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fellows
04-09-2005, 08:08
I missed the actual broadcast but apparently NBC had a rude awakening when Kanye West went on the air and openly criticised both the Media and particularly the Bush administration.

Many people have called this a "whinny attempt at attention" what do you guys think.

Personally, although I like his music, and hate his attitude, I think he was right. I really enjoyed the comment by NBC afterwards. Sometimes life is a little too real for the Stepford Wives.

Hlokk
04-09-2005, 11:10
To be honest, i cant stand Kanye West. He's just brought a new album out and this outburst is probably nothing more than a plug to boost album sales. Criticising bush seems to be very fashionable in hiphop at the moment, with guys like eminem and Twista both doing it in their songs as well.

Plus Kanye West is a bitter, racist, pathetic rapper. Listen to the college dropout and some of the lyrics on there, he dropped out of college and pretty much has a go at anyone who is either white or goes to college.

Wiseman
04-09-2005, 12:05
never heard of him, who is exactly (more detail then what Hlokk gave;))

tzeentchgiant
04-09-2005, 12:08
Did he do the I'm so lonely song?

And I would guess this is just publicity, can't stand people who over politisize songs, or give out messages like this, just to get attention.

TG

Strictly Commercial
04-09-2005, 12:31
I want to know what it is about musicians that qualifies them to comment on the state of politics, anyway. As far as I am concerned, they produce a product, nothing more. Bands should get back to producing music and stop trying to make statements in everything they do. Whatever happened to rocking out for the sake of it? The worst was a NOFX concert I went to last year. At the interim some guy came out promoting a DVD about all the cover ups in Iraq, and went on for a half hour. Five minutes would have been okay but I didn't come to hear this tool promote his agenda, I came to listen to the best punk band in history. Really annoying.

Lord Lucifer
04-09-2005, 12:53
Kanye West is the guy that did the 'Jesus Walks' song, and the godawful* 'Diamonds from Sierre Leone' track.

On the one hand, criticism of the media for not asking enough questions and not probing deep enough, and making fair criticism of the government, is all good and necessary
But at this point, I'm quite sick of musicians jumping on a political bandwagon and milking it for all it's worth (Greenday, I'm looking at you)


I get the feeling Kanye may just be a populist relying on faith and politics for maximum exposure and some quick credibility


*in my opinion. No, I do not care what your music tastes are, I don't like the song and I find that ample reason for me to not listen to it.

tzeentchgiant
04-09-2005, 13:07
I actually quite like the "Jesus Walks" song, I like the beat of it, it must be someone else who does the I'm so lonely song, oh well.

And yes I agree Greenday should leave the politics out, it's spoiling the music, just like what happened to SOAD.

TG

Vaya
04-09-2005, 13:15
'Mr. Lonely' is by a guy named Akon. Which makes me always think of 'acorn'. Which, translated in Dutch, is 'eikel'. Which also means 'a$$hole'...

Seriously though, including politcs in songs is okay, as long as it's a little more intelligent than 'screw the president, help the poor, the world sucks'.

That said, those mascara-wearing puckrock-sellouts of Green Day should be sentenced to something horrible at least. ;)

5upr3m3 h4xx0rz
04-09-2005, 13:43
Akon is awesome....kanye is a fake.


But DMX is rap king


And i hate greenday for using their anti-bush crap just to get more publicity, and im anti bush. They just overdo it

Yodhrin
04-09-2005, 13:50
If you can find it, watch the clip it's Hi-larious. Mike Myers is standing there doing it well, all serious, then that Kanye starts going on about people getting shot and suddenly just blurts out "Bush hates black people" :p

Honest to God, out of nowhere, and the look on Myers' face is just priceless.

N'bel
04-09-2005, 13:52
Someone please find me this link!

de Selby
04-09-2005, 13:53
Mike Myers' face during the 'outburst' made me laugh more than anything else he's ever done.

