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TheNZer
15-10-2007, 05:17
Hey.

I play an infantry IG force backed up with Tanks and Vets.

Being a Teenager money is often quite scarce and buying three Sentinals for my IG force would be quite a commitment as i'm also in need of a Baslisk.

My question is too all the Sentinal players are Sentinals worth there points or Alternatly should I go for some Hllhounds or just drop the ideaa nd buy More tanks.

Thanks for your time.

Dave.

Outlaw289
15-10-2007, 05:20
Unless you take them en masse, no

Die too fast and don't do enough for what you could get for the points

The UnNamed One
15-10-2007, 05:33
Unless you plan on using 6 or 9 of them i wouldnt reccommend them, so if u want to use them, buy the apoc squad with 10 in it, then sell one on E-Bay, or make it into a wreck/ruin

Monospot
15-10-2007, 05:38
Bang for the $, I would go with a Basilisk or a Hellhound rather than 3 Sentinels. Don't get me wrong, I love the little dudes, and I do use them, but I use a Bas or a Hellhound a lot more often. Hellhounds are fantastic for Tyranid and Ork toasting, and Basilisks are good for, well, blowing up everything. Having to choose one over the other based on finance, though, I would favor a Basilisk over the Sentinels.

Xenocidal Maniac
15-10-2007, 06:21
Honestly, if you're tight on money, there are better things you can buy than Sentinels. I would go ahead and get a Basilisk or a Russ if I were you. Sentinels are too expensive both in terms of money and points for what they do. I have 3 of them just because they look cool.

UncleCrazy
15-10-2007, 06:27
I field 4 normally. They will not win you games by shooting that is for sure. But the best use of them is to tarpit fast moving H2H units, yeah the Sentinals will die but it normally takes a few rounds to kill them in H2H, which will buy you time for the rest of your army.

TheOneWithNoName
15-10-2007, 06:56
6 or 9 are not good numbers to put Sentinels in that means you're putting them in squadrons and what happens when enemy target your squadrons? You lose all of your Sents. 1-4 is good.

Admiral Samuel Eden
15-10-2007, 07:15
Sentinels plain suck. I dont use guard but every time I have played against them or seen a game in which they feature they die so quick it just isnt funny without doing a scratch tot he enemy. They are one of the worst units in the game.

Mojaco
15-10-2007, 07:22
I use two and never saw them do anything. They suck. Maybe I should use them solely for objective grabbing and they have a point. Otherwise, no.

Reinholt
15-10-2007, 07:33
Having faced them:

1) Extremely effective if you can field them in non-squadrons. That means each one needs to be shot separately, and they are not high priority targets overall. The sneaky guard player I face off against semi-regularly uses them as 'annoyances'. Hides them to claim table quarters, only exposes them when there are also better targets to shoot at, etc.

2) For cost vs money, however, I concur. If you need a basilisk or a Russ, get those first.

However, don't forget the walkers. They can be good, you just need to be sneaky with them.

utrotaren
15-10-2007, 07:34
well I got 2 multi-las sentinels and they are a real pain for the enemy. Use them as a mobile heavy at range 30". If they have to use anti tank on it, well less on the russ.

graveaccomplice
15-10-2007, 07:40
If the walker has Scouts (I think it does), it's guaranteed to be on the table first turn regardless of mission. It doesn't risk immobilization when moving through rough terrain. It can take better advantage of terrain coverage.


To be honest, it depends on your support and the missions you regularly play.

TheNZer
15-10-2007, 08:03
I normaly Play Annihilate ocasionaly Strategems.

My force has over 40 foot sloggers excluding vets and Rattlings (Rarly sue these guys)

Once I get a Baslisk would should I start aiming for them?

graveaccomplice
15-10-2007, 08:16
I normaly Play Annihilate ocasionaly Strategems.

My force has over 40 foot sloggers excluding vets and Rattlings (Rarly sue these guys)

Once I get a Baslisk would should I start aiming for them?


So you play City Fight?

Sovereign
15-10-2007, 08:44
Hellhounds are great.

1 or 2 Sentinels are OK to fill points and add cheap, annoying scoring units.

Gorbad Ironclaw
15-10-2007, 08:44
Hellhounds. Just because they are an awesome tank and really very good at what they do. Isn't even that expensive either.

Geetarman
15-10-2007, 09:47
Depends on your opponent but I would go bassy vs MEQ armies, or hellhounds for worse save armies.

