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View Full Version : 19 years later and I finally get it about 40k!



Vic
30-09-2007, 15:16
Not a rant or a dig on GW, just a kudos for being clever with "old school" mythos. I never thought about it until someone posted a "joke" about the difference in SM armies on B&C.

The Blood Angels are vampires, and the Space Wolves are werewolves. I cant believe I never saw the similarities before. I know people will say that "GW cant come up with an original idea etc", but hear me out: they took an old theme and brought it up to a "futuristic" context. I think that was pretty clever of them.

The thing is, in all this time (since '88), I never took the time out to sit back and notice this LOL.

Call me Captain Obvious!

Anyone else with a similar "D'uh" moment?

TheOverlord
30-09-2007, 15:19
Space Marines are werewolves? How so? (call me Mr. D'uh)

leonmallett
30-09-2007, 15:20
I think he means Space Wolves.

Never thought about it myself before, though.

Vic
30-09-2007, 15:22
Space Marines are werewolves? How so? (call me Mr. D'uh)

Mr D'uh:
Thanks for the catch ;)

TheOverlord
30-09-2007, 15:23
Aha! Well ok that makes sense then.

Slaaneshi Slave
30-09-2007, 15:26
Which is why Space Wolves and Angels of Death are so popular with kids.

FateofChaos
30-09-2007, 15:28
That can only make a good conversion model, I wana see a red chapter master with bad ass fangs and guy in grayish armor with a hair issues. :)

PlasticFork
30-09-2007, 15:36
I'd realised that Space Wolves were meant to be werewolves, but I hadn't realised that the Blood Angels were meant to be vampires. I'd kinda considered DE to the be the closest to vampires..

I thought that Tau were a pretty original race. Well, they look original, as far as I can make out :P

Vic
30-09-2007, 15:37
Which is why Space Wolves and Angels of Death are so popular with kids.

Do the kids really know who Dracula and werewolves are though? I dont see many recent movies or slasher films using those mythos like it was in the 70s-mid 80s. I'm not counting Underworld as a real "vampire" movie (cool flick though and good sequel).

The_Outsider
30-09-2007, 15:38
I thought that Tau were a pretty original race. Well, they look original, as far as I can make out :P

I heard you like the animu gundman.

Vic
30-09-2007, 15:39
I'd realised that Space Wolves were meant to be werewolves, but I hadn't realised that the Blood Angels were meant to be vampires. I'd kinda considered DE to the be the closest to vampires..

I thought that Tau were a pretty original race. Well, they look original, as far as I can make out :P

Well, vampires are supposed to be vain, lovers of art, animalistic in combat etc. Seems like BA to me LOL.

Baneboss
30-09-2007, 15:40
So after 19 years you realised what 2 SM chapters images are... What about other things?

superknijn
30-09-2007, 15:43
Well Space Wolves are more like Norse Clanmen mixed with Bikers, with a flaw that causes werewolves looks and behavious in same (Wulfen).

Blood Angels are the more artistic of Marines, more cultured than most. They do have a flaw that causes madness, and have this extreme obsession with blood, that's very similar and obviously based on Vampirism.

It's a bit easy to simply state that Space Wolves = Werewolves and Blood Angels = Vampires, as they are obviously more than that.

Wyatt
30-09-2007, 15:44
Dark Angels always remind me of Necromancers, though I dunno if that fits in here.

Brother Gabriel
30-09-2007, 15:56
Dark Angels always remind me of Necromancers, though I dunno if that fits in here.

No it doesnt...
They are kind of monks going to war and have sworn a vow of silence.

TheOverlord
30-09-2007, 16:00
I always liked to think the Night Haunter is like Batman but far darker and without the compulsive hatred of guns and murder, like Batman pushed past the barriers of morality and sanity.

Who also dominated an entire sector just by being so bad ass he scared the population into submission. If that isn't cool I just don't know what is.

Vic
30-09-2007, 16:01
It's a bit easy to simply state that Space Wolves = Werewolves and Blood Angels = Vampires, as they are obviously more than that.

At their core though (which is the point of this post), they are simply werewolves and vampires "with a twist". I just like the twist GW put into it...

superknijn
30-09-2007, 16:29
Ofcourse they are, I just wanted to state that their not stereotypes, as people sometimes think they are. So yes, those chapters are indeed werewolves and vampires "with a twist". Great way of putting it, I must say.

