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Son_Of_A_Horus
29-09-2007, 19:23
Does anyone out there have any news on a SW update? My mate is pulling his hair out.

Heretic12
29-09-2007, 19:29
Some people think it will be in late 08, probably after codex daemons, and some might argue that SM Redux or something similar is meant to be in that time as well.

Splagbot
29-09-2007, 19:29
As far as I'm aware there aren't any plans in the immediate future, unfortunately a new SW codex seems to be low on their list of priorities, I could be wrong though as I'm afr from in the loop.

Hicks
29-09-2007, 21:26
As far as I'm aware there aren't any plans in the immediate future, unfortunately a new SW codex seems to be low on their list of priorities, I could be wrong though as I'm afr from in the loop.

Wich I think is odd. I remember that when the last codex came out SW were selling like crazy.

Glabro
29-09-2007, 21:52
Crap.
*sigh*. I suppose Iīll just go with the Blood Angels, then.
No point in waiting years on end. And dammit, I wonīt be getting them when they finally come, then..I refuse to...

RavenMorpheus
29-09-2007, 22:32
Does anyone out there have any news on a SW update? My mate is pulling his hair out.

I don't see that happening in the near future - GW seems to be concentrating on Apocalypse, the CSM codex and possibly the Ork codex going by the rumour mill.

I don't get why they did a DA or BA in the way they have done, timescale wise, to be honest, if they wanted to do seperate SM codices for DA, BA or SW then they should have done them all at the same time and released them all as proper books and one after the other if not at the same time. Having said that we might see an "official" SW codex printed in WD in the same was as the BA one has been?

CrewDog
30-09-2007, 00:08
What is so wrong with the current Space Wolves codex that you think you need another one already? I had to use a copy of White Dwarf as a supplement for my Wolves till what we have now came out.

The_Outsider
30-09-2007, 00:20
Thats the whole point - a lot of SW stuff is actually in the SM codex.

Notable examples include -

Venerable dreads (and the SW one is better).

Stand alone techmarines.

Cheap wargear for squad leaders.


The current SW codex is absolutely solid and still noe of the best around if you can play it right IMO the only area BA and DA beat it are its HQ's, even then ragnar, logan and ulrik are monsters (and fairly cheap).

Also if you want to play by RaW (though in this case you deserve a slap) ragnar and grimnar aren't IC's. Crouching tiger hidden wolf lord.

LoneSniperSG
30-09-2007, 00:45
Crap.
*sigh*. I suppose Iīll just go with the Blood Angels, then.
No point in waiting years on end. And dammit, I wonīt be getting them when they finally come, then..I refuse to...

Why settle for vampires when you can have scruffy werewolves? All you have to do is track down the SW codex on Ebay or something. Not that hard.

Splagbot
30-09-2007, 02:24
What is so wrong with the current Space Wolves codex that you think you need another one already?

Already?

That codex has been out for a fair while now and it's well overdue for a re-release, not least as it offers very little in the way of background for the newer gamer who may not and most likely will not know much of the background that we as veteran gamers have access to.


I had to use a copy of White Dwarf as a supplement for my Wolves till what we have now came out.

Which rules in White Dwarf are you refering to, the old ones released way back in the days of 2nd edition or the ones released in chapter approved in the early days of 3rd edition 40K?

victorpofa
30-09-2007, 02:38
What is so wrong with the current Space Wolves codex that you think you need another one already?

Assault Marines that cost 8 points too much.

Terminators that cost 8 points too much and require an HQ to field.

Assault Terminators that cost 10-15 points too much and require an HQ to field.

These are the big ones for me.

CrewDog
30-09-2007, 04:47
Already?

That codex has been out for a fair while now and it's well overdue for a re-release, not least as it offers very little in the way of background for the newer gamer who may not and most likely will not know much of the background that we as veteran gamers have access to.



Which rules in White Dwarf are you refering to, the old ones released way back in the days of 2nd edition or the ones released in chapter approved in the early days of 3rd edition 40K?


Yes, the White Dwarf I was speaking of was the one that had a Chapter Approved codex for the Wolves prior to their codex coming out.

I agree that the new one lacks the fluff that was bursting at the seams out of the old codex. Seeing that as well as some of the older characters brought back would be pretty nice again.




Assault Marines that cost 8 points too much.

