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ShamedOne
21-09-2007, 16:17
Hello,

I recognize that threads on pricing are verboten, but strictly speaking, I'm not complaining about the prices of GW models--I feel they are worth the investment (if I didn't I wouldn't buy them).

However, I think it is shameful that Canadians are getting boned by what is in some cases an almost 50% premium pricing on GW goods.

I checked out the Canadian and US store prices--get this:

Space Marine Company $450 US -- $650 Canadian

Apocalypse Book $50 US -- $75 Canadian

Interestingly the Baneblade is $95 in both countries.

The Canadian dollar hit parity with the US dollar yesterday and is likely to exceed the value of the US dollar in the coming weeks. It's not like this was some sort of surprise... it's a trend that started over 2 years ago. In fact, arguably, the reason GW Canada started its own version of WD was so that we didn't get to see the cheaper US pricing on all the adverts--always a bone of contention.

In any case, the remedy for this is clear: don't buy any merchandise from GW Canada. eBay it or make the trip across the border... it will be well worth it.

At least that's what I'm going to do.

Forewarned is forearmed,
Shamed-1

Adept
21-09-2007, 16:22
This should be in General GW discussion.


In any case, the remedy for this is clear: don't buy any merchandise from GW Canada. eBay it or make the trip across the border... it will be well worth it.

Couldn't you just order from the US website? Or is there some kind of law or tariff that rules that out?

Crube
21-09-2007, 16:28
I have relations in Canada, and they complain of similar things, not just GW.

I actually wrote to complain to GW about the difference in prices from UK to the US ($4 to 4... half price models in the States - and in the quantities I was looking at buying, it would have been cheaper to get someone in the US to order it, pay shipping, then for them to ship it to me...:wtf:

Their answer was - nothing to do with currency values (although they do vary and can have an impact, but that each GW country is a separate country and responsible for their own pricing.


As for ordering form another country's GW - I know when I worked in GW MO in the UK, a customer from any country could order, but they would be charged in their country's currency and prices.

I don't know if that's still the case, or if there's something preventing this happening in the US/Canada situation.

Grazzy
21-09-2007, 16:40
That's ridiculous. They should definitely stop that. I think it is the same with Australia - I'm sure i read someone saying that it was cheaper to buy and ship from the US online store than to buy from Oz GW store.

foehammer888
21-09-2007, 17:28
Ok, I think people need to stop bringing up price comparisons across countries with GW products. Why? Because price comparisons on almost any product don't work across countries. Compare the price of gasoline in the US (northeast currently around $2.60 per gallon), compared to equivilent in other countries. I remember back in 2001, gas prices were the same in the US and the UK. What I mean is they were the same numerical digits. The US was in dollars, the UK in pounds, and the US was in gallons compared to the UK in liters.

Why is this? Simple. Prices are determined by what a given population is willing to pay for something, and what other products they can buy for the same quantity of money, not comparison with the product's price in other countries where it is sold. If in the UK gamers will pay 30 pounds for a land raider, it makes little sense to charge $60 US if the gamers here won't pay it, because it won't sell. Also, which country becomes the standard? Whichever one produces the lowest price at the time? Are GW stores expect to constantly change their prices based upon the exchange rates of every country their product is sold in? The logistics becomes a nightmare.

I can get a value meal at Mcdonalds for 7 bucks, thus the choice is between a landraider ($50) and 7 value meals. In the UK (at least while I was there in 2001) the value meals were 7 quid, and the land raider 30 quid. Thus the choice is between 4 value meals and 1 land raider. From that analysis, the LR is actually a better deal in the UK than in the US, because the value of the products sacrificed is less, regardless of the actual exchange rate.

Foehammer

Sovereign
21-09-2007, 17:35
Of course, if they ship it to you from the US, you will face Canadian Customs and Import Duty...

Craud
21-09-2007, 17:55
That's ridiculous. They should definitely stop that. I think it is the same with Australia - I'm sure i read someone saying that it was cheaper to buy and ship from the US online store than to buy from Oz GW store.

Standard plastic boxed sets are $50 Australian, 18 GBP ($42 Australian) and $35 US ($40 Australian), so we're paying roughly 20% more. I'm not sure how economical importing actually is, because you'd have to pay additional stuff on top of the base price, so it may not be that great a saving unless you're placing a large order.

Marshal Argos
21-09-2007, 17:57
How about prices between Euro Countries and USA?
Space marine company 450 USD
Space marine company 399 Euro

current exchange rate puts 399 Euro at 559 USD that a $100 dollar differance.

But that 399 Euro also includes 19% tax...

Even the $450 should be closer to $475 for most people after tax depending on where you live. If my state in the USA had 19% sales tax i'd be paying $535 for it...

Andyalloverdaplace
21-09-2007, 18:53
When the US dollar rose in 2002 GW was quite quick to raise prices in Canada to reflect the rate of exchange (0.61 US / 1.00 Canada). Since then the prices have changed slightly, but no where near the change that the currency would have.

The Canadian mail order items aren't shipped from Canada though, they are shipped from the main warehouse in the states.

As far as the price of gasoline is concerned, Gasoline is subject to a variety of taxes that go towards paying for roads and such, so it's not such a great comparison.

