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View Full Version : what caused the primarchs to disapear?



The Guy
21-09-2007, 17:12
If this has been discussed before then my apologies but I searched and couldn't find anything.

ryng_sting
21-09-2007, 17:19
Various.

Roboute Guilliman - fatally wounded by daemon-Fulgrim. Held in stasis cell on Macragge.

Jaghatai Khan - vanished into webway pursuing Dark Eldar. Rumoured to now be a gladiator in Commorragh.

Rogal Dorn - killed during the first Black Crusade, skeletal remains of his hand taken by Imperial Fists.

Sanguinius - strangled by Horus.

Horus - killed by the Emperor.

Night Haunter - assassinated after the heresy.

Alpharius - slain by Roboute Guilliman. Some like to tell themselves he 'faked it' and remains at large.

Mortarion, Angron, Lorgar, Perturabo, Magnus the Red - became daemon princes.

Fulgrim - possessed by Slaaneshi daemon, which stole control of his body.

Ferrus Manus - slain by Fulgrim.

Vulkan, Leman Russ, Corax - went missing after the Horus Heresy.

Lion 'El Jonson - vanished after the heresy, now sleeping in a secret chamber within The Rock.

The Guy
21-09-2007, 17:23
No I mean before the great crusade and when the emperor went out looking for them.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
21-09-2007, 17:27
Well, if you read the third book of the Horus Heresy, it talks about what Horus saw in a vision about what happened, which led him to do what he did. You know, turn on the Emperor. But there is some debate as to whether or not he was being lied to or shown false images to tempt him into going to Chaos.

Personally, I think it was ninjas. Also, I had no idea that Jaghatai Khan was a pit fighter. That would make an awesome novel...Black Library, get on it already!!

leonmallett
21-09-2007, 17:41
If you can get the Index Astartes books (volumes I to IV) they each feature articles discussing first founding chapters and the early history of the Primarchs in each case. I really recommend them.

Sir Daniel of Smeg
21-09-2007, 17:49
i got the impression he was asking what caused them to disappear from Terra when they were infants.

Savant
21-09-2007, 17:51
*spoilers for the third HH book*








As best as I can remember, the Emperor makes a deal with Chaos to create the Primarch's/conquer Earth. Then he decides to break the deal, presumably for a laugh.

Chaos, pissed, sucks up all the Primarch's into the warp while they're being 'grown' in their tubes and dumps them on different worlds (this is prior to the Great Crusade).

The Emperor witnesses this, but rather dubiously decides that 'meh', and doesn't do anything. He then later realises 'oh yeah, I needed those guys to conquer the entire universe! I knew I had them down in the basement for some reason', and then he goes off and spends the next few hundred years hunting them all down.

Sir Daniel of Smeg
21-09-2007, 17:56
iv got the image in my head now of the emperor going 'oh ye' made chuckle.

The Guy
21-09-2007, 19:37
Ok thanks I was wondering about that for ages..seems a bit strange that the emperor would make a deal with chaos though :confused:

Progena
21-09-2007, 20:44
As ever in Warhammer 40.000, nothing is as simple as 'good' versus 'bad'. That goes for the Emperor too. He did a lot of questionable things.

Some say he bargained with the Ruinous Powers for his exceptional psychic gifts. He certainly had unsurpassed knowledge of the powers of the Warp, but neglected to tell his sons, the Primarchs, of this great danger.

The Emperor must've been aware that his Astronomican was threatning to destroy the realm of the Great Gods, and that they would certainly want to eliminate him. Perhaps he deemed it an acceptable risk to run while he was working on his great project on Terra.

Still, had the Primarchs known of the existance of Chaos, then perhaps they could've steeled themselves against its whispers. But then again, the Primarchs lacked the psycho-doctrination all Astartes go through, they were prone to rivalry and infighting even before the Heresy.

The Emperor certainly had no qualms about unleashing the Wolves upon the Red Sorcerer, his own flesh and blood, when Magnus' spell almoast destroyed the Emperor's great work. Yet, he allowed his favourite son Horus to nearly kill him before destroying his soul even though Horus had slain Sanguinius and nearly destroyed everything the Emperor had worked for.

Perhaps the Gods told Horus the truth... perhaps the Emperor's goal was to become a God? Daemons are deceitful, but the most convincing lies are the ones who contain a grain of truth at its core.

Savant
21-09-2007, 21:04
Why would you think for a second that chaos was lying about the Emperor wanting to be a god? Everything he did was to that end.