Curis
30-09-2007, 16:38
Good lord! I've just realised this:

Necrons are robots!

sebster
30-09-2007, 17:36
Ofcourse they are, I just wanted to state that their not stereotypes, as people sometimes think they are. So yes, those chapters are indeed werewolves and vampires "with a twist". Great way of putting it, I must say.

That's pretty much how it works with GW. Take an archetype like vampires, werewolves, elves, orcs, unkillable robots, whatever, and make enough twists to make it fit the setting while still keeping enough of the original concept to retain whatever made the original appealing.

IJW
30-09-2007, 17:44
Necrons are robots!
Terminators, to be precise. ;)


Do the kids really know who Dracula and werewolves are though?
Buffy the Vampire Slayer? Blade 1-3 and tv series? You'd be hard-put these days not to know about werewolves and vampires.

EarlGrey
30-09-2007, 17:45
Space Wolves aren't just werewolves, but viking (or general "Norse themed", or something along those lines) werewolves!

What I like is the interesting mix of archetypes and spins on established themes.

superknijn
30-09-2007, 18:35
Drunk Viking Werewolves from Outer Space!

Would have been an awesome title for one of those horrid early-to-mid-20th-century science fiction 'films'.

Zazz
30-09-2007, 18:40
now all we need is a swamp monster, a mummy and a frankenstein and we got all the universal monsters


"Location: /b/"

I heard you like the animu gundman.
nope, just mudkips


I always liked to think the Night Haunter is like Batman but far darker and without the compulsive hatred of guns and murder, like Batman pushed past the barriers of morality and sanity.

so he's dark 80's batman?

Slaaneshi Slave
30-09-2007, 18:42
Chaos Spawn = Swamp Monster
Tomb Kings has Mummies, or Necron Lords are sort of similar. Both undead, both retained their intelligence etc... :p


Thats just a Frankenstein we're missing. ;p

Putty
30-09-2007, 18:50
i always felt that Space Wolves are just another manifestation of Dwarves.

SW uses runes, have alots of facial hair and like to melee (ok, ignore then gunline aspect)

hence i always refer SW as Space Dwarves.

xD

Vic
30-09-2007, 19:01
Space Wolves aren't just werewolves, but viking (or general "Norse themed", or something along those lines) werewolves!

What I like is the interesting mix of archetypes and spins on established themes.

I wiki'ed werewolves, and the norse or viking aspect is actually a part of the werewolf mythology, so GW didnt actually add that aspect. But it so fits in nicely with the 40k universe...

SigonWulf
30-09-2007, 19:01
Here are some similarities I've noticed.

Blood Angels - Vampires
Space Wolves - Werewolves
Black Templar - Crusaders from the Hundred Year War
Night Lords - Bats
Tyranids - Aliens
Tau - Your everyday aliens you find in sci-fi games, movies, and books.
Eldar - Elves
Necrons - Terminator meets zombies.
Nurgle - Zombies
Khorne - Berserkers from Final Fantasy
Thousand Sons - Egyptian's
Witch Hunters and Daemon Hunters - Spanish Inquisition.... what? Also the Nazi's as well, though that could be said for the entire Imperium.
Also the Imperial Guard look like their based off of certain movies. Such as Rambo.

And I want to say the Holy Roman Empire is in there somewhere, but I can't figure out where.

In short, I think every army is influenced by something.

Vic
30-09-2007, 19:03
Here are some similarities I've noticed.

Blood Angels - Vampires
Space Wolves - Werewolves
Black Templar - Crusaders from the Hundred Year War
Night Lords - Bats
Tyranids - Aliens
Tau - Your everyday aliens you find in sci-fi games, movies, and books.
Eldar - Elves
Necrons - Terminator meets zombies.
Nurgle - Zombies
Khorne - Berserkers from Final Fantasy
Thousand Sons - Egyptian's
Witch Hunters and Daemon Hunters - Spanish Inquisition.... what? Also the Nazi's as well, though that could be said for the entire Imperium.
Also the Imperial Guard look like their based off of certain movies. Such as Rambo.

And I want to say the Holy Roman Empire is in there somewhere, but I can't figure out where.

In short, I think every army is influenced by something.


I think thats what's made 40k/GW popular: take the familiar, and give it a new coat of paint. It works on different levels: adds to the 40k story, and gives a deeper "hook" to the player for teh army of their choosing.

SigonWulf
30-09-2007, 19:09
Yeah I really love their take on the things I've grown up with. I think GW really knows how to work their fluff into the game.

So far the only army I don't like that they've done is the Necrons. But thats only because they currently don't offer a lot of variety. I'm hoping this will be fixed in the next update. On the other hand the fluff for the Necrons is amazing.

