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Chaos and Evil
27-09-2007, 11:25
I've spotted an obvious recaster on Ebay with 4000+ transactions, so...

Darkseer
27-09-2007, 11:28
I知 part of GW legal. Please link me to the offenders ebay page.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
27-09-2007, 11:29
Ummm...hold on.

http://uk.games-workshop.com/legal/ip/

contact details further down the page. Shows the Ebay linkage!

Jan Skarthen
27-09-2007, 11:35
I've spotted an obvious recaster on Ebay with 4000+ transactions, so...

Here is a link

http://uk.games-workshop.com/legal/counterfeiters/1/

I have a mate who had an issue with some minis he bought of ebay and they weren't too interested, so good luck maybe you can put some details? The person who he bought them off has a huge ammount of sales/feedback and always seems to have brand new ltd edition models and oop minis for sale every week.....

Just be careful as I know at least one guy who buys and sells loads of GW stuff at auctions (not online) and from stores closing and then sells it on ebay, I think he had bought and sold something like 6 of one bloodbowl team and got accused of being a caster....however having seen this guys paint jobs I would doubt he would even know where to start doing something as diificult as casting figures the poor fella can't even pin a large model either.

Chaos and Evil
27-09-2007, 11:53
I知 part of GW legal. Please link me to the offenders ebay page.

PM'd you with three recasters.

McMullet
27-09-2007, 11:54
"...If the products are indeed counterfeit, we will reimburse you for any postage costs and will try to replace any counterfeit with the genuine article (please be aware that this may not always be possible)..."

Nice! So they want you to do the detective work for them, and if you're lucky you might not end up out of pocket! Thank you, oh generous GW...

This doesn't exactly guarantee that people will help them out, does it?

Chaos and Evil
27-09-2007, 11:56
Woah, I should have bought a crapload of models from these guys first. :D


please be aware that this may not always be possible
In the case of long-OOP models that's not surprising...

Going to give me some official Citadel Squats are they? :D

Mad Doc Grotsnik
27-09-2007, 11:58
Is better than making them aware of someone ripping off their stuff and getting a meagre 'mmm...ta for that'

And I guess they will replace whatever is still in production. No Squat moulds mean they can't replace phoney Squat models after all.

Dude! Show us these re-casters as well....NAme and Shame! Name and Shame!

Jan Skarthen
27-09-2007, 12:11
Dude! Show us these re-casters as well....NAme and Shame! Name and Shame!

Agreed with MDG expose these charlatans if warseer users knew who they were and boycotted them they would soon have a business impact and possibly go away. I would imagine GW is interested in those commercially producing minis on a large scale due to the legal costs and test purchase operations etc to gather evidence.

I think the only one I have heard of was that guy in USA who got done asides from that nowt in UK. GW should publish their successes to warn others.

IJW
27-09-2007, 12:20
Option Three.
Use the contact details already provided. ;)

Orlanth
27-09-2007, 12:34
Seriously now. How do we know its a recaster?

Quality is a giveaway, but quantity is not, even for old stock. Though if the same lines appear over and over recasting is likely. Honest reasons for massed transactions from an individual:

1. Ex staff resale. While GW doesn't like this it is not illegal. Many staff members sell off the miniatures they have collected on staff discount. Yes automatically disciplinable offense while a staff member, but fully legal for former staff, they dont even have to conceal the sales, the staff purchasing conditions no longer legally apply.
Some straff purchase items and deliberately store them for sale after they leave, which is more questionable but also legal. I know of one such case.
As a large number of middle and senior managers have been let go by GW recently, I can see and even endorse them selling their miniatures. Some leave with such a bad taste that they will sell everything from GW they had, I know of two such cases. After being in the company a while this could easily lead to 4k plus eBay sales.

2. Garage stock. From a failed B&M store. There aren't many around, but I know a guy who still has old Epic stuff in his garage en years after he owned a shop. At the time he couldnt return unsold stock. Rules may be different now but some people were stuck with garage stock. Most of this cleared out in the first few years of internet auctions though.

Chaos and Evil
27-09-2007, 13:08
Seriously now. How do we know its a recaster?
Oh because he sells the same 'super-rares' multiple times per month, always with the same picture, never in the blister.

The main guy I'm looking at has sold literally hundreds of 3rd edition (OOP) Epic Thunderhawk Gunships. He sells several Epic Ordinatus models per month (These things are so rare they're worth 」50+ each, for a model that originally retailed at 」10). He sells the same 40k Squat figures again, and again, and again...


The other main chap I'm looking at pops up with 1-day, private auctions, and sells 30 Epic Leman Russ in each lot. You can't see his feedback because it's private, but he probably sells more Epic leman russ models than Specialist Games itself!

Chaos and Evil
27-09-2007, 13:13
Agreed with MDG expose these charlatans if warseer users knew who they were and boycotted them they would soon have a business impact and possibly go away.

Since the guys I've spotted trade mostly in Specialist Games models, and most Warseer members collect 40k, I don't think a Warseer boycott would have one whitt of influence.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
27-09-2007, 13:26
But it's nice to know who the sod is!

McMullet
27-09-2007, 13:28
In the case of long-OOP models that's not surprising...

Going to give me some official Citadel Squats are they? :D

Of course, if they don't have the models then they can't give you a replacement; but you'd have thought they'd offer to to refund what you paid for it, or to give you an alternative model as a replacement. Just something other than, effectively, asking you to do their work for them and possibly paying for the privilege...

As for boycotting, even if you told the whole of Warseer, it's not as if members of this site make up the majority of gamers who buy from eBay. The best thing is just to tell GW legal, and hope they don't insist you hand over your wallet in return. :p

IJW
27-09-2007, 13:32
The other main chap I'm looking at pops up with 1-day, private auctions, and sells 30 Epic Leman Russ in each lot. You can't see his feedback because it's private, but he probably sells more Epic leman russ models than Specialist Games itself!
Looks like this guy (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Epic-40k-Leman-Russ-Tank-Regiment_W0QQitemZ220150286290QQihZ012QQcategoryZ5 6364QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem). There's a LOT of neutral feedback on him, and a fair few negatives as well.
Private bidding always makes me suspicious, on something like GW stuff I just can't see a legitimate reason for it. :eyebrows:

Chaos and Evil
27-09-2007, 13:42
Yep, Yorkie is one of the sellers I have my eye on.

The truly large-scale seller though is this guy:
http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/glory4figures

Have a trawl through his list of previous sales... it repeats every three pages or so. :D

lomo
27-09-2007, 13:45
If he is counterfeiting models he must be doing a fairly decent job of it, since you don't see anyone complaing about the quality of them in his feedback.

Chaos and Evil
27-09-2007, 13:46
Oh yeah, he's obviously good.

But that doesn't make it legal.

lomo
27-09-2007, 13:49
Oh yeah, he's obviously good.

But that doesn't make it legal.

Funny though.

Brandir
27-09-2007, 13:49
I知 part of GW legal. Please link me to the offenders ebay page.

Really?


PM'd you with three recasters.

Do you believe everything that Warseer members say?

Just a quick tip - don't PM Warseer members links to recasters even if they say they are from GW Legal. I doubt that that GW Legal would ask for details via a PM on Warseer. Send the links direct to the email address provided. I have in the past and GW are good on their word in reimbursing you for costs incured both monetary and time.

Chaos and Evil
27-09-2007, 13:51
I've met Darkseer in real life...

blongbling
27-09-2007, 13:57
the GW legal team is very small and they are all based at HO.....

Jan Skarthen
27-09-2007, 14:01
Oh yeah, he's obviously good.

But that doesn't make it legal.


We've got 2 of the 3 so who is the 3rd? I think ebay have made it very easy to sell counterfeit stuff by allowing this make auctions private setting.

Means you have to see the stuff on auction a number of times whereas with some sellers you can look at their recent back catalogue and see how many times they have sold a certain mini or squad/unit/team etc.

IJW
27-09-2007, 14:07
I was wondering if glory4figures was the other. I bought a 'Forces of the Imperium' Assassin off them not long ago, and it had no sign of being a recast - but it's not one of their 'recurring' auctions.

EDIT - Squat Adeptus Mechanicus, two auctions in the near past, identical photo for both:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/warhammer-squat-adeptus-mechanicus_W0QQitemZ140156156856QQihZ004QQcategory Z123867QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/warhammer-squat-adeptus-mechanicus_W0QQitemZ140159944594QQihZ004QQcategory Z123867QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Five identical Chaos Exo Armour Squats:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/warhammer-chaos-squats-in-exo-armour-x-5_W0QQitemZ140156316813QQihZ004QQcategoryZ123867QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

On the other hand they sell a lot of stuff that can't easily be recasts, such as old plastics.

Chaos and Evil
27-09-2007, 14:07
I'm not going to reveal the third, that way someone may uncover a fourth whilst trying to guess. :D

Chaos and Evil
27-09-2007, 14:08
Yeah Glory4 mixes normal lots in with his reoccuring lots in order to maintain a pretence of legitimacy.

yabbadabba
27-09-2007, 14:17
"...If the products are indeed counterfeit, we will reimburse you for any postage costs and will try to replace any counterfeit with the genuine article (please be aware that this may not always be possible)..."
Nice! So they want you to do the detective work for them, and if you're lucky you might not end up out of pocket! Thank you, oh generous GW...
This doesn't exactly guarantee that people will help them out, does it?

Of course, if they don't have the models then they can't give you a replacement; but you'd have thought they'd offer to to refund what you paid for it, or to give you an alternative model as a replacement. Just something other than, effectively, asking you to do their work for them and possibly paying for the privilege...
As for boycotting, even if you told the whole of Warseer, it's not as if members of this site make up the majority of gamers who buy from eBay. The best thing is just to tell GW legal, and hope they don't insist you hand over your wallet in return. :p

I don't get what's with all the sour grapes? At least GW are offering to get involved with what is technically a legal issue. as MDG said I am sure that the whole "replacement" issue is because of some miniatures being out of production. On the other hand you could keep the stuff, keep quiet, and save your embarrassment at being conned.

As for Ordinatus stuff being 」50 - I have a handful of those! Ebay, here I come ... ... :D

If anyone has any doubts, they should call them into Ebay or GW straight away.

scarletsquig
27-09-2007, 14:23
Bah, why are you doing this?

GW has destroyed many of the moulds for OOP miniatures (some of which are essential for stuff like epic etc.), or they're otherwise unavailable and becoming increasingly rarer as GW constantly reduces the online range.

GW has shot itself in the foot by discontinuing large amounts of product line, depsite the fact that demand from their customers remains. They only have themselves to blame.

And as for the "moral argument"... how on earth does someone making casts of squats or epic tyranids take money away from GW/ fund drug cartels/ support terrorism (or any of the other crap they'd like you to believe ;) ), when GW doesn't even sell the things anymore?

I'm not endorsing it, just wondering why you specifically feel the need to hunt them down and destroy their livelihood. Surely as an epic player, you must realise the huge demand for OOP epic models that GW is refusing to sell?

Chaos and Evil
27-09-2007, 14:35
I'm not endorsing it, just wondering why you specifically feel the need to hunt them down and destroy their livelihood. Surely as an epic player, you must realise the huge demand for OOP epic models that GW is refusing to sell?

Collectively, these guys appear to outsell Specialist Games, with certain model types (Leman Russ & Baneblade tanks at the least, probably others too). These are not OOP models, they're from the current range.

This week, we were told that Specialist Games can't afford to release any new models for the forseeable future.

I believe that these two facts are connected, and I'm trying to do something about it.

dancingmonkey
27-09-2007, 14:38
this is gonna sound a bit weird, but as a back up of his re casting, (which certainly seems a strong possibliity as there is no real evidence of oxidisation on his models which would be lead not white meatl- check your old figs people!!)

The bases do not appear to be stock GW, obviously this may be totally legit, as we all lose bases etc, but if you were recasting and selling on, a stock of bases that were cheaper to get hold of etc may be in order. Has anyone received from these "loverly" people and checked to see if the bases are GW? I base this on the thinness of the gap between slot and edge. GW leave a bit more of a margin than other companies I have experienced. Plus they are often a little bit shallower in depth.

I know this sounds crazy, but it makes sense to me...

On the subject, as sad as I am to see old GW products not available, I don't agree that casting and selling on your own is acceptable.

IJW
27-09-2007, 14:45
Bah, why are you doing this?
In my case, the same copyright laws that protect GW from recasters protect my photographic prints (http://landmarksofbritain.co.uk/) from being freely copied. Undermining copyright law is indirectly an attack on my ability to earn a living.

That might sound far-fetched, but increasing copyright violations affect everyone in the creative industries.

bertcom1
27-09-2007, 14:46
Here's a seller with lots of sales of rare or limited edition stuff.
http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&ftab=AllFeedback&userid=t-tauri&iid=-1&de=off&items=25&interval=0&page=1

t-tauri. As in the t-tauri who is a Warseer member and moderator.

Large quantities of rare/oop/etc. means nothing.


Same pictures used for items?

If you have several identical items for sale, what is the point of taking more photos, once you have a nice clear one?


Things not in blisters?

I had a look at the buying history of this "glory4figures" person. Several times in the past, they have bought job lots of GW stuff, as well as old GW mail order catalogues. That looks like someone who buys secondhand in bulk, identifies things, cleans them up and repackages them for sale.

They also offer postage insurance and full refunds.


But they have also bought lots of bubble wrap, envelopes, jiffy bags, and address labels.
Plus a camping stove. ZOMG, they must be a recaster. :eyebrows:



Seriously, the evidence is far from conclusive.

Chaos and Evil
27-09-2007, 14:52
Seriously, the evidence is far from conclusive.
Try watching his auctions for two years, seeing him sell a hundred OOP (3rd edition) Thunderhawk gunships (All with the same picture), an ordinatus every week or two, as well as many other oop figures, then see if you want to repeat that.

As to their buying patterns...

Glory4Figures has been known to buy a rare figure, then start selling the same figure, weekly, soon after. Crazy huh?



Plus a camping stove. ZOMG, they must be a recaster.

That is actually a rather good piece of kit for a recaster to own... no inhaling fumes as you can cast with liquid metal outdoors! :D

Osbad
27-09-2007, 15:08
Collectively, these guys appear to outsell Specialist Games, with certain model types (Leman Russ & Baneblade tanks at the least, probably others too). These are not OOP models, they're from the current range.

This week, we were told that Specialist Games can't afford to release any new models for the forseeable future.

I believe that these two facts are connected, and I'm trying to do something about it.

WHile I'm not defending recasting, I think the connection you are looking for is GW's pricing strategy for SG. While they are insisting on selling one Baneblade for 」12 plus postage then there will always be a ready market for pirate casters.

If they reduced their prices to more sensible levels then there'd be no worries. GW putting a couple of greedy recasters out of business won't stop anything. Reducing their prices might.

Of course hell will freeze over first.

bertcom1
27-09-2007, 15:09
Try watching his auctions for two years, seeing him sell a hundred Thunderhawk gunships (All with the same picture), an ordinatus every week or two, as well as many other oop figures, then see if you want to repeat that.

That's a slightly different story then, if you have evidence over that kind of timescale.

Osbad
27-09-2007, 15:11
The only way of "proving" recasting is by a police raid catching them red-handed or a chemical analysis of their recast products - if the content of the metal differs from GW's then clearly they are recast.

While eBay buying and selling history may ring alarm bells it is only circumstantial evidence which may (if however unlikely) be innocent (For instance, what if this guy happened to raid the bins the day GW dumped their old model Thunderhawks because they had brought out the new one? Any former employee from Lenton will tell you of the tons of stuff that ends up in the bins for various reasons).

There's a big difference in the eyes of the law between evidence and proof.

Chaos and Evil
27-09-2007, 15:16
There's a big difference in the eyes of the law between evidence and proof.
Which is why I wanted to contact GW Legal... :)

I've collected some evidence (Not all of which I have related here), now the onus is on them.

lomo
27-09-2007, 15:20
All you have is circumstantial evidence, not direct evidence.

Chaos and Evil
27-09-2007, 15:21
While they are insisting on selling one Baneblade for 」12 plus postage then there will always be a ready market for pirate casters.

」10 plus postage. :)

Personally, I buy ForgeWorld Baneblades (」6 each), which are bigger, better quality, and cheaper, but that's beside the point really.


All you have is circumstantial evidence, not direct evidence.

Yep, I'll leave it up to GW Legal to win some auctions, do a chemical analysis, then do whatever they do to criminals...

Mahwell Skel
27-09-2007, 15:50
Great! So I get a camping stove, then what? :D

I did buy something off glory4 and when leaving feedback noticed the same item for sale on numerous occaisions. Another is up now actually. It did cause me some concern but after reading some of the links re counterfiet figures and what to look out for and looking at the mini carefully I could not find any fault with it.

It is hard to see how someone would come to have at least 50 of the same figure when at the time it was available the shop would display at most 5.

scarletsquig
27-09-2007, 15:54
Collectively, these guys appear to outsell Specialist Games, with certain model types (Leman Russ & Baneblade tanks at the least, probably others too). These are not OOP models, they're from the current range.

This week, we were told that Specialist Games can't afford to release any new models for the forseeable future.

I believe that these two facts are connected, and I'm trying to do something about it.

Ah, okay... if it's currently available models that they're copying, then by all means, rip them a new one :)

Crube
27-09-2007, 15:55
Again thouhg, if he was an ex staffer, he could have ordered a shedload at weight value.

I ordered 100 Epic Ork Fighter Bommers when I was a staffer, with the idea of adding them to a 13K epic ork army... didnt work out, so I sold them off in batches of 12...

selfconstrukt
27-09-2007, 16:58
Yep, I'll leave it up to GW Legal to win some auctions, do a chemical analysis, then do whatever they do to criminals...

A chemical analysis would not do any good if he was melting down GW models and recasting with that metal, since GW does this on a daily basis.
Also, GW metal is not a special formula. Its a common mix that you can get from any metal supplier, if you know what to ask for, Primarcium Tin.

reds8n
27-09-2007, 20:52
This week, we were told that Specialist Games can't afford to release any new models for the forseeable future.

, and I'm trying to do something about it.


For this alone your actions should be commended if not lauded.

Steve54
27-09-2007, 21:05
I really don't think there is any correlation between a couple of alleged recasters and SG being virtually closed.

As has been repeatedly stated initial EA sales were 300% above GW expectations and Chaos sales have also surprised them in volume. The simple fact is GW is doing badly and all money is being pumped into Apocalypse, terrain and other stuff and SG, whilst profitable, does not create the level of profits of the Big three - and will never do so without advertising, store presence etc.

I'd be perfectly happy to buy recasts of OOP models - GW have chosen not to sell them or replace them ith new models and their actions towards SG have done nothing to create any good feeling towards them.

Chaos and Evil
27-09-2007, 21:38
As has been repeatedly stated initial EA sales were 300% above GW expectations
IIRC it was nearer to 400% :)

t-tauri
27-09-2007, 21:38
Let's firstly make the point that recasting is illegal (certainly in the UK and most likely in most other countries as well) It also falls into Warseer's strikeable offences (http://warseer.com/forums/faq.php?faq=rules#faq_strikable_offences) under rule nine for violation of copyright or intellectual property.

The recasting issue is a bugbear of the collector's market as by their very action recasting wrecks the collectability and value of miniatures. It has been estimated by people inside GW that several times more Sergeant Centurius figures than were ever cast have passed through ebay. If you've a collection of rare minis it's in your interest to prevent other people releasing copies of them.

Recasting of more common miniatures wrecks GW's market. If you don't have the development, sculpting and marketing costs GW has then recasting is a profitable sideline if you've a decent casting machine. Repeated lots of undercoated figures are suspicious as the undercoat hides metal differences and casting flaws. Often the quality is markedly inferior to GW originals as well. On the other hand undercoated stuff could just be someone changing their mind on what army to build.

If you get a recast it's very difficult to tell, however. I've bought from the seller in question in the past and the minis were good casts and lack the obvious indicators of a recast. Even metallurgical analysis would be difficult since GW have changed their casting alloys many times over the years and have effectively recast their own figures when old moulds are replaced. I've had many worse casts direct from GW than from this seller.

The number of rare minis he puts out does raise some questions but isn't complete proof of recasting. Many ex GW staff (or current staff working through a front) have similar sales histories. I've never worked for GW but I have large numbers of similar minis from years of hoarding.

My guess was that he has access to GW casting and moulds though the appearance of some very rare minis recently - the Ordinatus and Squat air cars- has raised my suspicion level somewhat. It's still very difficult to make a call and I'd guess only the more experienced GW figure casters could make the call for certain.

dugan
28-09-2007, 12:39
Steve54 - What's 'EA'?

