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Hellbore
20-09-2007, 13:08
Today I found out something interesting.
While the word Imperium in latin literally means empire, it can also mean "to command/control", which I thought was rather apt.
So, when have you found tidbits like that where it shows that the writers are more than trained monkeys ;)

Slaaneshi Slave
20-09-2007, 13:30
Without trying to be overly padantic... You didn't know that?

de Selby
20-09-2007, 13:39
Pedantic would be pointing out that there's an 'e' in the word pedantic. What you are is patronising ;)

I enjoy the less obvious puns. Someone pointed out 'Ghazkull Mag Uruk Thraka' to me the other day, which I'm ashamed to say I never 'got' before.

Slaaneshi Slave
20-09-2007, 13:46
The Romans had Imperial Legions. They ran an Empire, and had an Emperor. Of course Imperium means Empire. I wasn't being patronising, I was just confused as to why he would bring it up.

Typing on this new laptop is bloody hard, I keep making silly spelling errors and typos. :P

gitburna
20-09-2007, 13:57
Pedantic would be pointing out that there's an 'e' in the word pedantic. What you are is patronising ;)

I enjoy the less obvious puns. Someone pointed out 'Ghazkull Mag Uruk Thraka' to me the other day, which I'm ashamed to say I never 'got' before.

What is this ghazgkull pun of which you speak de Selby ?

Hellbore
20-09-2007, 14:33
sorry, i seem to have confused you all,
the point was the second meaning the "to control/command" not the empire (which is obvious)
hope that clears things up :)
Selby: I would also like to know this Ghazghkull pun

Bookwrak
20-09-2007, 14:38
Yeah, I can't help but go :( at the op.

However, I'm highly amused by the Eldar calling humans 'monkeighs,' and the Tau referring to us as 'gue'la.' I'm waiting to find out that one race or another calls us 'ch'imps.'

Leunam
20-09-2007, 14:45
So, when have you found tidbits like that where it shows that the writers are more than trained monkeys ;)

Actually, a lot of terms that they use in 40k fluff is "not-really-latin-but-it-sounds-close-enough" latin. So to me, they're still trained monkeys. ;)

Chaplain Dionitas
20-09-2007, 14:58
You mean trained monkeys like mon-keigh?

insaniak
20-09-2007, 15:01
Actually, a lot of terms that they use in 40k fluff is "not-really-latin-but-it-sounds-close-enough" latin.

That would be because it's not supposed to be Latin.

There have been references in the fluff in the past that Imperial Gothic is based on Latin, with various other bits and pieces thrown in due to cultural variation. But they've never tried to make it pure Latin.

And after 40000 years, you can bet your socks there's going to be a certain amount of linguistic shift...

IJW
20-09-2007, 15:07
There have been references in the fluff in the past that Imperial Gothic is based on Latin, with various other bits and pieces thrown in due to cultural variation. But they've never tried to make it pure Latin.
One of the articles in WD around the time of the Rogue Trader release said something like 'It's not Latin just some other future language, but we used Latin as it gives the right feel of an archaic language that is still in use for certain purposes.'.

Jedi152
20-09-2007, 15:11
I'm sure anyone that's read Harry Potter will know that Imperium means 'to control' ... ;)


I enjoy the less obvious puns. Someone pointed out 'Ghazkull Mag Uruk Thraka' to me the other day, which I'm ashamed to say I never 'got' before.

What is this ghazgkull pun of which you speak de Selby ?

Selby: I would also like to know this Ghazghkull pun
I think it's to do with the fact it sounds like Margaret Thatcher, a former British Prime Minister.

IJW
20-09-2007, 15:13
Nah, that's 'Imperius'...

Chaplain Dionitas
20-09-2007, 15:15
En Gloriam Imperator

Jedi152
20-09-2007, 15:15
Nah, that's 'Imperius'...
Close enough for me! And Imperius is obviously a function of the word Imperium. :p

I love JK Rowling's latin and historical theft. My fiancee wondered how i worked out that professor Remus Lupin was a werewolf as soon i met him in the books!

:D

IJW
20-09-2007, 15:18
And there I was thinking he was a garden plant. ;)

stormblade
20-09-2007, 15:19
Imperium has an -um prefix which indicates that the word is a noun of neutral gender(neutrum) probably second declination.

