PDA

View Full Version : Necrons and psychic powers



Vandur Last
28-09-2007, 22:50
According to the Necron fluff in the ancient wars of the C'tan against the Old Ones it was the psychic powers of thier enemies that the C'tan most feared. To rephrase that in a way less likely to enrage the Necron fanboi's: The psychic powers of the Eldar and possibly Orks were considered to be effective weapons against the armies of the Necrons.

This is an interesting bit of fluff which has spawned a few in game rules that add flavour to the Necron army. They have the Pariah's special ability that enables them to be great Psyker hunters and now they have the Psyker blocking ability conferred to thier Monoliths in Apocalypse games. I dont play Necron's, but i think these are great additions to the army. It makes them more interesting and shows that they have developed counter-measures to the threat posed by powerful Psykers.

However one thing irritates me about this.
The Necrons supposedly fear psychic powers, so they have developed counter-measures to it. These counter measures appear in the game rules. What does NOT appear is the supposed vulnerability of the Necrons to Psychic powers in the first place.
I think it would be interesting if psychic powers gained some kind of bonus against Necrons, such as negating WBB rolls, or disallowing the C'tan invulnerable save. If this was considered overpowered then perhaps the counter-measures discussed above could be beefed up or reduced in points cost.
This would be representative of the Necron background and at the same time add a fun new dimension to the game, where the enemy Psykers must be dealt with by the Necrons (utilizing their many anti-psyker tools) to allow the remaining Phalanx to overwhelm the enemy. For example.. :)


While i am trying to remain impartial and non-judgemental, it appears to me that this omission is a result of the fact that the Necron codex seems to have been written by a huge Necron fanboi. Creating special rules to show off the race/army's special weapons against their bane but not creating rules to show off the reason why that thing is their bane seems unfair to me.
More than that, it kind of seems that the whole anti-psyker angle was just an excuse to indulge what appears to be some developers grudge against Eldar when viewed in conjunction with the Living Metal's anti-Lance abilities and the high rate of fire gauss weaponry that is more capable of downing a Falcon than a Lascannon.

Anyway, the last paragraph is just a bit of a rant. The main thing i want to hear is what people would think if there were some special rules giving the Necron's and/or C'tan some specail vulnerability to Psychic powers.

Lord_Squinty
28-09-2007, 23:18
In fear of starting *another* thread on the topic -
have you seen what the lash can do to a necron army?
not pretty....

But its a fine idea in theory -
Could reduce points cost of C'tan
Or introduce wargear that hinders psychic powers?
You'd think an army THAT old - with a fear of psychics and the ability to hold back the eye of terror - they would've developed some kind of defence...

Torga_DW
29-09-2007, 00:04
They did. The pylons on cadia are one example.

Green Shoes
29-09-2007, 00:27
I think the C'Tan were afraid of psychic races on a larger scale than immidiate battlefield roles. Things like the Webway and super-rituals for destroying entire worlds, more than a Faseer shooting lightning out of his fingertips.

I see a good comparison in nuclear weapons. The average soldier in the middle of a firefight would not be too concerned about a nuke, because it would simply not be a practical aplication of power, and there are more pressing issues, i.e bullets. Compare that scenario with the idea of a whole nation being nuked as opposed to a battlefield, and the prospect is alot scarier.

Vandur Last
29-09-2007, 01:04
I think the C'Tan were afraid of psychic races on a larger scale than immidiate battlefield roles. Things like the Webway and super-rituals for destroying entire worlds, more than a Faseer shooting lightning out of his fingertips.

I see a good comparison in nuclear weapons. The average soldier in the middle of a firefight would not be too concerned about a nuke, because it would simply not be a practical aplication of power, and there are more pressing issues, i.e bullets. Compare that scenario with the idea of a whole nation being nuked as opposed to a battlefield, and the prospect is alot scarier.

OK thats good argument for why the Necrons should not have any tabletop vulnerability to psychic powers. However if this is the case and the Necrons arent afraid of small-scale and "local" type psychics, why do they have tabletop rules for specialized counters to such "minor" threats?
It would be the equivalent of a policeman wearing a radiation suit and a geiger counter while patrolling New York City because the government is more afraid of Nuclear Weapons than it is of criminals with firearms.

It just doent sit right that necrons get to say " Were afraid of those so we get special rules to protect us against them, but we are not afraid of them so they dont get any rules against us."

Rioghan Murchadha
29-09-2007, 02:12
It just doent sit right that necrons get to say " Were afraid of those so we get special rules to protect us against them, but we are not afraid of them so they dont get any rules against us."

Witch hunters/Daemon hunters... Get special rules against psykers, but have no weaknesses to psychic powers.

Space Marines... Get psychic hoods, but have no inherent weakness against psychics.

Eldar... Get runes of warding, but have no weakness against psykers...

etc. etc. etc..

Fluff is not rulez.

Vandur Last
29-09-2007, 02:40
Witch hunters/Daemon hunters... Get special rules against psykers, but have no weaknesses to psychic powers.

Space Marines... Get psychic hoods, but have no inherent weakness against psychics.

Eldar... Get runes of warding, but have no weakness against psykers...

etc. etc. etc..

Fluff is not rulez.

Yes but those races dont have backgrounds that state that they ARE vulnerable to Psykers. Indeed they have the opposite, background that states that they are powerful and dangerous Psykers.

Imagine this then: The fluff says the Mariens are tough and well armed, but the nex codex comes out and Marines have Toughness 3 from now on.
Would anyone think this is reasonable?

Also "Fluff is not rulez" is a bit of a cop out argument. You can say that to any question like this, its like just making a post that says "Because I said so".

Besides if Fluff should not have an effect on the rules then why bother having fluff? Indeed, why bother having painted miniatures, unit names and different races. Without fluff you would be sitting in font of a empty tabletop with calculator in hand working out results from battles between "Force 1A" and "Force 2B". Boring.
Give me the war torn battlefields of the 41st millenium anyday.

Polonius
29-09-2007, 03:20
The reason they're scared of psychic powers shows in their inability to use them on their own. For most armies, particularly in 2nd edition but still today, psykers themselves provide the best protection against enemy psykers. The necrons don't have so much a vulnerability to psykers so much as no native defense against them, so they look elsewhere.

A better analogy might be to see the analogy in the navies in real world history. The best defense against a naval power was a strong navy of your own. Other defenses (coastal batteries, u-boats, fireships, etc.) are essentially stop gap measures because they couldn't compete on the flat playing ground. 16th century england wasn't necessarily more vulnerable to the Spanish Armada than say... the Italian city states, it was that they didn't possess the capital ships to repluse it on their own, so they went to the dirty tricks manual.

killa kan kaus
29-09-2007, 03:20
Another example is that fluff states that orks are very strong and it would be ridiculous for them to have str 3 and if it was in the codex everyone would complain. oh.....wait......

elvinltl
29-09-2007, 03:38
GW like to make Necrons in such a way they appear Flawless... Notice their uber rules that always overwrites other rules because of their Superior Technologies?

Living Metal
We will be back
Nodal Grid in Apoc
Psyhic Null
Veil of Darkness

Truth is they are far from Flawless... They have the option of these rules but cannot take all into a battle but rather customise against certain armies. And speaking of Psyhic Powers, Pariahs are EXTREMELY rare and imagine fielding a squad against a Tau army which uses no spells and rely completely on ranged technology...

Another reason is also for balancing games. As you mentioned about Orks being toughness 3 despite their brute strength. But just imagine 30 Orks at T4... >.< Wouldn't that make Ork imba? GW will have to raise the point cost of Orks and Orks will not be a hord army which contradicts its Fluff again.

And have you seen Farseers killing WitchHunters with Rune of Warding before? I really lmao when i forced him to take Perils of the Warp Test when he casted Hammer of the Witches. Best part was my Farseer got to re-roll Ld check with Embolden and roll again with GhostHelm making him/her very less much vulnerable to anti-psykers then WitchHunters.

last akodo
29-09-2007, 03:45
To be honest I would like to see the necrons get some sort of weakness vs psychic powers but TBH I can't see it happening. I mean other than direct damage spells getting a boost what could you do? Well other than giving each individual spell an anti-cron ability (which would be very annoying).

If you were to do that however then shouldn't the tyranids get a major psychic defense due to the shadow in the warp? (since the warp gets an almost total blackout around them).

On the fluff note for orks (at the least) GW has just gotten too carried away with the orks. I mean seriously a culture that only ever fights is massively strong and fires guns to ... make noise. These are by themselves an amusing way to emphasis their nature but that is now the only fluff given and portrays them somewhat poorly.

I <3 W
30-09-2007, 00:42
it makes sense, but they've made my 'crons suck so bad already with the high points cost. Another weird rule glitch is that 'crons will phase out even if they're not outnumbered. This is a HUGE error:

-Necrons do not retreat, except if it is logical.
-it says something by the lines of that in their codex.
-now when I saw the phase out rule this didnt make too much sense to me. An army that is not an army that is supposed to retreat easily gets the biggest retreat rule ever...but then I realise that for their greater good (getting the most possible souls for their C'tan) teleporting away is smart to make sure there are the most possible necrons left over. thouhg I don't don't get why robots don't count for they're part of the army too and the gods dont wean them to be lost. I mean there are more potential souls to be eaten by whaty a monolith kills than by what a warrior kills (duh) and also if there is one man who kills the last warrior but there are like 9 tomb spyders left. teleporting away is STUPID!!!!

-once there were 2 marines left on my friends army (bolter and lascannon) and 2 warriors, a lord, a monolith, 2 scarab swarms (2 wounds/3wounds) and a monolith. He takes out a warrior with the lasconnon, I run away...I mean wtf......

Thats a real problem with the 'crons. If they fix it, the 'crons will be less overpowered than they are. AND it'll make something make sens. GW seems to have a problem with that. They are loosinf track of their own fictional world and making things no longer stick together. they need to catch inconsistencies like this HUGE one. I've noticed that as the 40k world evolves GW has got some huge inconsistencies.

EDIT: this really bugs the ***** out 'o me so I'm going to start a thread about it.

EarlGrey
30-09-2007, 01:09
So all races with access to psykers get an advantage over Necrons?
Screws the Tau a bit... :)

The way I think of it is that, well, they're basically machines and lack the same mind (sentience, thought etc, instead they're mostly automatons - it says the Lords retain the most of their personality? Haven't got the codex to hand so am fumbling a bit) of other races, so by that all psychic powers that affect the mind (which is quite a lot) shouldn't work... but they do. That's a weakness surely?

In other words, they've tried to protect themselves with the metal body, but because of their existing weakness it only makes them as tough as other races. So it balances out.
Hope that makes sense. :)

Iracundus
30-09-2007, 01:19
The supposed Necron weakness against psychics has never been very well reflected in the background or rules considering the Necrons were described as being thrown back by the counterattack of the Eldar and Old Ones, when the Eldar were still in the spear and sword wielding era of technology. It doesn't make much sense why the Necrons should so loathe and fear psykers when most of the powers out there are just duplicate direct fire weaponry, and when a lot of the Eldar stuff is just "booster" powers (Fortune and Guide for example) that "fluffwise" would not have been a huge deal when you're firing gauss weaponry against some spear elves.

Really the only weakness shown in the rules is the C'tan loss of invulnerable save against the Instant Death of a wraithcannon and that isn't going to be a very common occurence at all.

The_Outsider
30-09-2007, 01:29
ITT people who don't know jack about the necron army within the 40k game.

Firstly they are lacking in their suppoed ani psyker abilities - this can easily be solved with tweaking of the soulles and psychic abomination rules for pariahs (i.e extending the range).

Secodly a peice of wargear for the lord that acts like a psychic hood would be ideal.

Anything other than that is overkill and starts to creep into the area of game balance issues.

Hell even spaces maiens have more reliable anti psychic abilities.

While its not perfect now it works well within the confiens of the necron army, buggering about with it isn't truly needed, whats need is a fine tweaking.

And I repeat what has been said, Fluff isn't rules.

Rioghan Murchadha
30-09-2007, 07:36
Also "Fluff is not rulez" is a bit of a cop out argument. You can say that to any question like this, its like just making a post that says "Because I said so".

Besides if Fluff should not have an effect on the rules then why bother having fluff? Indeed, why bother having painted miniatures, unit names and different races. Without fluff you would be sitting in font of a empty tabletop with calculator in hand working out results from battles between "Force 1A" and "Force 2B". Boring.
Give me the war torn battlefields of the 41st millenium anyday.

No.. it's not like saying 'because I said so.' It's like saying 'just because someone wrote a story about something, doesn't mean it would make a good game.'

Ever read the Gaunt's Ghosts books? According to them, the Imp Guard is the most badass army you could ever field. Don't work that way on the table. According to C.S. Goto, kids with sticks and stones can destroy eldar tanks... We all know how hard that really is to do... That is all officially sanctioned Black Library fluff/background material.

Fluff exists to give you a REASON to fight the battles, not to provide the rules by which you fight them.

Sekhmet
30-09-2007, 08:15
Yes but those races dont have backgrounds that state that they ARE vulnerable to Psykers. Indeed they have the opposite, background that states that they are powerful and dangerous Psykers.


Marines are vulnerable to gauss flayers. It says so in the fluff. It utterly destroyers anything it hits, be it armor or flesh. Why do Marines get saves against the Necron basic weapon?

C'tan are gods. In the fluff they take on entire armies by themselves... in Epic, they're in the same class as the largest Titans, meaning they can cause unimaginable damage on the battlefield. So why in 40k (table top game) are the C'tan extremely expensive, yet slow, relatively fragile (no regular save) and are weaker than some Chaos characters?

Because fluff != rules. Because there is a thing called Game Balance.

Khaine's Messenger
30-09-2007, 08:22
Yes but those races dont have backgrounds that state that they ARE vulnerable to Psykers.

Neither do Necrons, really. The only entities known to have the phrase "warp energy is anathema to them" uttered about are the C'tan, and while it would be amusing to allow every warp-based power or weapon to negate their invulnerable save (including all attacks made with Hammerhand? Now that would be a laugh!), I think the wraithcannon vulnerability and high points cost is enough, considering that the wraithguard are quite likely the technological descendants of the original Iron Knights of Vaul.


Besides if Fluff should not have an effect on the rules then why bother having fluff?

Fluff is and fluff isn't rules. I've known people to quibble over things like being able to shoot krak missiles straight up landraider assault ramps and the like; sometimes the granularity of the game abstraction just doesn't support certain ideas and you have to ponder a bit.

Son_Of_A_Horus
30-09-2007, 08:33
Effectively, Necrons have the same vulnerabilities to psykers as any other army. And the WBB roll is the same thing as FNP. This would put them on a par with DeathGuard. Necrons are hard as it is, yet just as weak as other races. IMHO.

Grazzy
30-09-2007, 08:40
I dont think that the powers used by farseers/librarians/ sorcerers are really a threat to the crons compared to the powers used by the old ones.

justatyranid
30-09-2007, 10:53
what about force weapons? would they get their special rule against say the C'tan or the lord and would the C'tan be killed off if he failed his inv save and would the lord with a res-orb get his WWB roll.

Captain Micha
30-09-2007, 11:07
I think this post was written by an eldar fan boi.

Falcons are invincible to everything. -everyone- knows that.
The way the necrons function makes perfect sense really. Especially the C'tan.. *ever see what a psycannon does to a c'tan? It ain't pretty*

Pariah are worthless anyway in current trim, they'll -never- get close enough to the enemy psyker for their powers to be worth anything
and the null zone between a necron phalanx.. You do realise we're talking about apoc right? Balance is not a key point to that game, gw even says this openly. Let alone the fact that lets see. Ig get baneblades, titans, Eldar get their superheavies.. GG no re phalanx.

In an apoc game you would be worried about the nuclear weapons to be used... any time a titan is deployed is about the equivalent of getting out the nukes. So why -wouldn't- they have rules against it.

Necrons are terribly vunerable to psykers. In the exact same way as the Tau. They don't have an effective counter to it in the standard game. Except unlike the Tau, the crons had experience in dealing vs psykers. Up until recently the Tau did not.

Ps anyone that thinks the Necrons are overpowered, are either lazy, play with 6 man teams, (of any race variety) or just don't understand their rules. (which is the most common)

Eldar.. now -that- is imbal in mini form. (which my crons can't even compete against. even against a 'balanced' dar list consisting of fire dragons, das, guardians, banshees, a gay falcon, and wraithlord... and autarch hq)

Vandur Last
30-09-2007, 12:15
I think this post was written by an eldar fan boi.

Falcons are invincible to everything. -everyone- knows that.
The way the necrons function makes perfect sense really. Especially the C'tan.. *ever see what a psycannon does to a c'tan? It ain't pretty*

Ps anyone that thinks the Necrons are overpowered, are either lazy, play with 6 man teams, (of any race variety) or just don't understand their rules. (which is the most common)

Eldar.. now -that- is imbal in mini form. (which my crons can't even compete against. even against a 'balanced' dar list consisting of fire dragons, das, guardians, banshees, a gay falcon, and wraithlord... and autarch hq)

Took a bit longer than i had thought, but here come the Necron fanbois.

Only thing i want to respond to here is that i think its silly that the Psycannon works so well against the C'tan. Its supposed to be an anti-psyker weapon, not a weapon against those vulnerable to psykers.

Captain Micha
30-09-2007, 12:40
I think it's supposed to be weapon that uses psychic/warp energy. does that make it make anymore sense?

Also, warp cannons are nasty nasty evil things to C'tan and necrons as well. as they inflict instant death on a c'tan thats a wound period.. (and no it's not all that hard to get them out of orb range. *something* on the table top is bound to be out of it especially if the lord is of the veiling variety)

So yes, psychic powers do infact rape necrons.

Also, you can shoot those craptastic Pariah with said weapons and it mauls them beyond words. (as they -never- get a wbb anyway) which allows your army's psykers to then proceed to rape the rest of the army without worry of -anything-

Ps I'm not just a Necron fan boi. But I do know just -how- gimped they are against the warp. more so really than space marines. for a marine getting shot with a wraith cannon is like being shot with a plasma weapon (still going to kill him on a 2+.... ) for a necron it's far worse. especially since the -won't- be getting up afterwards

The_Outsider
30-09-2007, 13:11
I'd hardly say necrons are more vulnerable vs wraithcannon than any other army is.

In fact because C'tan cannot sufer instant death specifically vs the wraithcannon means they are actually more reslient than most. The vulnerability is the "wound with no save" part.


The short answer is the premise of this thread is "I want fluff to be just like game rules" which if you go down that road you'll soon find that Necrons are the most powerful race in the fluff.

Ever read the novel Nightbringer? in that 4 necron warriors (I repeat, 4) kill roughly-

1 Dark eldar haemonculous
1 DE wych
A squads worth of DE warriors
Several marines (about 5 IIRC)
1 skanky little human
Possibly a DE lord as well.


Even without the DE lord in game 4 necron warriors would practically never be able to take that lot.

So when it comes to power in fluff, Necrons > your precious little race, regardless of what it is.

Captain Micha
30-09-2007, 13:15
let alone according to fluff the necrons all but wiped out -all- of the old races. -before- the enslaver plague..

Iracundus
30-09-2007, 13:43
Looks like the Necron fanboys really are coming out. I suggest you check your fluff again. The Necron Codex itself says the C'tan and Necrons reeled from the Old Ones and their subject races' counterattack. The Necron Great Work was started in response to that Old One comeback.

Captain Micha
30-09-2007, 13:46
and it goes further than that saying that they pushed the old ones back to the brink of annihilation -again- then they began the great work... just to ensure that it never happened again and then the enslaver plague happened.

the only reason the old ones and their kiddies won was because C'tan started eating each other and even then it didn't really matter until the enslaver plague

Iracundus
30-09-2007, 13:57
That's very creative misreading and misinterpretation there. Nowhere in the Necron Codex does it say a single thing about the C'tan or Necrons pushing back the Old One counterattack. In fact it says quite the opposite:


The C'tan's empire of destruction was sent reeling; the forces of the Empyrean were anathema to them, and for all the hellish destruction they unleashed, they could not stay the Old Ones' relentless advance. --1st column, 1st paragraph, last sentence p. 26 Necron Codex

The fact they began their great warding is not the same as this fictitious annihilation of the Old Ones. Also the C'tan fighting each other occurred before the Old One counterattack. That infighting was detailed on p. 25. If you're going to attempt to debate the fluff, it's useful to at least know the basics and not try to make things up.

Captain Micha
30-09-2007, 14:01
The Necrons had been vindicated in their pursuit of cold science and had the undoubted pleasure of seeing the old ones civilization collapse.

Sounds like victory to me.

The old ones lost. Even if by their own making they still lost.

The C'tan started eating each other before the counter offensive. which is the only reason that the old ones even 'succeeded' in their attempt to win. and even then it was still short lived.

The only reason they went to sleep was because the galaxy had all but been extinguished of life. (and that's their favorite food) at no point was it because the Old ones or the Eldar and the other children beat them.

Now what I want to know is how did the space elf ninjas survive the plague... Orks are fungus spores so it makes sense in their case.. (fungus can lie dormant for a very long time usually)

Iracundus
30-09-2007, 14:05
Those were the Enslavers causing the collapse of the Old Ones, not the Necrons. They were "vindicated" because their tech base didn't lead to their own self destruction. That is not the same as saying the Necrons annihilated the Old Ones, when in fact the Necrons were powerless to stop the Old Ones' advances. The sequence of events: Old Ones counterattack -> Necrons pushed back and powerless to stop them -> Enslaver plague brought about by psychics -> Old One civilization collapses -> Necrons left standing.

You really need to read more carefully as you are drawing two different topics and getting them confused. Cause and effect are being mixed up. Enslavers brought about the defeat and collapse of the Old Ones when their psychic race plan backfired. That is utterly different from saying the Necrons pushed back the Old Ones.

Again nowhere is it stated the Old Ones succeeded "only" because the C'tan fought each other. Stop making up justifications to put the Necrons on a pedestal. It says specifically and canonically in the Codex that despite all the destruction unleashed by the C'tan, even unified, they were unable to stop the Old One advance. It is becoming ever more apparent that you are playing fast and loose with Necron background and making stuff up when proof is brought up showing the Necrons were not invincible and the be all and end all of 40K. What next? Denial of the Necron defeat on Medusa V?

Vandur Last
30-09-2007, 14:08
The Necrons had been vindicated in their pursuit of cold science and had the undoubted pleasure of seeing the old ones civilization collapse.

Sounds like victory to me.

The old ones lost. Even if by their own making they still lost.

The C'tan started eating each other before the counter offensive. which is the only reason that the old ones even 'succeeded' in their attempt to win. and even then it was still short lived.

Yeah im sure. The Galaxy is currently occupied by untold trillions of psychic races, the Orks in particular inhabit every area that has yet to be explored. The very fabric of Warp and realspace overlap in many areas of space. Daemons and Dark Gods are tearing at the edges of reality and frequently send their servants to destroy the inhabitants of the material plane.

The Necrons have , what a few dozen or hundred worlds?

Doesnt sound like science and logic have prevailed over the madness of the Warp to me.

Captain Micha
30-09-2007, 14:10
The enslaver plagued happened before they could succeed. it says it right where you're quoting. It even says it right ******* there about it being a matter of time until they did succeed at the warding. which implies they had enough time to do so. which means had it not been for the backfiring of the Old ones war methods they -still - would have won

and it was part of their plan to let the galaxy bloom with new life. so they could eat it all over again.

Iracundus
30-09-2007, 14:11
Eventually about to succeed in their Great Work again is totally different from what you were trying to make up before, which was namely the C'tan had already succeeded and pushed the Old Ones back and annihilated them. You are shifting your position now only after your previous one was proven to be made up.

Captain Micha
30-09-2007, 14:14
It's been a good while since I've read my codex fluff (as meaningless as it is anyway in the case of the necrons) so I didn't remember it all that well. the end result was the same Necrons one, Old ones zero.

on the original topic, the Necrons -don't- have a means to counter the psychic threat. aside from apparently phalanxes and pylons (like Cadia's... I don't know if thats the same kind that you buy from fw or not..)

And don't say pariah are.. their just a joke anyway. (Now you could say the Culexus are.. and I could agree to that however)

Iracundus
30-09-2007, 14:26
So in other words you didn't know the Necron background at all. The fluff isn't meaningless when it is at the basis for what is being discussed and when it is being manipulated to try and portray the C'tan and Necrons as more uber than they are.

The cause and effect is critical here and that is what is conveniently being twisted to portray the C'tan and Necrons as unbeatable. The Enslavers causing the collapse of the Old Ones is not the same as the Necrons causing the collapse. The fact that the Necrons were left standing is not the same as saying the Necrons defeated the Old Ones. The fact the C'tan had a plan (which was incomplete and which is still incomplete in the 40K present) is not the same as saying they had already succeeded.


It is not reflected at all in any game rules even remotely just why the Necrons loathe and are vulnerable to psychics. Their monolith phalanx is already a hell of a lot more defense than the Tau have. The Tau despite this have no particular fear or vulnerability to psychics. A lot of the 40K game powers boil down to direct fire weapons. The enemy having an occasional additional heavy bolter or lascannon equivalent in a squad is hardly something that would have the Necrons so worked up, and that lack of match between ingame and fluff is what the opening poster was commenting on.

The_Outsider
30-09-2007, 14:33
Now for some fluff!

here is the order of events -

1) Old ones encounter necrontyr

2) necrontyr declare war on Old ones but get easily owned due to webway.

3) many years pass (millenia) and necrontyr tech develops to rival old ones

4) necrontyr discover c'tan

5) Nightbringer is summoned

6) necrontyr persuade NB there are better meals than themselves

7) NB + necrontyr declare war 9again) on old ones, old ones fall back at the power of the C'tan

8) Old ones go "surprise, eldar!" and "orkses!"

9) All hell breaks lose and the galaxy is literally being ripped apart

10) old ones slowly start to lose ground

11) old ones hold up in their last citadels

12) necrons start to work on the "great plan" to stop the lieks of the eldar

13) before it comes ot completion all the fighting and disruption it caused in the warp unleashes the enlsavers

14) C'tan seeing that the enslavers are eating everyone (and tainting them with the warp no less) they decide ot call it a day and hiberrnate. After all they are immortal.

15) a cackload of time passes

16) 41st millenuim.

Iracundus
30-09-2007, 14:43
Incorrect timeline. In particular, it is incorrect with the timing of the introduction of the Eldar, Orks, and other psychic races.

Again as detailed on p. 25 of the Necron Codex, 2nd column, last 3 paragraphs:

The Necrons renew the war against the Old Ones and push them back. The C'tan start fighting among themselves. The Old Ones get impatient and push their pets to have more psychics.

Then we move on to p.26 where as already quoted, the C'tan were powerless to stop the Old Ones' advances. In response they begin the Great Work, which when completed (which it wasn't and still hasn't been) would seal the galaxy from the warp. The denizens of the warp begin infiltrating into reality and in desperation the Old Ones breed the Orks and Jokaero but it's too late as the Enslaver plague begins in full force. Orks come after the Eldar and after the C'tan and Necrons were forced to fall back.


Please, get your own race's background right! All this is very simply and chronologically laid out in the Necron Codex. Over and over again there is this selective misinterpreting and re-arranging by Necron fanboys to try and make the C'tan and Necrons look better and the Old Ones look worse, specifically in the selective ignoring of the fact it states the Necrons could not stop the Old One advance and the made up bit about the Old One counterattack losing ground to a C'tan counterattack.

Captain Micha
30-09-2007, 14:47
I already showed a few good examples as to how the psychic stuff is more powerful against necrons than conventional weapons. Such as the D cannon, wraith cannon, psycannon.

Also witchblades are powerful vs them as well. While yes this stuff is as 'effective' vs marines as it is necrons. Necrons are much less likely to get up from a good chunk of those examples. I think that shows it being their bane quite well. You know that whole no more wbb thing.

Shoot a necron warrior with a plasma gun/cannon he goes down and gets up again. Shoot a necron warrior with a d cannon or wraithcannon and he never comes back. See what I mean now? they don't need special rules to show that it is the bane of necrons everywhere.

Now there is one thing I think they could change, and that would be even with an orb. a cron shot with a dcannon, wraith cannon, killed by force weapon, witch blade, or psycannon do not wbb

Also the Old ones did apparently suck... they did have to make Eldar, and Orks to even fight back....

TheOverlord
30-09-2007, 14:50
The history of the Universe in 1 minute, buy it now!

Iracundus
30-09-2007, 14:55
Incorrect reading of the rules. Only on a to-wound roll of 6 for wraithcannon and d-cannon hits do orb-less Necrons not come back. On any other roll, the Necrons still get WBB rolls. Neither of those two weapons have Strength and so cannot inflict Instant Death via the rules for high Strength. The Necrons are no more vulnerable in any way to these or to witchblades than Marines or any other target. With their WBB, they are still less vulnerable than a Marine as all those weapon rules are applied equally to both Marine and Necron targets.

Captain Micha
30-09-2007, 15:45
which is still more likely to happen than say gauss actually working on a falcon *or anything for that matter:p*

I thought it was always instant death hm. Still makes them a very good unit to take against necrons though *popping monos anyone? *

However you have to admit, wraithcannons are still > plasma when it comes to downing necrons. Which makes them more useful none the less. even though it's only on a 6... (since supposedly necrons pop land raiders all the time on -double- 6s)

they are still slightly harder than a marine is vs a wraith cannon, but then again necrons are supposed to be harder than marines. but the wraith cannon and it's cousin can negate wbb. Which is far better than a good chunk of weapons can do.