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Chaplain Mortez
30-09-2007, 08:05
There was a White Dwarf a few years back with a very interesting letter sent into "A Word in Your Ear." I haven't been able to find that White Dwarf, but I know it's lying about my house somewhere. Anyway, it has to do with self-proclaimed "Veterans" of the hobby and what is frequently referred to as "14-year-old, screaming noobs bogging up my store." The whole point of the letter was this: help them!

Personally, I've met more jerks who have been playing for a longer period of time than I have jerks who are new. I'm not naming names, but there is an attitude I've noticed around here that is really starting to bother me, mainly because it's more whining than the teenagers do, just coming from older mouths with better vocabularies that are no more mature than their counterparts.

It is unsporting to disrespect other players, even when not playing the game.

When I started the Games Workshop hobby, I will admit that I was one of those screaming, annoying, 14-year-olds who always asked "noob" questions. There were other guys my age, too, when I joined. I played a majority of my games against them. Right now, I'm the only one of them still in the hobby. This makes me angry because they were such great opponents! But to be honest, they left because they got intimidated. No one showed them any tactics or gave advice--they just boosted their egos and wailed on them. No one made them feel welcome. No one told them to stop "screaming" and instead refused to play them.

Those no-one's were people we whispered about. We whispered our admiration for them. They had unbelievable armies. They were amazing tacticians. They knew so much more background than we did and could share so many stories about the game's past. We never showed them this respect. We never told them how amazing we thought they were. They were too intimidating. I was the only one who figured out how to play games with them. I cheated--I went to tournaments where they were FORCED to play me.

Forced to talk to me. Forced to show me their armies. Forced to reveal all of their tactics and strategies. I learned about the game. Everything I did got better because I simply observed. Originally, I played generic marines. It was from a Space Wolves player that I learned I could play a different list. My Black Templar were born this way.

One day, one of those no-one's we respected that never talked to us, got assigned to play me at a tournament. He won the last one--perhaps the one before it. He was up there--this guy was and still is a great player and one of the best at our store. But something amazing happened. Something in my head clicked that day. I thought my moves out. I completed objectives.

I won.

The look on his face when we tallied up victory points. He couldn't believe it, I don't think. The last and only time before that I had played him, I was eaten alive. Nailed to the wall. My ass was handed to me. But for some reason, I surpassed him. Two months later, at our next 40k tournament, I get second place. First two months after that. Then first again. Finally, I had beaten those around me I whispered about with my buddies for two years. The pupil surpassed the master, if you will.

That guy I played, who I respected and feared, asked me for a game the following weekend after that first tournament. We had a blast. I can't remember what the points were, who won, or what armies were played, I just remember we had a great time. I had grown as a player. I didn't whine about things that beat me. I focused on the game.

So here's what I'm saying: these guys that are new, and young, they respect us that have been playing so much longer and know about the game. We need to help them. I never got any help--I had to learn on my own. I had the patience to do it, but no one else who started with me did. They quit. I've seen so many people lose interest in the game.

If these new guys are being loud, they respect you. Tell them to lower their voices. Trust me, it will work. If they ask you questions, answer them. If they are bothering you when you don't have time, it's okay to tell them you're busy. Explain that it's impolite to ignore your opponent during a game. Teach them gaming etiquette. If you summon up the courage to play a game with them, and notice problems in their list, sit down with them afterwards and help them write a new list. Help them make their purchases. Put your egos aside and point out their mistakes while you are gaming. If they make the same mistake twice, don't point it out and show them the hard way. The first time, it's really not their fault--this game is immense.

Overall, don't act like you're better than they are, because you're not. Just older or more experienced.

While I haven't been able to watch someone grow as a Warhammer player, I've seen it in other games. To be honest, it's rewarding when you take a new player under your wing. When you teach them the rules. Show them how things work--introduce strategies. Tell them all of your tactics. Then watch them pound the living snot out of some unsuspecting jerk in your gaming group. It's funny, really. And I've gone through what that guy went through at that tournament--I lost?

When that happens, you too have become a better player. When the points are counted, they don't lie. A loss is a loss. They may have sure enough exploited a mistake you made and it cost you the game. Realize this when it happens.

But thinking you are some special veteran is just unsporting and bad for the hobby. People have quit because of people like us. I'd rather play with those "n00bz" than no one at all. Truth is, they grow up. Get that through your head, remember this stupid little post, and don't be a jerk. Be the veteran you think you are and show you know the game--the golden rule is having fun.

