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mistformsquirrel
12-10-2007, 04:10
As per usual <,< I've been thinking (A dangerous thing I know)...

So here's what my brain has gotten up to this time. Could a Space Marine that has served in the Death Watch with distinction, and proven his abilities in an investigative fashion, possibly find himself first - in an Inquisitorial Retinue, and then later, as an Inquisitor himself?

I know we're not talking 'likely' here; but could it be possible to have a Marine-Inquisitor?

Nothing I'm really thinking about for tabletop at all; just one of those "Hmm... 'What if?'" type questions.

DantesInferno
12-10-2007, 04:19
Could it be "possible"? Yeah, probably. Plausible? I wouldn't say so.

The Deathwatch don't investigate, they're brought in to kill things and ask questions afterwards.

Inquisitors need to be suspicious, independent-minded, analytical and with the ability to question absolutely everything. Marines are trained to be almost exactly the opposite: trained to obey authority no matter what. Sure, the Deathwatch are selected from the more independent members of their Chapter, but it's still an incredibly closed-minded atmosphere.

And I'm sure the other Inquisitors wouldn't be too thrilled about a Marine-Inquisitor: it fairly blatantly breaches the separation of powers doctrine that the Imperium has got going.

Khaine's Messenger
12-10-2007, 04:38
but could it be possible to have a Marine-Inquisitor?

I personally think that it is unlikely in the absurd extreme for a Marine to be inducted as an Inquisitor in an official paperwork sense, although circumstances could, in theory, lead to a situation where that is effectively what an individual Space Marine becomes. After all, there comes a point when just having an Inquisitor's credentials on your person makes you an Inquisitor--or an individual acting on behalf and with the full rights of the Inquisition--by default.

This is one of those "office versus person" questions that is interesting to contemplate but relatively easy to resolve. The end result can seem hackneyed or forced, though, especially since Space Marines can already speak and act from a position of authority (even though it goes against the Imperium's policy on the matter). To a certain extent, it's like asking how someone who's elite can become more elite, and that's kind of tedious. Consider the Assassin-Inquisitors of the Ordo Sicarus, for example...it's kind of silly to think of an Assassin invoking Inquisitorial privilege. Indeed, such agents are more Inquisitorial plants in the assassin-temples than they are super-powered assassins.

Argastes
12-10-2007, 04:46
I tend to agree that a Marine would have entirely the wrong mindset to make a good inquisitor. Inquisitors have to be very, well, inquisitive. They need to have a head for schemes and conspiracies, secrets and hidden truths, subtleties and paradoxes, and so forth. They need to be able to go incognito and pose as an ordinary person. They need to be able to sift through huge amounts of seemingly trivial or unrelated information and pick out the subtle hints and clues that reveal a sinister pattern or larger truth, even though each bit of info might seem innocent and insignificant on it's own. Not that I"m saying Space Marines are stupid brutes--far from it--but I don't think their training really orients them towards this mindset. I would think they would tend to be suspicious or disdainful of such sneakiness and subtlety, instead preferring the straightforward, honorable, warrior's way.

Plus, I have a hard time imagining a Marine accepting a job offer from the Inquisition and leaving his chapter. Although the phrase "battle brothers" gets tossed around a lot in reference to space marines, I think we need to appreciate just how deep the fraternal bond between the Marines of a chapter must really be. These are men who, in addition to being blood brothers (kind of...) have fought alongside each other, saving each others lives, sharing the triumph of victory and the grief of fallen comrades, for decades or centuries. And they have no other families, no loved ones, no children, nothing except their battle brothers. I can't imagine a Marine going off to join the Inquisition and leaving all that behind.

But, despite everything I've said, it is theoretically possible, just extremely unlikely. In a setting as vast as the 40K universe, even the extremely unlikely could well occur somewhere, at some time, even if only once. So if you like the idea, go for it!

stormblade
12-10-2007, 06:10
Dark Angles seem to be orientated towards 'finding' and 'hunting' people so they might have some abilities for inquisition.

