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mistformsquirrel
30-09-2007, 00:31
So I've had some thoughts rolling around in my rattletrap of a brain; and I was wondering what Warseer thought.

Ya see... the Necron threat is very new insofar as the Imperium is aware of it; yet obviously, to survive, they can and have fought them off at times.

So I have several questions, all related to Imperial forces against Necrons:

Firstly - How much do they actually know about what they are fighting?

I divide it up into three categories - Imperial Guard, Space Marines, and Inquisition - how much do each of them know what exactly they are facing? Do they have any idea of just how ancient and powerful the Necrons really are? How great a threat they are?

Secondly - Related to the first, how does each of those Imperial forces deal with Necrons in the field? Are there any special tactics that may have been devised? Any vulnerabilities that would be exploited?

Finally - What reaction do you think a Guardsman would have to fighting Necrons? What about a Marine? An Inquisitor?

Obviously they're going to vary greatly by individual too; but I'm talking what you personally would expect, for such an unusual threat.

This is just a curiousity on my part really, I've no answers to any of these questions >.< and I don't know that there are necessarily any real sources on them either that I've seen. So thats why I'm asking, what do you think?

elusiveintrovert
30-09-2007, 01:10
I would say that the inquisition knows the most of the three groups, which is still probably not much, while the average guardsman knows nothing. As far as what is effective against them, I belive that I read somewhere that an inquisitor commented that plasma seemed to be effective. Also there was a short story, can't remember where I read it but its basically about an inquisitor or commisar who's interogating a guardsman who fought during a necron attack. He was saying that the weaponry that the guard were using were ineffective and he ended up falling into a hole and stayed there untill he couldn't hear anymore fighting. When he crawled out of the hole all signs of the attackers were gone. There were also no guardsmen left, dead or otherwise. He was executed for cowardice.

Khaine's Messenger
30-09-2007, 07:41
Do they have any idea of just how ancient and powerful the Necrons really are? How great a threat they are?

The Inquisition knows about them to the extent that they have posted Deathwatch Kill Teams in scattered areas around the galaxy to stand sentinel over various tomb worlds, and some Inquisitors have come into the possession of various bits of ancient lore (obviously it's not accurate in any technical sense). Indeed, the Necrons' remains may have been those of the ancient civilization that so preoccupied the Inquisition during the lead-up to the Age of Apostasy, leading to the absence of the "stabilizing influence" of the Inquisitorial Representative on the High Lords and all the ensuing chaos.

I imagine that Space Marine chapters would know about them primarily through the cross-pollination of knowledge in Deathwatch Kill teams or by direct confrontation.

The higher echelons of Guard Command likely know of the Necrons at least by way of reference...Ciaphis Cain comments on things like "if only we had known..." with respect to the threat posed by the Necrons in the memoirs penned in the first century of M42, but that may be Cain commenting from his position as a well-respected ranking member of the Commissariat at the time, not from his days of field-postings (which are the main topic of the novels).


how does each of those Imperial forces deal with Necrons in the field?

High energy, high explosive, high penetration, heavy ordinance. In the sense of specialized maneuvers, I don't think so, although the Necron codex suggests that people can figure these sorts of things out after a while.


What reaction do you think a Guardsman would have to fighting Necrons? What about a Marine? An Inquisitor?

A Necron assault, fluff-wise, can be as horrible and disturbing as being hit by a wave of Chaos cultists and daemons, really. "They came out of the frickin' walls, man!" Unless you're aiming at a warrior-heavy force, it's going to be fast and pretty much be a charnel-house sort of situation. At that point, it might not matter who the Necrons are fighting.

Ktotwf
30-09-2007, 08:09
Essentially, Ciaphas Cain, a man who saw every conceivable enemy that the Imperium faced, saw the Necrons as both the greatest threat and the scariest enemy.

Tehkonrad
30-09-2007, 09:57
I agree with Ktotwf he is very smart

ctsteel
30-09-2007, 10:44
I'd suggest adding the AdMech to the list of factions to discuss also - their explorator teams are obsessed with finding necron tech, and they aren't overly caring and sharing types with the other factions. They would have learned things (and tactics) that they wouldn't have passed on.

LexxBomb
30-09-2007, 11:26
well the mechanicus has known for all of it existence and have been secretly fighting a civil war about it.

what happened to the idea that the iron first were going to turn traitor and ally with C'tan... i remember hearing rumours about a world campaign

Iracundus
30-09-2007, 14:01
It all stems from the Iron Hands quote on p. 2 of the Necron Codex and then fan speculation went wild. Wild theories repeated often enough were taken to be rumors or facts.

Chilltouch
30-09-2007, 14:09
1.
IG - What the hell is that?!
SM - We've been informed about these things, let's take 'em out.
INQ - Been there, done that. *BLAM*

2.
IG - Blast it until it falls down!
SM - Blast it until it can no longer get back up!
INQ - Use special equipment to obliterate it completely!