Who knows? They might beat you some day.

vice
30-09-2007, 08:48
Amen brother!

Well said!

Adept
30-09-2007, 08:54
I agree entirely. It does drain the patience reserves, but is well worth the effort.

Having said that, our hobby is a haven for all sorts of socially dysfunctional misfits who, even as adults, are almost carbon copies of the Comic Book Guy from the simpsons. Some of our gaming peers love nothing better than stroking their ego by bashing the noobs, and will never have the required personality to help struggling gamers grow.

Crube
30-09-2007, 09:48
I agree.

I used to work for GW in store, and trying to encourage the 'N00bs' does get very tiring, and for a while after I left GW, I was incredibly jaded. Not just towards new players, but the hobby as a whole.

More an dmore, especially through Warseer, I feel good about trying to help new plaers - be it through an army list or pointers on their painting.

GW focus on getting new people involved - a discussion that has been had many imes before. But even if they changed their focus, there will still always be a need for new blood.

I think at times, everyone needs to take a step back and remember - you were a N00b once.

Xavier
30-09-2007, 11:33
I agree in principle, but not all 'noobs' want to learn from the more experienced hands, and the few times I have actually made an effort have largely been shown to be a waste of time. I've taken to not caring about them, (note that I don't frequent a GW store anymore, so my contact with them is minimal) but will help them if they ask.

My 'advice' however has moved on from 12-14 year olds and I am now giving advice to older people, some older than I, those who actually want to know how to play properly, those who actually know what common sense is.

Incidentally, the original posters story is frighteningly true. I used to be one of those noobs, as frightening as it were. And always tried to punch above my weight, always challenging people who were better than me and ignoring those I saw as beneath me. Though this brought up a slight problem, those who were above me filled the niche of tournament players, one I am now proud to be a part of.

I was told in no uncertain terms by almost all of them that before any of them played me I needed to actually do well at a GT. This by the way coming from former winners of conflict Scotland and a few GW managers. Well, I did what they said, I entered the GT as soon as I was 16, and have gone every single time ever since (fantasy...)

Long story short, I have recently become very good friends with most of these people, aside from one of the GW Managers, have played all those in question and have beat them, though this point should not be confused with boasting, since that achievement is shared by them in equal measure.

Oh and, better does mean your more experienced, that experience is what makes you better. Unless you mean in a general sense.

lanrak
30-09-2007, 16:29
Hi all.
Ill quote some notices from my indi gameing room if I may.

Age is NO guarentee of maturity!
(Only luck at surviving this long!)

War GAMES are suposed to be fun.
(Keep mental and psychological trama confined to real war!)

If you dont know ASK ME!!.
(If I dont know, Ill ask somone else!)

Politeness costs nothing, but is highly valued!

Communication NOT confrontation!

Who started making this Noob/vet distingtion?When I started back in 1988 there were just gamers of all ages an ability!
And the more experianced helped the less experianced.

GW used to be by gamers for gamers.They didnt make any distingtion between gamers as far as I can remember.
Mind you since GW has started to 'conciously target younger gamers,' I belive they are underestimating the intelegence of the potential long term gamer?
Or perhaps GW are aiming at inticeing young people en mass,some of whom will not be that suited to the GW hobby?

TTFN
lanrak.

Sauron90
30-09-2007, 17:44
This is the greatest topic I have ever seen on Warseer.

What your saying is so true.

I remember when I was 8 years old and started warhammer. I knew nothing and almost no English. The 15-18 years old at the local store was my heroes. They knew things they where the ultimate players. Just talking to them felt awsome. And you could brag to your friends about it. One night me and my brother got the chance to talk to one of them on our way home. It was one of the happiest moments of my life (at the time).

But the "heroes" talked to me and helped me understand things. But mostly I had to learn myself.

One day I got the chance to play one of them. And everyone went shocked.

WOW! Does he realy want to play with you? and so on.

Now 9 years later im one of the "heroes" to the 10 years old guys who enters the club. So instead of thinking.

bah noobs!

I talk to them, teach them rules and tactics tell them about the background. Listen to what they have to say. Answers there questions.

