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a-w-a
03-10-2007, 21:42
On the GW site they state that a Space Marine Battle Company ...

"A Battle Company can defeat an enemy army ten times its size, such is the breadth of their skill that there is little in the field of war that they cannot achieve."

So which armies exactly can an SM battle Company beat when outnumbered ten to one ? I know anything is possible - but everything counts in large amounts.

A-W-A

Killgore
03-10-2007, 22:17
im going to try and do that one day in a apoc battle :)

now i gotta go off and find 1000 models hmmmm

Culven
03-10-2007, 22:20
100 Space Marines vs. 1000 Grots. :D

warboss48
03-10-2007, 22:25
im going to try and do that one day in a apoc battle :)

now i gotta go off and find 1000 models hmmmm

1000 marines is a chapter Killgore. 100 is a company.

Scowny
03-10-2007, 22:30
Which is why you need 1000 enemies to fight them with

Deadnight
03-10-2007, 22:59
Thats imperial propaganda really. It depends on a lot of circumstances. Like say, who are they fighting, are the defenders dug in, and fortified. What is the defenders morale. What equipment do they have. And so on. What is the state of the marines. Are they just loaded with bolters and light weapons. Or do they have things that can take on super heavies, or things beyond the 40k scale. What is their mission? Is it an orbital insertion to kill a rebel governor and then bugger off, or are they doing a foolish last stand in a fort on top of a hill with a whole enemy army surrounding them?

If an Ultramarine company dropped in on, say, 1000 kanak skill takers (IG) with laspistols and axes, they'll easily kill 1000 of them. If they drop in on Cadia, and have to fight 1000 cadians, fully equipped, extremely well trained, dedicated, with all fire lanes covered, with full armoured and artillery support, with orbital barrage proof bunkers, i'd give the cadians the better odds of winning.

And then there is the battle on taros where a company of marines got their asses handed to them by 2 tau hunter cadres. then again, they were running constant Baracuda strafing runs, and the mantas were pounding away the Marine positions.

they're good, but there are too many factors in it to say "yes, they'll fight and win against 10 times their number". Put them into a protracted campaign, and hit them with stuff they're not capable of reliably countering and the marines will falter.

AngryAngel
03-10-2007, 23:27
Well I thiink if equiped to be well rounded..and the constant all roundes as they are. They could do just as the claim says. Though honestly 100 to 1000 is a little rough to imagine let alone believe in a moden conflict. If clever enough, skilled enough, and armed appropriatly a small number could take on a much larger one. Like the spartans, though they wouldn't, just like the spartans be able to survive forever like such. The numbers will eventually make all the diffrence.

A marine battle company set somewhere for battle with just light weapons, would be lead by a foolish commander indeed. It would make much more sense they'd come fielded for anything they may encounter. Lascannons for busting heavy tanks, missle launchers for less dedicated use. Melta for up close and personal use. Some plasma weapons for heavy infantry. Power fists, melta bombs. Heavy bolters..all set around. Using their rhinos for either firelane blockers if they need to hold down as a static line. Or pushing forward and covering the infantrys advance with their hulls.

The flexability that is the space marine hall mark can be used, and if you make a good solid list, the battle company will be a force to be taken seriously. As would any group of marines even fluff wise, used as such.

Though yes outside circumstances can alter that for better or worse. As they could have thunderhawk runs to support their battles. Orbital bombardent to strike surgically and support marine forces fire, and their impending assaults.

Or the enemy could have them cut off..and be pounding the hell out of them with their own air strikes..or artillery.

Polonius
04-10-2007, 01:00
The real advantage the marines have is in mobility and support. When modern armies fight 3rd world militias, part of the advantage is in better arms, training, and morale, but even more of it is in intel, communication, the ability to pick the battlefield, and initiative.

Even against a 1000 dug in cadian, if a SM chapter drop pods in at night, after knocking out command and control and/or any flood lights, the SM chapter can probobly carve them up quick and dirty before the cadians can mount any sort of organized resistance.

Brother Loki
04-10-2007, 01:05
In the battle of Mogadishu in 1993 (familiar to many from Black Hawk Down) the US rangers and support elements numbered around 100-150. Estimates placed the enemies arrayed against them at between 5,000 and 10,000. Somali dead at over 1,000. Almost every one of the rangers was injured, and they lost around 20 men. Oh, and they achieved their objective and captured several militia leaders.

That's what happens when highly trained and well equipped troops with proper support (read Astartes) fight less well trained and equipped forces (read most of their enemies in 40k).

Suddenly the stories about Space Marines don't seem quite as far fetched, do they?

Lionsbane
04-10-2007, 01:11
Then there is the fact that tabletop Marines have to be balanced. And Fluff wise they are in no way shape or form balanced.

Noserenda
04-10-2007, 01:15
Exactly, tabletop Marines bear little relation to the fluff

Kahadras
04-10-2007, 01:25
And then there is the battle on taros where a company of marines got their asses handed to them by 2 tau hunter cadres. then again, they were running constant Baracuda strafing runs, and the mantas were pounding away the Marine positions

Actualy if you read the Taros campaign stuff the Marine gave far more than they got. The Tau had to throw virtualy everything they had at the Marines to finaly dislodge them and they paid a heavy price doing so.

This was against the lightest of opposition as well. IIRC the Marine commander had 40 marines, 2 Dreadnoughts and a squad of Terminators. I wonder how the battle would have gone if the Marines had 100 troops backed up by plenty of heavy weapons, supplies and armoured support.

Kahadras