Terminators that cost 8 points too much and require an HQ to field.

Assault Terminators that cost 10-15 points too much and require an HQ to field.

These are the big ones for me.


Every Army has it's pros and cons... having 15 Blood Claws led by a Wolf Guard battle leader on the prowel is a pro for me. Nothing beats the look on an opponents face when he charges in and see's that he gets counter charged by a bunch of PO'ed scrappers.

Having Grey Hunters that can carry a bolter and a CCW is a pro for me.

Having the basic stats for most of the vehicles in another book is a pain, but who doesn't have more than one codex in their game room anyways. I have several, but then I have been playing for several years and have had time to collect them.


So sure, I'll jump on the wagon and say they need to redo this one for my Wolves.... but in reality it is a decent book that is playable fairly well as is.



And actualy Wolf Guard being the only guys in the SW army that can wear terminator armor count as one HQ choice regardless of how many you field with an upward limit of 20 total for the army. This representing the "eliteness" of the Wolf Guard. Paying a little more for them when you can field them in any squad as battle leaders to bolster firepower or leadership is a big plus.

Paying more for jump Marines reflects the Space Wolves reluctance to use said jump packs. They loath technology such as this and would rather fight with both feet on the ground.... same reason they won't teleport into combat.

WLBjork
30-09-2007, 06:37
Thanks CrewDog, just the points I was going to make myself.

Well, except that WolfGuard are Elites and not HQ.

Same way that Space Wolves don't bother with the concept of "Terminators" and "Assault Terminators" - you're in the Wolf Guard or you aren't. Want to wander around with an Assault Cannon and a Lightning Claw? Fine.

And if you really want to rub it in, why not take your Venerable Dreadnought as a HQ choice?

LoneSniperSG
30-09-2007, 07:07
Thanks CrewDog, just the points I was going to make myself.

Well, except that WolfGuard are Elites and not HQ.

Same way that Space Wolves don't bother with the concept of "Terminators" adnd "Assault Terminators" - you're in the Wolf Guard or you aren't. Want to wander around with an Assault Cannon and a Lightning Claw? Fine.

And if you really want to rub it in, why not take your Venerable Dreadnought as a HQ choice?

Yes. Ven Dreads are a must with a Wolves army, for that first turn re-roll. And they can take a retinue. Imagine a Dread backed up directly by terms.

Son_Of_A_Horus
30-09-2007, 10:00
What is so wrong with the current Space Wolves codex that you think you need another one already? I had to use a copy of White Dwarf as a supplement for my Wolves till what we have now came out.

As I said in the original post, my MATE is pulling out his hair, I'm all about DA when it comes to Loyalists. Furthermore, the current SW book has been out for just shy of 10 years. My local still has loads of it on the shelf, along with the SW battleforce. They haven't sold any in 2 years...time for an update...

The_Outsider
30-09-2007, 14:15
Still doesn't mean they are a poor army.

Overall they are more solid than the current SM codex - well, unless you like to power game or abuse said codex.

Captain Micha
30-09-2007, 14:21
I think it will be next year after demons... why? no word about what the 3rd codex is next year (allegedly De... but its gw.. they can't help themselves... they need to release marines at least once a year to get their fix. ) or it might might might be necrons.

It will either be some smurf, that we've never seen before, or a space puppy before probably before Dark Eldar... So I'd be looking for your space puppies next year

CrewDog
30-09-2007, 16:51
Well, except that WolfGuard are Elites and not HQ.





Please forgive my mistype..... I was under the influence of a certain un-named beverage at the time of writing. http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d59/crewdog9023/anim_beer.gif

Bestial Fury
30-09-2007, 17:31
Paying more for jump Marines reflects the Space Wolves reluctance to use said jump packs. They loath technology such as this and would rather fight with both feet on the ground.... same reason they won't teleport into combat.


That newly introduced fluff from 3rd Ed. is a load of hog jaws, and I hope they change it.
Will gladly charge a bloodthirster on foot but worried about jump packs if they charge a mob of grots.:rolleyes:

victorpofa
30-09-2007, 18:14
That newly introduced fluff from 3rd Ed. is a load of ******** and I hope the change it. Will gladly charge a bloodthirster on foot but worried about jump packs if they charge a mob of grots.:rolleyes:

I can't agree more. I understand that in 2nd edition jump pack Blood Claws were a staple so in 3rd edition they made that bit of bull about fighting on foot (and ignoring the fact that Land Speeders fly, apparently), and made them horribly overpriced. Big difference between having your atoms scattered by a 10K year old machine ala teleportation, and using a jump pack that has proven reliable for millenia.

I agree the current codex is solid, but I would like to be able to use jump troops and terminators without being penalized for it. All they would need to do is make the jump packs the same price as vanilla marines, and include the storm bolter and power fist with the cost of terminator armor making the package the same cost as a vanilla termie. Heavy and alternate weapons would, of course, cost more. Those changes could be FAQed if GW did those anymore. Blood Claws are not even as effective as vanilla assault marines overall. The extra charge attack is great, but they have the same WS and BS as a Guardsman.

Some of us are also hoping for some of the 13th company to be integrated into the next Space Wolf Codex. :evilgrin:


And they can take a retinue. Imagine a Dread backed up directly by terms.

No, they can't. You can only give a Wolf Guard Bodyguard to HQs that are allowed to have a bodyguard, and the Ven Dread does not list that as an option. Every other HQ specifically lists a Wolf Guard Bodyguard in their codex entry. If you could give them a bodyguard that would be more than awesome :D

UncleCrazy
30-09-2007, 18:25
All I have to say is that I had to shelf my SWs because I was winning too much. I have somewhere in the range of 80% win record with them. Over all they might be a little too strong, but I am not sure in what way. I play normal SW straight for the codex.
Counter Assualt is one of the best skills in the game. Your HQs will always get in to combat even when people are trying to keep them out.
Old does not mean bad.

Son of Morkai
30-09-2007, 18:39
I'm still very happy with the Wolves Codex, and actually afraid of what 4th ed. will bring. Probably won't allow for Wolf Guard to carry an assault cannon and a lightning claw, take away our wolf tooth necklaces, nerf the wolf scouts (not that they don't need it), have the Imperial Guard steal back their Exterminators...

Of course, we might get everything we want with unrestricted jump packs and infiltrating grey hunters. Overall, I've actually been pleasantly surprised with the new codexes, and I have faith that GW won't ruin the Wolves.

The only problem is that I want to redo my Great Company, but I'm afraid of making models that wouldn't be allowable or useful with a new codex. I guess that's why I play multiple armies. ;)

WLBjork
30-09-2007, 19:08
A Wolf Guard Terminator should always be more expensive than his Space Marine counter part, due to his benefiting from the Acute Senses, Counter Attack and No Matter the Odds special rules.

The only thing Wolf Guard have lost since the Codex was writen is - at least, for the Terminators - is True Grit.

However, add in the Space Wolve's other shiny toys available to the Wolf Guard and they become a bargain. Mine never leave home without their Rune Charms, Wolf Pelts and Wolf Tooth Necklaces. Enough points left and how about upgrading that Assault Cannon to Master-Crafted?

LoneSniperSG
30-09-2007, 19:37
No, they can't. You can only give a Wolf Guard Bodyguard to HQs that are allowed to have a bodyguard, and the Ven Dread does not list that as an option. Every other HQ specifically lists a Wolf Guard Bodyguard in their codex entry. If you could give them a bodyguard that would be more than awesome :D

No. I was looking right at the Dread entry when I made that post. So either they typed it wrong, or I misinterpreted, and they call the entire army a retinue.

"Leader: In exceptional circumstances A Venerable Dreadnought can lead a Space Wolves retinue into battle. To represent this, the Dreadnought can either count as an HQ or as an Elites unit."

The Dark One
30-09-2007, 21:04
My local still has loads of it on the shelf, along with the SW battleforce. They haven't sold any in 2 years...time for an update...

i'm sorry but thats not true
they have run out of codexis (i bought the last one) and i bought a battle force about 2 mounths ago

hello by the way, i'm right here (was i really that hard to find)

BDJV
30-09-2007, 21:26
I can't agree more. I understand that in 2nd edition jump pack Blood Claws were a staple so in 3rd edition they made that bit of bull about fighting on foot (and ignoring the fact that Land Speeders fly, apparently), and made them horribly overpriced. Big difference between having your atoms scattered by a 10K year old machine ala teleportation, and using a jump pack that has proven reliable for millenia.

I agree the current codex is solid, but I would like to be able to use jump troops and terminators without being penalized for it. All they would need to do is make the jump packs the same price as vanilla marines, and include the storm bolter and power fist with the cost of terminator armor making the package the same cost as a vanilla termie. Heavy and alternate weapons would, of course, cost more. Those changes could be FAQed if GW did those anymore. Blood Claws are not even as effective as vanilla assault marines overall. The extra charge attack is great, but they have the same WS and BS as a Guardsman.
Ain't that the truth! :D I really hope with all of the 2nd ed feel the new codecies have we get some of the original flavor back from the outstanding 2nd ed SW codex.

Blood Claws with the second edition stat line would be fantastic.

Some of us are also hoping for some of the 13th company to be integrated into the next Space Wolf Codex. :evilgrin:
13th company is a great list, here's hoping it isn't gone for good.

WLBjork
30-09-2007, 23:48
No. I was looking right at the Dread entry when I made that post. So either they typed it wrong, or I misinterpreted, and they call the entire army a retinue.

"Leader: In exceptional circumstances A Venerable Dreadnought can lead a Space Wolves retinue into battle. To represent this, the Dreadnought can either count as an HQ or as an Elites unit."

Go to the first page of the HQ section - it explains retinues (Space Wolf style) there, above the Wolf Lord entry (basically, every 750pts is a SW retinue).

Characters need the Wolf Guard Bodyguard rule to get Wolf Guard Bodyguard.

Glabro
01-10-2007, 01:57
Long Fangs donīt really work.
Characters are substandard.
Grey Hunters might be a a point overpriced in the new system, when they have bolters (why pay for a true grit-bolter in the days of the Chaos Marines)
This in addition to whatever else was mentioned, plus the fact that it doesnīt really make sense to collect a force based on a still relatively soon-to-be-obsolete codex.

The_Outsider
01-10-2007, 02:23
Long Fangs donīt really work.

They do if used right, but they aren't meant to stand toe to toe with devastators.



Characters are substandard.

Vs non named characters SW HQ's come out superior point for point. remember though, SW HQ's are aimed at direct assaults far more than their SM counterparts.



Grey Hunters might be a a point overpriced in the new system, when they have bolters (why pay for a true grit-bolter in the days of the Chaos Marines)
This in addition to whatever else was mentioned

Grey hunters however are still superior to most troops even with their obscene amount of special rules factored in.

,
plus the fact that it doesnīt really make sense to collect a force based on a still relatively soon-to-be-obsolete codex.

If by soon you mean guesstimated to me 09-10

Lionsbane
01-10-2007, 05:39
They do if used right, but they aren't meant to stand toe to toe with devastators.

Pray tell how do you keep them alive? Sure they are truely effective while they live. Split fire and all that. But they are 50pts a piece average for single wound guys with power armor. If you can find a way to use them without return fire you are amazing. Against any decent opponent though they are simply too expensive not to kill asap.


Vs non named characters SW HQ's come out superior point for point. remember though, SW HQ's are aimed at direct assaults far more than their SM counterparts.

But they arn't any better at Direct assaults than their SM Counterparts. Added to that they don't get free wargear or leader skills.


Grey hunters however are still superior to most troops even with their obscene amount of special rules factored in.

Agreed. Almost enough to make up for the lacking in other areas of the army. Not quite, because we pay premium points for those added skills. Though I disagree on the obscene number of Special rules. Bolter,Bolt Pistol, CCW is flat better than True Grit, incurres no special rules, and is 99percent likely to be how Grey Hunters are equipped in the next Codex. Acute Senses is a minor rule that is rarely used. Which leaves two rules, Counter attack, and No Matter the Odds. Only one of these is a Space Wolf Rule now. The other can be taken by any Space Marine force. Hardly an obscene amount of special rules, or have you not read Codex Space Marines.

Space Wolves are still very fun to play. But they can hardly count as one of the better Codexes out there at this point.

All of that being said, I think I'd rather keep the current Codex than suffer with something made by the same studio that made the current Dark Angels or Chaos trash. (though C:Orks looks really good).

Glabro
01-10-2007, 11:11
Oh, and what about the fact that they still pay the old points for the Rhino and the Drop Pod, which, of course, are mandatory (I donīt know what that guy who spoke about 15 Blood Claws was smoking....how do you transport them?).

And will the points costs be turned around in the new īdex? Of course. So which will you take NOW?

Itīs not all bad, of course. Venerable Dreadnoughts and Scouts are good. And naturally, the Grey Hunters, even with their price and obsolete special rule.

victorpofa
01-10-2007, 11:41
Bolter,Bolt Pistol, CCW is flat better than True Grit, incurres no special rules, and is 99percent likely to be how Grey Hunters are equipped in the next Codex.

I am feverently hoping this is how Grey Hunters are equipped standard plus grenades just like the new CSM. Blood Claws can stay BP and CCW since they are assault marines, but any model that has True Grit in the current codex should have the same loadout as Chaos, but I will be happy if Grey Hunters have it, at least. That way you won't see so many Blood Claws in Space Wolf armies. The Grey Hunters will be the majority of the troops like they are supposed to.

The Dark One
01-10-2007, 12:03
Oh, and what about the fact that they still pay the old points for the Rhino and the Drop Pod, which, of course, are mandatory (I donīt know what that guy who spoke about 15 Blood Claws was smoking....how do you transport them?).


what are you talking about rhinos and drop pods are not mandatory. i haven't used a single transort yet with my space wolfs and i've won more than i lost
answer your question a land raider crusader can transport 15 blood claws

Son_Of_A_Horus
01-10-2007, 12:57
i'm sorry but thats not true
they have run out of codexis (i bought the last one) and i bought a battle force about 2 mounths ago

hello by the way, i'm right here (was i really that hard to find)

Ok, allow me to correct that, I have never seen anyone buy them...LOL...and I practically live there (you can't deny that)

Glabro
01-10-2007, 17:23
what are you talking about rhinos and drop pods are not mandatory. i haven't used a single transort yet with my space wolfs and i've won more than i lost
answer your question a land raider crusader can transport 15 blood claws

Well, I suppose that depends entirely upon your army and your enemies.

Very true about the Crusader, though.

Son_Of_A_Horus
01-10-2007, 18:42
Well, I suppose that depends entirely upon your army and your enemies.

Very true about the Crusader, though.

Having played TheDarkOne a couple of times, I can tell you that SW don't need transport. It is rather scary what those space puppies are capable of.

Glabro
01-10-2007, 21:58
So, you footslog them to fight shooty marines?

WLBjork
01-10-2007, 23:49
Hah, Mr Blackmane was very angry with me one battle (way back in 3rd edn). His transport got destroyed in the first turn. By the time he managed to reach the enemy, they had all been wiped out by massed Grey Hunters and Blood Claws.

Orc Mage
02-10-2007, 00:01
Personally I think that the SW Codex is one of the best in the game, although I most confess that my puppies are 13th company and play a very different game, with some great twists.

To answer a prvious point.

Long Fangs are an awesome unit, they force the opponent to choose between going after them or the advancing units, anything that gives your attack squads the opportunity to get closer is points well spent.

Alternatively they can be ignored and really hurt the enemy.

Of course in 13th you also get the Runepriest and a LF onit of 4 Meltas :)

Lionsbane
02-10-2007, 01:42
13th Co. and Space Wolves are completely different armies. They share a similar look and background. But do not operate the same. Most people will agree 13th company is a bit over the top good.

Most armies have enough firepower to take care of 5man Space Marine units and still tackle other targets... Especially 250pt 5man Space Marine units.

Gating melta Long Fangs are another story all together. Or Long Fangs with an army of Scouting Elites in front of it.

The_Outsider
02-10-2007, 02:38
Wulfen = scouts + fleet.

13th co aren't a balanced army, in a lot of the standard missions they verge on underpowered, but play raid and battle missions etc and they can be pretty unstoppable.

Glabro
03-10-2007, 00:51
Not to mention SCOUTING Long Fangs with an army of scouting elites in front of them :)

The_Outsider
03-10-2007, 01:00
Long fangs are meh 13th company wise, they aren't numerous enough to be reliable armed with meltas.

They are only worth iy kept as cheap as possible with the scout move only to help them redeploy.

From Shadows
03-10-2007, 01:16
Long fangs are meh 13th company wise, they aren't numerous enough to be reliable armed with meltas.