Edit: I hate J.K. Rowling's naming philosophy, I do not like her book either.

Chaplain Dionitas
20-09-2007, 15:20
Close enough for me! And Imperius is obviously a function of the word Imperium. :p

I love JK Rowling's latin and historical theft. My fiancee wondered how i worked out that professor Remus Lupin was a werewolf as soon i met him in the books!

:D

It's a good thing he wasn't anyones uncle. ;)

Rotten
20-09-2007, 15:24
I think it's to do with the fact it sounds like Margaret Thatcher, a former British Prime Minister.

Come again? :wtf:

Jedi152
20-09-2007, 15:31
'Mag Uruk Thraka' sounds like Margaret Thatcher. Well it does to me, anyway. Could be coincidental, but i think that's what de Selby means.

Incidentally, did you know that on wikipedia Ghazgkull Thraka comes under fictional mass murderers?

Geetarman
20-09-2007, 15:33
'Mag Uruk Thraka' sounds like Margaret Thatcher. Well it does to me, anyway. Could be coincidental, but i think that's what de Selby means.

I see what you mean, I hope its not that though else thats a bit sucky...


Incidentally, did you know that on wikipedia Ghazgkull Thraka comes under fictional mass murderers?

Technically shouldnt all GW's special characters?

Gman

Rotten
20-09-2007, 15:34
Haha, cool! Waaaaagh! :D

I don't think Ghazhkull Mag Uruk Thraka sounds the slightest like Margareth Thatcher though... :p

Geetarman
20-09-2007, 15:37
Haha, cool! Waaaaagh! :D

I don't think Ghazhkull Mag Uruk Thraka sounds the slightest like Margareth Thatcher though... :p

Ignore the Ghazkhull bit...
Mag - Uruk - Thra - ka
Mar - garat - That - cha

Like I say though, if it is that its a bit lame... :(

Gman

Iracundus
20-09-2007, 16:24
Say those bits smoothly and quickly and it blurs into a reasonable approximation of Margaret Thatcher. It's a tongue in cheek reference so of course they're not going to necessarily have every syllable or sound identical.

Rotten
20-09-2007, 16:26
Well, that's the lamest pun I've ever heard... :rolleyes:

Jedi152
20-09-2007, 16:31
It is particularly lame, but then again it was just a name thought up off the bat by Andy Chambers as a generic warboss for his army that got made into a character.

He probably just watched her on the news or something...

lord_blackfang
20-09-2007, 16:32
One of the articles in WD around the time of the Rogue Trader release said something like 'It's not Latin just some other future language, but we used Latin as it gives the right feel of an archaic language that is still in use for certain purposes.'.

I always got the impression High Gothic was supposed to be English.

Vaulkhar
20-09-2007, 17:25
What's printed in English, French or whatever the local language is, is Low Gothic - the local language. High Gothic, in the fiction, serves the same purpose as Latin did through the Medieval and Renaissance periods, acting as a relatively static language to allow people from massively different backgrounds to communicate clearly. Whilst Low Gothic differs from world to world (particularly in slang and argot - asking a Catachan about Spook will means something very different to asking a Necromundan), High Gothic should be the same for both.

Gen.Steiner
20-09-2007, 17:41
Note about Ghazgkull M. U. Thraka, if it is a pun like that I can honestly say I'd rather be enslaved by a genocidal Orkoid maniac than have to suffer under Maggie Fatcher...

*crosses fingers and hopes thread doesn't get P&R Trained*

EmperorEternalXIX
20-09-2007, 17:45
I hope that's not the real gag behind the Warboss' name.

Mr Zephy
20-09-2007, 17:48
Not to mention:

An'sl, Mo'rcck,and Phraz-Etar - minor gods mentioned in older background material for Warhammer 40,000

The Nuns of Gavaronne - in a recent BL novel

And probably dozens more

Killgore
20-09-2007, 17:52
If they release a updated Ghazgul model im so modeling a hand bag on his base he he he

Norminator
20-09-2007, 18:00
The Ghazgul and Gue'la ones, being a ***** when it comes to puns, I have never noticed. Several of the Primarchs have names that are quite deep (like Lionel Johnson was a poet, who, IIRC, was secretly homosexual - mirroring the Dark Angels' deep secret).

Ozendorph
20-09-2007, 18:06
The "War on Terra" from the Black Templars book was pretty bad...

