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View Full Version : Possible to do an Empire Gunline without being the worst person ever?



Ktotwf
21-09-2007, 00:50
Opinion on this forum seems to be that doing a gunline army is the equivalent of being a leering, Nazi child molester, more or less.

But- having just bought the Empire army book, I have fallen in love with the look of the Nuln troops, and truth be told I kind of like a blackpowder army as a counterpoint to my Bretonnian and Vampire Counts armies...

Crazy Harborc
21-09-2007, 02:18
If your regular opponents like to slowly crawl across the field of battle towards you.....They will hate your gunline army.

Having said that...do any of your opponents push magicline armies? 8/10/or more power dice in a 2000 point game. How about an opponent with 3 or more, 30 NGs in each units PLUS some BOs. Then maybe 30 or more of tha boys too??

IMHO, do it......BUT have enough units to field a different selection of types of units.....NOT just one same everytime roster. Remember those handgunners have a save of 0. They don't do well in HtH. The fast cav, the pistoliers/repeater handgunners (I prefer pistoliers) sav on a 5+ before any negative modifiers

forgottenlor
21-09-2007, 04:57
I honestly think it is about how your opponents play. If they play balanced or fluffy armies they will hate you. If they make the most brutal list that they can from their army books, then I don't see why you shouldn't take a gunline.
Also you could simply have a balanced force with lots of guns. Play defensive like dwarves, shooting and then counter attacking enemies who come close to you with knights or infantry. If you have at least half of your non hero points in infantry and calvary then you are not a pure gunline army, and I think both you and your opponents will prefer the tactic of thinning out your enemies and then defeating them in melee to just shooting and hoping that no enemy makes it to your line.

mistformsquirrel
21-09-2007, 05:15
I agree with Forgottenlor - you can take a good chunk of shooting without being a gunline, and thus make for a more fun game whilst retaining the theme you want.

jimbob
21-09-2007, 10:05
depends if you play in the spirit of the army or not really. if you play for competition then you will be hated. on the other hand my mate plays nuln. but instead of a gunline in the classic sense its much more...combat oriented. think of the army as full of sharpe's men. everything moves so as to better catch opponents in crossfires followed by flank charges on hideously weakened troops. no one expects the handgunners to go in, then you here him shout "Fix bayonets!"

mistformsquirrel
21-09-2007, 10:08
That does sound pretty cool jimbob. Especially if he modeled bayonets on them!

*edit* Wth did I get Derby from?!

Frankly
24-09-2007, 12:29
Honestly.

I've been playing a gunline for the last 6 months and most people especially veterans will like the challenges of adapting their tactics to play against it.

As long as you play a gunline instead of a hard boiled shooting freak machine, most players will like the challenge.

warlord hack'a
24-09-2007, 15:55
and also stick to how you should deploy terrain as per the rulebook. This will see your LOS severly hindered by well placed forests and buildings and also NOT having a hill in your deployment zone will hurt you if you have lots of warmachines..

If I were to face a gunline army I would place as many units as possible on the flanks fo the table and then move around terrain peices that always end up there and try to get in your flank. So like Frankly says: veterans will enjoy playing against the gunline as it requires them to use mroe tactics than simply run forward..

W0lf
24-09-2007, 16:47
do what our local gunline armies do.

Play gunline but refuse to have a hill in your deployment zone...

Cant fault the player then as they are playing a list they like but at the same time not trying to be 'cheesey'.

Kahadras
24-09-2007, 21:09
Sure it is. Firstly don't go magic heavy as the combernation of shooting and magic is universaly reviled. Take a couple of deep block infantry regiments to deal with whatever makes it across the table. Take an engineer or two to go with your warmachines and call it a Nuln artillery train.

These are the best ways to avoid cries of cheese IMHO.

Kahadras

Frankly
25-09-2007, 06:19
Firstly don't go magic heavy as the combernation of shooting and magic is universaly reviled. Take a couple of deep block infantry regiments to deal with whatever makes it across the table.

From a purely army list point of view as well, this is good advice.

Going light on magic will give you the points needed to build a strong rank and file back bone for your armylist so it won't play like a glass cannon.

CaptScott
25-09-2007, 06:38
Here's an idea - take an Engineer, that way nobody can accuse you of power gaming!

(for those who don't know Empire, an Engineer is widely regarded as a complete waste of points/character slot)

captaincortez
26-09-2007, 17:46
Agreed! To win a game with an Engineer in your list is a noble feat indeed. FIRE!

Crazy Harborc
27-09-2007, 01:39
IMHO, using exactly the same roster, be it one that wins EVERY time or never, then coming up against a gunline army it's not designed to fight is not exactly a good idea. The same can be said for that gunline list too. Then theres the powered up magic heavy army that is all wizard heros and the lord(s) too. Naw.......10/15 power dice isn't overpowered.:eyebrows:

Any armylist can be the equivalent of a overpowered "gunline list". It's all about why some people play the game....what their motives are.

By the by.....I am NOT addressing this to/at any poster here (or elsewhere). Just had to say it....to get it out of my head.;)

Finnigan2004
01-10-2007, 14:25
I'd say that it is possible, but try proxying the army before you buy it to see if you enjoy it. I've seen a few gunlines, and they always look boring to me. Ironically, I have enough models to set up an empire gunline because I've gotten enough empire handgunners and cannons throughout the years in the old rule box sets, and in a closing out sale at a local store. I bought them with absolutely no idea what I'd do with them (I don't even really like empire), but they were GW stuff and they were cheap-- yes I have a problem.