There is a growing backlash against the 40% "idiot tax" as I call it. Bookstores are especially vulnerable, as the US and Canadian prices are printed on the back of the book, and they are almost as out of whack as GW.

There are online stores which are offering GW product at 30% off to Canadians. I don't know the inner workings of it, but I'd guess that they have worked out the tax and duty angles, and are simply selling stuff bought in the US at retail prices, bringing them across the border, and selling them.

Just wait though. The head of the US Federal Reserve Bank hinted that there might be another cut coming to interest rates. We could see another 10% rise in the loonie before Christmas.

ChaosMaster
21-09-2007, 19:25
Note that when GW moved into their Memphis, TN warehouse a few years ago that became the origin for mail order shipments. For example, if you go to the Maryland Battle Bunker now your "bitz" are no longer instantly available as they were years ago since they are no longer pulled at that facility. Instead, the order goes to Memphis and your bitz are shipped from there. The Maryland facility is still an HQ in some ways, for example, there is a Trade Sales and Customer Service department there as well as employee training and some other administrative functions, but product is no longer molded or shipped from there as all the manufacturing and order fulfillment is now in Memphis.

RexTalon
21-09-2007, 19:37
Price discrimination is entirely legal. It may suck for the consumer, but that doesn't make it illegal.

Suck it up, buy more figs.

Tulun
21-09-2007, 19:38
Yeah, there are tons of things that are discrepant between Canada and the US in general.. it's a real pain, to be honest.

And the fact is, due to online ordering, we can get around some items at least at our 'rip off' prices. So, basically, I'd recommend not buying stuff in Canada; go through online websites that you can get a better deal with (even with tarifs, etc). I'm not certainly wanting to pay this, as a consumer, and I won't :) Especially because I can easily get a better deal!
This should force prices to go down...

miridigi
21-09-2007, 19:58
Unfortunately thoug hit's not the Canadian retailers who are screwing you, it's the US ones who are screwing us Canadian retailers. The Loonie hasn't gained strength but rather the US dollar has started ropping like a stone, therefore it would be up to them to hike their prices to bring them back in line with the rest of the world, if they don't it will start to catch up with them (they still have to import goods and they have far less buying power now) and they will go into a depression.

M1A2 Commander
21-09-2007, 19:59
I was reading yesterday that the U.S. and Canadian $$$ are now of equal value on the international markets. Will this effect the prices between the USA and our Northern cousins?

Andyalloverdaplace
21-09-2007, 20:13
I was reading yesterday that the U.S. and Canadian $$$ are now of equal value on the international markets. Will this effect the prices between the USA and our Northern cousins?

In theory, yes. The price of oil will keep going up for one thing, as will natural gas, as the American dollar is dropping compared to every major currency I can check.

In theory the US should see a large number of price increases on practically anything imported, as the US dollar has dropped nearly 10% in the past few weeks, 3% of that since Tuesday.

It's good for US manufacturing, as they become more competitive, but it is bad for buying anything else in the states. The reverse is true for Canada, as the prices should ease over time, but our exports to the US (i.e. most of our industry), become less competitive. As China has a fixed exchange rate with the US, Chinese goods won't be affected as quickly, but they have to pay to feed their people, and need to buy supplies as well, so they may have to muddle the numbers pretty quick.

Theres a lot that really remains to be seen, things could stabilize at their current values, return back to what it was months ago, or we could see the effect speed up.

grickherder
21-09-2007, 21:05
These threads are going to come up more and more. We should probably make a sticky thread ("GW Prices, Currency Fluctuations and International Orders") about currency fluctuations so people can post solutions.

Here are the solutions for Canadians:

eBay - ask the seller if they can mark the package as a gift with a value of less than $60. Most do this anyway. I have never paid taxes or service charges on anything I've bought from the US via eBay.

thewarstore.com - 20% off, shipping will be over $10 and you will pay the $5 service charge and PST/GST. Another option is to have someone you know in the US reship it. You'll still spend the $5 shipping it to them and paying about the same for shipping charges, but you'll save the GST/PST.

If you are ordering bitz through thewarstore.com's Battlewagon Bits division, keep the purchases under $20. You won't get hit with the $5 charge or PST/GST.

Other US retailers might offer a discount as well and will mark things in a customs friendly manner.

Even if you pay the $5 customs charge, say $10-15 for shipping and PST/GST on anything but a small order will still save you quite a bit over buying Canadian at retail.

There's also gc-minis.com - 30% off Canadian retail prices, $10+ for shipping and they're in BC for figuring out if you pay PST/GST/HST/Whatever.

Andyalloverdaplace
21-09-2007, 21:37
Grick, that's probably a very good idea.

Sovereign
21-09-2007, 22:35
eBay - ask the seller if they can mark the package as a gift with a value of less than $60.
Just be sure to let the seller know that you're asking him to commit Mail Fraud which has substantial penalties, up to and including jail time...

Slaaneshi Slave
21-09-2007, 22:37
Its not that GW is being racist against Canada, its that the US economy is failing, so everything is cheaper to buy from there for foriegners. I can buy a Battle for Maccrage from the UK for 45, or I can buy one from GW US for 20...

