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Giladis
01-09-2005, 12:41
How many FW can be transported on a:
Gal'Leath -
Il'Fannor -
Lar'Shi -
Kir'Qath -
Kass'L -

malika
01-09-2005, 12:45
What are these things?

FRS
01-09-2005, 12:49
Tau space ship IRC.

Terminatorphoenix
01-09-2005, 14:16
alot of fire warriors if fire warrior is any indication

Brusilov
01-09-2005, 14:22
An interesting question indeed. Would the Tau transport their troops on board the combat ships or would they have a dedicated class of vessels to do so?
On top of my head, considering the Tau are not the IG, I'd argue dedicated transports might not be necessary. And this would not sit weel with the idea of the Fire and Air castes cooperating closely in combat situations (contrary to the Navy and IG).

However as we don't know what is the exact size of these vessels, nor the number of their crew, we can only pick a guess at the estimates you're asking. And I'm not knowledgeable enough to say.

Wiseman
01-09-2005, 23:54
what brusi you dont know? your kidding right, this has to be one of the signs of the Apocalypse!

Captain Stuart
02-09-2005, 00:11
Tau make heavy use of transports (see IA3 p.215), but whether this is merely goods or used for trooops as well isn't mentioned. I'd say they are used for troops as well. We don't use C-130s merely for equipment for example.

as for the other ships, I suggest there carrying capacity is analogous to the Imperial vehicles they are compared to. For example, Kir'shasvre is "directly comparable to the Imperial fleet's Sword and Firestorm frigates." If there aren't explicit numbers I'd wager they are roughly equivalent to their Imperial counterparts for things such as troop transports.

Inquisitor Engel
02-09-2005, 00:22
However as we don't know what is the exact size of these vessels, nor the number of their crew, we can only pick a guess at the estimates you're asking. And I'm not knowledgeable enough to say.

Do any of them either dock or carry Mantas? That would help.

IF none of them do, it's safe to say that other than a minor teams to repel boarding actions (as well as aerospace battlesuits, if such a thing exists) that their crew is all Air Caste, with a few Earth Caste Engineers.

The Fire Warriors probably stick to the Mantas, and the orbital docks when they're not on the way to battle.

Sephiroth
02-09-2005, 00:35
Do any of them either dock or carry Mantas? That would help.

Gal'Leath - Depending upon the type, it can launch 4 - 8 Mantas a turn.

Lar'Shi - 2 Mantas a turn.

Kir'Qath & Kass'L & Il'Fannor - No mantas.

Shinzui
02-09-2005, 01:07
Though just becaues they don't launch mantas doesn't mean they don't have any. It's of course possible that both the mantas on the ll'fannor and such are so few in number that they are held purely for landing what few troops are present on the ground.

From memory

about 10-20'000 crew for a cruiser

a couple tousand for an escort.

But these were for Imperial ships so depending on how much of the crews man power the Tau can replace by automation is unknown.

Inquisitor Engel
02-09-2005, 02:00
But these were for Imperial ships so depending on how much of the crews man power the Tau can replace by automation is unknown.

I imagine it's quite a lot, an Imperial Cruiser needs literally hundreds of people to reload giant shells into gun batteries, the Tau Railguns are probably controlled by a longer range and more sophisticated AI than Gun Drones, probably in concert with highly advanced video and radar recognition systems.

Though the possibility for a couple of gunners for closer range weapons is possible, but I imagine the weapons officers are still Air Caste.

I believe the Tau have eliminated most of the redundancy in ships. ;)

That said, I imagine anything that launches a Manta has living quarters for the Fire Warriors that go in said Mantas, but does not require them to operate.

FutureEmperor
02-09-2005, 07:04
Anyways doesnt the explorer and the other one (not the hero... it isnt merchant is it?) arn't they both mostly transports anyways... so in acctual fact probably alot of tau can fit on both of these ships... imho

Giladis
02-09-2005, 07:08
Actualy the crew is counted like this for Imperial/Chaos/SM ships hit points x 1500. Eldar and Tau have smaller crews due to automatisation while Ork crews are larger. Necron and Tyranid crew numbers are unknown.

I asked this question because if Tau warships carry their ground troops, preventing a world from falling into Tau hands might be easier than is commonly thought. If this would be the case a naval engagement and destruction of a Tau warship will not only weaken their navy presence but also their ground forces.

And another question what is the full name of CPF tau ship and where can I find rules for him because there are not in Armada.

Sorry Cap. Stuard I don't have IA3(or anyother on that matter you can't buy them where I live). Concerning IA3 when did Taros campaign occure.

Brusilov
02-09-2005, 16:11
I recognise my ignorance on such matter, especially when there is only limited data to work. My gues is that Tau probably transport their troops on their warships, possibly only the largest and best protected ones.
After all, carrying troops on a warship is a liability only if said vessel is fragile. In Star Wars the Empire carries its troops on board its warships, but the might of a star destroyer is such that not many vessels in the galaxy can stand up to it and thus the liability becomes a strength because you have an all-in-one kit with your warship and its escorts.