When I see them game I look and help with rules if they are uncertan. That has lead to young people learnig the game much faster. Than they would have. It feels good and certiant for me to help people.

iseeleadpeople
30-09-2007, 18:23
this is one of the better threads on here!

ive been gaming since 88 with the lure of the traitor legions in the realm of chaos slaves to darkness, started off with emperors children, oooh the pretty pastel colours! then went suddenly all black legion ( i think it was because i went goth at the time, hehe , am still goth:chrome:)

there was no noobs or vets in my day either but there were some awful cliques that put me off for about 3 years:eyebrows:

then i came back to the game with a vengence and the new Nids and the general atmosphere had changed

now ill admit im a collector and painter before gamer, as my track history normally presents , but with every good apponet it got better and my legion grew so did my other armies

with work ive moved around the country to different workshops, my favourite one has to be York ( hi to the guys there:D) and totally knacking a power gamers nids with my ultramarines , went to shake his hand and he went off in the huff! not good gaming

my own letdown is i tell every one i game who and what unit of mine they should go for! hehe big mouth eh?rolleyes:

but the new gamers need help and we should help them and some really are good players, any one in the newcastle upon tyne area up for a biiiig apoc game pm me!

Chaplain Mortez
01-10-2007, 02:37
Glad I'm not the only one who's gone through this experience. :D

On a further note, I've noticed in recent years that newer players (no matter the age) are very welcome at my store because a lot of fathers are bringing in their sons, or we get newer players that are fairly mature and follow the store rules (indoor voices and no trash talking, for instance).

I think that new players provide a wealth of new ideas and strategies to any gaming group. To ignore them is simply folly. There are cases where you will get new players who are just jerks, but for the most part people are just people. Age, race, sex, religion, or orientation really don't matter. They all feel the same things. That's why I have no problems with those middle-high school kids that come prancing through.

By not helping out those new to the hobby, we put the hobby at risk. I think that's probably the biggest reason GW has lost so much money. That increase of people during LotR gave current Warhammer players at the time "issues." While I have no statistics or anything like that (just pure speculation), I suspect that kids who would have stayed and enjoyed the hobby were scared off by a more "mature" crowd.

Crazy Harborc
01-10-2007, 02:55
Wargamers in general run the full length of ages. Most GW systems players start(ed) young. Many of them "move on" as they, well, grow up. Many who still play while in uni are doing so away from their old gaming haunts.

They too were likely once the screaming little kids bugging the veterans, the adults. You don't get to be a teen for all your life. It will go away. Wargaming is a very good life long hobby. GW's versions of wargames can be a lifetime thing too.

Wargaming is a hobby you can teach your children OR just play with your children while they are young. One day you just may teach your grandchildren how to play with little toy soldiers.:D

By the by......I was NEVER one of those screaming little kids. GW was NOT invented yet when I first learned about wargaming.:)

Finnigan2004
01-10-2007, 03:23
I agree with you Chaplain Mortez, we should all learn to respect younger gamers and bring them along. I think that too many people forget that gaming CAN BE FUN. It becomes about building egos by crushing people, which is poor sportsmanship. When a kid shows up with an all goblin army that he got from putting two battle of skull pass sets together (no fanatics, etc.)-- put away the bloodthirster (it's actually happened). Teach him to play and don't focus on annihilating him by turn three (O.K.-- confession time, I actually am a middle school teacher).

Remember too that there is no need to mock people younger and less experienced than you who come to a GW store. After all, we have plenty of 40k players to mock. O.K.... kidding, just kidding-- I have some eldar and blood angels too (it had to be said though).

Light of the Emperor
01-10-2007, 05:50
Agreed with everything!

I was tutored by so many people over the years. Hell, I'm a vet now and I still get taught new lessons. In a way, we are all still a "noob" at some level because we are always learning something new. It can be a new codex, new edition or new tactics...everyone has something to build on.

If I see a noob (of any age) really trying to learn the game, I will do my best to help out. Sometimes I even give them some models for their force much like I received from others when I first started.

Like it or not, noobs are the future of the game. If we teach them correctly and most importantly make them have FUN with the game, we'll all have a better time.

Osbad
01-10-2007, 09:26
I guess as someone who understands a particular ruleset inside and out, has played games with it since it was first released and has bought WD since issue 18, I could call myself a "vet", although frankly I'm not interested in using the term. There is simply a division between gamers who don't know the rules and those that do. Once you do know the rules you are simply on a learning continuum with no absolute markers, only relative ones.

Age isn't that important, maturity of attitude is. Frankly put, if a "n00b" shows a pleasant attitude and asks questions AND LISTENS TO THE ANSWERS I'll willingly discuss things with him/her. If a "n00b" shows a willingness to READ THE RULEBOOK and at least try to understand them then I am willing to help with that understanding and without trying to snidely insinuate my superiority simply because I'm further along the learning curve than them! Shortly put - if someone is friendly, I'll be friendly back. Shoot, I'll be friendly whatever! But I'm not going to hunt out n00bs to help as it takes effort for which I am likely to see little return. I don't particularly enjoy teaching people, I have no gift for it and I don't like doing it. But I'm willing to help out, just as I've been helped out in the past.

However, I have met a lot of youngsters (and for some reason, it feels like the trend is increasing in the electronic age) with no intention of reading anything, with the attention span of gnats, and a complete lack of manners. Those youngsters can go and just waste someone else's time: my "free" time is sparse and hard earned and no way am I wasting it on them!

Of course it is important not to stereotype all 13-year-olds as irrititating, just as it is important not to stereotype all 20+ year-olds as "vets" (many of them are as immature as the kids they believe themselves to be superior to).

Respect has to be earned in any culture, gaming no less than anywhere else. GW clearly have a financial incentive to encourage n00bs, so it is reasonable to expect their paid employees to put up with a bit more gyp than the rest of us. For the rest of us though, if the downside of finding ourselves disrespected and wasting our precious free time outweighs the upside of bringing on new talent, then there simply is no point to the exercise. Will "the hobby" die of vets don't find it worth the effort of bringing new talent? Possibly, but if so then it deserves to!

Jedi152
01-10-2007, 09:35
I've always wondered if i'm a 'Vet' or a 'noob'. I've been in the hobby a good 15 years, know most stuff about the fantasy background, know every miniature range inside out, played the majority of GW games, yet (for various reasons) i've played no 40k since second edition, and only about 10 games of fantasy in my gaming career.

'Noob' i guess. So respect me!

vice
01-10-2007, 10:11
I'm no vet, only been in the hobby for about 5 years, but some of my friends who are just starting are bugging me.

They started so they could play the game, so I get payed to paint their models. I'm ok with that, since I enjoy painting.

Alas, when they try to play the game, they show no interest in the rulebook, even though they often have one. One of my friends refuses to get their army book, saying he'll just use the little statlines in the rule book. Some of us have taught them the basics, expecting them to read the book. But they pay us no mind, just moving their troops around by hand lengths and rolling random dice...tis wearing...

Ah well. Persistance is the key, eh?

Osbad
01-10-2007, 10:14
Ah well. Persistance is the key, eh?

And a hefty dose of sulking... :)

Jedi152
01-10-2007, 10:17
Alas, when they try to play the game, they show no interest in the rulebook, even though they often have one. One of my friends refuses to get their army book, saying he'll just use the little statlines in the rule book. Some of us have taught them the basics, expecting them to read the book. But they pay us no mind, just moving their troops around by hand lengths and rolling random dice...tis wearing...
This was one of the problems i had. I was always trying to push WFB to my friends (a sort of gaming group), but they would constantly claim that WFB was boring and not hyper-detailed enough (they wanted to know why people couldn't improvise and throw rocks, stuff like that). They ended up getting fed up of it, and invented their own roleplay system, which i didn't enjoy as much.

And yes, I had the whole rigmarole of putting up with "I can't be bothered to read all that. Lets just say they hit on 4+ automatically wound".

Add to that the fact i'm worried about cliquey gaming clubs, and you have your reason why i've only played 10 times in 15 years.

Crazy Harborc
02-10-2007, 01:46
In my regular group of opponents there's one other old fart(older than me six months a year). When he first started (about 2 years before 7th edition) he was pointing out 6th edition rules that were different than 3, 4 or 5th editions. The same thing with 7th edition. He would catch minor (word) changes.......He didn't have 10 plus years of WHFB rules floating around in the head.

Now he's a vet and having senior moments too.:D So are the younger guys who are veterans of decades of GW's rules and several other sets of rules.;) The younger guys all are in their 50s and gaining fast.

Etienne de Beaugard
02-10-2007, 03:56
I've enjoyed reading the high-minded philosophies espoused in this thread and agree with most things already said, to a point. While the younger generations should be encouraged, one must also reserve time to enjoy one's hobby.

Let me preamble my statements. My GW gaming resume is far from illustrious. I was a social gamer, playing at local shops with friends. I've never entered a tourney. My tactics are OK, and my painting is mediocre and slow. That said, I've won a bit and helped more than my share of new players learn to wield their first army.

As a player who came to GW games post-college, I have always has a limited amount of time available for the hobby. An afternoon of gaming is likely the only one for that month. In this scenario, those few hours become precious.

When gaming, I seek a mild intellectual challenge, mixed with good company, little toy soldiers, and maybe a good beer. My chance of getting that from an older, more experience opponent is far better than with a younger one.

Even if a young opponent is mature, well mannered, and tactically gifted (I've met more than a few such young players) there is an inevitable disconnect in common experience resulting from the age gap. A player ten years my junior is not likely to remember the same music, movies or popular culture as myself. Common experience with employers, social acquaintances, etc. is likely missing. The beer if definitely out. All this adversely effects the good cheer and company which makes a game enjoyable.

I've only got a game a month. I'm going to do everything in my power to maximize my enjoyment, which may, regrettably, include refusing to play younger or newer players.

Fred_Scuttle
02-10-2007, 14:22
I've enjoyed reading the high-minded philosophies espoused in this thread and agree with most things already said, to a point. While the younger generations should be encouraged, one must also reserve time to enjoy one's hobby.

Let me preamble my statements. My GW gaming resume is far from illustrious. I was a social gamer, playing at local shops with friends. I've never entered a tourney. My tactics are OK, and my painting is mediocre and slow. That said, I've won a bit and helped more than my share of new players learn to wield their first army.

As a player who came to GW games post-college, I have always has a limited amount of time available for the hobby. An afternoon of gaming is likely the only one for that month. In this scenario, those few hours become precious.

When gaming, I seek a mild intellectual challenge, mixed with good company, little toy soldiers, and maybe a good beer. My chance of getting that from an older, more experience opponent is far better than with a younger one.

Even if a young opponent is mature, well mannered, and tactically gifted (I've met more than a few such young players) there is an inevitable disconnect in common experience resulting from the age gap. A player ten years my junior is not likely to remember the same music, movies or popular culture as myself. Common experience with employers, social acquaintances, etc. is likely missing. The beer if definitely out. All this adversely effects the good cheer and company which makes a game enjoyable.

I've only got a game a month. I'm going to do everything in my power to maximize my enjoyment, which may, regrettably, include refusing to play younger or newer players.


Exactly - almost to the letter - the way I play. Me and 2-3 good friends have used Fantasy and 40K as frameworks to spend time together. With marrage and children the goal of 'gaming' for a Saturday or Sunday afternoon is the excuse to get together and catch up on life - the universe and everything. Because of my small circle of players it's much much more important for the game to be fun and interesting opposed to a smash and bash one sidded event.

Bravo Etienne de Beaugard - you nailed it.

Fred

CaptainSenioris
02-10-2007, 14:49
Good Topic to bring up, well done. I remember the article too.

I've enjoyed getting a few folk into the hobby, it's nice to see them spread their wings.

'n00bs' need nurturing that's all, and the ones that are up on their high horse a good taking down a notch:evilgrin:

Chaplain Mortez
03-10-2007, 03:53
Exactly - almost to the letter - the way I play. Me and 2-3 good friends have used Fantasy and 40K as frameworks to spend time together. With marrage and children the goal of 'gaming' for a Saturday or Sunday afternoon is the excuse to get together and catch up on life - the universe and everything. Because of my small circle of players it's much much more important for the game to be fun and interesting opposed to a smash and bash one sidded event.

Bravo Etienne de Beaugard - you nailed it.

Fred

I think he brought up some good points, as well. While not married and nor do I have children, my store is about 45 minutes away by car (and I don't have one). There isn't a store around here (I'm up at school getting my undergraduate work done for computer science). That being said, I maybe get one game in once a month, if at that. What's worse is if I get to the store and can't find anyone to play (sometimes just having the luck of being the odd-man-out).

However, I am still a Warhammer junkie, and will play anyone I come across, really. I wish I had a small group of friends who would always play me, but the store has one-on-one pick-up games for the most part.

Back to the topic. If I do end up playing someone new, I really don't see it as a problem as long as both of us have fun. Sure, I might have to explain a few rules, help them a bit, not test out my army for the next tournament, but I get to play. For me, that's all that matters.

You both bring up some very valid points. I just get upset at those who would absolutely refuse to even consider helping someone new. By all means, I could get down to the shop and say: I don't want to waste my time with you. The problem is that I tend to hear a lot of that sort of thing on this forum. It would be nice if more people approached it from your direction--wanting to spend quality time with close friends.

