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Finn
28-09-2007, 20:11
So I'm trying to organize a "big battle" at my local shop over fall break in November. We've had these events before, and I've been able to participate in them the previous 3 times. The first battle was a pitched battle between the forces of "Order" (Imperium, Eldar, and Tau) and double the amount of "Disorder" (all the rest of the xenos and the ubiquitous traitors). The second was a simple match-up of points, with some unique deployment rules based on your detachment's speed. The latest, just this past May, had an objective - a bridge in the center of two 6x4 tables.

Typically we see about 8-10 people per side, each playing at least one 3000 point force of up to two detachments. It looks like for my event, I'll have roughly 5-6 people per side. I plan on using 3000 points per person again, but do not plan on using the Apocalypse rules as I'm planning the event before the rules are released (as in, now).

But what I ask is this: we've been looking for some focus for our big battles. This previous one got us halfway there - the bridge was a focal point, yet we still had people who were just there fighting, not really going for any objective other than "I've got to kill the player in front of me". Granted, this happens for the large objectives - the initial forces get whittled down to practically nothing while the forces that come in later are the ones that do the objective-taking. However, by this point, one side is typically ground down to little bits and the battle's pretty much decided anyway.

So what we want/need are smaller objectives and events. Such as blowing up a power plant, which would disrupt the power flow to the defenders' fixed weapon positions. Or activating a locator beacon that allows for deep striking without scattering within 12" of the beacon. Things like that.

I'm not sure what type of world I'll be basing the battle on, but most of the terrain will likely be heavy urban - Cities of Death terrain rules may even be used for the entire table. There may be a park of green space somewhere on the table...Any ideas for objectives?

Torga_DW
28-09-2007, 20:21
Heres an idea shamelessly lifted from someone else on these boards (i forget who). Couple different tables, 'linked' together, each one with an objective. So each person has to decide which table they'll play on first (can leave one table, travel a bit, then reach another table). He was describing how an IG player was firing his basilisks onto another table for support, then the enemy got mad and landed an unfair number of troops on the table to wipe them out. The table wasn't signifiicant enough for reinforcements, so the single IG player had to hold out for as long as possible against overwhelming odds, firing his basilisks in support of the other armies for as long as possible. That sounded hell-cool to me, i'm thinking something along those lines. Hope that was helpful.

lordbeefy
28-09-2007, 20:41
I have used abandoned facilities in the past....very similar to computer games in that they grant benfits, such as....

Comms uplink building....grants a single orbital lance strike

Command bunker....grants an off board artillery barrage

Medical centre...grants a unit free rerolls to armour saves

Icon...control gifts all units within 12" the fearless rule, regardless of race

Vehicle repair bay...gives a free vehicle, say a Russ, or squadron of sentinels or similar.

Really are a huge number of possibilities.

Angel of the Black Parade
28-09-2007, 21:53
Orbital Relay - missile barrages and drop troops?

Lone Monkey
28-09-2007, 22:21
I like the ideas you were throwing out there Finn. It's a lot along the lines that me and my brother kick around for ideas every time we get the urge to plan a big battle. Problem is we never follow through. Also, unless I'm mistaken, I believe my Void Dragon and your Imperial flyer shot each other down in an epic dogfight of death during the last battle you listed. :D

Ozendorph
28-09-2007, 23:38
You could steal an idea from Dawn of War, and have a few Control Points on the table that grant "resource points" each turn that you hold them. The resource points could be used to purchase reinforcement squads (pulled from expired models), orbital strikes, or other abilities in later turns. Just a thought. :)

Spacecurves
30-09-2007, 23:36
Heres an idea shamelessly lifted from someone else on these boards (i forget who). Couple different tables, 'linked' together, each one with an objective. So each person has to decide which table they'll play on first (can leave one table, travel a bit, then reach another table). He was describing how an IG player was firing his basilisks onto another table for support, then the enemy got mad and landed an unfair number of troops on the table to wipe them out. The table wasn't signifiicant enough for reinforcements, so the single IG player had to hold out for as long as possible against overwhelming odds, firing his basilisks in support of the other armies for as long as possible. That sounded hell-cool to me, i'm thinking something along those lines. Hope that was helpful.