Hokiecow
21-09-2007, 23:36
Well the Canadian dollar is doing better then the US dollar!

robertsjf
22-09-2007, 00:25
its that the US economy is failing,


?que? Our GDP has been increasing steadily since our last recession ended in 2003. It's been a bit spotty over the summer but the strength of the dollar has more to do with the lending rate, deficit, things of that nature. It's possible to have a "strong" currency and still have a crappy economy. Besides, a weaker dollar means it's cheaper for the us to export goods to the rest of the world, which will shrink our deficit and consequently strengthen our dollar. More good news is that while our dollar is cheap it makes it more expensive for us firms to outsource.

Anyways, besides a weak dollar, don't you foreign folk have some sort of horribly high rate of theft, I mean tax, that they tack on to retail price automatically? In the US, sales tax isn't figured until the time of purchse, if at all. How much is the Canadian sales tax?

Slaaneshi Slave
22-09-2007, 00:42
Yeah, that high tax rate is terrible. I do wish I was thrown out of hospital if I couldn't afford it. :rolleyes:

Varath- Lord Impaler
22-09-2007, 02:12
Anyways, besides a weak dollar, don't you foreign folk have some sort of horribly high rate of theft, I mean tax, that they tack on to retail price automatically?

Yeah, in Oz we have the GST (Goods and Services Tax). To be honest i never saw much of a difference in prices, all of the taxes are worked out before the purchase so you know how much your going to spend anyway.


Yeah, that high tax rate is terrible. I do wish I was thrown out of hospital if I couldn't afford it.

yep, exactly my thoughts. Sicko was a good movie, wasnt it? :P

My medicare works out to be an extra 1% of my total taxable income:P Not exactly breaking the bank :P

But on topic, the weakening of the US dollar means that it is probably better for Canadians to buy from the US, if the Tariffs dont hurt you that much.

To be honest i buy alot of my GW stuff from Maelstrom in the UK, 10% of GW UK prices, usually there is another 15% off from sales, and free shipping everywhere in the world.

The strengthening Aussie dollar means that its steadily getting cheaper for my to buy my Death Korps, but not by much.

Slaaneshi Slave
22-09-2007, 02:15
Sicko? Never heard of it...

grickherder
22-09-2007, 02:27
?que? Our GDP has been increasing steadily since our last recession ended in 2003.

If you actually look at the math involved in calculating GDP, you'll see that GDP is a bit of an artificial indicator. Here's a good site:

http://www.shadowstats.com


It's been a bit spotty over the summer but the strength of the dollar has more to do with the lending rate, deficit, things of that nature.

Which means there is much, much further to go down for the US dollar. Way down. The money aggregate has growing at roughly 14% over the last year. Today's money creation is tommorow's inflation (which is actually the weakening of the dollar). Expect GW style price increases in everything over the next decade. There are now 114% of the dollars chasing the same amount of goods, services, investments, etc., than there was a year ago. That means prices are going up (though it can take years for this to work through the economy).


Besides, a weaker dollar means it's cheaper for the us to export goods to the rest of the world, which will shrink our deficit and consequently strengthen our dollar.

People are not going to flock to the US as an exporter until it has a wage base similar to China's or India's. Existing exporting might go up, but I wouldn't expect a lot of job creation or real production to increase. More service sector nonsense.


More good news is that while our dollar is cheap it makes it more expensive for us firms to outsource.

You've got to remember though, that it also makes foreign markets more attractive to American corporations, so if they concentrate on sales and production there, jobs aren't created in the US.


How much is the Canadian sales tax?

National 6%, each province varies, but most add another 7%.

Sgt John Keel
22-09-2007, 02:31
Anyways, besides a weak dollar, don't you foreign folk have some sort of horribly high rate of theft, I mean tax, that they tack on to retail price automatically? In the US, sales tax isn't figured until the time of purchse, if at all. How much is the Canadian sales tax?

I have no idea why you try to put a spin on this, but how on Earth does it matter if the tax is included in the sticker price or not? The only implication that I can see is some ignorant people forgetting to take taxes into account when comparing prices between coun... oh. :evilgrin:

/Adrian

GodHead
22-09-2007, 03:07
I've informed the CA webstore that I will no longer be purchasing anything from them until they adjust their prices to reflect the exchange rate. Check Chaplain Grimaldus in the US store compared to the Canadian: $30 in US, $45 in Canada. That's an unjustifiable 50% markup.

I'll buy my Warhammer at the local independent distributor, who gives 25% off during tournaments, or I'll buy from the Warstore. But I won't be buying anything from Direct Sales at a 50% markup just because of where I live.

Get real.

starlight
22-09-2007, 03:42
Just reminding everyone that buying from Canadian independants, including online discounters, makes GW more money than going directly to GW Canada. The only way to avoid this is to avoid *all* purchases of *new* GW products in Canada. Buying from outside Canada or second hand sends the message you want...

Not that I think it will do any good...:(

Tulun
22-09-2007, 03:54
Just reminding everyone that buying from Canadian independants, including online discounters, makes GW more money than going directly to GW Canada. The only way to avoid this is to avoid *all* purchases of *new* GW products in Canada. Buying from outside Canada or second hand sends the message you want...

Not that I think it will do any good...:(

It would on a large enough scale, I reckon.

starlight
22-09-2007, 04:06
The only thing they'll listen to is cashflow. If the profits go down, they'll respond, just like they have in the past.:)

When Battleforces went to $130 the first time, sales plummeted. After a brief time they reverted to $90 for several more years.