They are only worth iy kept as cheap as possible with the scout move only to help them redeploy.

I have had some success using fangs with 4 melta guns and gate them around with the rune priest for tank busting (again i say SOME success.)

BDJV
03-10-2007, 07:51
Long Fangs definitely need a buff. Nothing to drastic but something that'll make gamers use them again.

The_Outsider
03-10-2007, 14:36
All long fangs need really is a 6 strong squad size limit (so it ties in with the minimum size of the previous pack is the maximum squad size for them).

I.e grey hunters are yougner than LF, they have a minimum squad size of 6.

Long fangs are older and have maximum squad size of 6.

Also the fire control rule needs to have its point built into the unit, not just solely on the pack leader - though the effect can remain the same.

Thylacine
03-10-2007, 16:56
I spoke with a friend who is a store manager and who has just had the brief on what is coming in the next 12 months. SW's were not on the list, unless they turn up in late 08, expect to see the codex in 09. Still this may not be a bad thing as we may keep it in the format it is now with an armoury rather than the so called new improved version that is being forced on players.

Thylcine.

Son_Of_A_Horus
07-10-2007, 02:33
Still this may not be a bad thing as we may keep it in the format it is now with an armoury rather than the so called new improved version that is being forced on players.

Thylcine.

The new look is fairer. No-one wants to play beardy cheese

Son of Russ
04-11-2007, 18:45
Frankly, I'd like a new Dex for my Wolves that returns the original Fluff and gives me Bjorn and Njal back. All the other SM armies have their Psyker but they took mine away. I'd like all the cool little bits of 2nd ed reinstated. And the Wolves were originally assault specialist but that was given to the Sons of Baal. Never liked that.

There is no denying they are effective but I would like a proper update. Is that a bad thing? I'm not sure.

Spawn033184
05-11-2007, 13:58
You know it's just nice to see this many people that play space wolves, because it was my starter army and i refuse to play any other and yes i have to admit my ven dreadnought will kick any other SM factions Ven dread in the sarcophagase and what do you mean by ragnar, ulrik and grimnar being cheap? there unit cost, or how tough they are?

Thylacine
05-11-2007, 14:28
Spawn033184

I attended a tournament down here last week and there were only two SW players, thats out of sixty two. Unfortunately not that many are playing SW's these days, they are too hard to win with. Looking at the tournament winners the winning armies are Eldar, Chaos, Vanilla marines and Tau.

Space Wolves were the first and my only army, (add a few titans) I just can't see the point of buying anything else, Wolves work it is just a struggle to make them work well against the new lists/races.

:chrome:Thylacine:chrome:

WolfScout
20-11-2007, 10:26
I spoke with a friend who is a store manager and who has just had the brief on what is coming in the next 12 months. SW's were not on the list, unless they turn up in late 08, expect to see the codex in 09. Still this may not be a bad thing as we may keep it in the format it is now with an armoury rather than the so called new improved version that is being forced on players.

Thylcine.


I too have heard the late '08 - early '09 estimate from a GW manager. At least there's a time line, but we are WAAAYY over due for a new dex. Especially considering, if the rumors are TRUE, we will be 2 editions behind the main game by summer. (ie 3rd ed Dex /5th ed rules)

Follower of Zork
20-11-2007, 12:29
I have been told by my boyfriend who is very good with this sort of thing that Space Wolves are out next year

Chaplain Dionitas
20-11-2007, 16:17
Never had any problem with my SW. Although I would like to see GH get bolter, bolt pistol and ccw though. I think Blood claws need a little beefing up as well. I mean you'd be an idiot to try and assault into a squad of death guard with 15 Blood Claws. Think about.

Wolflord Havoc
22-11-2007, 16:38
Never had any problem with my SW. Although I would like to see GH get bolter, bolt pistol and ccw though. I think Blood claws need a little beefing up as well. I mean you'd be an idiot to try and assault into a squad of death guard with 15 Blood Claws. Think about.

Agreed I still love my SWs - as for needing to be an idiot to charge 15 blood Claws into a squad of Death Guard - I don't really see the problem (quickly does the math - 48 S4 attacks and 12 S8 Power Fist attacks on the charge with the Pups going first) as thats probably 7 dead Death Guard and 3 dead Blood Claws.

Hell I'd charge anything with my Blood Claws. :evilgrin: