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Thanous
20-09-2007, 20:59
We are running a mighty empires game here, and one of the players constantly runs a cav chaos mortals army that consists of Khorne Chaos Knights at minimum unit strength and a couple blocks of dogs for flanking. I'd prefer not to have to gunline him, so I'd like advice on how to beat this Chaos setup.

Thanks

Kamizanate
20-09-2007, 21:30
Outriders work very well

As do steamtanks, and regular empire knights. For every unit of Khorne knights, you can field 2x as many regular knights. Any flanks on Khorne knights will especially kill them, as they probably won't have any standards. Killing one will get you the combat.

Khorghan
20-09-2007, 21:51
a cannon or two can cause alot of havoc in a knight army especially if you set them up in the corners to try and get more than one knight

Thanous
20-09-2007, 22:15
if someone runs all Cav, is it still bad form to run a gunline? Or is it bad mojo vs bad mojo?

Kahadras
20-09-2007, 23:29
IMHO you don't have to go with a gunline just take a healthy amount of shooting. A couple of cannon and a couple of units of handgunners is no where near a gunline but should still provide enough firepower to deal with those chaos knights.

Kahadras

Kraal_Lord_Of_Blood
21-09-2007, 06:39
And stubborn is nice, VERY nice

Thanous
21-09-2007, 15:54
Yeah,

I usually go with a very heavy state troop build and get worked by his cav. They give me nightmares. :eek:

Shank
22-09-2007, 06:41
I love playing my Empire against a Chaos army full of Khorne knights. Really, I do. Take lots of skirmishers (archers) or Detachments of archers (even better) or pistolliers. Force him out of position by making him charge your Skirmishers, then hit him in the flank with you Knights or Tank. Or simply use your huntsman to lure his very expensive knights into a woods.
Don't wait for him to charge across the table to you. Use your Handguns or Crossbows to take out the Chaos Hounds.

bigbear bailey
23-09-2007, 17:32
I play a good chaos army but I have yet to see a DECENT general on the other side of the fight. Every time I heard " Hey you wanna play a game, I have Chaos" I was like Damn this will be boring, an easy win...ha-ha.

I think you can just have some detachments of handgunners and crossbowmen. The range 30 on the crossbowmen make them a hell of a unit to me...

Hell take a hellblaster with a master Eng. they'll love they str 5 armor P shots ha-ha...

warlord hack'a
24-09-2007, 15:59
marchblock, divert, shoot, countercharge. If they charge then you are in for trouble, unless they charge a stubborn or unbreakable unit of yours of course..

Thanous
24-09-2007, 20:02
I'm the first to admit that baiting and screening is not my strength as a player right now. I really like the setup of screening with a detachment in front of the parent unit instead of the standard setup at its flank. It worked well for me this weekend against VC. I may have to try it with archers next.

feintstar
27-09-2007, 13:09
The way I'd play vs Khorne Knights as Empire:

Have a couple of Units of Spears/Halberds/Swordsmen. Make 'em big and tough looking, banner, banner bearer nearby, detatchments of handgunners, and possibly freecompany.

1. Shoot his Warhounds. Really blow the cr@p out of them. Failing this, charge them with cavalry. Ignore/Avoid Knights. Chaos cannot win without supporting units.
2. Bring detachment units (such as free company) into just inside his Knights' charge range.
3. flee (with detachment unit)
4. Send giant infantry unit into Chaos Knight flank. Preferably one on each flank.
5 Win. Static combat res = 6 when on the flank. Providing his supposting units are dead, then so is he. When he flees, he flees sideways (along the battleline) into your 10 man handgunner detatchment, and is wiped out.

Beauty is, there is virtually nothing he can do about this. In fact, I really don't see how Khorne are supposed to win at all, except in battles that are so large, you can't effectively bait them without running into other things.

warlord hack'a
27-09-2007, 14:22
well feinstar, how about his khorne knights moving forward so far that more than just your attachment is in range? you start out 24 inch from each other, a clever khorne player will move his knights the full move forward, then his chargerange comes 4" into your deployment zone. So either you have to deploy 4 inch further back to avoid this or you have to marchblock him from turn 1.

But you're right, without support chaos knights are sitting ducks and should not cause too many problems. However, I think that it will be very difficult to pull off a flank charge with a big unit of yours by using a detachment. Let's do some mathhammer:

- THe detachment should be clear from the 14" charge range of the knights after their flee move, they can not be close to the knights than 14-8=6 inch. Supose the knights fail to reach the detachment then they move forward 7". The parent unit in the beginning of this move is more than 14"away but should be maximum at 15", if they are further away then they will not make it to the knights..

THis is precision work you are describing here..

feintstar
29-09-2007, 06:52
Pardon me, it is precision work, I failed to recognise that ye cumbersome humans are slow and unweildy - I play skaven, High Elves and mounted Chaos, who all have at least 2 inches to spare, even with the ranked infantry units...

That doesn't make it un-doable though.

To start with, you're going to start at the back of your deployment zone, aren't you? Of course you are - you don't deploy a shooting/balanced army close to your enemy's Cavalry horde.

So, he marches 14" from his 12" forward deployment (+/- screening units = +/- 2") putting him, for the sake of arguement, 26 inches onto a table that is 48 wide. Your forces are, say, 6 inches onto the table, putting him... 18 inches away. So your flanker moves forward 3" (plus wheels a little =15 inches from Kinghts) and the bait goes forward 5", and you don't need to be all that precise. Providing he moved as he was expected to, (cos he won't be expecting this, really) its all in the maths. If he moved less than he might have done, then you're not being march-blocked, you've got 3" in the bag with which to set up the same trap, providing you watch how far he moved, exactly, during his turn, and remember it. Plus deploy according to how far back in his deployment he is. That is a toughy I'll grant you.

Admittedly, this depends on your being able to deploy your big units appropriately opposite his. I am assuming, however, that you will outnumber him unit for unit, and will therefore be able to set this up directly opposite. You are Empire, after all. :)

Boneknight
01-10-2007, 00:29
I play Khorne. The Khorne battering ram list uis nasty @ss. Khorne one being chosen, with characters will break infranty on the charge. Quite easily in fact. Since he is cavalry he can focus all his force into one zone so the detatchent may end up hitting into a knight unit and dying. IF he has warhound or furies he can mess up your trap. Monster will shatter because of all the precisiion flanking. With a BsB (or a central unit w/a rage banner) he can hold up quite easily than out flank you with hounds, flesh hounds, or mor Knights. And a lord with a berserker blade, enchanted shield, and gaze of the gods is extremely good against emprire. Sorry on a Juggarnaut.

warlord hack'a
01-10-2007, 11:23
what might make it more feasible for empire is use a small unit of knights for the flank charge, that has a much bigger chance of working than an big infantry block..

And of course cannon are a good investment when facing khorne.

Crazy Harborc
02-10-2007, 01:32
When you are up against a non-shooty army like Chaos warriors, I would use a 5-7 body unit of repeating handgunners. Just give the unit a musician. A unit of 6-7 of pistoliers with a musician works good too.

The repeating handgunners can't move AND shoot, but have a 24" range. The pistoliers can move 16" AND shoot in the same turn. Trouble is to shoot they have to be at charge range of the unit they will shoot at. Don't kill enough and they will likely charge you on their next turn. (THAT is when I ONLY shoot ONE pistol each....Yheres no -1 to hit because of repeat shooting just the -1 for shooting at chargers--hit on 5 AND 6s not just 6s.;)