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Lorquas
24-09-2007, 15:20
Hi

When you cast a ranged spell at what point do you check range? Is it before or after you have rolled the powerdice and dispel dice?

Thanks

Lorquas

Crube
24-09-2007, 15:27
That's the way i've always played it - would seem to make sense (so therefore no guarantee it's right :p)

Atrahasis
24-09-2007, 15:29
Range is not checked until power dice have been rolled and the intent to dispel has been declared (before rolling to dispel though, as you need to check for magic resistance).

T10
24-09-2007, 21:33
A bit bombastic, and certainly not RAW, as when to measure ranges is not mentioned in the procedure for casting spells. :) In fact, there are no provisions what-so-ever for dealing with spells that are our-of-range.

As far as I can tell, the casting player is well within his rights to measure ranges as part of the target selection step in the spellcasting process.

Edit: The current High Elf magic item Amulet of the Purifying Flame reduces the casting roll of spells cast against the unit by -3. This certainly suggests measuring the distance before declaring intent to dispel, since the item may in fact cause the casting roll to fail, thus making the decision to dispel moot.

That being said, we apply the "guessing-game" principle around here as well, and will likely keep doing so. :)

-T10

theunwantedbeing
24-09-2007, 22:05
You dont get to measure the range before declaring a charge.
You dont get to measure the range before declaring a target your going to shoot at.
You dont get to measure the range before you've successfully cast the spell.

Seems to follow quite nicely with that line of reasoning.

As for the amulet of purifying flame.
I think your confusing it with the blessed tomes effects(they are stacked one on top of the other in the book).

If your not well....its a pretty rubbish argument. As being the target of a spell is not the sme as being in range of a spell.

warlord hack'a
24-09-2007, 22:52
it's actually in the BRB: page 108, under dispelling: " if the dispel result is lower.. then spell cast sucessfully. Measure range to target and resolve the effect of the spell if in range.

SO: cast first, then dispel, if dispel fails, only then measure range..

T10
24-09-2007, 23:29
I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing that out, hack'a!

Of course, there are numerous complications regarding when taking into account magical defenses and stuff, but at least it appears to support the "guessing game" principle. :)

One complication would be a spell that affects all enemies within a certain range. If the range is 12" and that unit of Magic Resistance 2 Stone Trolls are something like 11-13" away, you may need to establish range before rolling the dispel dice...

-T10

theunwantedbeing
24-09-2007, 23:34
Still doesnt stop you successfully rolling to cast the spell before checking to see if you get the extra dispel dice against the spell.

As the dice have been rolled to cast you cant change your mind or gain any noticable advantage from it.

T10
24-09-2007, 23:54
Still doesnt stop you successfully rolling to cast the spell before checking to see if you get the extra dispel dice against the spell.

As the dice have been rolled to cast you cant change your mind or gain any noticable advantage from it.

Don't be silly.

If you may or may not be entitled to extra dispel dice, free I might add, why on earth should you commit yourself to spending dice from your limited pool of dispel dice first?

Also, rolling dispel dice in two batches can greatly affect the chance of rolling double 1's or double 6's.

-T10

Ganymede
25-09-2007, 03:31
Page 108 "If the dispel result is lower than the caster's casting result, the spell is said to have been cast sucessfully. measure the range to the target and resolve the effects of the spell if in range"

Edit: Oops, Good eye Warlord hack'a.

warlord hack'a
25-09-2007, 08:55
what theunwantedbeing is pointing out is that for the caster this does not matter, he/she rolls first to see if the spell is succesfully cast. Then indeed you might have a problem when you target a unit with magic resistance. What I suggest you do in that case is this: the defender declares if he wants to dispel the spell and with how many dice (in total). Then you measure for range, and if any MR units are in range substitute an equal number of MR dice from the poll of dispel dice waiting to be cast. Then see if you dispel.

so: a caster 'succesfully' casts an area effect spell on my svg orcs and my stone trolls (MR2), I declare that I want to dispel using 3 dice. Then we measure if the trolls are within the are of effect, if they are then subsitute 2 normal dispel dice for the 2 MR dice.
This will keep everything honest as both the caster and defender, in a normal situation, have to guess if a spell is in range and commit their dice before they measure..

Now what if the MR unit is the only target of the spell, in that case my suggestion does not work as IF the trolls are out of range their MR also does not work so it would cost me 2 normal dispel dice.. But if they are within range then their MR works so I have a free dispel chance..

xAlpha
26-09-2007, 09:06
I usually measure before the roll, but if I can't reach the unit, I accept the fate. I suppose I shouldn't do it that way, because even if I'm not in range, I could waste my opponents dispell dice.

Gorbad Ironclaw
26-09-2007, 12:31
As Warlord Hack'a says, I really fail to see the problem with MR.

It just means that the defender have to take a guess and see if they think the MR unit is in range or not. And then declare how many dispel dice they want to use, check range to see if MR is added and roll the combined total of dice.

Avian
26-09-2007, 13:43
Or say: "If my unit is within range, I'll use X dice, if not I'll use Y dice."

Atrahasis
26-09-2007, 13:55
Provided X-Y is equal to the available magic resistance dice, sure.

warlord hack'a
26-09-2007, 19:19
sounds good to me!