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View Full Version : Chaos Bikers are they worth it?



kazkal
22-09-2007, 00:21
I wanted to make some Khorne Biker's but before I bought any more,I was just wondering do they earn their points? or they just more for show.

Warpcrafter
22-09-2007, 00:44
They can be held behind other forces then turbo-boost forward and blast the enemy with their twin-linked boltguns, then assault. The mark of Khorne is the best for bikers, as they get back the attack that they lost when the codex was nerfed.

GrandReaper
22-09-2007, 00:47
Well, I haven't used my bikers since the new codex came out, but they have only gotten better. I may be the only person on the planet to do so, but I bring a squad of 8-10 with 2 meltas and power fist champ every game and haven't been dissapointed yet. They are passable assaulters, great anti-infantry gun platforms (which also aids potential assaults) and rediculously survivable with T5 and a 3+ invul on any turn you don't commit them.

With the painful lack of speed in a chaos army I find my bikes indispensible. With the new dex I'll probably give them the mark of Khorne or Tzeentch ( I love baiting Banshees to charge my bikes) and let it ride. I will miss my skilled rider skill tho!

Edit: We don't lose the extra attack. We gained pistol/ccw (makes no sense I agree, but what can you do).

Vaktathi
22-09-2007, 00:49
In the new codex, I'd say probably not. Bikes are 65% more expensive than raptors, and still have to deal with moving through terrain. Can they be effective? maybe, but the Raptors will probably be a better bet.

Honestly, I'd say try proxying them for a couple games first, and see how you like using them before you commit to buying more.

(also, you cannot turbo-boost and then fire, or assault)

Skyth
22-09-2007, 00:56
If you want Bikers in the new codex...Take them because you like them, not because they're effective.

kazkal
22-09-2007, 00:58
In the new codex, I'd say probably not. Bikes are 65% more expensive than raptors, and still have to deal with moving through terrain. Can they be effective? maybe, but the Raptors will probably be a better bet.

Honestly, I'd say try proxying them for a couple games first, and see how you like using them before you commit to buying more.

(also, you cannot turbo-boost and then fire, or assault)



Well I love Raptor's too and Plan on getting quite a few if they ever make plastic ones,otherwise I might just buy some more Marine jump packs and make my own.

Reaver83
22-09-2007, 02:05
i still love my khorne bikers, yes you lost the extra spike attack, but you now have CCW and BP so it even's out!

I've tried a 5 man squad with IOK+fist+Plasma GUn with a lord on bike +bloodfeeder, worked ok, maybe not great.

I think if the reserves roles had been better, then they'd have arrived with support form lesser demons and termis, but then double ones for reserves is always a chance

Gwedd
22-09-2007, 02:12
If you want Bikers in the new codex...Take them because you like them, not because they're effective.

Now there is the first honest and correct response yet. You build the army you want to play with, the one you want to paint and convert and collect, NOT the one that gives you the best chance of winning.

Building an army that gives you the best chance of winning makes you a homer. A world-class cheese eater. Building the army that interests you most means you are in it for the right reasons.

At least, that's my 2-cents on this issue. Other's mileage may, of course, vary, and probably will... :)

Respects,

jhon
22-09-2007, 04:07
biker is 'less user freindlly' than raptor , but once you get hold on the turbo boots and 'combie bolter first then change later' techinne , you will in love with them .

Reaver83
22-09-2007, 04:21
A world-class cheese eater.

Who thinks that was the world eaters original name?

fwacho
22-09-2007, 06:45
As jhon said. Bikes requires a little more finesse than raptors and a little bit of patience (a trait I 'll bet is surprisingly short in many chaos players). Bikes are excellent objective takers and pass out damage effectively if used carefully.

Darkseer
22-09-2007, 07:26
The turbo boost makes them awesome for feints and the like, but they're terribly expensive for what they are.

I run 5 with 2 flamers for killing large mobs of troops.

steesefactor
22-09-2007, 07:38
Icons now work as a teleport homer, bikes are a great way to get those termies or daemons behind enemy lines.

inquisitor solarris
22-09-2007, 08:11
chaos bikes combined with mark of nurgle makes them hard as hell especialy when turbo-boost

kazkal
22-09-2007, 08:21
Sounds good,I just bought 2 of the older battle forces so start out with 6 then trying to get some good deals on more looking to use around 6-10 in 1k battles.