Crube
28-09-2007, 12:50
Epic Armageddon....

spaint2k
28-09-2007, 15:45
Same pictures used for items?

If you have several identical items for sale, what is the point of taking more photos, once you have a nice clear one?


Things not in blisters?

I had a look at the buying history of this "glory4figures" person. Several times in the past, they have bought job lots of GW stuff, as well as old GW mail order catalogues. That looks like someone who buys secondhand in bulk, identifies things, cleans them up and repackages them for sale.



You missed something quite important though. He sells the same bizarre quantities of figures in mixed groups of OOP figures, eg.
Figure A x2
Figure B x3
Figure C x1
Figure D x2
Same bizarre groupings every single time, and not corresponding to any blistered release. And for many many many months now. T-Tauri doesn't do that. Neither do I. Neither do any of the other established collectors who have ridiculously large amounts of figures to clear out.

Steve

Chaos and Evil
28-09-2007, 16:11
He's a recaster... s'obvious.

According to Darkseer, GW Legal aren't going to do anything about it.

Jan Skarthen
29-09-2007, 00:36
Any reason why not?

I guess some guy selling a few hundred pounds worth of stuff made in his kitchen is hardly worth the effort and cost to prosecute???

Mad Doc Grotsnik
29-09-2007, 00:38
Assuming Darkseer is indeed a part of GW Legal, which no disrespect to the guy, I very much doubt. Living London. When GW are based in Nottingham. Big commute like.....

Brimstone
29-09-2007, 08:43
I知 part of GW legal. Please link me to the offenders ebay page.

Care to prove that to the moderations satisfaction, you can post if the helpdesk if you want to avoid going public.

If not I suggest you cease trying to impersonate GW employees immediately.

The Warseer Inquisition

Arkley
29-09-2007, 09:54
Assuming Darkseer is indeed a part of GW Legal, which no disrespect to the guy, I very much doubt. Living London. When GW are based in Nottingham. Big commute like.....

But you are disrespecting him you are effectivly calling him a liar...

Brandir
29-09-2007, 09:56
There is nothing wrong with doubting whether Warseer members are 100% accurate when describing their jobs.

Chaos and Evil
29-09-2007, 10:11
Guys, I've met him a couple of times in real life... if he's lying, I know what he looks like... :D

Templar Ben
29-09-2007, 16:13
Agreed with MDG expose these charlatans if warseer users knew who they were and boycotted them they would soon have a business impact and possibly go away. I would imagine GW is interested in those commercially producing minis on a large scale due to the legal costs and test purchase operations etc to gather evidence.

I think the only one I have heard of was that guy in USA who got done asides from that nowt in UK. GW should publish their successes to warn others.


Or some warseers would take the opportunity to simply purchase a ton for Apoc.

Just saying.

fsssh
30-09-2007, 11:47
it would cost nearly 」1000 to get a small scale casting shop set up in your shed if you brought the stuff new. plus it's reasonably messy and there is a lot of skill involved.

think about how many mini's you would have to rip off and sell on eBay to make that back, plus your time and consumables - i certainly would not consider it a worthwhile exercise.

for the record - recasting is bad

Crazy Harborc
01-10-2007, 01:32
It's been awhile but there were reports in WD and later on Portent about GW legal going after a (some??) recaster(s). I seem to remember that a guy had been taken to court, got fined etc.;)

Recasters.......no excuses for what they do. They deserve to be taken to court. It's just another form of stealing/robbery.

selfconstrukt
01-10-2007, 05:49
Just because GW prints it in White Dwarf, doesn't mean its true. Kinda like psychological warfare, if people think they won a case already, others will be more afraid to do it in the future.

Brimstone
01-10-2007, 21:03
I知 part of GW legal. Please link me to the offenders ebay page.

Just to clarify things Darkseer IS NOT part of GW legal and will suffer the consequences of attempting to impersonate a GW employee even in jest.

Warseer will take action against anybody found attempting to pass themselves off as GW employee.

The Warseer Inquisition

Chaos and Evil
01-10-2007, 21:22
Shrug, naughty Darkseer. :D