, but they aren't part of the first world, they don't pretend to be the best, nicest, friendliest, etc. We do expect from first world countries that they behave reasonably and don't insult us with obvious lies. Bombing citizens (an American invention too btw), invading and occupying a harmless country, torturing, lying, misleading, etc are all things we do not consider to be acceptable and though we know Russia and China might do such things (they don't, but ok) we don't expect it from the country that portrats itself as being all about freedom and democracy.


that bush is the worst person in the world
This guy is not only profiting from the deaths of others, he's also allowing his dad and their friends to join in. He doesn't even have the decency to make up some good lies. Bush not only allowed Al-Quaida to kill 3000 Americans, he also started two wars that killed over 70,000 people not to mention the incredible amount of Africans that have AIDS because Bush and the Pope think there's something like a soul and it exists in sperm.


I get **** everywhere i go for being american
Define "getting ****".


but that is NO REASON to hate all of america. If you say you hate all of america...america is NOT the devil that 95% of all countries media makes it seem.

Maybe, before you start pulling this stupid **** info out of your ass, you could come over here to america to check out what americans really are like.
Who says they hate all of America? Only half the Americans voted for Bush, maybe they just hate him? Who knows what they mean with "America"?


Anarchistica, you cant blame all the bombings on the Americans. The london bombings were not our fault....it was your fault.
Woa, the London bombings were the fault of the Dutch? :wtf:


Your government followed the US in their stupid pointless war, and thats what you got.
Not exactly. The Brittish followed the US, we just approved of it. Later on we sent some troops to protect the citizens from insurrectionists, Americans and Britts.


you cant go around blaming america for everything.
I don't think anyone blames America for everything, but they can be blamed for alot of things.


At least be a man and take some responsibility for what your actions have led too.....if you were ready to follow us into iraq (and there was no need to, you shouldnt have) then you were ready to deal with the inevitable consequences.
*won't say anything about Americans being ignorant*

5upr3m3 h4xx0rz
08-09-2005, 00:37
Son of a bitch (not directed to anyone) i cant believe i screwed up...im a little pissed at getting in trouble today, and its obvious i screwed up. I thought you were english. My bad.

anti-americanism-take a stab at it, i think youll work it out.


getting ****- people always "give me ****" (get angry at me, say stupid crap to me, etc) about being an american

i think it was closer to 5000 people who died in the WTC....

how is it ignorant for me to point out the facts? If you go to war, you (the english in this example) should expect some consequences. Not everyone comes home....but sometimes it is home that is it the hardest.

In fact, holland is the only country in europe i have been to where many people told me how great america was. I actually had some chic who wanted to s*ck me off because i was american (no, she wasnt a whore, and yes, this is 100% true.)

Alco Engineer
08-09-2005, 00:47
Alright guys, You've stepped over the line well and truly into P&R. Get guidship if you want to consider it but I'm not having more of my threads thrown to the wastes for the Chaos hounds to munch on.

This thread is closed.