Slaaneshi Slave
30-09-2007, 19:12
On the other hand the fluff for the Necrons is amazing.

I was going to comment on this, but I stopped myself. I will limit myself to asking you to take a look at the Necron timeline, and you'll soon see how crap the Necron fluff actually is.

/off topic

Gazak Blacktoof
30-09-2007, 19:23
take a look at the Necron timeline, and you'll soon see how crap the Necron fluff actually is.


Without taking this thread too far OT would you care to elaborate?

Drogmir
30-09-2007, 19:25
Well the 2nd Edition Ultramarines were clearly Roman inspired, with the Italian headset and all.

I can't seem to find a pic.

Slaaneshi Slave
30-09-2007, 19:28
Without taking this thread too far OT would you care to elaborate?

I'll PM you.

LoneSniperSG
30-09-2007, 19:29
That can only make a good conversion model, I wana see a red chapter master with bad ass fangs and guy in grayish armor with a hair issues. :)

pff. Fangs? Everyone knows the Wolves of Russ have the longest fangs. ;)

Col. Dash
30-09-2007, 19:52
BA used to be more vampiric, come on it has Mephiston who wont pursue the enemy but instead will stop and drink their blood, or at least he used to. If that doesnt shout vampirism I dont know what does.
Night Lords are actually based on Apocolypse Now(which was based on the book "In the Heart of Darkness"). The original fluff has it almost word for word. Conrad Kurze (Col. Kurtz), Martin sheen (M'Shen), same philosophy, same last words even.
There really isnt an original bone in the 40k universe. Even the Tau are just a Japanamation race based on Gundam or its precurser, Robotech.

Vic
30-09-2007, 20:05
Without taking this thread too far OT would you care to elaborate?

Actually, I was hoping people would include other aspects of 40k lore that have a basis in popular fiction/mythology. GW knows to use this to enrich their story. Any other angles we may have missed?

brettz123
30-09-2007, 20:12
Here are some similarities I've noticed.

Blood Angels - Vampires
Space Wolves - Werewolves
Black Templar - Crusaders from the Hundred Year War
Night Lords - Bats
Tyranids - Aliens
Tau - Your everyday aliens you find in sci-fi games, movies, and books.
Eldar - Elves
Necrons - Terminator meets zombies.
Nurgle - Zombies
Khorne - Berserkers from Final Fantasy
Thousand Sons - Egyptian's
Witch Hunters and Daemon Hunters - Spanish Inquisition.... what? Also the Nazi's as well, though that could be said for the entire Imperium.
Also the Imperial Guard look like their based off of certain movies. Such as Rambo.

And I want to say the Holy Roman Empire is in there somewhere, but I can't figure out where.

In short, I think every army is influenced by something.

I am pretty sure there was Khorne before there was final fantasy and I don't think that there were too many crusaders in the 100 years war either. Perhaps you are thinking of the crusades that mostly took place hundreds of years before the 100 years war????

brettz123
30-09-2007, 20:15
And I really don't why you guys call the space wolves werewolves? They are obviously based off of vikings with the wulfen being based off of berserkers who were sometimes thought to be able to take the shape of a wolf. But overall they are still based on vikings not werewolves.

mistformsquirrel
30-09-2007, 20:18
Well Space Wolves are more like Norse Clanmen mixed with Bikers, with a flaw that causes werewolves looks and behavious in same (Wulfen).

Blood Angels are the more artistic of Marines, more cultured than most. They do have a flaw that causes madness, and have this extreme obsession with blood, that's very similar and obviously based on Vampirism.

It's a bit easy to simply state that Space Wolves = Werewolves and Blood Angels = Vampires, as they are obviously more than that.

The better way to say it (imho)

"Space Marines are *effin metal*!" <. .>\,,/ *rocks out >.>*




... WHAT?

Sadly, I haven't had any "Duh" moments <;.;> I think its because I was introduced primarily over the internet, which means much of the fluff was RIGHT THERE for me to read, either on GW's website, fan web sites, or even Wikipedia. So everything was just... obvious. But that doesn't mean it would be to someone who read it bit by bit over the years; so thats in no way a jab!

I love 40k though, yeah, its got a ton of cliches, deus ex machina, and other stuff <,< But one of the things I LOVE about it, is that the entire universe is OVER THE TOP - in big bold letters.

I guess thats why I find it funny when people complain about "uber" characters <,< of COURSE they're uber! Look at the insanity of the galaxy <'x'> we have Avatars of *gods* walking around <,< we have Daemon Princes, we have *TITANS* for crying out loud!