Anyhow, I'm now going to build them because my father in law and brother in law are really interested in the game (both love to win games as well, so...). My own gunline will probably never leave it's box in my basement for fear of being mocked by friends (especially when added to the fact that my wife actually has Brettonians and what amounts to a dwarf gunline :cheese:-- seriously, they're not mine:rolleyes:. No, really they actually aren't). In fact, there is a good chance that I will never even acknowledge having built it because so many people hate to play them (plus, everyone knows that it's not an army unless you have at least a quarter of your points invested in a monster on a large base-- I'll stick to my elves, chaos, and lizard men).

In summary, yes you can build a gunline without being absolutely the worst person ever. Yes, people will get annoyed with you and refuse to play you, but do it if you like it enough. Some people who like wacky army lists and don't mind losing (like me) will actually enjoy playing against you, even if the majority scorn you-- talk to regular opponents and see what they think. Finally, proxy the list before you buy because you might find the result really boring.

efrahim
01-10-2007, 17:34
Just have "some" combat units to countercharge with, and don't do totally gun AND magic crazy. A well balanced list with the weight on guns is fun to play with and against. Just having massive magic and gunpowder is not so fun to play with...

Crazy Harborc
02-10-2007, 02:07
There has been and still are more than one kind of whatever line armies. The problems only occur when opponents can't manage a draw or win againt them;)

theman__oss
02-10-2007, 03:17
Personally, I love the cross fire move. A couple on each side of the board creates havoc for an opponent to take out both of them without leaving himself vunerable some where.

The lizards can be dangerous though. A unit of 3 all 7 strengths, 9 attacks, hit on the flank of a gun line can over kill and hit two per round and have a good shot at taken them out. All you can do is stand by and watch the point disappear.

THEMAN__OSS

Hvidponi
02-10-2007, 07:35
Many people in my play group whine like hell when a gunline forms up... And then they beat it...
Just be sure not to take every powered choice and no bad choice... Take a engineer for fluff... A stay away from that idiotic tank!

warlord hack'a
02-10-2007, 08:28
I think a pure 100% gunline is easier to beat than a combo force of guns and CC units. Because a HtH army will lose alot before they reach the pure gunline, but once they have reached it the gunline is history. However, it is much more painful to lose part of your force to shooting and then are forced to face fully ranked up enemy HtH units..

Crazy Harborc
03-10-2007, 01:24
If a gunline army is deployed with loads of shooters as the armies main center units.....Send your fast units and a couple of HtH units at his flanks. If possible, deploy little across the field from his gunline units. Most real (S4)gunline units cannot move and shoot....Got any fast cav....flank those gunline units, force them to move or get hit in their flanks.;)

StormCrow
03-10-2007, 09:43
Well one of my friends came up with an ingenious solution to the gunline with his dwarves: he sat back and traded artillery shots with his empire enemy, both out of range with small arms fire and magic attacks (using lore of fire)...IT WAS THE MOST BORING MATCH I'VE EVER SEEN.

Keep in mind that this was a 5000 point game and had taken the better part of 2-3 hours for them to plan for and set up. The empire player even had 4 helstorms and NONE of them had a spectacular misfire. He wouldn't even go into range for his magic missles to assert some magical dominance (could've been the 3 organ guns.)

I have never seen anything like it before or since and i am grateful...

gunlines = the devil

Reticent
03-10-2007, 23:11
A real, true, honest to goodness gunline is pretty monotonous to play against win or lose, but that does not make you Joseph Stalin.

Finnigan2004
03-10-2007, 23:31
A real, true, honest to goodness gunline is pretty monotonous to play against win or lose, but that does not make you Joseph Stalin.

No, but if you throw in two steam tanks, you might as well paint a little hammer and sickle on them. ;)

Kahadras
03-10-2007, 23:39
I agree that 'normal' gunlines are boring to play which is why I always advocate variety. Take a couple of deep block infantry to give you some combat ability. Take at least two units of Pistoliers (or the like) to give you plenty of maneuverability and don't max out on wizards.

An interesting idea might be to go with a more manuverable firepower army. Take Pistoliers/Outriders as special choices and a Steam tank and Bronzio's galloper guns as rare. Something that just breaks up the monotony of rolling dice at an opponant might be a good idea.

Going for the maximum shooting/maximum magic idea is stale, boring and won't win you any friends. Comming up with a new and fresh look for an army will.

Kahadras

blackcherry
04-10-2007, 00:15
Agreed! To win a game with an Engineer in your list is a noble feat indeed. FIRE!

have you ever fought the van horstram spectrum engineer. my mate does and hes clubberd most of the heroes of warhammr to death due to it!

as for a shooty army, you will be hated by anyone who finds their shooty army/foot slogger army getting battered, other than that, it should be fine as there are both god and bad points to a gunline.

MrTrath
10-10-2007, 22:46
In my gunline army, like said before, I at least take a few solid blocks of CC units to keep the enemy tied up. Swordsmen, Greatswords (Though I have none :( ), Knights, and Flagellants work wonders. Swordsmen have an OK armor save in combat, Greatswords have kick--- weapons and also an OK armor save, Knights have a long charge range and an impressive save, and Flagellants, though without a save of any kind, are great for keeping enemies tied up for 4 or more turns of a game. Also, if you want to take out several infantry in one shot, then the Helstorm Rocket Battery or the Mortar is a must. The Steam Tank is a good idea, though as it takes wounds, it loses its ability to function. Mmmm... Steam-powered cannon...