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View Full Version : Witch hunters REDUX?!?



angrynippleticks
14-10-2007, 21:27
witch hunters seem out of date to me.

there rhinos are over costed compared to the new ones and so are seraphim sisters

assault marines chaos raptors and storm boys have all had a massive points decrease, seraphim are now more points and weaker

and where are the plastic sisters?

[Glory] Wulf
14-10-2007, 21:30
and where are the plastic sisters?
In our dreams. Sadly GW considers the Witch Hunters not as important as other armies. Yet.

Kasonic
14-10-2007, 21:31
I think Seraphim are appropriately costed. They have many of their own advantages. They're also the same price as Assault Marines, and cheaper than BAs.

Anyway, there have been rumors going around for quite some time that there will be an Inquisition book sometime within the next year, year and a half that covers both the Witch Hunters and the Daemonhunters.

Mojaco
14-10-2007, 21:32
shush. They're a fine army if you know how to use them. Ofcourse they're outdated, but right now Orks, Guard and Necrons (and daemons) need a new book more. And grey knights, but they'll likely come together with your precious sisters.

Slaaneshi Slave
14-10-2007, 21:32
Seraphim are stronger than both Raptors and Storm Boys. For the same price as Assault Marines they get free grenades, Faith, Hit and Run, access to Hand Flamers / Inferno Pistols, and Evisorators. They are still the single best anti-infantry unit in the game.

The_Patriot
14-10-2007, 21:34
Seraphim are stronger than both Raptors and Storm Boys. For the same price as Assault Marines they get free grenades, Faith, Hit and Run, access to Hand Flamers / Inferno Pistols, and Evisorators. They are still the single best anti-infantry unit in the game.

You forgot twin-linked so they can reroll to hits. ;)

Gorbad Ironclaw
14-10-2007, 22:05
Personally I'd much rather have Seraphims than Assault Marines in my army. They are just so much better, even before you start adding in faith points.

Xenocidal Maniac
14-10-2007, 22:11
Personally I'd much rather have Seraphims than Assault Marines in my army. They are just so much better, even before you start adding in faith points.

No offense intended - I am just actually curious.

What makes them better? vs marines, they wound on 5+ yet get wounded on 3+, and they don't have ATSKNF. For the same points, in a straight up fight against assault marines, they are more likely than not gonna lose.

What am I missing?

The_Patriot
14-10-2007, 22:21
No offense intended - I am just actually curious.

What makes them better? vs marines, they wound on 5+ yet get wounded on 3+, and they don't have ATSKNF. For the same points, in a straight up fight against assault marines, they are more likely than not gonna lose.

What am I missing?

Rerolls on to hit, Spirit of the Martyr, Divine Guidance,The Passion, rolling 3d6 for Tests of Faith with VSS, etc...

DarkstarSabre
14-10-2007, 22:22
No offense intended - I am just actually curious.

What makes them better? vs marines, they wound on 5+ yet get wounded on 3+, and they don't have ATSKNF. For the same points, in a straight up fight against assault marines, they are more likely than not gonna lose.

What am I missing?

Faith Points.

Trust me on this.

Faith Points make a world of difference.

Oh, that and Hit and Run.

insaniak
14-10-2007, 22:23
Wulf;2003559']In our dreams. Sadly GW considers the Witch Hunters not as important as other armies. Yet.

The lack of plastic sisters is nothing to do with them being 'less important'... It's simply because they don't want to change the models.

They went through this when the Witch Hunters codex was released. Reproducing the Sisters in plastic would require a redesign, which the studio apparently doesn;t want to do because they like the current models.


Of course, the lacklustre sales have never helped the situation, either.

Slaaneshi Slave
14-10-2007, 22:24
AP1 flamers.

DarkstarSabre
14-10-2007, 22:26
AP1 flamers.


Try 20 sisters rapid firing for AP 1 mass bolter shots.

Oh wargear, how I love you so......

Slaaneshi Slave
14-10-2007, 22:27
I have 7,000 points of Battle Sisters... ;) I must say I have never run a 20 strong squad though, as it seems to run against their most useful skills... 20 give no more faith than 10, and 20 wont fit in a Rhino.

Xenocidal Maniac
14-10-2007, 22:29
Faith Points.

Trust me on this.

Faith Points make a world of difference.

Oh, that and Hit and Run.

Um. Ok. I actually use Sisters of Battle. I've never found the use of Faith Points to be incredibly decisive.

So you use a faith point to cast divine guidance... ok, you killed a couple more marines. But then you've got to roll UNDER the number of sisters in the squad to use the powers that make you unbreakable or give you an invuln save. By that time, if you're still in CC, you've probly been swept or the squad is useless anyway.