3.
IG - Oh crap, what is that?! SHOOT, SHOOT, SHOOT!
SM - Another enemy of the Imperium shall fall! Attack!
INQ - Kill it, trace its phase-out back to its tomb and wipe the whole place out.

That generally seems what the various different factions would do.

Cherubael
30-09-2007, 14:56
The Adeptus Mechanicus appear to know a great deal about the Necron threat, as shown by the novel Dark Apostle, going as far as to heavily terraform a world to cover up a Necron tomb complex. Which would imply they have a decent idea of the level of threat they pose.

There are also rumours of the Mechanicus secretly worshipping a C'tan on Mars, heavily implied by the Necron Codex.

Of the various factions in the Imperium, the Mechanicus have the best idea of the threat, and of what the Necrons truly are.

Iracundus
30-09-2007, 15:00
There is also the little bit about Magos Egal, the character from Andy Chambers' short story 'Deus Ex Mechanicus', mentioned in the Necron Codex. For those that have read the story, they would know that the Magos is really a disguise and that it is really the Deceiver. (Technically, at the time the story was written which was before the Necron Codex was written, it was just a special Necron but its mannerisms and behavior is clearly thematically linked with being the same as that of the future Deceiver)

Mechanicus
30-09-2007, 15:38
On the subject of Magos Reston Egal: does anyone know what RES ton egal means? It's French for "LMBO your equal" according to Google language tools, LMBO apparently meaning a large management buy-out. Considering the Deceiver's words in the Necron Codex short story with the Callidus ("Your High Lords are too soft. That will have to change")... ;)

Ah, the conspiracies... :D

Lord Damocles
30-09-2007, 15:44
Well the bit of fluff on Necron fleets at the back of the Codex shows that the Imperial navy (if not the Guard) knows enough about the Necrons to recommend Naval Defence Troopers be equiped with heavy bolters instead of shotguns when facing them in boarding actions.

El_Machinae
30-09-2007, 15:59
I think the IG is too big to have a generic opinion. It should really be broken down between generals who've heard of them (and have strategies designed) and generals who've never heard of them.

mistformsquirrel
30-09-2007, 16:31
Well the bit of fluff on Necron fleets at the back of the Codex shows that the Imperial navy (if not the Guard) knows enough about the Necrons to recommend Naval Defence Troopers be equiped with heavy bolters instead of shotguns when facing them in boarding actions.

Hmm... interesting...

I haven't read the Necron codex completely, I may have to give it another look! <o.O>

@El_Machinae - a good point there. Hmm...

An interesting thought too - how much knowledge about the Necrons are the =I= likely to try to suppress? Chaos we understand why; but the C'tan are something... well altogether very different. Then again, its the Inquisition... >.< hmm...

(Sorry, brain just kind of whirling with thoughts <x_x> Sometimes I think the grey matter has turned into a spawn on its own!)

WorLord
30-09-2007, 20:30
Just a thought - the inquisition would be relatively well informed about the necrons and how to deal with them - but only the Ordo Xenos. Just about all of the stories and background I've read about the Inquisition say that the various ordos and factions don't share information often, if at all.
The chances of anyone from Ordo Xenos actually sharing information from their area of expertise with someone from Malleus of Hereticus is slim at best.
Also, the ordos seem to stick to their areas of expertise exclusively:
Xenos - not an alien - don't care.
Malleus - not a daemon, don't care.
Hereticus - not a cult or uprising - don't care.

Chilltouch
30-09-2007, 20:58
Actually, the Ordos are very loose. Sure, if there's a Daemon infestation, Malleus will be informed. But if there's Hereticus in the area, they'd be called down to do their part.

Shiakou
30-09-2007, 21:43
Actually, the Ordos are very loose. Sure, if there's a Daemon infestation, Malleus will be informed. But if there's Hereticus in the area, they'd be called down to do their part.

It's pretty much unheard of to have a Daemon infestation without having Hereticus too; the former often follows the latter.

ctsteel
01-10-2007, 06:47
the eisenhorn/ravenor books show the lack of tight delineation between the inquisitors on general matters - they are both ordo xenos yet encounter heretics, witches and daemons as well. if something untoward crops up they will just deal with it as best they can, rather than calling off the chase and saying 'not my area, not my problem'. Inquisitors are (generally) too arrogant and self-important in their own goals to stop just because the threat doesn't fall into their normal purview. Though they might request assistance.

Damien 1427
01-10-2007, 07:51
On the subject of Magos Reston Egal: does anyone know what RES ton egal means? It's French for "LMBO your equal" according to Google language tools, LMBO apparently meaning a large management buy-out. Considering the Deceiver's words in the Necron Codex short story with the Callidus ("Your High Lords are too soft. That will have to change")... ;)

Ah, the conspiracies... :D

Oh ho ho ho, that's good. :evilgrin: Andy was a sneaky bugger, was he not?

LexxBomb
04-10-2007, 05:50
oh i miss the days when members of the ordo malleus where members of the inquisition and had to deal with anything (heretics and xeno) and malleus was a secret club (just like ordo hydra)