Ravenous
22-09-2007, 04:37
Oh just wait,

Its been said the the Canadian dollar will hit $1.30 USD at some point next year.

The only reason to buy models in Canada is to support local shops, thats it.




Couldn't you just order from the US website? Or is there some kind of law or tariff that rules that out?


You can't.

GW kicks your order to whatever country your in, and charge you the difference.

Shopping at the warstore or any other Indy online US retailer on the other hand is a good idea especailly if they give you a discount on the US prices already.

starlight
22-09-2007, 04:47
$1.30??? Not likely. At least not without the US economy going straight in the toilet for a couple of really bad years...

Most *experts*;) are estimating $1.03 - $1.05 over the next year.

Putty
22-09-2007, 05:11
how i wished there is a gw in my country... so i can pay $35 for a box of chaos marauders instead of $60....

its quite crazy that i pay alot less if i order and ship from warstore than buying it locally...

ahh... the wonders of internet shopping...

Ravenous
22-09-2007, 06:10
Ok well the next question is:

How many people in Canada have ordered from the Warstore?

20% off the US price.

But then you add shipping, and customs. Would it end up being cheaper?

starlight
22-09-2007, 07:17
Last time I did the math, it was cheaper to order from the Warstore at 20-25% off and pay taxes at the border than it was to order from GC Minis at 30% off.

bertcom1
22-09-2007, 12:18
As for ordering form another country's GW - I know when I worked in GW MO in the UK, a customer from any country could order, but they would be charged in their country's currency and prices.



GW kicks your order to whatever country your in, and charge you the difference.

What happens if you order something that isn't available in your country?

miridigi
22-09-2007, 12:32
I've informed the CA webstore that I will no longer be purchasing anything from them until they adjust their prices to reflect the exchange rate. Check Chaplain Grimaldus in the US store compared to the Canadian: $30 in US, $45 in Canada. That's an unjustifiable 50% markup.

I'll buy my Warhammer at the local independent distributor, who gives 25% off during tournaments, or I'll buy from the Warstore. But I won't be buying anything from Direct Sales at a 50% markup just because of where I live.

Get real.

I need to keep reminding people that it is NOT the Canadian Dollar becoming stronger but the US Dallar droppong like a stone, therefore it is not up to GW Canada to throw their prices out of whack too, that would mean that every GW would have to drop its pricing (and give every independant reataielr credit for their devalued stock) to come in line with the Americans. The simpler and more sensible solution is to increase the US prices to bring them in line with everyone else.

Just reminding everyone that buying from Canadian independants, including online discounters, makes GW more money than going directly to GW Canada. The only way to avoid this is to avoid *all* purchases of *new* GW products in Canada. Buying from outside Canada or second hand sends the message you want...

Not that I think it will do any good...:(

I'm glad to see that there are people out there who would gladly put hard working Canadians who run Indy stores out of business, because that's exactly what you'll do to us if you take that course of action.

For the longest time I've ehard people complain on various forums that there's no local support for Warhammer in their community. Does anyone know how you get that support? Buy the products from your local guy, get lots of poepl in the store and then we might be a lot more likely to run regular gaming events, have updated tables and terrain that aren't in disrepair, in store armies for newbies to try out (or just poepl who are looking to try a new army), in sotre copies of codicies and army books (you know in case you forget your one day).

Sending all your business to the States is a very short sighted thing to do. It will same you money in the short term but in the long run it will mean you won't have places to game other than in your own basement. There are those of us out there whose passion is Warhammer and we would love to see it thrive, don;t let the follies of the US ruin that for everyone.

Ohman
22-09-2007, 12:41
Look at it the other way around! Look at how much you save by buying your stuff from the US! I have started buying more and more stuff from the US myself. Books, DVDs, games, clothing, everything is cheaper!

Hell, it's almost cheaper to book a flight to New York and go on a weekend shoppping spree than to buy local stuff these days.

miridigi
22-09-2007, 13:05
OK maybe i should spell it out for you guys this way. If you buy from the States and not from Canada (because as I've stated so many times the Americans need to raise their prices not everyone lese drop theirs) eventually you will cause Canadian retaielrs to go bankrupt, and for what? Because the Americans are committing economical suicide and won't be able to keep undercutting us forever. If canadian retailers go out of business then there are fewer jobs to go around (both because those retailers would have to lay off all their staff and then start looking for jobs themselves, big trouble) when there are fewer jobs to go around and we have a surplus of elgible staff the salaries will start to drop, then people will buy even less, and this cycle will continue until we come to what's known as a depression (same place the americans will head if they keep going like this). I just want you al to know that the people who run local gaming shops (or small bookstores, sports stores, etc.) are all hard working Canadians too. We can't controll the fact that the US is charging far too little for their products based on wha ttheir dollar is now worth. We would love to charge you less, but the reality is that we cannot afford to do so. We are real people that are being hurt by your actions, we have families just like you do, we love our country just like you do, we do not want to see our economy crash and burn just like it did not too long ago (and I'm sure you would not want to see it happen either if you could see the big picture). All I'm saying is think twice about purchasing across the border (heck think it over ten times if that's how long it takes to make the realization), put yourselves in our shoes and think how terrible and frightening this current situation is for us. If you knew that at any moment you could be fired would you not be on edge and constantly worried, worried about how you would keep a roff over your head, clothes on your back, and food in the cupboard. That's what a lot of Canadian retaielrs are fealing right now. So as I said before, please reconsider firing us and replacing us with a foreign workforce that does not support our economy.

(as a side note to realy drie the reality of this home. The Canadian logging industry is losing an estimated half billion dollars a day thanks to this current situation [lumber is one of our largest exports BTW] if that doesn't spell disaster I don't know what does)

efarrer
22-09-2007, 13:06
I need to keep reminding people that it is NOT the Canadian Dollar becoming stronger but the US Dallar droppong like a stone, therefore it is not up to GW Canada to throw their prices out of whack too, that would mean that every GW would have to drop its pricing (and give every independant reataielr credit for their devalued stock) to come in line with the Americans. The simpler and more sensible solution is to increase the US prices to bring them in line with everyone else.


I'm glad to see that there are people out there who would gladly put hard working Canadians who run Indy stores out of business, because that's exactly what you'll do to us if you take that course of action.


Sorry, but you as a store owner have to complain and play hardball with the guys at GW if you want to keep customers. Gw gives you a paltry 40-50% off, which is low, and does limit your ability to make profits. Given that by purchasing from the US I can generally get 50% off of Canadian values, you'll have a hell of a time making money off of most of us. And I did see someone with your name on another fourm accuse Canadians who refuse to pay the ridiculus mark up unpatriotic to which i say :wtf: If you as a store owner have a problem with GW's unreal Canadian prices (relative to our neighbours) or that you are losing business blame the people responsible (GW Canada) and complain to them.

You only get run of out of business though if you cannot take the actions to maintain profitability (discounts and diversifaction) :angel:

And to you first point. Well, actually both has happened. As oil prices have risen the value of the Canadian dollar has risen relative to the US. Really our dollar should simply be treading water vs the greenback were it not for the accident of having massive oil deposits. Without those we would be making small gains vs the US dollar. Right now we are gaining vs most people (although our jumps vs the US are larger then most peoples). In the past 5 months though we have gained 5% on the pound sterling and anout the same on the euro.

yabbadabba
22-09-2007, 13:23
Just reminding everyone that buying from Canadian independants, including online discounters, makes GW more money than going directly to GW Canada. The only way to avoid this is to avoid *all* purchases of *new* GW products in Canada. Buying from outside Canada or second hand sends the message you want...

Not that I think it will do any good...:(


The only thing they'll listen to is cashflow. If the profits go down, they'll respond, just like they have in the past.:)

When Battleforces went to $130 the first time, sales plummeted. After a brief time they reverted to $90 for several more years.

This is going to have two effects. First, as already mentioned, you are going to put a lot of Canadian Indys out of business. A few will probably transfer online where they can handle discounts, and close their stores. While that might be good for you, the consumer, it won't be good for you, the social gamer, as places to meet slowly disappear. Unless you want to apporach Starbucks ... ...

The second effect is that Canada will lose it's GW HQ and will be controlled from the States. That's when it will be treated as a sales arm, like a retail chain or sales region, rather than it's own business capable of making decisions for the good of it's own market. No business will keep an country's sales infrastructure in place if it is costing them money to maintain, rather than producing profit. And it will not reduce the prices just because of a lowering of costs.

GW does not change prices locally due to fluctuations in exchange rates. Due to the strength of the Ca Dollar vs US Dollar you are in an awkward position.

miridigi
22-09-2007, 13:37
I first off want to go on record saying that I never accused anyone of being unpatriotic, that was taking far out of context, what I had done was congratulate someone who said that they would never consider going out of country for their Warhammer needs. I called him a loyal and honourable person, never said other people were not patriotic.

gOOmba
22-09-2007, 14:14
Canadians pay taxes in the same way americans do, tax is added after retail price

Taxes differ by provinces, in BC it is 6%PST and 7%GST (or the other way around I dont remember) infact it was 14% for a long time, it is now 13%. Some provinces only have one tax

....none of that has anything to do with the invisible mark up GW puts on canadian goods, and yes it is an invisible markup that has been going on long before the US dollar got soft and the Canadian dollar got stronger

I have not baught anything from GWCanada for years and I never will again. I really dont care if that hurts the indies, or GW Canada or the Canadian economy or someones cat. Stores need customers, its not the other way around. So thanks ebay and the warstore for not treating me like a fool!

Im not familiar with many other model lines but Privateer Press makes the exact conversion rate when crossing the border. There is no invisible 15-30% price hike on thier product. I can buy PP local and not feel like I spent a week in prison

Currently I can go to the US and buy just about anything cheaper, food, games whatever. That is true, last year nothing was cheaper in the United States EXCEPT FOR GAMES WORKSHOP

5 years ago it was still cheaper to buy GW products from the US

Again stop confusing the current economical situation with something GW has been doing for years (ripping off Canadians)

Gazak Blacktoof
22-09-2007, 14:29
Presummably it has more to with the cost of running a retial business in canada, if everything in canada is more expensive that is probably the case.