I am sure people are gonna tell me that I just don't know how to use sisters, but, I disagree. I think calling Seraphim better than assault marines is overrating them. But I can be convinced otherwise! So show me what they can do.

Slaaneshi Slave
14-10-2007, 22:31
Assault Marines are a combat unit. Seraphim are a shooting unit which uses combat to stay alive. ;)

Burn the unit so there are only a few models left. Charge those models and don't wipe them all out. In his turn Hit and Run away, leaving the Canoness to deal with those you left behind. Repeat.

Xenocidal Maniac
14-10-2007, 22:32
AP1 flamers.

Divine Guidance does not make their flamers AP 1. Any roll to wound of a 6 becomes AP1. One in 6 models hit by a flamer will get AP1.

Not at all the same as AP1 flamers.

DarkstarSabre
14-10-2007, 22:33
*Shrugs*

Faith Points can be evil, evil things when used. Let's not forget that there are items of wargear that you can slap on ICs that can get around the dice rolls and that hit and run also exists for a reason as well.

@Slaaneshi Slave - It's my friend's army that I'm painting for him (I hate red and white....hates it now) and he plans things out so that each squad is at the cap for him to vary as he sees fit in the games. Sure, 10 sister squads are ultimately more tactical...but in an apocalypse scale game having 20 might just let them hold onto an objective a wee bit longer.

The_Patriot
14-10-2007, 22:33
Um. Ok. I actually use Sisters of Battle. I've never found the use of Faith Points to be incredibly decisive.

So you use a faith point to cast divine guidance... ok, you killed a couple more marines. But then you've got to roll UNDER the number of sisters in the squad to use the powers that make you unbreakable or give you an invuln save. By that time, if you're still in CC, you've probly been swept or the squad is useless anyway.

I am sure people are gonna tell me that I just don't know how to use sisters, but, I disagree. I think calling Seraphim better than assault marines is overrating them. But I can be convinced otherwise! So show me what they can do.

You're not accounting for the free Simulcrum Imperialis that a VSS gives you. It allows you to roll 3d6 for tests of faith and pick the best two.

Slaaneshi Slave
14-10-2007, 22:35
Divine Guidance does not make their flamers AP 1. Any roll to wound of a 6 becomes AP1. One in 6 models hit by a flamer will get AP1.

Not at all the same as AP1 flamers.

But AP1 Flamers scares Marine players so much more. :p I love the way they whine on the forums about it. :D

Xenocidal Maniac
14-10-2007, 22:36
Assault Marines are a combat unit. Seraphim are a shooting unit which uses combat to stay alive. ;)

Burn the unit so there are only a few models left. Charge those models and don't wipe them all out. In his turn Hit and Run away, leaving the Canoness to deal with those you left behind. Repeat.

Ok. Interesting. I can see that. And I will be honest, I don't have as much experience with Seraphim as I do with the rest of the Sisters stuff. Maybe it's because I was viewing them as assault elements that I wasn't really willing to give them a fair shake.

I'll give them another go. But I still think saying they're better than assault marines might be overdoing it. Assault Marines are pretty damn hard, and I think could easily wipe a Seraphim squad out if they charge it.

Mojaco
14-10-2007, 22:39
They would, but then the sister player did something wrong :)

Slaaneshi Slave
14-10-2007, 22:43
For you to charge me I would have had to sit them within 18" of your Assault Marines. Its not going to happen. ;) Assault Marines have never made it to my lines in my Mech army. Mech Sisters have so much stuff to wipe Marines out its not even funny. ;)

DarkstarSabre
14-10-2007, 22:44
Exorcists.

Because S8, AP3 wasn't evil enough.

AP1 clearly was the way to go :D

Temprus
14-10-2007, 23:04
I find it interesting that they actually list the SoBs separate from the Inquisition entry in the Apocalypse book while Grey Knights and Death Watch are not.

Slaaneshi Slave
14-10-2007, 23:05
I've never heard of the Grey Knights or Death Watch fighting without the Inquisitions say so, but the Adepta Sororitas fight entire crusades on their own.

DarkstarSabre
14-10-2007, 23:07
That is because the Sisters are seperate from the Inquisition fluffwise.

The Ecclesiarchy is a seperate entity on its own. It merely works with the Ordo Hereticus as opposed to -for- them.

The closest thing to this relationship is the Deathwatch- who are all still members of their own Chapter and are working with the Inquisitor in question for a short while.