Vaulkhar
20-09-2007, 18:10
Actually, that was accidental (the Apostasy's close having been settled prior to 2001). I think...

Mr Zephy
20-09-2007, 18:20
Yes, but they could have called it the battle for Terra, or any name involving Vandire and not mentioning Terra at all.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
20-09-2007, 18:24
The Ghazgul and Gue'la ones, being a ***** when it comes to puns, I have never noticed. Several of the Primarchs have names that are quite deep (like Lionel Johnson was a poet, who, IIRC, was secretly homosexual - mirroring the Dark Angels' deep secret).

A-HA!! So that's why all the Dark Angels wear dresses!!

Ozendorph
20-09-2007, 18:29
Check out the poem "The Dark Angel" by Johnson if you want some insight on him and the background of the chapter (part of it is quoted in my sig). He was a pretty interesting and conflicted guy.

Green Shoes
20-09-2007, 18:31
The Nuns of Gavaronne - in a recent BL novel


That made me groan out loud...:rolleyes:

Tastyfish
20-09-2007, 18:40
What's printed in English, French or whatever the local language is, is Low Gothic - the local language. High Gothic, in the fiction, serves the same purpose as Latin did through the Medieval and Renaissance periods, acting as a relatively static language to allow people from massively different backgrounds to communicate clearly. Whilst Low Gothic differs from world to world (particularly in slang and argot - asking a Catachan about Spook will means something very different to asking a Necromundan), High Gothic should be the same for both.

Tech, the language the Adeptus Mechanicus use in their secret rituals is English.

High Gothic is an combination of English and Spanish merged together. Its pretty much a dead language other than being used by the priesthood (the original name for the AdAdmin) as a means of control, as such Latin is used to represent this.

Low Gothic is a debased form of High Gothic that has had pacific rim languages mixed in as well. Its the Imperium's version of D&D's common, its the trader's tongue and the langauge of spacers.

Below that, the planets will have their own dialects of low gothic and likely in many cases their own languages.

Norminator
20-09-2007, 18:45
The Nuns of Gavaronne - in a recent BL novel

I don't get it...

Tastyfish
20-09-2007, 18:46
The Guns of Navaronne is a famous war-movie

Ozendorph
20-09-2007, 18:46
And then there's hip-hop which, despite several Inquisitional bans, continues to thrive in many cultures and even seems to have pervaded Ork and Tau society.

"Kil dem beakies ded, foshizzle."

Gen.Steiner
20-09-2007, 19:11
And then there's hip-hop which ... seems to have pervaded Ork ... society

NO! Arrgh! This I cannot let pass! Ork is rendered in a pastiche of English football hooligan and general yob from the 1980s and 1990s, not anything to do with Hip-hop or R&B or anything like that at all... More skinhead and Oi! music than anything else.

Ozendorph
20-09-2007, 19:31
Sorry, brother. Greenskins have been sighted on multiple planets wearing sagging pants and mounting gaudy "spinners" on lowered battlewagons.

When questioned about this trend, one ork mekboy responded, "I got me brainz on me teef, and me teef on me brainz."

Imperial translators have yet to make any sense of the statement.

Tastyfish
20-09-2007, 19:35
'Ere we go, 'Ere we go, 'Ere we go!

Ya wrong. Nuff said.

Its very much football hooligans rather than hip hop, the date WFB came out, the chants, the attitudes and the slang all point to it.

Gen.Steiner
20-09-2007, 19:36
Den dey iz not Orks. It dat simple. We iz MEEN AN GREEN an we iz da ORKS! We won't 'ave none uv dis pansee dancin' abaht wiv 'spoilaz' an zog, we's content wiv boot levva an' more dakka!

Green Shoes
20-09-2007, 19:53
He's being sarcastic now, guys...

de Selby
20-09-2007, 20:00
The thing about puns is, the worse they are, the better they are. Old Ghazkull himself being named after the Iron Lady (and her iron bonce) is a terrible joke, and therefore brilliant

gitburna
22-09-2007, 12:48
hang on hang on, werent all the old warbosses and other ork characters made up from the old ork glyphs thing out of ere we go [or whatever it was called] I thought ghazguls name translated into something like "steel skull bad ass " or similar. Like how Nazdreg, Wazdakka and that runtherd [forgotten his name] were all sort of made up as well ?