Privateer Press doesn't have much in the way of bricks and mortar so it doesn't matter to them which country you're in they'll just do the maths and ship you what you asked for.

GW's business model is different and it may be that their current business model is unsuited to the present ecconomic climate in north america.

gOOmba
22-09-2007, 14:32
Privateer Press was just an example, I could use just about any product that comes from across the border

Mad Doc Grotsnik
22-09-2007, 14:35
And that was his point.

Believe it or not, there is no GW Anti-Canada agenda....

gOOmba
22-09-2007, 14:38
huh and what point was that?

Having stores in Canada justifies 15% price hike?

selfconstrukt
22-09-2007, 14:41
OK maybe i should spell it out for you guys this way. ...you will cause Canadian retaielrs to go bankrupt, and for what? Because the Americans are committing economical suicide...then people will buy even less, and this cycle will continue until we come to what's known as a depression (same place the americans will head if they keep going like this). We can't controll the fact that the US is charging far too little for their products based on wha ttheir dollar is now worth....

(as a side note to realy drie the reality of this home. The Canadian logging industry is losing an estimated half billion dollars a day thanks to this current situation [lumber is one of our largest exports BTW] if that doesn't spell disaster I don't know what does)

You are overreacting, Miridigi. America does not charge too little for our products.

The American dollar may not be worth as much on the world market, but it stretches farther and we get more value for it than most other countries do.

Other countries have been saying we're going into another depression since the early 90's. It won't happen, mainly because we import far less than people think we do. America is far more self sufficient than you think we are.

Why should we raise our prices? Maybe you should petition your own Government to act instead of blaming it on the Americans. I understand thats en vogue for other countries to blame us for their problems, but since we are not responsible for setting those prices, GW is and GW headquarters is in ENGLAND you should probably focus your attention there instead of America bashing.

The American dollar is still strong, as it pertains to our economy. Since I don't buy much from other countries, other than the odd model kit or two from China or Japan, so I actually get a better deal and even more for my $.

Slaaneshi Slave
22-09-2007, 14:49
The US is headed towards economic collapse, but thats ok, because you get your toy soldiers cheaper? :rolleyes:

selfconstrukt
22-09-2007, 14:54
The US is headed towards economic collapse, but thats ok, because you get your toy soldiers cheaper? :rolleyes:

Like I said, other countries have been saying that since the early 1990's and would be in a depression by the year 2000.

Hmmmmm. Doesn't look like it has happened yet, and it won't.

Kinda reminds me of all the doomsaying about GW going under. Hasn't happened.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
22-09-2007, 15:00
But with the coming housing market collapse, thanks to the dodgy Mortgages, economic trouble is coming to the US, whether you agree or not!

Slaaneshi Slave
22-09-2007, 15:07
Like I said, other countries have been saying that since the early 1990's and would be in a depression by the year 2000.

Hmmmmm. Doesn't look like it has happened yet, and it won't.

Kinda reminds me of all the doomsaying about GW going under. Hasn't happened.

You are 9 trillion dollars in debt, you are printing money and borrowing more and more money to cover the bills. Sooner or later something has to give. There are examples of the exact same situation in the 20th century.

Ravenous
22-09-2007, 15:13
huh and what point was that?

Having stores in Canada justifies 15% price hike?

15 - 50% in some cases.

Space Marines Battle company - $600 CAN compared to the $400 in the states.

So anyone out there who has ordered one from your local GW I suggest on cancelling it since I highly doubt customs and shipping will equal out to $200.

Heres another funny little side note that Im sure some of you are aware of:

Years ago there were indy distrabutors (like Lion Rampart, Diamond etc) that you could go through instead of dealing with GWs idiotic sales reps ("Buy 10 tanks and $1200 of product and get a free tank!" is a fine example I remember), but then GW back in the early 2000s decided "Thou Shalt Not Sell Our Product!" and made themselves the only ones that could distrabute GW product legally.

Then in 2003 they did the same to internet retailers, all except Ebay and few others.

maskedman504
22-09-2007, 15:36
Well the Canadian dollar is doing better then the US dollar!

It's more like the US Dollar is doing worse than the Canadian Dollar.

efarrer
22-09-2007, 15:39
Presummably it has more to with the cost of running a retial business in canada, if everything in canada is more expensive that is probably the case.

Privateer Press doesn't have much in the way of bricks and mortar so it doesn't matter to them which country you're in they'll just do the maths and ship you what you asked for.

GW's business model is different and it may be that their current business model is unsuited to the present ecconomic climate in north america.

No it isn't.

GW is not adjusting the Canadian prices which means that Canadians (who tend to live within 2 hours drive from the US border go down and pick up things like overpriced toy soldiers when the prices are unreasonable). And GW's price differential is unreasonable. Most things in Canada are bought from US distributers which means there are some distortions (books are probably one of the worst) Canack retailers have tried to take advantage of the rising dollar by doing some profit taking of thier own (not lowering the prices as the supply costs have gone down). This is not a great strategy because it encourages disloyalty to that reatailer. GW Canada is working quite hard at shooting it's own foot off.

The_Patriot
22-09-2007, 15:50
But with the coming housing market collapse, thanks to the dodgy Mortgages, economic trouble is coming to the US, whether you agree or not!

Very true and most of the US manufacturing base is now overseas due to high tariffs and labor costs. Add in that Japan, China, and Germany are the biggest holders of the US debt that when they dumped billions of dollars into the market a month ago sent prices up in the US. I wish US citizens would realize that you cannot have a prosperous economy based entirely upon debt because it eventually comes down.

On a side note, thank you Great Britain for giving us Adam Smith, but you can keep Keynes. ;)

maskedman504
22-09-2007, 15:55
Guys, be realistic, when do retailers lower their prices? Never! It's just not going to happen.

Gazak Blacktoof
22-09-2007, 16:24
GW Canada is working quite hard at shooting it's own foot off.

Sorry to be sarcastic but "yeah that's it!":rolleyes:

I'm sure that GW's Canada division and as I understand it from people that keep blabbing about on this forum, many other Canadian retailers, are just dying to loose profits to companies just over the border.

If GW Canada and Canadian retailers in general could afford to lower prices and remain in business they'd probably do so. Either that or there are enough people that don't cross the border that they don't need to, I have no idea which is correct as I'm not an expert on NA economics.

Either Canadians are screwing each other over or a price drop is inviable.

gOOmba
22-09-2007, 16:34
This is going to have two effects. First, as already mentioned, you are going to put a lot of Canadian Indys out of business. A few will probably transfer online where they can handle discounts, and close their stores. While that might be good for you, the consumer, it won't be good for you, the social gamer, as places to meet slowly disappear. Unless you want to apporach Starbucks ... ...

The second effect is that Canada will lose it's GW HQ and will be controlled from the States. That's when it will be treated as a sales arm, like a retail chain or sales region, rather than it's own business capable of making decisions for the good of it's own market. No business will keep an country's sales infrastructure in place if it is costing them money to maintain, rather than producing profit. And it will not reduce the prices just because of a lowering of costs.

GW does not change prices locally due to fluctuations in exchange rates. Due to the strength of the Ca Dollar vs US Dollar you are in an awkward position.

Canadian indies should do fine as long at they continue to support other product lines

Im not sure where you get the idea that without GW the indies are dead

Many indies around here offer discounts for repeat service and areas to play, all that jazz. People will buy MTG or comics/other model lines/board games from them locally because they are priced fairly, there is no fake BS price hike attached to them.

The only one who should suffer is GWCanada and quite frankly they have it coming.

gOOmba
22-09-2007, 16:50
Either Canadians are screwing each other over or a price drop is inviable.

Both. The prices should not have reached this extortionate level to begin with. And we all know GW will never lower prices

Maybe GW is making enough money in Canada not to care about howmuch people have to pay (with 15-30% markups that is no suprise) If more Canadians wise up hopefully that will change

the question is who is really making the final decision on how things are priced here, does the US or UK influence canadian distributors?

I'd like to place blame on the right people

grickherder
22-09-2007, 17:36
eventually you will cause Canadian retaielrs to go bankrupt

A small group of internet savy buyers ordering from the US is going to have no such effect. And even if they did, it is the Canadian retailer's responsibility to remain competitive in their pricing. I already know a couple that have contacted distributors in the US to start getting more and more of their GW stuff from the US so they can discount more effectively themselves.


and this cycle will continue until we come to what's known as a depression (same place the americans will head if they keep going like this).

A small drop in miniatures sales from people buying from the US is not going to spiral Canada into a depression. That's utterly ridiculous.


We can't controll the fact that the US is charging far too little for their products based on wha ttheir dollar is now worth.

And here we have the real story behind your posts. "We can't control." All this bull about wrecking the Canadian economy is not coming out of patriotism but out of self interest. Puts your posts in a whole new light.


We would love to charge you less, but the reality is that we cannot afford to do so.

Then you are not competitive. Stop saying you can't and start asking how.


We are real people that are being hurt by your actions, we have families just like you do, we love our country just like you do,

And now you're going for a guilt trip? That's pathetic. Stop making up self-interested, manipulative crap.


So as I said before, please reconsider firing us and replacing us with a foreign workforce that does not support our economy.

A drop in the US dollar presents Canadian businesses with an opportunity to source their materials for cheaper and increase their profitability. If you can't see an opportunity in this and only see danger and fear, perhaps you don't deserve to survive as a viable business.

starlight
22-09-2007, 17:42
As repeatedly pointed out:rolleyes:, both GW and retailers in general have a record of lowering prices when sales fall below specific levels.

GWCan charges what they think the local market will bear, no different than any other GW Sales Division. Their job is to maximise profit for the effort and money spent, so they'll continue to charge whatever they think we'll keep paying. When sales levels drop past a certain point, they'll drop prices to stimulate sales in those lines, just like they have in the past...

grickherder: I'll politely suggest that you keep the personal tone out of it. Personal attacks aren't welcome, no matter your feelings on the subject.

grickherder
22-09-2007, 17:50
I thought it was merited given the other posters attempted use of guilt and manipulation (which is also personal).

yabbadabba
22-09-2007, 17:54
I first off want to go on record saying that I never accused anyone of being unpatriotic, that was taking far out of context, what I had done was congratulate someone who said that they would never consider going out of country for their Warhammer needs. I called him a loyal and honourable person, never said other people were not patriotic.

