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Cheesejoff
02-09-2005, 15:36
Thinking of getting a new graphics card, I was going to get a nVidia Geforce 6200 256MB , but I saw that for about 20 I could upgrade to a 512MB or get a 6600.

My question is, which is better? Or should I stick with the 6200? Any help is appreciated!

Wiseman
02-09-2005, 15:40
id spend the extra 20, you will regret it later on otherwise

anarchistica
02-09-2005, 16:03
Get the 6600. Having 512MB barely helps, even in Doom 3. Or better yet, get a 6800 Ultra. :p

Yodhrin
02-09-2005, 16:58
You're better off with an ATI for the moment. Last week I wouldnt have said that, but it appears that Nvidia have been "cheating" with their current chipset(all 6xxx and 7xxx cards), using shortcuts for anti-aliasing which result in great FPS benchmarks in tests and reviews, but result in poorer image quality and some artifacts when you activate AA in a game. When the guys who discovered this wrote custom drivers to force the Nvidia cards to run AA normally, the system took a 30% performance hit.

If I were you, I would wait for a few months. Once the latest ATI chipset hits the shelves the price for X800 and X850 cards is going to nosedive and you will be able to pick one up for cheaper than a 6600GT is today.

Cheesejoff
02-09-2005, 18:16
I could actually get a 9800 Pro!

My father is maybe offering to pay some of the money if I get it off Crucial (because he likes their guarantee, and I'm not complaining!) but since they only do ATi, he will probably pay the difference between the 6600 and the 9800 Pro. Should I get the 9800 over the 6600? As far as I can tell, the 9800 is a faster card, and if it's the same price..

But will it be able to cope with the likes of BF2?

Yodhrin
02-09-2005, 18:34
I could actually get a 9800 Pro!

My father is maybe offering to pay some of the money if I get it off Crucial (because he likes their guarantee, and I'm not complaining!) but since they only do ATi, he will probably pay the difference between the 6600 and the 9800 Pro. Should I get the 9800 over the 6600? As far as I can tell, the 9800 is a faster card, and if it's the same price..

But will it be able to cope with the likes of BF2?

Erm, the 6600 is superior to the 9800, the 9800 was last generation, and would be equivalent(although superior) to the Nvidia 5900. If you want an ATI card at the same level as the 6600, go for the budget version of ATI's latest cards, the X700 series I believe, although you will get better value for your money if you put it off for a couple of months like I said.

Why Crucial are charging more for an older generation card than a new one is what I want to know, the 9800 Pro is a nice bit of kit but not that nice.

Sgt John Keel
02-09-2005, 19:22
although you will get better value for your money if you put it off for a couple of months like I said.


That's no way of thinking if you are to buy something. But... I'lll get more for the money in a few months. And then the same thing when the few months have passed, and so on. You'll never get anything that way. ;)

/Adrian

Cheesejoff
02-09-2005, 20:11
Erm, the 6600 is superior to the 9800, the 9800 was last generation, and would be equivalent(although superior) to the Nvidia 5900. If you want an ATI card at the same level as the 6600, go for the budget version of ATI's latest cards, the X700 series I believe, although you will get better value for your money if you put it off for a couple of months like I said.

Why Crucial are charging more for an older generation card than a new one is what I want to know, the 9800 Pro is a nice bit of kit but not that nice.

Uh....no. The 6600 uses corner-cutting techniques to appear faster than the 9800 Pro. In reality it is about 10 FPS slower. (I'm talking about the non-GT version, by the way) According to various websites the 9800 is actually a substantially faster card.

*edit* Link here, the speed actually depends on the game, the 6600 runs faster in Doom 3, but in Half Life 2, the 9800 pro is faster.

KingNic
02-09-2005, 20:39
A 9800 pro runs BF2 and pretty much every game out there at top quality fine. Doom 3 was the only exception.

Yodhrin
02-09-2005, 20:53
Uh....no. The 6600 uses corner-cutting techniques to appear faster than the 9800 Pro. In reality it is about 10 FPS slower. (I'm talking about the non-GT version, by the way) According to various websites the 9800 is actually a substantially faster card.

*edit* Link here, the speed actually depends on the game, the 6600 runs faster in Doom 3, but in Half Life 2, the 9800 pro is faster.

As Nvidia's fiddling has pointed out, FPS is not everything, and Im assuming you want to future-proof your computer a little here, as much as is possible anyway. The 9800 is becoming dated, it doesnt support the latest versions of Pixel Shader and the like, and it will have trouble with the new version of DirectX coming with the new Windows OS. You also cant SLI a 9800, and wont be able to even once Crossfire(ATI's version of SLI) is released. With the 6600 you can grab yourself a cheap nForce 4 chipset SLI board, or with the ATI card wit until a decent Crossfire motherboard hits, that way when your next upgrade time rolls around you can just pick up a second of the same card really cheap and get a good performance boost instead of blowing hundreds of quid on a new top-of-the-range card.

Would you rather have a couple of extra FPS or a card which will stand a couple of years before it becomes dated?

Sgt John Keel: There's a difference between constantly holding out for what could possibly happen and realising there will be a definate bargain to be had in a specific timeframe. When a new chipset gets launched, current cards plummet in price, the 6600GT dropped by nearly 60 on some sites after the 7800GTX hit the shelves. The same thing will happen to the X800 and X850 when the new ATI chipset hits, not a few quid cheaper because the card is aging, but a one-off large pricedrop. Savings of that kind are worth waiting a little for.

Sgt John Keel
02-09-2005, 21:24
Sgt John Keel: There's a difference between constantly holding out for what could possibly happen and realising there will be a definate bargain to be had in a specific timeframe. When a new chipset gets launched, current cards plummet in price, the 6600GT dropped by nearly 60 on some sites after the 7800GTX hit the shelves. The same thing will happen to the X800 and X850 when the new ATI chipset hits, not a few quid cheaper because the card is aging, but a one-off large pricedrop. Savings of that kind are worth waiting a little for.

Of course you have a valid point, and I agree with it to some extent.

One of my arguments against is that a couple of months are pretty big amounts of time in the computer world. Though I'm waiting for dual core Pentium M's until I'm buying a laptop though. ;)

/Adrian

Yodhrin
02-09-2005, 21:49
Of course you have a valid point, and I agree with it to some extent.

One of my arguments against is that a couple of months are pretty big amounts of time in the computer world. Though I'm waiting for dual core Pentium M's until I'm buying a laptop though. ;)

/Adrian

Oh I dont disagree with you in general, most of the time waiting isnt worth the time or hassle, but there are a few occasions that someone who wants a new bit of shiny on a budget should be prepared to exercise some patience and a new chipset launch is one of them, as it invariably results in a significant drop for current ranges of graphics cards.

Six months or a year ago I would have been recommending the 9800 without question, but with all the new software bits and bobs that have hit recently or will hit soon, anyone who wants to future proof their machine for more than a year really needs to be looking at the current generation as opposed to the last one. The 9800 was one of the best cards ever made, in my opinion, and it's had a good run, but it's time to let the old dog die.

Sgt John Keel
02-09-2005, 21:55
Six months or a year ago I would have been recommending the 9800 without question, but with all the new software bits and bobs that have hit recently or will hit soon, anyone who wants to future proof their machine for more than a year really needs to be looking at the current generation as opposed to the last one. The 9800 was one of the best cards ever made, in my opinion, and it's had a good run, but it's time to let the old dog die.

Yes. It's indeed interesting times for the computer industry. Now there's just waiting for games which support multithreaded processes.:rolleyes:

/Adrian

Cheesejoff
03-09-2005, 08:35
I believe my computer doesn't have two slots, so there's no chance of SLI'ing anyway.

And in a year or so's time I will have my own PC. I'm just looking for something to do for maybe a year or two, which is why the 9800 Pro seems good.

Yodhrin
03-09-2005, 09:51
I believe my computer doesn't have two slots, so there's no chance of SLI'ing anyway.

And in a year or so's time I will have my own PC. I'm just looking for something to do for maybe a year or two, which is why the 9800 Pro seems good.

Fair enough, just go for that then, providing you have at least a gig of RAM and a good(above 2.8) processor, you should be fine for a year or so. When you do get around to upgrading though, buy an SLI/Crossfire motherboard, they are cheap as hell and really are necessary to future proof a machine these days.

Just be aware that you wont be able to use any of the fancy new particle effects coming, and that Unreal 3 engine games are going to tax your machine pretty heavily, so you wont be playing anything on max details for long.

Cheesejoff
03-09-2005, 10:18
Ok thanks, I probably won't actually upgrade my PC but get an entirely new one when the time comes. I will be leaving home in a year's time (probably) and my parents will be selling the PC and getting a laptop when I do. So I just need something for abou a year.

I have a P4 processor and 1 Gb RAM, so I should be fine, methinks.


But, does anyone have experience of running, say, BF2 with a 9800 pro?

WLBjork
03-09-2005, 10:30
Up to you at the end of the day, but don't forget to check Aria's (www.aria.co.uk) price before you buy - they are sometimes cheaper, and *will* match - or beat - other prices. The bad side is that the standard P&P charge is about 6+VAT.

Don't forget to check Deal for Today and Super Specials!

Cheesejoff
03-09-2005, 14:03
Thanks for the tip WLBjork, but my dad is paying the difference between any other retailer and crucial (he feels Crucial are safer and have better warranty than most of these e-tailers.

*edit*

Actually, I've found a 6600 GT for a fiver more than the 9800 pro. Is this too good to be true?

WLBjork
04-09-2005, 08:40
Fair enough, I've never had a problem with Aria myself, so I'd recommend it. But as your father is paying the difference, who cares - just get Aria to beat the lowest price you can find so he has to pay more :evilgrin:

As for the 6600GT being 5 more than the 9800Pro, I doubt it's an error - the 6600GT is roughly equivalent to the 9800Pro in terms of where it stands in the Developers product line