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Goldman
09-10-2007, 21:52
I just had to ask, does the new High Elf rule that allows them to strike first work against every opponent, even say a Dark Elf or Skaven assassin? Would a simple spearman strike before Shadowblade, for example?

Thank you.

Neknoh
09-10-2007, 21:58
Question for rules forum

However, if two models have Always Strike First, then the Highest Initiative strikes first

theunwantedbeing
09-10-2007, 22:01
It depends on the wording of the special rule.
Untill the book is realsed we cannot really answer that question.

Assuming its the same as the special rule "always strikes first" in the rulebook.
In the case of the assasins they gain the same rule(only in the turn they are revealed though), so would fight first down to having the highest leadership(although you'de roll off for the skaven assasin vs the High elf lord due to equal initiutives.)

Although the great shadowblade strikes after even High elf archers as he doesnt have the always strikes first rule even when revealing himself.

505
10-10-2007, 04:28
he's being nice and giving them the chance..before dying a horrid death...mabey

The Old Scholar
10-10-2007, 06:28
I knew there was a weakness to that guy.
I wonder if they'll scrap him.
They miraculously healed Eltharion, apparently...so what do they have in store for Shadowblade?

Scythe
10-10-2007, 09:35
I knew there was a weakness to that guy.
I wonder if they'll scrap him.
They miraculously healed Eltharion, apparently...so what do they have in store for Shadowblade?

Kill him, just like Kouran. For some reason, only the dark elf characters get killed, while the witch king is so generous that he spares his HE prisoners (Eltharion). Wait a second....:p

theunwantedbeing
10-10-2007, 17:12
He'll most likely get himself killed, perhaps by eltharion, maybe by tyrion.
Teclis hasnt killed any DE character's yet has he?
Im sure Teclis will get him, in single combat no less.

Such is the way of the GW writers to make the fluff as rediculous and biased towards the high elves as possible.

chivalrous
10-10-2007, 21:31
Although the great shadowblade... doesnt have the always strikes first rule even when revealing himself.

you're half right, but it is dependant on where he is hiding :).

If he is hiding in a Dark Elf Unit, he gets to ' always strike first' just as a regular assassin would.
using the Hidden rules on page 11 of Warhammer Armies: Dark Elves;

However if he hiding in an enemy unit then he only counts as charging, which doesn't help against anyone with ASF, not just High Elves :-/
Place Shadowblade anywhere in contact with the unit. If he is revealed voluntarily, Shadowblade counts as charging that turn; if he was discovered then the enemy count as charging

DragonPup
10-10-2007, 21:35
Teclis hasnt killed any DE character's yet has he?
Im sure Teclis will get him, in single combat no less.


Not that I am aware of, but he totally murdered Be'lakor if memory serves.

j1n
05-11-2007, 13:03
I have a question regarding ASF. Do i understand correct that swordmasters and white lions with this rule always strike last in close combat with their great weapons vs enemies that also have the ASF ability(and fight with "normal" weapons)?
(Except when HE charge)

T10
05-11-2007, 13:07
Yes.

-T10

EDIT:

Silly me. I read that at "do they always strike FIRST even if armed with great weapons". Plese disregard my initial answer and read "No" instead.

Atrahasis
05-11-2007, 13:37
No. Where two models have Always Strikes First, compare initiative and then roll off if there is a tie - great weapons do not enter into it. cf p94

j1n
05-11-2007, 14:22
"Troops armed with a weapon that strikes last will always strike last during close combat where they would otherwise strike in Initiative order."
p.55 para 1.
When both opponents have ASF, the combat is fought in initiative order. => The rule for great weapons works as described above.

Atrahasis
05-11-2007, 14:23
Hmm, guess I should have checked both rules really :P

One.Fit.Outcast.
06-11-2007, 00:05
ah good, so my chaos lord of khorne with the blade of blood atop a chaos dragon but now donning the helm of many eyes will strike before swordmasters, as will any chaos unit i can manage to give always strikes first rule...now how can i do that?
one question though, if on a dragon my lord fails a stupidity test for wearing the helm of many eyes, does he move forward 2" as would be his 1/2 of his movement, 3" as would be 1/2 of the dragon's ground movement or 10" as would be 1/2 the dragon's fly movement?

Sinzaren
06-11-2007, 22:42
As far as I can recall, it would be 3" half of the dragons movement

Atrum Angelus
07-11-2007, 02:56
There are two rules that cover the entire High Elf army.
The first is they all get hated enemy: Dark Elves.
The second is all High Elves strike first, even when carrying Greatswords, etc, that would normally cause a model to strike last.

superknijn
07-11-2007, 09:48
High Elves do not have Hatred: Dark Elves, IIRC. Last time I heard, they are Stubborn against Dark Elves, or something like that.

Atrum Angelus
07-11-2007, 10:12
High Elves do not have Hatred: Dark Elves, IIRC. Last time I heard, they are Stubborn against Dark Elves, or something like that.

I just flipped through the book today, am I'm pretty sure it was hatred... but I could be getting mixed up with something else (the Shadow Warriors comes to mind, but I know they get Hatred Everyone...). I'll read it again tomorrow and confirm tomorrow night.

marv335
07-11-2007, 12:02
High elves may re-roll psychology tests against dark elves.
the only HE with hatred are the shadow warriors, who hate everyone.
they really hate DE though, and have hatred in every round of combat

Tutore
07-11-2007, 12:18
Didn't the HE book already come out in England? I bought it in Italy 4 days ago.

EvC
08-11-2007, 11:49
"Troops armed with a weapon that strikes last will always strike last during close combat where they would otherwise strike in Initiative order."
p.55 para 1.
When both opponents have ASF, the combat is fought in initiative order. => The rule for great weapons works as described above.

It's a nightmare trying to convince people this is the case. It'll be amusing when Swordmasters charge Spearmen in High Elf vs High Elf games, as the Spearmen will strike first...

Atrahasis
08-11-2007, 11:50
Not nearly as amusing as when spearmen charge spearmen and it comes down to a simple dice roll :(

UberBeast
08-11-2007, 14:27
Such is the way of the GW writers to make the Fluff as rediculous and biased towards the high elves as possible.

Judging by that outlandishly ficticious statement I'll guess you're either trying to make a joke or have never actually read any fluff for elves and are only taking this one example as the whole basis for your opinion. I'm curious where you see this so call "rediculous and biased" fluff.

I might preemptively remind you that no HE force has ever successfully invaded a DE land, and have time and time again had arbitrary invasions against their own lands, their people and cities destroyed and their leaders arbitrarily captured, blinded and made to look like fools.

Then suddenly DEs have dragon eggs (which they never had before), gain traitor smiths of vaul, have made pacts with chaos marauders and win Albion by weight of cheating. Let's not forget two revisions to the DE list while the HEs got nothing. Now to top it all a pitance model release with one of the poorest line of new releases I've ever seen them attempt. I would expect at the very least for you to come up with some proof that the fluff writers had the HEs kill and enslave the entire DE race before any of the crap anti-HE fluff they have written seems biased in their favor.

Heck I even stopped playing HEs because I got so sick of GWs abuse.