I wasn't accusing anyone of being unpatriotic (if that was directed at me :)) It was just a likely consequence. Part of me supports the local Indy, and part of me supports freedom of market forces to govern prices - if you can get it cheaper, why not? I just wanted to point out that there would be a major knock on effect and I don't know how you Canucks would take to GWUS running the GW Canada business?


huh and what point was that?
Having stores in Canada justifies 15% price hike?

Well yes it might be. What we don't have is Osbad (or others) with his financial quotations letting us know about relative prices, fluctuations in import taxes e.t.c. e.t.c. to explain why it is so relatively expensive to buy GW products in Canada. Lets get some figures to help rationalise this.



Years ago there were indy distrabutors (like Lion Rampart, Diamond etc) that you could go through instead of dealing with GWs idiotic sales reps ("Buy 10 tanks and $1200 of product and get a free tank!" is a fine example I remember), but then GW back in the early 2000s decided "Thou Shalt Not Sell Our Product!" and made themselves the only ones that could distrabute GW product legally.

Can't see what is wrong with cutting out the middleman. And by the way, unless you know the IQ's of all the Sales Reps, I doubt they were idiotic. The offers might have been, but I am sure the reps were just trying to do their job.


Then in 2003 they did the same to internet retailers, all except Ebay and few others.

That hasn't happened over here in the UK where the EU supports online retailers. Hence we get a lot of discounted product. It's a question of ethics. The business ethics in the US and Canada allow GW to block sales to online retailers, thereby cutting down the amount of dicounted product and encouraging GW customers to look further afield or to just visit their local B+M. Isn't this a good thing, to support local Indys this way? While I am unsure about the web business prevention, I am up for as much support for the local indy
No it isn't.
GW Canada is working quite hard at shooting it's own foot off.

Quite possibly. Until we understand more about how much it costs GW to run the Canada business, we can't say whether is is a forced self-inflicted injury ;)


Canadian indies should do fine as long at they continue to support other product lines.


Im not sure where you get the idea that without GW the indies are dead.

Evidence in the UK, Europe and the US is that some retailers will go out of business. I agree with the rest of your statement tho, sensible businessmen will diversify and encourage local loyalties.


Maybe GW is making enough money in Canada not to care about howmuch people have to pay (with 15-30% markups that is no suprise) If more Canadians wise up hopefully that will change

I doubt it, or I am sure it would have been something trumpeted in the end of year report. With the staff cutbacks in Canada and stores closing, I would say they are in as much of the brown stuff as everyone else in GW.


the question is who is really making the final decision on how things are priced here, does the US or UK influence canadian distributors?

I'd like to place blame on the right people

Find the right person to blame, and I shall join you to fling poo!

VetSgtNamaan
22-09-2007, 18:47
I am quite happy to support my local indie store. But It is a business and as a customer I want to get things as cheaply as possible. So while I do spend alot of money at my local store pretty much none of it is spent on GW products. When the price difference gets too huge then I am quite happy to buy GW elsewhere.

starlight
22-09-2007, 18:52
Agreed. I buy my graphic novels, board games, and other stuff locally to support the FLGS, but GW stuff has all been either Warseer Trading Forums or eBay for quite some time.

Frep
22-09-2007, 19:14
It's sad isn't it our strong dollar is ruining the canadian export economy but is allowing us to save a huge amount of money on models bought from the states. Luckily since I buy from Hillcitycomics I don't have the problem of feeling unpatriotic they're a canadian business who sell using the american prices for once its the canadians outsourcing to the the US not the other way around.

Ravenous
22-09-2007, 22:32
the question is who is really making the final decision on how things are priced here, does the US or UK influence canadian distributors?

I'd like to place blame on the right people

Its the US and UK since there is no Canadian distributors.

Everyone in North America gets GW products from the same place, memphis.

GW made it illegal (claiming it violates their IP) for anyone other then them to distribute their product.

selfconstrukt
22-09-2007, 22:45
Its the US and UK since there is no Canadian distributors.

Everyone in North America gets GW products from the same place, memphis.

GW made it illegal (claiming it violates their IP) for anyone other then them to distribute their product.

GW cannot make anything "illegal", what they do with their IP policy is say "We would like..." but you are under no obligation, unless you sign a contract, to follow their IP rules.

Sure they can take you to court if you choose to disregard their policy, but that is no guarantee they will win. Most companies hope the thread of a lawsuit is enough.

C'mon, GW even states you cannot use it's IP for tattoos, or make conversions.

The only real power GW has when it comes to their IP is the threat of legal action, they are not "laws".

Mad Doc Grotsnik
22-09-2007, 23:33
Actually, theres a long winded story about US distribution a former manager told me.

GW do all their own because it's actually cheaper, and you can offer a single rate of exchange, rather than have a third party trying to skim that extra percentage, and favouring the few.

Delicious Soy
23-09-2007, 00:06
This (http://warseer.com/forums/other-gw-discussion/101794-oz-gw-price-rise.html) thread might give an insight into this being a bit more than a canadian problem, they aren't the only Dominion copping the short end of the stick. I don't even bother going to GW anymore and we have no indies where I live, so I feel perfectly fine ordering from Malestrom and getting things roughly 10% cheaper, shipped to my door. Gw Oz, despite having some great staff, are basically boned by their higher ups.