Ronin_eX
22-09-2007, 08:35
I plan on having a squad in my WE to handle infantry and tanks. My Ravenwing can't have all the fun afterall. :D

I just looked over my friends copy of the codex and I think I will finally shift out of being a DA only man after over a decade and start collecting my very own WE force. The new options allow me to make a more balanced Khornate army that can KILL!MAIM!BURN! in more varied and interesting ways (Khorne has to like a little variety in his blood and skulls every so often, chainaxe gets dull after a while ;)).

malisteen
22-09-2007, 09:07
They aren't terrible, but they are overpriced by 5 points a piece or more, and that's just a horrible handicap to overcome in a competitive setting. In a casual setting, the fact that they aren't all that bad once you get them onto the table can make them worth playing.

They aren't half as bad as possessed, and I still field those. If you're paying actual money to enter a tournament, leave your bikes at home. But if you're playing for fun, then take your bikes and make the most of them.

lord_blackfang
22-09-2007, 10:38
Bikes are great as long as you know what you're doing. They're not overpriced at all. A lot of people seem to be disappointed in them because they treat them as assault units when they are in fact Tactical Squads on steroids. Treat them as such and you'll do fine.

Grazzy
22-09-2007, 13:33
I would take raptors instead. Otherwise, take nurgle ones for that awesome survivability or take khorne ones to make them OK at combat. They are great for taking objectives and also tank hunting.

ReclecteR
22-09-2007, 14:35
(Khorne has to like a little variety in his blood and skulls every so often, chainaxe gets dull after a while ;)).

:eek: Heresy! Khorne likes chainaxes! How else can you cut, saw, hack, and make the other guy explode without ever expensive dynomite?

On a more serious note (:angel:), I say go for it. Everyone needs something just for fun ;)

Drong
22-09-2007, 14:44
biker is 'less user freindlly' than raptor

Lies, everybody who has managed to keep a raptor squad standing up on their bases for a whole game deserves a medal ;)

Captain Micha
22-09-2007, 14:53
If you like the look of them take them. Eventually you will learn how to use them.

Certain units require more thought to use than others. Which is something most people seem to fail miserably at grasping. I used to think Vespid were the suck of legends.. Now I actually see their use as meq killers and the delicate role they fill with being able to add fire at one of the last moments. *Still tricky to use though*

Pariah... now that's a unit that in -any- other army would be awesome beyond words, but currently has issues. I'm not sure how to use them efficiently yet other than a squad of 10 and keep them close as a set of 'body guard' counter assault units/ shootists.

That said, I'd proxy them first till you feel you have the hang of using them before buying

malisteen
22-09-2007, 16:32
Um, not to derail the thread, but pariahs are a unit that in tau would be awesome beyond words. Maybe in guard, if you could transport them. Other armies mostly have better and more efficient assault units to choose from.

Units that require more thought to use are generally worse units, because generally applying the same amount of thought to a unit that is 'easy' to use will keep them the same amount better. Not always, but generally.

Bikes relocate extremely quickly and relatively safely thanks to turbo boost. You still need to keep them out of line of sight while doing so. They are excellent icon platforms, delivering daemons and terminators that arrive second turn close to the enemy. Their champion, while expensive, is one of the better greater daemon entry points, especially if it arrives early.

But while their speed is awesome, their offensive (both melee and ranged) and defensive abilities are very limited for their heavy points. Especially now that their special weapons aren't bike mounted, requiring the models to move into assault range of the enemy if they want to shoot them. Once the bikes are done dropping their 'cargo' of second turn daemons & terminators, they want to be back on the move, skirting around about 20" from the enemy and firing bolter pot shots at weakened squads to bring them below scoring or force moral tests. If any small units or lone tanks stray from the enemy force, the bikes can swoop in to bring their special weapons and rapid firing bolters to bare, before assaulting any few who remain.

If you play them conservatively, they should still be scoring at the end of the game, and you can turbo-boost them onto any objective or table quarter that needs contesting.

Ronin_eX
22-09-2007, 17:08
:eek: Heresy! Khorne likes chainaxes! How else can you cut, saw, hack, and make the other guy explode without ever expensive dynomite?

On a more serious note (:angel:), I say go for it. Everyone needs something just for fun ;)

Exactly, this army is mostly for fun and shock value (Havocs with Marks or Khorne? o_O) than anything else. Though it is heavily based around 2nd edition's more honourable, less psychotic Khorne who didn't require that you shuck all pretenses of skill and ability to go chase the nearest object waving around an axe no matter how ineffective it may seem if you sat to ponder it (but you can't because there's that landspeeder again, you'll catch it this time!).