Or, if your opponent is varied, take a leman and get some small earth magnets and magnetise all the sponson weapons so you can change between hvy bolters/lascannons etc etc...

Gman

Bunnahabhain
15-10-2007, 13:16
In most circumstances, no, they're not worth it. They're too expensive, and far too fragile. Just compare them to war walkers, which are almost identical. For about the same points, the WW gets two weapons, and IIRC, isn't open topped. If they were not open topped, and base cost was about 15pts lower, then they'd work. Reworking the FOc slot to be 1-3/4, but operating individually, not in a squadron would help too.

As cheap annoyance units, especially in City fights, they're not that bad, but then you have the problem that each one you take is a hell-hound you can't take...

Supremearchmarshal
15-10-2007, 13:16
The good thing about Sentinels is that you can always deploy them at start. Otherwise I find their firepower and armour somewhat lacking to justify their points. They're good for annoying your opponent and tying up S 3 assault troops in close combat.

I use one or two in my LatD army, mostly because the army is generally slow and I can deploy the sentinels at start. I also add improved comms to them so I can get my reserves in earlier.

Polonius
15-10-2007, 13:48
I would strongly recommend not buying sentinels. If you really want to try them, proxy some first. They're simply way to expensive to purchase unless you know you want them.

There are some uses for them, to be sure, but they'd be one of the last things I'd buy as a beginning IG player. Stick with troops, tanks, and chimeras. I also really like Rough Riders.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
15-10-2007, 14:32
They have their specific uses.

First of all, we have their weapons options, which obviously gives you some flexibility in which role they perform.

Secondly, in Cityfights, or any other dense terrain game, they are arguably preferable to tanks due to their manouvreability, and the restricted firelanes go some way to mitigating their light armour.

RevEv
15-10-2007, 14:37
Sentinels are harder than many think - I use them in squads of 3 and they can really tie up HtoH squads if you can get them in there. They can be very exposed to lascannon fire, but their scout ability is very useful.

Saying that, to whittle down the shooty units a Basilisk or Russ are a must.

Captain Micha
15-10-2007, 14:48
Trust me.. I'm trying to find a way to get rid of the chicken walker wanna bes from my force. I never realised how horridly vunerable they were until I saw the Eldar codex with their war walkers... not worth wasting your time on trust me. I'm glad I never bought any sentinels as they seem utterly crap compared to awesome things like Hellhounds

Mad Doc Grotsnik
15-10-2007, 15:01
But they aren't. They have a totally seperate tactical application.

They are useful for protecting tanks from Infantry, and Infantry from Tanks. Being a squadron makes them surprisingly tricky to stop.

They are capable of moving through dangerous terrain, and outflanking enemy armour.

eek107
15-10-2007, 15:04
I've had great success with mine. Give 'em lascannons and put them on the flanks and they're great for sniping MCs, Heavy Destroyers, and you can always charge them into CC as a last resort. Anyone who claims they're useless or suck probably hasn't seen them used properly. They won't last if someone decides to shoot them... they're not meant to, same as your regular infantry. What they are good for is taking isolated objectives/table quarters, flanking, and sniping.

Captain Micha
15-10-2007, 15:12
I'm just saying I'm not sure they are worth their point cost.
Anything that goes down to bolter fire ... bolter fire.... (and it's a vehicle)

Polonius
15-10-2007, 15:13
I've had great success with mine. Give 'em lascannons and put them on the flanks and they're great for sniping MCs, Heavy Destroyers, and you can always charge them into CC as a last resort. Anyone who claims they're useless or suck probably hasn't seen them used properly. They won't last if someone decides to shoot them... they're not meant to, same as your regular infantry. What they are good for is taking isolated objectives/table quarters, flanking, and sniping.

While I don't claim that they suck or are useless, I do stand by my statement that they are bad. I've seen them used well, I've seen them used poorly, but I would never recommend using them, simply because they usually fail at the tasks to which they are assigned.

You say to use them to claim isolated objectives. I'm not sure what you meant by isolated, I'm guessing you mean "objectives your opponent has forgotten about." Sentinels are too vulnerable to nearly any objective grabbing unit (fast vehicles, jump packs, deep strikers) to win a conflict over a far flug objective.