IIRC, don't the rules for the Manta mention that each squadron is in fact a single Manta? IIRC if a Manta has a firepower equivalent to a Warlord Titan, a single one could do the job of a whole squadron of bombers.
Incidently, the Manta used in space could be a different variant of the one we know, without troop transport capability with with a large payload of weapons.

As such the vessels mentioned above would carry this variant of Manta while all would carry the transport variant to land their troops.

Inquisitor Engel
02-09-2005, 19:47
As such the vessels mentioned above would carry this variant of Manta while all would carry the transport variant to land their troops.

The railgun mounted version would be a distinct possibility.

I don't have the Armada book, are Manta's warp "skip" capable?

Khaine's Messenger
02-09-2005, 20:40
I don't have the Armada book, are Manta's warp "skip" capable?

In the Tau codex Mantas are noted to be marginally warp-capable (in a Tau way), but iirc the Armada fleet list notes that the smallest "self-sufficient" Tau vessel is of the Messenger (http://store.us.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.us?do=List_Models&code=302349&orignav=300812&ParentID=253053&GameNav=300808) class, which is noted to be basically a gravitic drive with a cargo hold, used as an Escort (and therefore presumably much larger than Mantas!). Mind you, this doesn't per se mean that Mantas couldn't have gravitic drives...probably just that they wouldn't be "self-sufficient" in the way that Messengers are.

And yes, each "marker" in BFG terms is one manta (As stated in the Tau Ordnance rules in their fleetlist (http://www.specialist-games.com/battlefleetgothic/assets/lrb/E_BFGTau.pdf)).

Inquisitor Engel
03-09-2005, 05:48
In the Tau codex Mantas are noted to be marginally warp-capable (in a Tau way), but iirc the Armada fleet list notes that the smallest "self-sufficient" Tau vessel is of the Messenger (http://store.us.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.us?do=List_Models&code=302349&orignav=300812&ParentID=253053&GameNav=300808) class.

I wouldn't say that a Manta NEEDS to be self sufficient in anyway. The Fire Warriors train and live on the surface of the planet and plop into Mantas and fly to their designated target. (Obviously within Manta jump distance)

That said, it might be more prudent to load the Mantas on orbital cities after having the Fire Caste Warriors shipped up through some cheaper means than lifting an entire Manta from the gravity of a planet...

Shinzui
03-09-2005, 12:29
IIRC, don't the rules for the Manta mention that each squadron is in fact a single Manta? IIRC if a Manta has a firepower equivalent to a Warlord Titan, a single one could do the job of a whole squadron of bombers.

Yeah one manta per bomber squadron, in addition it so tough it gets a special 4+ save from being removed when engeged by fighter squadrons.


Incidently, the Manta used in space could be a different variant of the one we know, without troop transport capability with with a large payload of weapons.

Not according to the mention of it in the BFG armada fluff. It mentions that it's "A machine capable of fighting in space as a very heavy bomber and within an atmosphere as a drop ship and heavy fire support".

Outlaw289
05-09-2005, 06:43
I'd imagine they would carry less than their Imperial contemporaries. Maybe like 2/3s as much as equitable Imperial ships

Dvalin
05-09-2005, 08:08
It's worth noting that in the experimental BFG rules done by Forgeworld, the Tau ships have their boarding penalty removed. Previously, the ships counted as half-size for crew compliment for boarding actions to represent Tau ineffectiveness in close combat. With the experimental rules, this was eliminated because of the addition of Shas contingents trained for ship-board fighting. The implication, then, is that the Kor'vattra didn't carry a significant fire warrior contingent on-board 'til very recently. Of course, this says nothing at all about the carrying capacity of Tau ships.

Also noteworthy; from Armada p.105, "Whilst Mantas can carry large numbers of troops, they are not used to board enemy vessels as boarding is totally contrary to the Tau's approach to space warfare." The implication, then, is that the Mantas launched in BFG are the same as those used for ground landings in 40K and Epic, at least so far as transport capacity is concerned.

Ubik_Lives
05-09-2005, 10:33
I imagine the Tau ships would be able to hold as many Fire Warriors and Imperial ships could carry Guardsmen, if not more.

Imperial ships are more likely to be designed with mass troop carrying capacity in mind. The Imperial Guard works on massed numbers, and combined with the massive numbers the Imperial ships need to keep running, I imagine there would be troop quaters tacked on all over the ship.

Tau ships would probably have more in the way of cargo holds, but I think they'd have a lot more free room due to their use of automation. The messenger is the greatest example of this. While Imperial escorts have crews of around a thousand, the Messenger has a single crewman. This is clearly an extreme due to the nature of the Messenger being a non-combat vessel, but the point is still valid. The pilot and however many drones or automated systems are able to fly the ship, fire the guns, use the turrets, and whatever else is needed in the day to day actions of the Messenger.

Now the Tau decided to stick massive data banks in the spare space, but the warships, and I'm thinking of the Hero here, should be able to carry a large number of troops in itself. So I don't know just how many troops could get into those ships, but I imagine its more than the Tau are willing to have inside a single ship.