BaronDG
14-10-2007, 23:17
I think one of the reasons why we don't need a new codex asap is that it is a very fun codex to play with. It never gets dull.

Adra
14-10-2007, 23:27
The lack of plastic sisters is nothing to do with them being 'less important'... It's simply because they don't want to change the models.

They went through this when the Witch Hunters codex was released. Reproducing the Sisters in plastic would require a redesign, which the studio apparently doesn;t want to do because they like the current models.


Its economics, not aethetics.



Of course, the lacklustre sales have never helped the situation, either.

Thats more like it.

Templar Ben
15-10-2007, 00:08
Agreed. The payback on the new molds would be so long that it wouldn't make financial sense.

fracas
15-10-2007, 02:20
i would rather see SoB in a SoB codex than an Inquisitor one


wouldn't mind a few new metal models to separate celestians from SoB but i highly doubt plastic SoB troopers

Templar Ben
15-10-2007, 02:38
i would rather see SoB in a SoB codex than an Inquisitor one
Is there a reason you think they need their own codex?

wouldn't mind a few new metal models to separate celestians from SoB but i highly doubt plastic SoB troopers
The SoB have the unique problem of being female. Since they can't be used as easily by other armies (the bits from SM can easily be used in CSM for instance) that will mean the release will be much smaller.

DutroX
15-10-2007, 05:57
Even better than a Witch hunters redux would be a Witch hunters, Daemonhunters, AND Xenos Hunters Codex.

TheNZer
15-10-2007, 06:05
I have 7,000 points of Battle Sisters... ;) I must say I have never run a 20 strong squad though, as it seems to run against their most useful skills... 20 give no more faith than 10, and 20 wont fit in a Rhino.

Man who needs to upgrade from Apoc with a force like that :D

Korvos
15-10-2007, 06:43
The witchhunters codex includes Ecclesiarch units such as the priest, the arco-flaggelant, and the penitent engine, then they tack on some Inquisitor stuff. So really its like three in one: Ordo Hereticus, Adepta Sororitas, and Ecclesiarchy. So I wouldn't expect a Adepta Sororitas exclusive codex if I were you. To be honest I think the Witchhunter codex is fine right now.

Ones that really need an update: Dark Eldar and Daemonhunters (it won't happen till the rumored Codex Inquisition though). Imperial Guard could use a new one too, but at least their not 10 years old or using obsolete army special rules :p

fracas
15-10-2007, 13:10
@Templa Ben

they already have their own codex, i rather it be called SoB codex rather than Witchhunters, especially since the Inquisitor codexes may be consolidated into one.

Cannoness Radegunda
15-10-2007, 14:25
Korvos makes a great point - the current WH Codex contains three distinct elements - Sisters, WH Inquisition and Eccles ...;)

The key change I'd make would be to throw in a 3rd HQ option - A Cardinal for example - who would open the 'must have a priest' options. They could effectively be the same stats wise as the HQ Inq but would make taking Archo-Flags and Pengines a bit more attractive choices. Currently you have to take a pesky useless over costed Priest to take either. And who actually needs a priest. The army is a Rapid Fire shoot and scoot army and to take the (questionably) effective counter charge units you need to nerf one of the shoot and scoot units.

That and working out how to make Repentia work .... that would be good.

marv335
15-10-2007, 14:38
But AP1 Flamers scares Marine players so much more. :p I love the way they whine on the forums about it. :D

They don't scare me ;)
I've got a SoB force i've been meaning to sort out.
I had some in 2nd ed. I've got a few boxes on a shelf needing painting.
I might put together 1500pts or so for a laugh.

Captain Micha
15-10-2007, 16:38
If Gw were smart they'd make plastic sisters, after all then there would be carapace armored female guard minis as well!

I think plastic sisters are coming.. I mean come on next year is -allegedly- going to be void of an official smurf dex (of any kind I'm sorry if you can use space marine minis, and the play style of the army changes minimally from codex to codex.. it's the same army)

which as long as I've been involved in 40k is a first. *L*

Can Gw really bring themselves to do a whole year without marines? the skeptic in me says no.

but the xenos/daemon lover in my says I hope so
(Note as De are allegedly the 3rd army coming out next year, my bets are on them getting pushed back for the 'honor' of space puppies, or some other non previously existing codex chapter.. .like salamanders or white scars.... something 'tarded' like that) Note the last two would be kind of neat... except that it killed the DE!

Some guy (UK)
15-10-2007, 17:31
I very much doubt DE will be next year- it was said earlier this year (someone with status, don't ask who, the name escapes me) the design team was barely past/at the concept stage.