I'm guessing you play with lots of terrain, in which case sentinels are better. Their ability to move through terrain and shoot is useful. On too many boards, even those with good terrain, there are a lot of mobile or indirect fireing units that can knock out a lone sentinal.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Flanking." I've tried to flank with my sentinels, what it devolved into was hiding until I had a shot. Not a bad tactic, and it sort of worked, but thre are too many other things I can do with those points and that Fast Attack slot.

eek107
15-10-2007, 15:31
I'm just saying I'm not sure they are worth their point cost.
Anything that goes down to bolter fire ... bolter fire.... (and it's a vehicle)

Well, you get what you pay for. At 50-ish points, you don't really expect a very durable vehicle.


While I don't claim that they suck or are useless, I do stand by my statement that they are bad. I've seen them used well, I've seen them used poorly, but I would never recommend using them, simply because they usually fail at the tasks to which they are assigned.

Depends what they're being assigned to do. They are quite a specialised unit, and there are A LOT of tasks they simply can't do, I'll admit that.


You say to use them to claim isolated objectives. I'm not sure what you meant by isolated, I'm guessing you mean "objectives your opponent has forgotten about." Sentinels are too vulnerable to nearly any objective grabbing unit (fast vehicles, jump packs, deep strikers) to win a conflict over a far flug objective.

Pretty much, forgotten ones or ones that the opponent simply can't reach or doesn't assign much force into taking. Two or three could at least contest it should one of the units you described be there.


I'm guessing you play with lots of terrain, in which case sentinels are better. Their ability to move through terrain and shoot is useful. On too many boards, even those with good terrain, there are a lot of mobile or indirect fireing units that can knock out a lone sentinal.

Yeah, generally we use somewhere between 1/4 and 1/3 of the table taken up by terrain, which helps them last longer.


I'm not sure what you mean by "Flanking." I've tried to flank with my sentinels, what it devolved into was hiding until I had a shot. Not a bad tactic, and it sort of worked, but thre are too many other things I can do with those points and that Fast Attack slot.

That's one of the keys to using them, they shouldn't be exposed to fire unless they're shooting themselves. Flanking, as I use them, is having them advance along the edges of the field to get round the sides and/or rear of the enemy as they advance. So they either stop/divert to take care of the sentinels, or leave them alone and let them offer some supporting fire.

The thing is, sentinels are expected to die. It should be a pleasant surprise if they survive a full 6 turns. But they're cheap, which is why they're good. 50-ish points each maximum is pretty good for a vehicle which can scout, move through terrain and have the weapon options to take on pretty much any target. But I guess they're not for everyone.

Captain Micha
15-10-2007, 15:36
war walkers are just as expensive and pack the same benefits with more fire power than you can shake a stick at... kinda hard not to feel the sentinel is at least a -little- lacking... maybe not give it more fire power but give it more armor?

Yes I know the tired old gw "They are balanced within their codexes" no no they aren't..... anything a sentinel can do for the most part I can name a unit that does it's job in the codex -better-

explorator
15-10-2007, 15:38
Deep Striking two Las-cannon Sentinels behind enemy lines can earn their points back quickly, and just the threat of them deep-striking may impact your opponents tactics. Over-all they are too vulnerable for use on the front lines, so when not deep-striking they should be held back and try to get some value from sniping or claiming a table-quarter.

Polonius
15-10-2007, 15:44
Here's my question: would anybody object to the statement "Sentinels have specialized and varied uses, all of which require a high learning curve, and newer players will generally get better results with other units."

I think that as the OP asked if they were worth it, an answer to that question would be useful. My answer is a little indirect, but I think that a qualified "no" is more helpful to newer IG players than a qualified "yes" would be.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
15-10-2007, 15:50
I'd agree with that Polonius.

A Basilisk is probably a wiser early investment, but Sentinels are definitely worth having at your disposal.

sephiroth87
15-10-2007, 15:56
In my regular guard army, I run 3 of them in separate slots (2 fast attack choices and one in HQ unit) along with a hellhound. I usually run them all together. The combination of a hellhound and 3 individual sentinels on a flank usually does really well.

Sentinels are cheap throwaway units that shoot pretty well. The trick to running them is to put them beside a bigger threat that they can assist. A hellhound is usually a bigger threat than 3 individual sentinels. But they both move and shoot, which means they'll shoot first at whatever they're going after and there will be plenty of return fire from my stuff due to the individual sentinels and hellhound working together.