<o_O> Actually I should rephrase my original statement:

Warhammer 40k is ****** metal! >.> *guitar solo*

Granted... cheese metal... but I loves me some cheese metal <.<

(10 points if anyone can name the hardest metal known to man)

mistformsquirrel
30-09-2007, 20:19
And I really don't why you guys call the space wolves werewolves? They are obviously based off of vikings with the wulfen being based off of berserkers who were sometimes thought to be able to take the shape of a wolf. But overall they are still based on vikings not werewolves.

Berserkers were thought to take on the form of bears actually >.>

The name "Berserk" comes from Ber sark, or something close to it, which basically amounts to "Bear shirt".

Vic
30-09-2007, 20:26
And I really don't why you guys call the space wolves werewolves? They are obviously based off of vikings with the wulfen being based off of berserkers who were sometimes thought to be able to take the shape of a wolf. But overall they are still based on vikings not werewolves.

Practice your wikifu and look up werewolf for a brief history on the idea of werewolves. Fits right in with the norsemen, which in turn fits in with werewolves.

brettz123
30-09-2007, 20:58
Berserkers were thought to take on the form of bears actually >.>

The name "Berserk" comes from Ber sark, or something close to it, which basically amounts to "Bear shirt".

And the ulfhednar were berserkers who wore wolf pelts into combat and thought to have the ability to turn into wolves..... so you would be correct and wrong all at the same time :) So the norse idea of werewolves comes from berserkers.


Practice your wikifu and look up werewolf for a brief history on the idea of werewolves. Fits right in with the norsemen, which in turn fits in with werewolves.

Uhhhh..... that is what I said. Reread post and you will see that I said the Space Wolves are based on the Norse. Which explains why they have the 13th company. However the Space Wolves are not based on werewolves as was stated in the original post. Maybe you should practice your readingfu ;)

FateofChaos
30-09-2007, 21:17
I'd realised that Space Wolves were meant to be werewolves, but I hadn't realised that the Blood Angels were meant to be vampires. I'd kinda considered DE to the be the closest to vampires..

I thought that Tau were a pretty original race. Well, they look original, as far as I can make out :P

Taus remind me of the Hindus, check it out. With the Cast, then with there jobs. You will find they will be very similar.

Vic
30-09-2007, 21:35
Nope, wrote what I meant: Space wolves = werewolves in space, Blood Angels = Vampires in space. Couldnt be more direct :D

Vic
30-09-2007, 21:36
And the original plastic Plaugue marines reminded me of Pigs in Space LOL

brettz123
30-09-2007, 21:50
Nope, wrote what I meant: Space wolves = werewolves in space, Blood Angels = Vampires in space. Couldnt be more direct :D

Ok but I still say vikings in space :)

lordbeefy
30-09-2007, 22:02
Yes, GW severly lack originality, and draw heavily on established myth, legend and folk tales for their concepts....but they do it so well.

Said slightly earlier, but my reason for picking Ultras is their obvious comparisons to ancient rome....if there are any doubters, just look at the Marneus Calgar Honour Gaurd, or the Aquila, or the banner standards etc etc.

Heard that DA's terrible secret might be a 'guy love' kinda thing...though this may have been more in the mickey-taking vein than an accurate assessment though.

Slaaneshi Slave
30-09-2007, 22:07
I can't think of ANY author who didn't steal wholesale from established fiction and legend.

Nostro
30-09-2007, 22:24
"Originality is the art of concealing your sources"
Ambrose Bierce

(d'oh, should've said it was mine :p)

Vic
30-09-2007, 22:46
"Originality is the art of concealing your sources"
Ambrose Bierce

(d'oh, should've said it was mine :p)


Im sure you meant to.

Im not one way or the other about GW's originality, just what they do with the source material. I think its a creative manipulation.

Brandir
30-09-2007, 22:58
Everything is copied in one form or another from the greatness that is Professor Tolkien :p

zealot!
30-09-2007, 23:02
maybe in another year or so you can take this new found critical thinking and apply it elsewhere! :D

Nostro
30-09-2007, 23:26
Im sure you meant to.

Im not one way or the other about GW's originality, just what they do with the source material. I think its a creative manipulation.

Ditto. They copy, but they acknowledge they do: when borrowing a story, they keep the names or slightly alter them and don't try to hide. But then again, and it was the meaning of my quote, who doensn't copy/get inspiration/get influenced by anything? Even childhood memories of whatever book/movie may seem to you original because you heard that in the hazy times (memorywise) of kindergarten?
And with that, they manipulate and fit the thing into the background and make something good of it, at least creative.


Everything is copied in one form or another from the greatness that is Professor Tolkien :p

You'd be surprised to discover the amount of things Tolkien borrowed from ancient norse or indian mythology :)

Imperialis_Dominatus
30-09-2007, 23:28
I was going to comment on this, but I stopped myself. I will limit myself to asking you to take a look at the Necron timeline, and you'll soon see how crap the Necron fluff actually is.

/off topic

Wasn't gonna say it so harshly, but I believe that the Necrons are a little too uber for their own good. I mean, they or the Old Ones are behind everything... but it doesn't matter because we're all doomed. We're all gonna die. No matter what the Star Gods will win. That's Necron fluff, pure and simple.

And don't ONE of you mention 'Nids, or I'll just pummel you with Emperor fanboyism till your head explodes.

Orks are OK though, they need a little sympathy, until their new 'Dex comes out. Then we'll all be DOOMED to a tide of green. Of course, it's good marketing.

Chaos and Evil
30-09-2007, 23:28
Did you know that Tyranids are space-dinosaurs?

And Eldar are space-elves?

Squats were space-dwarves, and Zoats were space-snots. :D

Zanzibarthefirst
30-09-2007, 23:34
http://masseffect.bioware.com/gallery/

Bottom left picture: tau????

Imperialis_Dominatus
30-09-2007, 23:34
Oh my God, this must mean that... Ogryns are Space Ogres? *gasp*

And Ratlings are space hobbits? *double gasp*

Wait.

*whispers*

Does this mean that Orks are... Space Orcs?

*whimper*

So much revalation!

And my 100th post.

Brandir
30-09-2007, 23:41
........You'd be surprised to discover the amount of things Tolkien borrowed from ancient norse or indian mythology :)

There was life before Tolkien :wtf:

You have just removed the one thing that I held true in life; He is all powerful, He is the originator of all mythologies within my little world :cries:

My first post was a bit flippant and with tongue firmly in cheek. Tolkien is a master of using parts from multiple mythologies and histories to develop a new mythology. GW do exactly the same. Of course, with the increase in copyrights and trademarks gaming companies need to be extremely careful of where they are receiving their 'inspiration'.

For example my first edition D&D books list a number of fantasy author as suggested further reading for inspiration; by D&D 3 there is no such list.

Brandir
30-09-2007, 23:45
......And Ratlings are space hobbits? *double gasp*.....

*triple gasp*

Mention of the word H****t can be dangerous; expect a 'cease and desist' letter from both the Tolkien Estate and Tolkien Enterprises. I also suspect GW Legal are discussing your post with the Mods here with a view of wiping post 100.

Shadowheart
30-09-2007, 23:53
The one that took me forever to get was Goff Orks. I felt especially dumb because I did get the Goffik Rokkerz before that.

Codex Imperialis (the background volume in the 2nd edition starter set), on page 19 for those interested, leaves no doubt whatsoever about the Blood Angel's vampiric theme.

The Ultramarines aren't strictly Roman in 'inspiration', but as I believe Jes Goodwin said, they draw from the classical era as a whole. So that includes the ancient Greeks as well.

So long as GW draws from history, mythology or even genre tropes, I'm fine with what they do. It's a viable technique, it allows them to get a much clearer, stronger image across with much less exposition. Throw in a few identifying features and we can fill in the blanks. It's not original, but it works.

Vic
01-10-2007, 00:26
Oh my God, this must mean that... Ogryns are Space Ogres? *gasp*

And Ratlings are space hobbits? *double gasp*

Wait.

*whispers*

Does this mean that Orks are... Space Orcs?

*whimper*

So much revalation!

And my 100th post.

So many words...so little substance

Vic
01-10-2007, 00:27
maybe in another year or so you can take this new found critical thinking and apply it elsewhere! :D


I'll apply it now and ignore your future posts :evilgrin:

Just kidding

Vic
01-10-2007, 00:29
Wasn't gonna say it so harshly, but I believe that the Necrons are a little too uber for their own good. I mean, they or the Old Ones are behind everything... but it doesn't matter because we're all doomed. We're all gonna die. No matter what the Star Gods will win. That's Necron fluff, pure and simple.

And don't ONE of you mention 'Nids, or I'll just pummel you with Emperor fanboyism till your head explodes.

Orks are OK though, they need a little sympathy, until their new 'Dex comes out. Then we'll all be DOOMED to a tide of green. Of course, it's good marketing.

Dont pick on the greenies. It's been almost 9 YEARS since they saw a decent codex. I hope this new one is a mix of "serious" orks and "comedic" orks from both 3rd and 2nd editions.

1972lt1
01-10-2007, 01:09
The better way to say it (imho)

"Space Marines are *effin metal*!" <. .>\,,/ *rocks out >.>*




... WHAT?

Sadly, I haven't had any "Duh" moments <;.;> I think its because I was introduced primarily over the internet, which means much of the fluff was RIGHT THERE for me to read, either on GW's website, fan web sites, or even Wikipedia. So everything was just... obvious. But that doesn't mean it would be to someone who read it bit by bit over the years; so thats in no way a jab!

I love 40k though, yeah, its got a ton of cliches, deus ex machina, and other stuff <,< But one of the things I LOVE about it, is that the entire universe is OVER THE TOP - in big bold letters.

I guess thats why I find it funny when people complain about "uber" characters <,< of COURSE they're uber! Look at the insanity of the galaxy <'x'> we have Avatars of *gods* walking around <,< we have Daemon Princes, we have *TITANS* for crying out loud!

<o_O> Actually I should rephrase my original statement:

Warhammer 40k is ****** metal! >.> *guitar solo*

Granted... cheese metal... but I loves me some cheese metal <.<

(10 points if anyone can name the hardest metal known to man)

the hardest metal is Tungsten Carbide

Imperialis_Dominatus
01-10-2007, 02:16
*triple gasp*

Mention of the word H****t can be dangerous; expect a 'cease and desist' letter from both the Tolkien Estate and Tolkien Enterprises. I also suspect GW Legal are discussing your post with the Mods here with a view of wiping post 100.

I dare them to try... just kidding, no WAIT! *splat*

Ow...


So many words...so little substance

And here's more. V


I'll apply it now and ignore your future posts :evilgrin:

Just kidding

Hey, I found a new strategy! JK


Dont pick on the greenies. It's been almost 9 YEARS since they saw a decent codex. I hope this new one is a mix of "serious" orks and "comedic" orks from both 3rd and 2nd editions.

Not picking on them, making a prediction. GW will make them seem like the universe's next doom. And it will likely focus on Ghazkgull and his Orks a lot. Which means there's gonna be a lot of Goff armies started. At least, I think that's his Klan.


the hardest metal is Tungsten Carbide

And Chuck Norris sprinkles it on his cereal.

SigonWulf
01-10-2007, 02:17
I'll PM you.

Mind if I get that PM also.

RavenMorpheus
01-10-2007, 02:21
Not a rant or a dig on GW, just a kudos for being clever with "old school" mythos. I never thought about it until someone posted a "joke" about the difference in SM armies on B&C.

The Blood Angels are vampires, and the Space Wolves are werewolves. I cant believe I never saw the similarities before. I know people will say that "GW cant come up with an original idea etc", but hear me out: they took an old theme and brought it up to a "futuristic" context. I think that was pretty clever of them.

The thing is, in all this time (since '88), I never took the time out to sit back and notice this LOL.

Call me Captain Obvious!

Anyone else with a similar "D'uh" moment?


Might take you another 19 years then to realise WFB is based on LotR :D ;)


I can't think of ANY author who didn't steal wholesale from established fiction and legend.

JK Rowling didn't. Oh no wait she did...

Squallish
01-10-2007, 03:10
I'm probably not alone on this one, but I'm pretty sure Tau are taken from the Protoss. Take away the Psychic stuff (since Eldar had it already) and you have the Tau.

Protoss:
http://homepage.mac.com/cheethorne/Starcraft/protossrcc.htm

Tau:
http://www.codevermillion.net/picturesjeff/alien/tau/ethereal.htm

The protoss have a Caste system as well... the similarities are staggering.

I'm not sure which came first, though pretty sure it was the 'Toss.

Slaaneshi Slave
01-10-2007, 03:18
the hardest metal is Tungsten Carbide

I very much doubt it. Wolfram is simply the hardest metal we know. A pitty we can't measure what is in a singularity, as that is where you will find your hardest metals. ;)

concretemonk
01-10-2007, 03:20
That can only make a good conversion model, I wana see a red chapter master with bad ass fangs and guy in grayish armor with a hair issues. :)

LOL look at the wulfen! :evilgrin:

brettz123
01-10-2007, 04:27
I would actually say that warhammer fantasy owes at least as much if not more to Michael Moorcock then to Tolkien. Actually warhammer isn't really for Tolkien like at all. But is a very decent rip off of the Eternal Champion novels.

sebster
01-10-2007, 05:17
I'm probably not alone on this one, but I'm pretty sure Tau are taken from the Protoss. Take away the Psychic stuff (since Eldar had it already) and you have the Tau.

Protoss:
http://homepage.mac.com/cheethorne/Starcraft/protossrcc.htm

Tau:
http://www.codevermillion.net/picturesjeff/alien/tau/ethereal.htm

The protoss have a Caste system as well... the similarities are staggering.

I'm not sure which came first, though pretty sure it was the 'Toss.

Tau did come after Protoss, but I don't think there's enough similarity between the two. Not when you can look at Gundam and other anime and see a lot more points of similarity.

It's generally considered Protoss draw a fair amount of their design from the Eldar.

But again, Blizzard took inspiration from a number of sources, but heavily from the Eldar. Not particularly original, but putting it all together as part of a really well made computer game, that's an original creation.


So long as GW draws from history, mythology or even genre tropes, I'm fine with what they do. It's a viable technique, it allows them to get a much clearer, stronger image across with much less exposition. Throw in a few identifying features and we can fill in the blanks. It's not original, but it works.

They take inspiration from all over the place, and blend it together making something that's a little bit unique. But I think it becomes a genuinely unique work when its turned into a miniature line and army list.

Salnihra
01-10-2007, 06:45
Whenever I play with my Wolf Lord friend (I have a blood angel army), we always joke that it is the re-enactment of the "underworld" movies :D.

The wulfen in the space wolves was underlined with the introduction of the 13th Company, while the vampiric theme of the Blood Angels have been diminishing since the second edition (the artwork of Mephiston in Codex:Angels of Death screams Dracula!) :).

Brandir
01-10-2007, 07:23
I would actually say that warhammer fantasy owes at least as much if not more to Michael Moorcock then to Tolkien. Actually warhammer isn't really for Tolkien like at all. But is a very decent rip off of the Eternal Champion novels.

I believe The Master himself, Rick Priestly, stated that LOTR and the desire to recreate battles such as Helms Deep and Pelenno Fields was the major inspiration behind Warhammer in the early days.

Of course, it has developed somewhat since and found new 'inspiration' for its reimagination at various stages over the years.

theshadowduke
01-10-2007, 08:05
I heard you like the animu gundman.

Its pronounced weeboo

CaptBenedict
01-10-2007, 08:07
Anyone else besides me notice the similarity between the Tau and those Trade Federation aliens from Star Wars episode 1? I'm not talking so much about the armour and mechs, but the aliens themselves... Blue/greyish skin... no nose.

And imho, the kroot are simply KFC rejects. "Hmmm... taste like Kroot."

Nkari
01-10-2007, 08:10
Space wolfs = Get of Fenris from White Wolfs Pen n Paper RPG Werewolf the apocalypse.

Besides, if they did not take insperation from history or popular fiction it would be harder for them to sell the image of the race they are trying so desperatly to make us buy.. =)

vice
01-10-2007, 09:42
This has already been said, but the DA make me suspicious.

a) The dresses. Need I say moar?

b) The secret. Again, 'nuff said.

c) I found out today that one of the moons of Uranus is called Caliban. *nothing suss*

[/joke]

And,


"Originality is the art of concealing your sources"
Ambrose Bierce



Rule 21: Original content is original only for a few seconds before getting old

Damien 1427
01-10-2007, 10:35
Anyone else besides me notice the similarity between the Tau and those Trade Federation aliens from Star Wars episode 1? I'm not talking so much about the armour and mechs, but the aliens themselves... Blue/greyish skin... no nose.

The Tau aren't simply Space Gundams. The idea was to have a "classic" sci-fi race, all hypertech and a notable lack of superstition and angst, unlike every other race in the game which is grim and gritty and archaic tech held together by spit and duct-tape.

The design aesthetic does draw from anime, but I'd argue they do take notes from the Trade Federation as well.

Chaos and Evil
01-10-2007, 10:36
This has already been said, but the DA make me suspicious.

'The Dark Angel' is a poem by Lionel Johnson about being secretly gay... 'nuff said really.

destroyerlord
01-10-2007, 11:43
I thought that Tau were a pretty original race. Well, they look original, as far as I can make out :P

Thats because tau are one of the newest races in 40k. The forces that were originally in the game were mostly inspired by warhammer fantasy at the time. I.e. chaos as chaos, orks as orcs(note the spelling), eldar/dark eldar as elves/dark elves, squats as dwarves, and the imperium as a spiritual successor to the Empire of fantasy (insofar as they are the 'main' human army and most of the background comes from their point of view).
Later armies such as tau, tyranids and necrons all have more original design elements, although tyranids have a similar play style to skaven, and necrons are somewhat inspired by the undead.

IJW
01-10-2007, 12:06
Tyranids are not a 'later army', they were in the original rulebook. Admittedly they changed quite a lot, but then so have the other forces from Rogue Trader.

BattleofLund
01-10-2007, 12:12
I KNOW I've had a lot of 'Duh' moments... but I'm too 'Doh' to remember.


Chaos Spawn = Swamp Monster
Tomb Kings has Mummies, or Necron Lords are sort of similar. Both undead, both retained their intelligence etc... :p


Thats just a Frankenstein we're missing. ;p

I guess Frankie-monsters are too weak to support a whole army on their own, just like Igors. Dark Eldar Grotesques fit the image somewhat (even if they are still alive, and very tortured). Kitbashed people!

Besides BloodBowl, are there any real F. Steins?

Finn
01-10-2007, 14:01
Drunk Viking Werewolves from Outer Space!

In the dictionary under 'redundant' it says 'see redundant'. I wish people would stop calling the Norse/Germanic tribes Vikings. Vikings is far too specific and is being used in too general a sense - the Norse were far more civilized overall (the Viking raids on Europe were the result of several crises) and had a complex social structure. Popular culture has created many misconceptions like these, and not just about "Vikings". Also, like someone said - the Wulfen are more like the Norse/Celtic berserkers who would go into combat naked, sometimes wearing nothing but a bearskin or wolfskin cape or headdress to show their combat prowess.

The Space Wolves follow a warrior code similar to that of the Norsemen, and their chapter structure is more tribal/clan-like than other chapters. But I'm stating the obvious...

On a more general note, the entire Imperium is a cross between the Holy Roman Empire (with bits of the pre-Catholic Roman Empire) and the Spanish Inquisition...

The IG are based on World War I/World War II armies, for the most part, with a few advancements.

I'd also like to comment on the massive influence the Warhammer/40k universe has had on other sci-fi games and stories:

StarCraft and WarCraft in particular
--Protoss are strikingly similar to Eldar.
--Terrans are similar to both Marines and IG, with a little of the rogue aspect of a Chaos infiltration thrown into the secretive and amoral government.
--The Zerg, Tyranids
--Xel'Naga - the Old Ones, obviously. Of course, the idea of an "elder" benevolent race that floats around space creating life, eventually running into another "elder" race that's anathema to them, is prevalent in a lot of broad-scope science fiction story lines.
--WarCraft was originally a computer version of Warhammer, but Blizzard failed to get the rights to use it, so they had to modify it slightly. As a result, the Humans in WarCraft are nearly identical to the Empire, and the Night Elves are almost exactly a combination of Wood Elves and High Elves. The orcs are of course orcs, though in WarCraft they have a societal structure more like greenskinned humans than a Biggest and Baddest/Might makes Right mentality.
Aw crud I forgot my other major one, but I definitely had one...

leonmallett
01-10-2007, 15:10
'The Dark Angel' is a poem by Lionel Johnson about being secretly gay... 'nuff said really.

Wow. That goes in the stuff I never knew file. Time to wiki...

Altashheth
01-10-2007, 15:31
Here are some similarities I've noticed.

Blood Angels - Vampires
Space Wolves - Werewolves
Black Templar - Crusaders from the Hundred Year War
Night Lords - Bats
Tyranids - Aliens
Tau - Your everyday aliens you find in sci-fi games, movies, and books.
Eldar - Elves
Necrons - Terminator meets zombies.
Nurgle - Zombies
Khorne - Berserkers from Final Fantasy
Thousand Sons - Egyptian's
Witch Hunters and Daemon Hunters - Spanish Inquisition.... what? Also the Nazi's as well, though that could be said for the entire Imperium.
Also the Imperial Guard look like their based off of certain movies. Such as Rambo.

And I want to say the Holy Roman Empire is in there somewhere, but I can't figure out where.

In short, I think every army is influenced by something.

Dark angels or at least the deathwing were at one point apache indians hence the feathers.

Ultramarines are roman based

the tau also have alot in common with the covanent from halo.
etheral - prophet
wraith - hammerhead
ghost - pirahna
vespid - drones
kroot - jackel
stealths - stealths