That was me :). I'm glad my description of one of my big games was inspiring! I've organized many such games over the years, and love doing it. If anyone, the person making this post included has specific questions for me on how to make them run smoothly feel free to send me a PM on this site or an email to spacecurves@yahoo.com .

I'll post some suggestions for the author of this post's big game in the near future when I have time to type them out.

Paragon Belial
01-10-2007, 01:23
I recently took part in a big game, and what we did was have all of the players write down personal goals and/or objectives. The shop had some funding to give out prizes for completing objectives.

My main goal for instance was to slay The Master of the Ravenwing, Sammael, who was deployed a quite a distance away, causing me to run a valiant squad of Plasma gun armed chaos Marines though about 2-3 other armies. in the end I slew him and won a Chaos Havoc blister for my trouble.

Things like that added a lot of fun and excitement. If you do not have funding for things like free merchandise maybe you could make up some cheap trophies or something for completed missions.

Spacecurves
01-10-2007, 20:47
As I sat down to write some ideas for your big game I realized I have to ask a few questions first!

How many tables of what size do you have available?
Do you want to play on one large connected table or have the event split into smaller games on multiple play areas?

How much time (in hours) do you want the event to last?

Do you want to have a linked game of battlefleet gothic or aeronotica imperialis as part of the larger conflict?

Once you answer these I'll give ya some suggestions.

Finn
02-10-2007, 02:52
I like the ideas you were throwing out there Finn. It's a lot along the lines that me and my brother kick around for ideas every time we get the urge to plan a big battle. Problem is we never follow through. Also, unless I'm mistaken, I believe my Void Dragon and your Imperial flyer shot each other down in an epic dogfight of death during the last battle you listed. :D

That was awesome and incredibly lame at the same time.

Though yours costs almost double mine, so I guess it would've been OK in any other game ;)


You could steal an idea from Dawn of War, and have a few Control Points on the table that grant "resource points" each turn that you hold them. The resource points could be used to purchase reinforcement squads (pulled from expired models), orbital strikes, or other abilities in later turns. Just a thought.

Very nice...


Our store has as many tables (each 4'x6') available as we could possibly want...From the interest level I've received so far, it looks like 6-8 or so people is about what's going to happen. Possibly more, as once things get more concrete people tend to get more interested...In any case, that would probably result in 2 or 3 4'x6' tables. We have plenty of terrain of most types available, and quite a few good ruined/intact buildings (some of them rather large). Our store doesn't have much of a following for BFG, and one large 40K event tends to take up a whole day anyway - I believe the last one went 8 hours or so, the others I participated in lasted 8 hours and about 12...

Spacecurves
02-10-2007, 03:23
Only one day of gaming? YOU ARE WEAK! kidding kidding...

Alright so with no bfg and 3 6x4 tables with 1-2 people per side per table you should play on one big gaming surface. Otherwise it will just feel like 3 regular games and won't have an epic quality to it.

Put 3 tables end to end and create some natural looking terrain. Maybe a city on one edge and have it change from suburbs to forest slowly by the end of the last table.

Fight over some objectives. Put out 5 objective terrain peices. Ruined factories, a strategic hill, etc., and have the point of the game be to control these objectives when the game ends. 2 more controlled than enemy = minor victory, 3 more controlled = major victory, 4 more controlled = crushing.

In addition, if your gaming group has long standing relationships/rivalries, throw in some personal objectives as well. If bob and jim always play on sundays and have a long going friendly rivalry, give them the objective of "capturing" the enemy general for interrogation. If they defeat their nemesis' HQ in cc, the model is kept on the board and attached to the winning squad as sort of a trophy. They drag the unconcious enemy general around with them as they move. If the unit falls back or is destroyed they drop their captive on the spot, and another unit can pick it up. If bob controlls jim's incapacitated HQ at the end of the game, he earns another "controlled objective" for his side! (and vica verca of course)

As an additional point, have one objective be a particularly impressive peice of terrain and put it dead center in the board. Gives everyone a focal point of the battle and a place for all the ridiculously souped up units there are sure to be a place to meet in epic combat. I believe the biggest cc Ive ever seen had 143 models in it at one point. I expect you to do better! Fix bayonetts conscripts and sound the charge! INTO THE FRAY!