Slaaneshi Slave
22-09-2007, 15:50
They might say it means that, but why do you think they named these things the way they did? GW had a sence of humour back then.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
22-09-2007, 16:06
Ignore the Ghazkhull bit...
Mag - Uruk - Thra - ka
Mar - garat - That - cha

Like I say though, if it is that its a bit lame... :(

Gman

Sadly it wasn't a Bolt Round to the head that triggered her little rampage. Just good old fashioned Tory Greed and a total disregard for the communities consigned to the dole!

The_Warsmith
22-09-2007, 16:09
it's not a pun but Abaddon is greek for destroyer

Slaaneshi Slave
22-09-2007, 16:13
Its Herbrew for destruction. I'd assume the Hebrew came first and the Greeks copied it. :p

Bregalad
22-09-2007, 17:14
Today I found out something interesting.
While the word Imperium in latin literally means empire, it can also mean "to command/control", which I thought was rather apt.

Without trying to be overly padantic... You didn't know that?

sorry, i seem to have confused you all,
the point was the second meaning the "to control/command" not the empire (which is obvious)
hope that clears things up :)

I'm sure anyone that's read Harry Potter will know that Imperium means 'to control' ... ;)

Seems like noone here remembers his Latin lessons if he had any.
"Imperium" really IS a noun meaning empire, while the verb is "imperare", that has the said meanings.
So much for all your proud guesses. ;)

BTW the Fantasy Blood Bowl novels are full of names which just translate the English word. horse=Pferd, teacher=Lehrer, the unsympathetic sport reporter is called "Lästiges Weibchen", meaning "annoying female". A famous Fantasy demon was named something like Tzanarz (spelling?), which sounds exactly like the German word for dentist.

stormblade
22-09-2007, 17:19
Imperium has an -um prefix which indicates that the word is a noun of neutral gender(neutrum) probably second declination.

Edit: I hate J.K. Rowling's naming philosophy, I do not like her book either.


- I did on the first page as a matter a factly:D

lordbeefy
22-09-2007, 18:07
And there I was thinking he was a garden plant. ;)

Nice...I gotit if no-one else did...but then my wife is a gardener, so I have little choice but to learn stuff like that.


Oh, Margaret Thatcher...I actually think it is a great little play on words.

....and Ork-talk is definatley 80's and 90's football hooligans lingo...the fact that hip hop seems to mimic much of it is down to the hip-hoppers, does not remove the origination of the talk!

Widukind
22-09-2007, 19:27
Actually, Imperium in the Roman Republic meant nothing else than military or political power. If a certain person got 'Imperium', it meant he received a mandate to rule, or command of an army.

Just something I remembered from studying history two years.

Vaulkhar
23-09-2007, 00:12
And as for Reuprecht Murdark, proprietor of Wolf Sports....nah, that's got to be a coincidence...

Grimbad
23-09-2007, 07:17
Ghazkull's name may have an actual meaning. Link to a site i found a while ago (first google result for 40k inside jokes)
http://ca.geocities.com/crazy40kguy/namesandhomages/orks.html

Shadowheart
23-09-2007, 10:03
It's quite common for British writers to make references to Thatcher (certainly back then) so I did suspect the similarity in Ghazzie's name was intentional. Inappropriate as it is, concidering he's a Goff warlord.

Mad Donna Ulanti from Necromunda. Kruellagh the Vile of the Dark Eldar. Sucks to be a chick in 40K.

It's worse in Fantasy though, especially with the Lizardmen, whose names I suspect are always jokes, just sometimes I don't get them.

Neknoh
23-09-2007, 10:20
Please don't feed the troll, if you ignore it, it will go away

EDIT: Troll and his posts are gone for now it seems

Arbiter7
23-09-2007, 10:50
it's not a pun but Abaddon is greek for destroyer



Its Herbrew for destruction. I'd assume the Hebrew came first and the Greeks copied it. :p


The word "Abaddon" means nothing in greek and it's not greek.

There may be a couple of greek names involved in 40k like Lysander, Phoenix, Alpha Legion... oh and of course, the Necrons. (Necro= a greek prefix that ascribes a relation to the dead or death to the word it is used in conjunction with - e.g. Necromancy = necro (dead) and manteia (divination) therefore necromancy = the divination, augury with the dead.