Still highly unlikely.

Vaulkhar
12-10-2007, 06:27
Except that those sections of the Dark Angels that are running their own private little Inquisition most definitely do not want the Inquisition getting wind of the Primarch-sized skeleton in the closet. In 3rd edition, the 'Hunt the Fallen' special rules were suspended if an Inquisitor was present.

Argastes has the truth of it, imo. Space Marines are not built with the mindset of an Inquisitor.

Sekhmet
12-10-2007, 06:29
Say, for example, a Marine is a part of a chapter who specializes in covert warfare. Where the Blood Angels' first company wears jump packs as often as terminator armor, maybe this chapters' first company wears scout armor as often as terminator armor.

It's unlikely, but not a far stretch at all.

Then, say said chapter is mostly wiped out because.. well.. they don't have 3+ saves.. and they came up against a heavy bolter or two.

Now let's assume that one of the survivors served a term in the Death Watch and also is a librarian. Wouldn't this marine be an almost perfect inquisitor? Loyalty to the Imperium, mental and physical fortitude, extensive knowledge of combat, infiltration and aliens, a potent psyker, no remaining loyalties to any specific organization within the Imperium (his chapter is wiped out)... Of course first class intelligence because of the learning a marine librarian must go through, and thinking outside the box as well as leadership experience that comes with a command position with in the chapter.

Vaulkhar
12-10-2007, 06:35
Not really. Anyone who failed to realise that his opponent was fielding S5 AP4 weaponry would have shown a lack of investigative ability utterly at odds with being an Inquisitor :)

Besides, Inquisitors have to be generally able to blend in with human society where necessary. A seven foot six inch tall, heavily muscled superman tends to stand out in a crowd.

starlight
12-10-2007, 06:41
I would agree that it would be *unlikely*, however given that caveat, it might be possible.

I'd think most likely in the *renegade-ex-Deathwatch-cum-vigilate-Inquisitor-type* variety rather than a true *Inquisitor*, but it is possible that a highly ranked or talented Marine *could* command enough power to wage a private war.

Whether they *would* is for your background writing skills to determine. ;)

mistformsquirrel
12-10-2007, 07:20
Not really. Anyone who failed to realise that his opponent was fielding S5 AP4 weaponry would have shown a lack of investigative ability utterly at odds with being an Inquisitor :)

Besides, Inquisitors have to be generally able to blend in with human society where necessary. A seven foot six inch tall, heavily muscled superman tends to stand out in a crowd.

This made me giggle lol <x,x>

Just the image in my head of a Marine Captain thumbing through "Codex: Space Marines" to see what the AP is on a Heavy Bolter.

"Turn back guys, we gotta get our power armor. Stupid AP4."

Brother Loki
12-10-2007, 13:13
The idea of a marine being seconded to an Inquisitor's retinue is perfectly feasable, and nothing new, for example Lexandro of the Imperial Fists in the Inquisition War trilogy. Deathwatch members would be pretty good candidates for this I should think.

However, I think that the marine mindset is probably really unsuited to the more subtle aspects of inqusitorial duties, so an actual marine Inquisitor is pretty unlikely.

Adra
12-10-2007, 14:21
Couple of things.

Like everyone says, SM dont really fit the mould of an Inquisitor. Combat is one thing but an Inquisitor must have many faces and often its anything but fighting.

Also, what makes you think a chapter would let it happen? The loaning of Marines to the =I= is a long held tradition and bound by articles of honour, but giving up an mamber of the chapter forever to another branch of the Imperium, a branch that is untrusted by SM in general, would seem to be highly unlikely for a chapter to agree to.

The only way i can see it as possible is if a chapter was being dismantled due to heavy losses and intergrated into other chapters (as sometimes happens) then maybe a new recruit who has not undergone psychoindocrination could be taken by the =I= and trained up as an inquisitor....highly unlikely but possible.

as for taking a full SM and making him one? no i think so unlikely as to be pointless.

Sister_Sin
12-10-2007, 14:44
Of course, to skew things further there's the Horus Heresy series and what happens to the remaining loyal Death Guard when they arrive in the Sol system. It can be read as implying the Inquisition was started by Astartes. Of course there are other ways of reading it. Since GW has said they have no canon per se, it is entirely possible, if a stretch to explain.

Sister Sin

Cry of the Wind
12-10-2007, 15:03
A Marine should never become an Inquisitor proper. All their training has to deal with war and battle; an Inquisitor is not a combat master (though they may be skilled at fighting, it is not their role). A Space Marine wouldn't make a very good investigator in any event (being a giant super human makes you stand out in a crowd) and I can't think of a reason why an Inquisitor would take on a Marine as an acolyte. An Inquisitor is going to want to recruit someone who will be able to do all aspects of the job, not just run in guns blazing (as that probably won't work very well most of the time). If anything I’m sure more often than not an Inquisitor will look at a Marine as a tool to complete his work rather than someone he would think to make an acolyte.

I suggest you read up on the Inquisition a bit more as it is very interesting, there is a great supplement to Inquisitor, The Thorians: Faction Sourcebook and you can download it for free here (http://www.specialist-games.com/inquisitor/rulebook.asp).

I am well aware of the various 'canon' debates out there but this is something that I can't help but feel falls into the realm of not even plausible just because of the nature of Space Marines and their relationship with the Inquisition (as well as the way the Inquisition works and recruits).

Edit: Sister_Sin, the Inquisition was founded because of the actions of four humans, two of which are named, Promeus and Moriana. They were the first radicals and the reason the Inquisition was formed was to hunt them down.

DantesInferno
12-10-2007, 15:03
Of course, to skew things further there's the Horus Heresy series and what happens to the remaining loyal Death Guard when they arrive in the Sol system. It can be read as implying the Inquisition was started by Astartes.

Having Garro et al be the founding fathers of the Grey Knights seems to make more sense as a hypothesis there....

Cry of the Wind
12-10-2007, 15:13
Yeah, the founding of the Grey Knights is a much more interesting and plausible idea, especially since we know nothing about their founding, unlike the Inquisition.

Sister_Sin
12-10-2007, 16:07
I like him a Grey Knight progenitor myself, although they are 2nd Founding or thereabouts if memory serves. While I personally wouldn't postulate such a background for a Space Marine, in an infinite universe, all things are not only possible but probable, as a pointy eared alien once said. ;)

There is no true canon according to GW, so whatever anyone wants to imagine is fair game..although trying to tabletop it or make rules, that's an entirely different creature. Getting others to accept such a thing, well there's an uphill battle from the start at the very best.

Sister Sin

trigger
12-10-2007, 17:03
in a retenue - posably for a short time
be a inquisitor- NO space marines loyalty is to there chapter , if he was to find out the inqusistion were looking into said chapter there would be some serious problems

Cry of the Wind
12-10-2007, 17:22
in an infinite universe, all things are not only possible but probable


There is no true canon according to GW, so whatever anyone wants to imagine is fair game

The only problem with this line of thinking is that it can lead to things like the Hello Kitty Marines being taken as a serious Chapter...after all it could happen... Some limits have to be imposed otherwise you are no longer in the 40k universe at all and are in one that is entirely of your own making (though heavily based on 40k ideas).

Finding and agreeing on those limits is something we'll never be able to do as a community unless GW changes their attitude towards canon. It's the one thing I wish GW would work on just as much as the holy grail of game balance, we don't need all secrets to be revealed, just some harder ground to base our own fluff on.

Phunting
13-10-2007, 00:36
I like him a Grey Knight progenitor myself, although they are 2nd Founding or thereabouts if memory serves.They were 666th founding, which doesn't quite fit with the retconned Garro founding theme.

Even odder because of course being a Biblical refernece, 666 has no special meaning at all in the 40K universe!

starlight
13-10-2007, 00:43
They are *Chapter* 666, but their *Founding* isn't recorded *officially* beyond a note of *around the time of the Second Founding*.

Eisen
13-10-2007, 01:37
Actually, there's at least one apocryphal note of an SM becoming an Inquisitor - a Black Templar Chaplain on loan, apparently. Though the 7', brooding brute factor makes it kind of weird.

http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/blacktemplars/gaming/campaigns/initiationrites/interlude1.htm

Apologies for any bizarreties created by my not knowing how to imbed the link.

Mandrathrax
13-10-2007, 06:25
I think that perhaps a Space Marine could become, at least temporarily, a member of a retinue. Remember Ragnar's Claw(the space wolf guy)? He came pretty close.

In a campaign against orks, a Space Marine inquisitor would really fit in, as long as he remembers to carry around a green can of paint. 7' tall superman painted green is pretty much your average Nob. And really, when are the orks subtle? never. Space Marines often aren't the most subtle beings, but if i could call your attention to the Soul Drinkers, they are relatively stealthy, and a lot more so than orks.

Mandrathrax
13-10-2007, 06:29
in a retenue - posably for a short time
be a inquisitor- NO space marines loyalty is to there chapter , if he was to find out the inqusistion were looking into said chapter there would be some serious problems

Inquisitors always eff around with marines. Once again, i'll point out Ragnar's claw the second (i think) book in the Space Wolves(i think that's the name for it) series.... a whole bunch of them are subservient to the inquisitors, and Ragnar even falls in love with one of them in his own little way! and even when it turned out that they just released a big daemon of nurgle called Lord Botulaz, the Great Wolf really doesn't interfere with them at all. and the wolves are supposed to be headstrong and Scottish! or.... Scandinavian.

Biomass Denial
13-10-2007, 08:09
I reckon an alpha legion marine could pull it off.....or maybe even has ha ha.

Progena
13-10-2007, 17:33
Apart from the obvious fluff barricades, I think a Marine would be better qualified than many actual Inquisitors out there.

Loonies who believe all left-handed people are Chaos-worshippers, should never have been made Inquisitors to begin with.

Mandrathrax
14-10-2007, 00:26
Apart from the obvious fluff barricades, I think a Marine would be better qualified than many actual Inquisitors out there.

Loonies who believe all left-handed people are Chaos-worshippers, should never have been made Inquisitors to begin with.

Well.... come on. "Loonies who believe all left-handed people are Chaos-worshipers".... you're describing everyone in the Imperium here.


I reckon an alpha legion marine could pull it off.....or maybe even has ha ha.

Alpha Legion? That's chaos. The inquisition doesn't like them. probability of Alpha Legionaire teaming up with an Inquisitor: 0.000%

Eisen
14-10-2007, 00:45
Alpha Legion? That's chaos. The inquisition doesn't like them. probability of Alpha Legionaire teaming up with an Inquisitor: 0.000%

Or is it? Of all the Chaos Legions, Alpha Legion is the one most likely to be capable of infiltrating any Imperial organization. With 10,000 years to play with, you could build any kind of crazy, crazy plan, and if the Imperium is willing to welcome Cypher as a wandering preacher-cum-warlord in his "Voice of the Emperor" guise, sneaking a sneaky Marine of sneakiness into an organization already known for its Chaos taint proclivities (before you argue, I have one word - Daemonhost)... well, it's not impossible.

Vaulkhar
14-10-2007, 02:15
Well, it's not beyond the bounds...after all, we did have a Necron Lord in the Ordo Xenos until fairly recently, though I still say the seven foot tall, heavily muscled, spitting acid, etc, etc, is going to pose a few problems.

All they really need is to 'acquire' a rosette or a mandate and go from there.

mistformsquirrel
14-10-2007, 05:44
Waitwaitwait... <o.O> There was a necron lord in the Ordo Xenos!?

... Please explain this one, I hadn't heard of it!

Vaulkhar
14-10-2007, 07:57
The last 'day' of Xenology brings a few unpleasant surprises for the Inquisitor sent to close down the Bestiary. It seems that not only was the Inquisitor who set it up not as dead as was thought, he wasn't as human as was thought either...