Other than that, meh. The guy had a platform and he used it.

Vaya
04-09-2005, 13:57
Here you go:

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/09/02.html

Oh yes I did
04-09-2005, 14:04
I can't believe I'm about to defend Kanye...

Yeah, back in the day I could never stand the guy either; he seemd to be marketing on this whole "Oh, check me out, I make commercial hip hop WITHOUT talking about guns/drug/bitches/whatever, I'm so damn unique and vaguely socially concious, blah blah token blah". Which I find insulting. So I got ready to enjoy how enlightened and superior and real I truly was.

But at some point I sat down and actually copped the first album, and the guy seems both surprisingly insightful and unexpectedly earnest in his social commentary. Yeah, he's anti-white, yeah he's vaguely anti-intellectual, and yeah he's a bit reactionary, but I don't know that it's necessarily fair to lump him in with so many other celebrities who misguidedly and ignorantly talke up half assed political causes, the mechanisms of which they clearly don't understand, as some sort of fashion and publicity statement. (Make Poverty History kids, I'm talking to you...)

Listening to Kanye, he seems to actually know what he's talking about, and he spends a lot of time attacking targets that arn't exactly going to endear him to a traditionally reactionary, disenfranchised, bottom rung socio-economic african american "hip hop" demographic - He spends far more time pointing out the idiocy and counter-productiveness of african american capitalist excess, for example, then he does bitching and moaning about the soft target War against Terror.

Understand I don't necessarily like the guy. But he's more legit than a lot of others.

Vaya
04-09-2005, 14:06
Listening to Kanye, he seems to actually know what he's talking about, and he spends a lot of time attacking targets that arn't exactly going to endear him to a traditionally reactionary, disenfranchised, bottom rung socio-economic african american "hip hop" demographic

*gets out his English-Dutch dictionary*

Kohhna
04-09-2005, 14:09
MTV.com bio (http://www.mtv.com/bands/az/west_kanye/bio.jhtml)
For those of you still wondering.

The quote I belive was "George Buch doesn't care about black people" rather than the more histrionic "George Buch hates black people".

Fair play to him. He is and has always been aware of the potential for his role as a spokesperson, and used it. In the past he has spoken out against the Gay-Bashing trend in Hip hop, and the song "We all fall down" was a decent attempt at examining consumerism and body image in black America.

Vaya
04-09-2005, 14:14
Well, nothing new there: George Bush doesn't care about people period.

tzeentchgiant
04-09-2005, 14:19
Having just watched it, my opinion has completely changed, he does have a point, or rather, his point is the god honest truth about the situation.

I have a new respect for him, he seems to be really sincere about the cause.

TG

Asher
04-09-2005, 15:27
Given that some people rather listen to their favorite preformer concering politics (or really everything else) than to news or studies, it is good that he does that, despite being an effort to make him self more popular.

Vaya
04-09-2005, 15:42
Well, let's face it: musicians and movie stars are people that influence a big audience, and I generally have no problem they use that influence to create societal awareness amongst their fans. But at the same time, they also have the responsibility to be careful what they say, since some people misinterpret what their 'examples' or 'heroes' say. Nice example (though not really revolutionary) is the 'Stan' song by Eminem.
So yeah, maybe Kanye West is right, and president Bush doesn't care about black people. Does that contribute anything in this case? No. Does it help the victims of Katrina? No. Does it restore the order in New Orleans? Hardly. It just creates an extra row, which honestly nobody needs right now.

Asher
04-09-2005, 15:52
Well, let's face it: musicians and movie stars are people that influence a big audience, and I generally have no problem they use that influence to create societal awareness amongst their fans. But at the same time, they also have the responsibility to be careful what they say, since some people misinterpret what their 'examples' or 'heroes' say. Nice example (though not really revolutionary) is the 'Stan' song by Eminem.
So yeah, maybe Kanye West is right, and president Bush doesn't care about black people. Does that contribute anything in this case? No. Does it help the victims of Katrina? No. Does it restore the order in New Orleans? Hardly. It just creates an extra row, which honestly nobody needs right now.

But it leads people to 'think'. If none said a thing and everyone behaved like this chaos was inevetable people would not learn form it and make the same mistakes again (on every level).
Discussions is what leads to new ideas, aproatches and maybe improvements. To have discussions someone has to spark them, and it seems that this Kanye dude did it.

Vaya
04-09-2005, 16:03
Sure, you're right at that. But I think he chose the wrong time and platform for venting his anger.

Odin
04-09-2005, 16:47
"Did he do the I'm so lonely song?"

What, the one from Team America: World Police?

Dunno who he is, other than what people have said on here. He's got a point though.

I'm happy for celebs to talk politics as long as they do it intelligently. There was some muppet DJ at Glastonbury who between "songs" said something along the lines of "this next track goes out to anyone who, er, doesn't believe what the government says. Cos it's like, all lies innit. You know wot I mean." Wow, thanks for the insightful comments mate!

redemptionist15
04-09-2005, 16:52
I don't see the problem, all music is a product of society, to then say its wrong for an artist to comment on socialogical or political issues is denying them a right that all of us have.

I prefer artists that include politics and social commentary in their music as well as other inspirations, to me it makes the music more realistic, more reflective of the world we live in.

Yes you can view it as publicity stunt, in fact to his label it probably was, but as for Kanye West himself i respect him putting his views across, there's nothing wrong about speaking out in my opinion.

Crazy Harborc
04-09-2005, 17:28
I saw that live and several times since on tape. IMHO, my take on it?........ The purpose for the live telecast was to urge people across all colour lines to send money, to help the black and white survivors. Before the rescuing is done is not the time to start the blaming and firings.

That telecast WAS NOT for the purposes of fostering a political or cultural agenda platform. The man was out of line with ANY claims that the media wasn't reporting on the situation of the blacks trapped. As of when I started watching,............hundreds, thousands of blacks and a few other colours were on the screen. White and black reporters, male and female, referred to the facts (seen on the screen too). Questions were raised by reporters on all the news networks, cable and regular.

Delicious Soy
05-09-2005, 00:22
But it leads people to 'think'. If none said a thing and everyone behaved like this chaos was inevetable people would not learn form it and make the same mistakes again (on every level).
Discussions is what leads to new ideas, aproatches and maybe improvements. To have discussions someone has to spark them, and it seems that this Kanye dude did it.But that just it, listening to his (or any other celebrity for that matter) rant or music isn't going to get people to spontaneously 'think', they'd be thinking already. All it does is shift their adherence from one thing to another, and quite frankly, I'd rather have idiots towing the party line than trying to be subversive.

Yog Sogoth
05-09-2005, 06:24
I think your all missing something. And thats that George W. doesn't care about human beings period.

I think that solves that.

Seriously the man has the right to criticize whoever he wants.

The Dragon Reborn
05-09-2005, 08:39
and poor mike had to keep a straight face through it all... sorry but I laughed, hard

Vaya
05-09-2005, 08:42
I think your all missing something. And thats that George W. doesn't care about human beings period.

I think you missed my post on the previous page. :D

Spacemunkie
05-09-2005, 09:33
The guy is a cretin. He rants incoherently about the media and their portrayal of the situation, then has the gall to criticise others based on the knowledge he has garnered from the situation from where?? T.V.

Utter imbecile. Crazy Harborc has it spot on. That was a plea for funds and NOT a stage for a halfwit to spout their half-baked, ill informed beliefs. How about he pledges all proceeds from his latest album sales to the cause?

Kittah
05-09-2005, 09:43
I thought it was funny :D

That said, no matter whether his views were valid or not, he was a complete and utter ***** in how he delivered them.

I thought the look on his face in the second or so after he said it was hilarious. Kind of a "There. I've said it. Now I'm *********."