I hope you find these ideas helpful, let us know how the game goes and what you decided to impliment!

Zapherion
02-10-2007, 03:35
why not try the kind of battle that was fought as the climax to the 13th black crusade in WD. basicallly, have several smaller battles (say 2000 points) on different tables that directly effect the outcome of the all important main/cental battle (say 4000 points). In this way, everybody has an objective and so everybody can get equally involved with the story like. IIRC, one objective resulted in a thunderhawk attack run, while another allowed a special character to be transported to the main board (maugan ra i believe) i seriously think you should consider this approach as it allowe lots of player to get involved without the insainity of huge, mental and unorganised battles

Finn
02-10-2007, 04:13
I'm against fighting lots of small battles, really. That's what we usually do, though they're not always tied together. We recently (1-2 months back) finished up a 10-week Vogen campaign. Really looking for a titanic battle here... :P


Put out 5 objective terrain peices. Ruined factories, a strategic hill, etc., and have the point of the game be to control these objectives when the game ends. 2 more controlled than enemy = minor victory, 3 more controlled = major victory, 4 more controlled = crushing.

I'm not sure how I overlooked that idea before. I'm thinking it's probably going to be just two tables, for an 8'x6' playing area - if there are only 8 people, anyway.

I'm thinking heavy Cities of Death terrain, with a large central objective and smaller objectives nearby that have an affect on the larger one. Some sort of tower/spire-like building in the center, which could be the center of the rebellious government's power or perhaps it's an archive housing an STC part or something. In any case, I'm thinking of determining scoring like so:

Compare victory points totals between sides-
-Minor victory: 100 pts, Solid victory: 180 pts, Crushing victory: 250 pts, Victorious slaughter: 300 pts.

Holding the central objective: 300 pts.
Holding each of 5-6 smaller objectives: 75 pts. each

Smaller objectives would be things like power plants, munitions dumps, a clocktower (classic sniper story!), etc...Just need to decide on them. Would probably be a good idea to go over the store's selection of terrain once more to gather other ideas/make sure the objective is actually able to be represented...

Spacecurves
02-10-2007, 04:36
sounds good finn, I'm sure it'll be a blast. Just be suret o have the objectives fairly evenly spread out so one tables isnt ignored as everyone piles models onto the middle one or something.

bhusus
02-10-2007, 04:56
If you want to complicate matters you could set it up like mission Risk, with cards that state that each player has their own objective and have one overarching objective (ie. in Risk World Domination). Also keep them secret until they are accomplished and use them as VP bonuses as opposed to game-winners - of course they'd have to be balanced but I'm sure it could be done.

Finn
02-10-2007, 05:29
I'd considered that. Although instead of assigning (not sure that's what you were implying) the objectives, I'd make a stack and they'd draw cards...

bhusus
02-10-2007, 05:33
Yeah you don't assign them - in mission Risk (there are different versions of this as well) its all drawn - actually that reminds me. In newer mission Risk, they have 4 missions per player - a lot easier and more fun for different games - each player draws one from 4 different categories, representing the difficulty of the mission. So for example one could be capturing a specific quarter with half points if contested and full if taken. An easier one would be a piece of terrain whereas a more difficult one could be a take and hold for so many turns or something...I'm not sure if these help you but I'm really starting to like these ideas...I think I found a way to spice up the boredom my buddies and I are feeling in our games...

LoneSniperSG
02-10-2007, 05:56
...so the single IG player had to hold out for as long as possible against overwhelming odds, firing his basilisks in support of the other armies for as long as possible. That sounded hell-cool to me, i'm thinking something along those lines. Hope that was helpful.

I've always had a mind to do that. Like, split up sides, put one player in charge of the assault troops, one in charge of the shooties, and one in charge of the Armor. Maybe if large enough, one person to control artillery.

Only for the reason of, different people are better operating with different things. I'm a whiz with Artillery deployment and Armor columns.. I tend to suck with troop management though.