I also wanted to possibly add in a character with a "rending bunny of Khorne" and the new Daemon weapon seems quite good (on a one it decides to not kill for a turn and eat some lovely grass!) for this purpose (and I'd like to see the Holy Hand Grenade take it out this time ;)).

In any case I agree with the assertion that bikes are tac squads on steroids because they are possibly one of the most effective mobile shooty units in the game and are great against almost anything when equipped properly and used well. I use my RW bikes to take out tanks but they'd work equally well as anti-infantry platforms or against most heavy infantry (plasma death!). They aren't meant to be assault squads (otherwise why would we have assault squads?) they are meant to be a more balanced unit that can take on different threats. They fill a completely different niche in an army than jump pack equipped raptors.

Reaver83
22-09-2007, 17:18
Lies, everybody who has managed to keep a raptor squad standing up on their bases for a whole game deserves a medal ;)

amen, they're the most chipped unit in my army

malisteen
22-09-2007, 20:23
they are possibly one of the most effective mobile shooty units in the game.

This I dissagree with strongly, as they are much worse then loyalist bikes in this role (loyalist bikes can take a heavy weapon), and are also outdone in this roll by eldar jetbikes, predators, tau suits, aspects in serpents, and, in fact, many many other units.

While they aren't terrible, and have tremendous mobility, chaos bikes simply lack the firepower necessary to be a frightening shooty unit. IMO, far better to use them as early icon delivery, and then have them gnaw at the enemy's heels from 24" away while trying to stay above scoring for last turn objective grabbing.

IJW
22-09-2007, 21:11
I'm planning to take a of unit of three, with two Melta Guns. Should give me some decent anti-tank/IC assassination, and the change to the weapons being used by the riders has absolutely ZERO impact. Just like Flamers - in fact the only option where it makes a difference is with the Plasmagun.

3 Bikes with 2 Meltaguns costs the same as 5 Raptors with 2 Meltaguns and have an edge in manoeuvrability/speed, and a slight edge in survivability.

ReDavide
22-09-2007, 21:41
So for the the bike-lovers among you: what sort of configuration do you find effective? I like the look of them and may try experimenting, but I'd hate to shoot myself in the foot by configuring them in a way that no amount of finesse could fix.

For instance, can a unit of 3 or 4 be effective, or must I break my bank account and get 10? Is melta or plasma usually the better bet?

trustyfedora
22-09-2007, 22:22
What does the mark of nurgle do for a chaos biker, does it up his Toughness to 4(6)?

I want to assume they do, otherwise the mark doesn't appear to do anything for bikers.

lord_blackfang
22-09-2007, 22:40
So for the the bike-lovers among you: what sort of configuration do you find effective? I like the look of them and may try experimenting, but I'd hate to shoot myself in the foot by configuring them in a way that no amount of finesse could fix.

For instance, can a unit of 3 or 4 be effective, or must I break my bank account and get 10? Is melta or plasma usually the better bet?

I'd go for 5 bikes with no special weapons, maybe a flamer if you have some points free. A power fist or power weapon, and possibly an Icon of Slaanesh, Khorne or Glory.

Supremearchmarshal
23-09-2007, 00:25
So for the the bike-lovers among you: what sort of configuration do you find effective? I like the look of them and may try experimenting, but I'd hate to shoot myself in the foot by configuring them in a way that no amount of finesse could fix.

For instance, can a unit of 3 or 4 be effective, or must I break my bank account and get 10? Is melta or plasma usually the better bet?

Use a five or six-man squad - three die too fast and 10 is just too much points in one unit.

Special weapons - Since they no longer have bike-mounted special weapons I believe the best thing is to ignore the plasma guns. A pair of meltaguns is not bad for tank hunting, but IMO the flamer is much more worth its points since it's very useful against horde armies that like to lurk in cover. If you plan on doing any close combat take a champion with a power weapon or fist, but be aware that they can quickly be overwhelmed by high S troops, especially monstrous creatures and power fists - I usually avoid close combat, except maybe to tie up S3 troops.

Icon? I don't think they're really worth it, except the Glory one, since it's cheap and can help your deep striking troops.

ReclecteR
23-09-2007, 14:05
What does the mark of nurgle do for a chaos biker, does it up his Toughness to 4(6)?

I want to assume they do, otherwise the mark doesn't appear to do anything for bikers.

Yes, their toughness is upped. Kinda strange, I mean, wtf, bikes with the same toughness as a carnifex? :confused: