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Elric101
01-10-2007, 05:32
I've been playing Imperial Guard (without much success) for around a year and a half now, and have a decent-sized collection. Something along the lines of

80 men
12 HWT
2 Leman Russ
1 Demolisher
Hellhound
Sentinel
Stormtroopers

Problem is, I'm not sure what I can add. I go up against necrons a lot, and barely managed a draw yet. The necron player hides 24 or so warriors to avoid phase out and manages to annhilate my tanks with 2 destroyer lords w' warscythes (2D6+6 armour penetration and 4 attacks), ouch. Then he waits for the monolith to deep strike and clean up the mess his destroyers left behind. He doesn't even teleport warriors in, just leaves them hiding.

My thoughts are to
a) get a bassie or two, easily force the phase out
b) place a ring of guardsmen around each tank to avoid the 2 destroyer lords

So really what I'm asking is what should I add to make my army competitive vs. Necrons and MEQs in general?

So far I like the idea of a basilisk, rough riders and some veterans for elites.
Any other suggestions?

Higgen
01-10-2007, 05:35
3 Units of Hardened Veterans in the following setup:

Hardened Veterans:
Hardened Vet Sarge and 4 Vets
Bolter
Plasma Gun
Plasma Gun
Plasma Gun
76 Points

Deep strike them and most of your problems are solved.

Ktotwf
01-10-2007, 05:35
Uhhhh...lots of Plasma. Hide the Tanks as far in the back as you can, behind your soldiers.

Otherwise, yeah, lots of plasma. Do you have Veteran Squads loaded to the brim with Plasma and Lascannons? Those are ace.

The Hellhound also isn't that great against MEQ.

Agamemnon2
01-10-2007, 06:02
The plasma veterans are pretty much your only hope, I think. Personally, I'd rather keep losing than field them, but to each his own.

Elric101
01-10-2007, 06:38
Ok, I might try to convert some plasma veterans vs. the 'crons, but I have a terrible history with plasma on stormtroopers. But they're cheaper and more plasma in a squad.

What do people think of using a basilisk as opposed to one of the russes or demolisher?

And one more question, the monolith. What's a reasonable amount of lascannons to take in the list? Or is some other method more worthwhile?

I'm getting scared of the monolith, as the guy I'm playing is planning on taking 3 (yes, 3!!!!!) in 2000 points, which seems insane. But the model count should be comparatively low, so phase out is an option.

BTW, Rough riders, do they find any use versus necrons?

Hulkster
01-10-2007, 07:15
rough riders are great against crons, just make sure you use a couple of units and have enough cover to get them there.

if the guy takes 3 mons in 2000 pts then your only real option is phase out, I wouldnt bother with RR in that case and instead take deep stiking hardend vets and ST squads tooled up with plasma and go hunting the ones that hide.

Also just fill up on heavy weapons and target the crons first, mons are secondary targets

Elric101
01-10-2007, 07:57
Thanks for the replies thus far.

I'm also considering picking up the witch hunters codex soon, keep my options open.

Are there any especially useful units for WH? I know seraphim are decent, but maybe not so much against Necrons.

Gen.Steiner
01-10-2007, 08:58
I recommend looking at the Tactica: Imperial Guard thread (http://warseer.com/forums/40k-tactics/101-tactica-imperium-guard.html) and also, if you're thinking of looking at the Sisters, this thread here (http://warseer.com/forums/40k-tactics/151-tactica-witchhunter.html).

More generally, if you're facing Necrons, tanks are so much dead meat. Get yourself more infantry, load them up with plasma guns and autocannons, and think about making your entire arm Drop Troopers.

Your humble Sister is pretty damn good, with a better BS and armour save than a Guardsman, as well as having access to things like Faith Points and the resulting AP1 flamethrower template...

...note that a three Monolith army is horribly vulnerable to Phase Out. :)

plague man
01-10-2007, 09:04
go to the imperial guard message board here for all your guard questions

http://commissar.proboards22.com/index.cgi

WLBjork
01-10-2007, 09:09
And one more question, the monolith. What's a reasonable amount of lascannons to take in the list? Or is some other method more worthwhile?


If he really does go for 3 monoliths, take a Bassie. He wants to hide his warriors? Fine, drop an Earthshaker Shell on them (shame it's not 2nd edition, how'd you like 2 shells per turn? :D)

alexh
01-10-2007, 10:28
Take 3 bassies and use one to fire spotter rounds.

thegreyman
01-10-2007, 10:50
Take 3 bassies and use one to fire spotter rounds.

That would only work in Apocalypse.

Bassie's may work... they are hideously easy to outflank with destroyers, and the minimum might hurt you. Definatly hide the tanks behind infantry, but remember to keep spread out also, don't clump up. if the tanks are spread out all the way across the table, the Lord has to pursue each one individually. Also, the Lord only hits automatically if you sit still, so start moving when he comes after you. Even if it's only 1", he still needs 4's.

Neknoh
01-10-2007, 10:59
3 Bassies with Indirect should see him Phace Out very quickly with a bit of luck.

Rough Riders to charge those Necron Lords or Destroyers would be very useful. Also, once you've picked up the WH codex, this is one instance where I can see Arco flaggies really working when it comes to taking on Destroyers

Wolflord Havoc
01-10-2007, 11:21
Drop the Tanks and take 2 Mortar Squads and 2 Las cannon Squads as part of your HQ. + Take a Bassie.

Morter the hell out of his hiding troops + Bassie them or use the Bassie and Lascannon on his Mons. The rest of yoiur Army take out his fast movers.

Or as someone else has suggested take an All deep striking plasma and Demo charge equipped Guard Army and phase him out. Normally I hate this tactic, but 3 Mons......let him have it.

Bunnahabhain
01-10-2007, 12:19
Firstly, don't get discouraged. Necrons are just plain evil, and one of the hardest armies for the Guard to beat. They're absolute murder on our tanks, and are even harder than a standard Marine to take down with lasguns. At least the power armour brigade don't get back up again....

Add to that that their biggest weakness is in hand to hand combat, and they present a problem.

I have some success with lots of Las Plas squads, lots of plasma/melta storm troopers/vets , a few autocannons to hit skimming things, and 30 rough riders.

Against his specific tactics, I have two points.

Meltas only roll 1 D6 penetration vs the monolith, but are AP 1, so any 6's are penetrating hits. It's not great, but it's safer than demolisher shells in a confined space.

If his lords are coming tank hunting, it means they're not carrying a res orb about for the troops. This is good. Also, they don't count as being in combat with the tanks, and so can be shot at. Rapid firing plasma still only needs a 2 to wound, and the lord is relying on invulnerable saves. He might as well just stand in front of a firing squad....

Elric101
01-10-2007, 12:32
As to taking down the 2 lord destroyers, I don't think he even has an invulnerable save.

Plasma guns sound nice, but not for my normal infantry squads. Storm troopers or veterans perhaps.

Another crazy idea was to form a line of guardsmen around each tank to protect it from the c.c. lord, This will work well enough I think.

One more vital question is deployment, how would I best do it.
Refused flank, split, long gun-line- I'm just not sure. Any help in that department would be great.

Thanks for the help so far.

Finn
01-10-2007, 13:47
Drop the Tanks and take 2 Mortar Squads...

Morter the hell out of his hiding troop...

For the love of god, don't. Best thing about the mortar is the pin check IF you manage to kill something, and 'crons have Ld 10 (so 9 to a mortar). Don't do it. Waste of points.

Also, if you're not just going to be playing Necrons, keep the Hellhound. It's a solid tank against every army, really, though it really shines against things with 4+ saves...The simple fact that it wounds on a 2+ against MEQ makes it still worth the points.

Don't tool out your squads too much - you're still vulnerable to gauss, and you'll need the bodies. Don't bother with a lascannon in your veteran squads - they're best on the move. Buy power weapons for the guys that can take them, they eliminate We'll Be Back and are cheap. Hang onto at least 1 Russ - I'd say the Demolisher. What I'd do with that thing is equip it with Plasma cannons and sit at 36" shooting the hell out of him, and when he gets close enough blast him with the big one. Ignore the Monoliths if there are multiple and go for phase out. If there's one - you may want to take it out. The Demolisher would be best for this if you're low on lascannons.

A 3-weapon lascannon squad wouldn't be a bad idea. Also, outfit your normal infantry squads with rockets - cheaper than lascannons and they do the same job. If you use deep strike (and I recommend it), you may want to consider a sentinel with an appropriate weapon - a heavy flamer if you're not just facing Necrons, a lascannon otherwise.

My 2000 point army against said opponent would likely look like this:

Doctrines - Veterans, Drop Troops, Carapace Armor, Grenadiers, Close-order Drill

Demolisher w/Plasmas
2 Basilisks w/Indirect
3x Veteran Squads (8 men each) w/Power weapon, 3x Plasma, Carapace
Platoon w/
--4x Plasma, power weapon command section
--4 squads w/Grenade Launcher (for cheapness' sake), Rocket
Stormtroopers (8) w/2x Plasma, Power weapon
--Chimera w/Multilaser, HB, Stubber
Stormtroopers (8) w/2x Plasma, Power weapon
--Chimera w/Multilaser, HB, Stubber
Command platoon w/4x Plasma, Power weapon
~225-230 points of other stuff (Lascannon squad, Sentinels)...

I'd use the stormtroopers and their chimeras in concentrated fire against isolated Necron squads. Immortals and Destroyers would be priority targets. I'd use the Demolisher to blast him for a few turns with the plasma cannons, likely focusing on Warrior squads. The Basilisks would blast the tastiest targets. I'd drop in the command sections and the veteran squads where needed. I'd use the platoon's squads to guard the basilisks and demolisher. Use terrain to your best advantage - refused flank will likely work best, but don't go with that just because. You should always set up where you'll have clear lanes of fire and the ability to focus on one or two squads at a time, while dropping in your hard-hitting plasma troops against isolated squads or en masse against a couple of squads. Focus fire is your friend - they can't make WBB rolls if they're outside a certain distance of like-type troops.

Tensor
01-10-2007, 14:36
Firstly, I would say that Guard are one of the hardest armies to play well with against Necrons. Everything necrons have kills everything Guard has with ease.

However your friend is playing thins quite odd. I think you have a good chance of winning by going for phase out on his warriors and ignoring his lords. He is leaving his warriors massively exposed, because without a res orb nearby, they wont get we'll be back to instant kill. Presumably, to keep them all hidden he is also having to bunch them up somewhat. This means that a basilisk or leman russ should be able to cut swathes through them.

I would try and field 1 basilisk and 2 russes. 1 lucky indirect basie shot could win you the game but I would also split the russes one to each side of the board and be very aggressive with them - basicly try and move enough that you can get a shot on his warriors because again, one good shot could all but win you the game.

Under most circumstances I would also agree wit the plasma gun thing but in these narrow circumstances I would consder melta guns deep striking in veteran or stormtrooper squads. Yet again you want to take advantage of the lack of resorb support to try and instant kill warriors denying them we'll be back.

Basicly - the way you ar going to win against this guy is phasing him out. Keep your eyes on the prize and go for the jugula and you should be ablt to make him pay. Then next time he might think twice about leaving no resorb with his warriors.

UncleCrazy
01-10-2007, 17:46
I would go mass troops with Missle Launchers and Nade Launchers, with Rough riders backing them up. And shoot his troops or go for the mission.