-Betraying the chaos gods for power;
-Mutilating young children psychologically and physically to create utterly loyal 'angels' (essentially 'playing god' with humans :angel:);
-Massacring entire worlds if they refused to follow him;
-Persecuting those that didn't worship him in the way he told them to (as he did with Lorgar);
-etc, etc.

Sounds like someone with aspirations for godhood to me.

jb85
21-09-2007, 21:07
It just goes to show how devious daemons are, even the good people of warseer are falling for their lies :D

Progena
21-09-2007, 21:39
I was just trying to give the Emperor the benefit of the doubt. Of course he was trying to bring about his own apotheosis. Only thing speaking against it is him allowing Horus to beat him half to death... he doesn't seem to be enjoying his newfound Godhood much from up on the Golden Throne now does he?

And Daemons always lie, that is their nature.

Savant
21-09-2007, 21:54
He didn't 'let' Horus beat him half to death, that's Imperial propaganda. Which sounds better in the history books?

And The Emperor, in his eternal compassion, tried to reason with Horus. But Horus kept attacking, and The Emperor was eventually forced to lash out against him, destroying him instantly. And through his bottomless mercy for Horus he had crippled himself, and ascended to the Golden Throne.

Or;

Horus kicked the living shaz out of The Emperor, who was forced to save his own cowardly skin by using the very same sorcerous powers he had condemned Magnus for using, which he stole from the Chaos Gods he condemned Horus for consorting with, killing Horus who was only attacking him because he was a thoughtless imbecile who treat his own son like a tool to be thrown away.

And Daemons don't always lie, they just omit certain pieces of information.

Progena
21-09-2007, 22:04
I'm sticking with the "Visions" version (you know where the Chaos Gods abandon Horus and he has a moment where he experiences the true 'horror' of his actions, just before the Emperor snuffs out his soul) it's too clichè not to be correct.

And I did mention Deamons telling lies that contain truths. It's the "Is the glass half-empty or half-full" dilemma, I just prefer 'half-empty'. :P

jb85
21-09-2007, 22:16
-Betraying the chaos gods for power;
-Mutilating young children psychologically and physically to create utterly loyal 'angels' (essentially 'playing god' with humans :angel:);
-Massacring entire worlds if they refused to follow him;
-Persecuting those that didn't worship him in the way he told them to (as he did with Lorgar);
-etc, etc.

Sounds like someone with aspirations for godhood to me.

No evidence other than the words of a daemon for the first one. Second, he didn't mutilate the Primarchs, exposure to the warp and growing up on various hell-holes after they were scattered accounted for that. Thirdly he was attempting to unite the galaxy under the banner of humanity and if that means wiping out some resistant worlds so be it. Fourthly Lorgar was never persecuted, he simply received a verbal reprimanded for his actions (as much for slow progress in the Great Crusade as anything else).

Obviously you have been corrupted Savant, may I suggest a visit to the local Ordo Malleus Inquisitor for re-education :D

Savant
21-09-2007, 22:23
Well, just because Horus was too weak to follow through with what had to be done doesn't mean the chaos gods were wrong. Maybe they withdrew their protection from him because he relapsed and decided that what he was doing was wrong, not the other way around?

And that glass of water is quite clearly half-full!

EDIT;


No evidence other than the words of a daemon for the first one.

The words of a Space Marine! And for the record, Erebus never lied.

Or was never caught lying. Same thing.


Second, he didn't mutilate the Primarchs, exposure to the warp and growing up on various hell-holes after they were scattered accounted for that.

I was refering to the Space Marines again. Y'know, the whole 'violently insert gene-altered organs into young kids and brainwash them' thing.


Thirdly he was attempting to unite the galaxy under the banner of humanity and if that means wiping out some resistant worlds so be it.

Pshaw, united humanity is overrated.


Fourthly Lorgar was never persecuted, he simply received a verbal reprimanded for his actions (as much for slow progress in the Great Crusade as anything else).

I should have said many were persecuted, his own son Lorgar among them. He might of gotten off lightly, others didn't.


Obviously you have been corrupted Savant, may I suggest a visit to the local Ordo Malleus Inquisitor for re-education :D

Ha! I'm not falling for that one again. Not after last time, those excruciators smart.

Grimbad
22-09-2007, 05:25
I was refering to the Space Marines again. Y'know, the whole 'violently insert gene-altered organs into young kids and brainwash them' thing.


I think the whole brainwashing and lack of anesthesia and the Pouring of Hot Chocolate Into the Spleen rituals came after the imperium quit being smart.