Instead, it seems to be a lot of just being senile, old farts. :rolleyes:

Neodysseus
04-10-2007, 10:02
Very interesting thread. For all intensive purposes I prefer the label "rookie". Let me pose an extreme situation to any that would like to hear it as food for thought when sizing up the rookies.
I haven't played my first game yet, only watched in self-imposed silence(better to not speak and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt) at the local RT and poured over the books but I want to get underway with a Wood Elf army.
Now then, I'm 27 and trying to figure out how to juggle a full-time work schedule with full-time school (undecided between a BA in English Lit or Studio Art) as well as maintain my position as guitarist and primary songwriter in a working amateur prog band (and the others want to push THIS professionally), develop my writing in speculative fiction (read:fantasy and horror) and my art portfolio for whichever degree I decide on. Obviously I have no girlfriend, much less a wife or little Neo's and the only aquaintences or friends to speak of are either co-workers, classmates or bandmates. Haha, busy geeks are still geeks, and professional geeks will make the things other geeks consume.
Of course this only speaks to my situation, but I have a feeling it may not be entirely unique. Luckily I have a friend that's interested in starting up WFB also, so in time we can teach ourselves perhaps, but my $.02 is given here to say: have a care for the adult noob that doesn't care to approach you across the minefield of elitist vets and yattering little noobs. If he's like me, odds are he'll be a more humble, creative and quick pupil than the young 'uns and may just serve you a sound thrashing on the battlefield sooner as well; not to mention enjoying the big-kid playtime on the same intellectual and social level that you do. Cheers.;)

Fear is the mind killer
04-10-2007, 23:15
Get that through your head, remember this stupid little post, and don't be a jerk.
Remember it?! Say hello to the Favourites (40k folder)!

As soon as you start acting like you're better than other people, other people become better than you.

Chaplain Mortez
05-10-2007, 02:14
Very interesting thread. For all intensive purposes I prefer the label "rookie". Let me pose an extreme situation to any that would like to hear it as food for thought when sizing up the rookies.
I haven't played my first game yet, only watched in self-imposed silence(better to not speak and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt) at the local RT and poured over the books but I want to get underway with a Wood Elf army.
Now then, I'm 27 and trying to figure out how to juggle a full-time work schedule with full-time school (undecided between a BA in English Lit or Studio Art) as well as maintain my position as guitarist and primary songwriter in a working amateur prog band (and the others want to push THIS professionally), develop my writing in speculative fiction (read:fantasy and horror) and my art portfolio for whichever degree I decide on. Obviously I have no girlfriend, much less a wife or little Neo's and the only aquaintences or friends to speak of are either co-workers, classmates or bandmates. Haha, busy geeks are still geeks, and professional geeks will make the things other geeks consume.
Of course this only speaks to my situation, but I have a feeling it may not be entirely unique. Luckily I have a friend that's interested in starting up WFB also, so in time we can teach ourselves perhaps, but my $.02 is given here to say: have a care for the adult noob that doesn't care to approach you across the minefield of elitist vets and yattering little noobs. If he's like me, odds are he'll be a more humble, creative and quick pupil than the young 'uns and may just serve you a sound thrashing on the battlefield sooner as well; not to mention enjoying the big-kid playtime on the same intellectual and social level that you do. Cheers.;)

This is a good comment, as well. There are many who are new to the game who are adults. The reason I started this thread, however, is because there is an awful lot of negativity towards many new players, especially younger ones. Either way, adults need equal help in learning to play the game and help with getting into the hobby.

I guess the whole point is to not steer people away from the game with an elitist attitude--it's just bad for the hobby as a whole in the long run. Not to mention, it's also unsporting.

It costs nothing to be polite.

Crazy Harborc
05-10-2007, 03:45
IMHO, some of the young adult veterans as well as teenage veterans don't like being reminded of when they were the newbie little kiddies. Perhaps they enjoy being above that "behaviour" anymore.

I can speak for me......I got in on the first campaign that was held within our one and still only GW company store in my state. After these what 4/5 (years?) I know only one older GW systems wargamer(he's older 6 months a year).

I don't mind the young fantasy player(as a rule)....some of the young 40K players are okay. The ones that run around, yell and roar are a bit much. GDs in Chicago are a literal pain in/to my ears.

Any wayyyeee....after 40 plus years of gaming I fully understand that for me, winning, always being right about rules, grinding an opponent into the tabletop...those are not needed to have a good time. I avoid those kinds of opponents when I know them to be so.

More later....got to move on.

CaptScott
05-10-2007, 09:05
Nicely put Chaplain Mortez :D

Another way to help new players is to direct them to the online community where noobs and veterans are equally welcome, and everybody is more than willing to share their knowledge and wisdom!