I also sometimes stick one in a corner for a backup scoring unit. Sentinels excel at hiding in corners the same way grots and small units of ratling snipers do. They're cheap and when used in tandem with a more expensive unit to grab quarters, they'll be there until it's too late to kill them. When you have a leman russ tank sitting hull down and a lone sentinel hiding behind trees, your fast unit or indirect fire unit has to take two turns to kill both units, and by that time, one of the guard units will be shooting back, likely damaging or killing the opposing unit. And indirect fire is not exactly known for its ability to hit lone models reliably. If my opponent is using indirect fire to whack a lone sentinel, he's not shooting the heavy weapons teams and basilisks. I'm quite satisfied with providing a sentinel as a target for indirect fire.

The guard is about redundancy. You should be taking quarters, shooting, and doing everything else with multiple units at a time.

With that said, sentinels would be much better at about 10 points cheaper for the base model.

razormasticator
15-10-2007, 15:56
I love my sentinels. Granted they do get roached quickly, but for the above referenced purposes that Mad Dock Grotsnik has outlined they are useful and cool as hell to put on the battlefield. That being said, I would rather start out with a hellhound. But thats just my two cents.

eek107
15-10-2007, 15:58
Here's my question: would anybody object to the statement "Sentinels have specialized and varied uses, all of which require a high learning curve, and newer players will generally get better results with other units."

I think that as the OP asked if they were worth it, an answer to that question would be useful. My answer is a little indirect, but I think that a qualified "no" is more helpful to newer IG players than a qualified "yes" would be.

Agreed, that would be a good answer. Tanks first.

Bookwrak
15-10-2007, 16:01
Move and shoot laser cannons can always be useful. Keeping them hanging around at the limit of their shooting range keeps them safe from bolters, and generally, there are going to be higher priority targets closer, at least until you've popped a couple things with their lascannons. Multilasers are also rather unappreciated, and having the option of tying up weak units in CC that can't actually hurt Sentinels can be useful, but that generally means getting them closer to the rest of the enemy than they should go.

I'll agree about them having a high learning curve.

Sephtar II
15-10-2007, 16:18
I find them to be very useful in city fights especialy with heavy flamers, also people dont expect to see huge numbers of tanks so dont take huge numbers of anti tank weapons so they tend to make a good account of themselves.

UncleCrazy
15-10-2007, 16:22
A sentinel is not a Dreadnaught and is not a tank, and such should not be treated as one. It is a scouting unit which should use terrain to hide behind till it is ready to come out. With a multilaser it is a 45 pts mini and will 3 shoots at str 6. Using it right you shoud be able to get side armor shoots on tanks or a few extra shoots on things like Whirlwinds which hide. I have held up a 20 man squad of Chaos Marines for 4 turns with 2 sentinels. Charging a assualt unit with Sentinels is one of the most evil things you can do with most assualt squads have str 4 or less. That armor 10 means that you have one unit that is a real problem in H2H, beatible yes, but also hard to kill.

Ruroni
15-10-2007, 16:22
the bassie and the hellhound are better for sure, but sentinels still do have merit. I find that 48 inch weapons like lascannons are best. stay back and pick at tanks, and only their long rangers can reach you, which they then have to choose, shoot their most likely high str weapons at your little armor 10 sentinels? or the tanks? Both are a threat to them.

Ozendorph
15-10-2007, 17:47
As a guy that recently purchased an Emperor's Talon set (hasn't arrived yet), this thread is a bit of a downer.

I'm using them primarily for thematic reasons (knight world men-at-arms) so I'm not too hung up on the effectiveness of walkers vs. other unit choices. That said, It'd be nice to see the buggers earn their keep now and then. What do you guys think of the formation bonuses they receive for Apocalypse?

Hlokk
15-10-2007, 17:57
I don't rate loads of them, but one can provide you with a very mobile lascannon.

I tend to use them in a support role with another tank. Sentinal, being AV10, stays behind/ to the blindside of the tank (IE: Russ/Demolisher), and is used to counter any armoured threat to the tank. Being a move and shoot weapon, its fairly handy when you consider that other non-tank mounted lascannons have to remain still to fire, so if your moving your tanks a lot, their a definite use.

Aside from that, I also rate multilasers as a support weapon in smaller games. Given most of the games I tend to play are around 500-700pts, the sentinal really does come into a class of its own.

Polonius
15-10-2007, 18:05
The emperor's talon isn't a horrible datasheet, but it's not top rate either (much like the freaking sentinel in the first place....)

I'm personally annoyed because I have 9 sentinels, and the thing requires 10. I'm sure I can scrounge another 2nd edition one somewhere, but it's a pretty minor advantage to spend $20 on.

I see two major uses for the formation: deploy them forward, enjoy some re-rolls when moving through terrain, and force the enemy to either shoot at cheap units, or face a hurricane of return fire, essentially treating the formation like a 500pt one shot unit that can muck things up for a turn or two.

Alternativly, you can deploy a few squadrons forward for rerolls (or even just one) and keep the rest deep for lascannon support.

Finally, I see keeping the entire formation deep in the backfield or strategic reserve. Use them to snipe weak side/rear armor, to tie up non-fist units, etc, or simply keep them around and use Redeployment to drop 4 units on an objective on the last turn.

TheOverlord
15-10-2007, 18:06
I dunno, I can't say they're useless, but I can't say they are the best thing since toast bread with butter, but they are pretty good if you know exactly what you want to do with them, and stick them to their jobs. My friend uses only 2 of them in a normal game, using them to harass tanks from the side armor with your scout movements, setting them up with autocannons to the flanks and line up some juicy targets from the side, or using scout movement to move into buildings if there are no particularly juicy targets to fire at.

They also do well as a line blocker when push comes to shove. Throw them into a fist fight with a huge number of orks or gaunts and watch as they helplessly stay there for the rest of the game unable to touch the walker *this works better if there aren't any powerfists/klaws in the group, so if you're gonna try this, do it smartly*, this also works pretty well with marine assault troops too tight on points to spend on powerfists. You can hold them off indefinitely, depending on how lucky the guy is. Not only must he wound you on a 6, he needs to roll a 6 to take you out of combat, as any other result still allows you to take them on.

But if you're going to compare them with a bassie or a hellhound, then go for either one of them, though I prefer a basilisk, as it can take on almost anyone and still come out pretty good, whilst a hellhound really is only quite specific to certain armies (a melta totting chaos army is NOT one of them). With low funds, the basilisk will be your saviour, but this tends to be fairly boring, bombarding targets half the board away the entire game is SO WW1 >< Unless, of course, you prefer that.

Sentinels are definitely worth taking if you like them enough to use them properly and tactically, but if relatively, the Basilisk wins, hands down.

sigur
15-10-2007, 18:26
Sentinels are a nice thing to get if you have the points left. They are semi-mobile, can keep S3-units in close combat and even kill stuff here and there. Don't build up your tactics on them but they make a nice distraction. If not sure what to get, Sentinels or a Basilisk, go for the Basilisk though.

Ruroni
15-10-2007, 18:26
Apoc really throws all the old rules out the window though. How about 10 flank marching or redeploying heavy flamer sentinels vs nids or another horde?

Max1mum
15-10-2007, 18:27
i could say more off the same regarding Play style, tactics. .this or that.

but everything in that range has been said.

And i just have them because they are so Cool..

They just look awesome on the battlefield ^-^

The star wars empire walkers always had a fan with me :P.

razormasticator
15-10-2007, 18:45
Apoc really throws all the old rules out the window though. How about 10 flank marching or redeploying heavy flamer sentinels vs nids or another horde?

Autocannons would make nice synapse sized bug hunter in that same tactical strategy.

Xenocidal Maniac
15-10-2007, 18:49
As a guy that recently purchased an Emperor's Talon set (hasn't arrived yet), this thread is a bit of a downer.

I'm using them primarily for thematic reasons (knight world men-at-arms) so I'm not too hung up on the effectiveness of walkers vs. other unit choices. That said, It'd be nice to see the buggers earn their keep now and then. What do you guys think of the formation bonuses they receive for Apocalypse?

That is an awesome boxed set, so don't feel bad at all about buying it!!

Ok, maybe Sentinels aren't the most powerful unit in 40k, but how awesome is seeing 10 of them march down the tabletop? They are undeniably cool, and that's all that matters.

In fact, as soon as I saw that boxed set, I almost snapped it up myself! :)

Wyndstar
15-10-2007, 19:27
Sentinals require practice to use effectively. They are much like Dark Eldar in that respect. However, they can be worth their pts. as long as they have a defined roll in the army that is not "anti tank fire soak". I've a friend that uses 12 sentinals in an army along with 3 LRs, and those 15 vehicles can cause all sorts of headaches. Here are the best tactics I've seen:

1. Used in squads of three with lascannons or autocannons in support of a Russ. Basically the sentinals block the side and rear armor of the russ and advance with it, providing anti tank fire. The autocannons work better against skimmers, the lascannons against tracked tanks and heavy infantry. The whole unit of four vehicles advances, usually along a flank, and provides pretty good fire support. A turn or two of extra fire from the extra lascannons can turn a fight against a mech heavy opponent, and with a range advantage this unit doesn't often get close to 24" S4 fire for a few turns. Even if several sentinals die, typically they become terrain which can block side and rear armor to the Russ for the rest of the game. Also, if you play the sentinals slightly farther back than the russ (but still along the side armor) enemy units will have to make a target priority check to not shoot at the russ anyway. In a way, you get a russ that can move and fire its battle cannon and 3 lascannons, with 3 (weaker) structure points, for about an extra 150 pts.

2. The all multilaser drop guard. Depending on the pts. cost you are playing at, groups of 2 or three sentinals with multilasers in an all plasma drop guard army. The sentinals provide average flak fire on the turn they come in, and are yet another cheap unit that clogs the field for your opponent to worry about. When possible, after a turn of firing, use the sentinals to get into hand to hand with anything the plasma is wasted on (marine scouts, dire avengers, etc.) to keep them from firing at your plasma squads. Just last weekend I lost a close game against a drop guard plasma army that used 9 multilaser drop sentinals.... because he dropped his sentinals to shoot up my landspeeder squadrons, and then with multiple units so deep in my deployment zone was able to create crossfire problems for my predators, always able to get side/rear armor shots. He lost 7 sentinals, but they made about 3 times their pts back.

3. The 12 pack. If you take a few in your command squad, this is my least favorite way as an opponent to face sentinals. Basically, my opponent takes 9-12, gives them all lascannons, and piles them up on the flank he wants to harass (as fast attack, they place last, plus get a scout move). 9-12 lascannons that can move and fire out at 48" on a flank can ruin someone's day, even at BS 3. With most of your formation already deployed, you kind of have to respect the firepower. The thing is, most things with the range to hurt the sentinals lurking on the flank board edge are vulnerable to all those lascannons. If you ignore them/ refuse the flank, they walk up the flank and provide consistent cover fire at 48". It takes a good amount of armor diverted towards them to take down this ultra annoying 450 pts. Just a thorn in your side. Sure, fast moving troops with bolters CAN take them out, but you still need 6s to glance, and if you get too close they will move, fire and charge. If there is decent terrain on the board, this is just murder to face with some armies.

4. The solo objective grabbers. Taken as individual units with a flamer or multilaser, the point of this unit isn't to do anything but grab objectives. At only 40 pts it is a waste for most of your units to spend a turn of shooting taking it down. It usually gets ignored, and in turns 5-6 when you try and deal with it, a few unlucky glance rolls and they still count as scoring and complete their objective. This is my favorite configuration of sentinals to face as an opponent, because I typically CAN deal with them at some point.

5. The cityfight 9-12. If you know you will be fighting cityfight ahead of time, 9-12 sentinals with multilasers can cause all sorts of problems. I've watched groups of these units take out whole genestealer units. You are looking at a real decent flak fire combo that can harass other armor that doesn't navigate the terrain as well. Multilasers are your best choice in a cover/terrain heavy environment anyway, and in squads of three have a very decent chance of even tying up decent hand to hand units for a few rounds. Want to keep those Wych squads from objectives? This unit is perfect as a tarpit. They will lose to heavy rending (usually 6s are auto pen) and multiple power fist type troops, but they shouldn't be acting alone. They need the support of infantry units. Surround their base with cheap guard if you want to preserve the multilaser fire, or have plasma heavy units shadow them and use the sentinals to tie up HtH threats to your plasma troops.


To be really effective, you need at least 6 (3 units of 2 with multilasers in a drop army) in my experience of facing them. Go in with 2 or 3, and they will struggle to do anything. Still - at around 50 pts, that one game in three where you pop a monolith on the second turn and you still earn your pts back overall. In large packs operating together (#3 above) or with sufficient support units (#1, #2) they can add a unique and powerful feature to guard armies. They are one of the best and cheapest options guard can take as a solely anti-skimmer force (multilaser packs/autocannon packs).... and in an army of statues add some mobile flexibility. They should never be in the front of your line, and you need to use terrain/supporting troops/range/tactics to limit incoming fire as they are fragile. But used right, they can be game winners.

Hope that helps,
- Wyndstar


Edit - As far as the comparison with war walkers, they are worse, but there is an important difference. War walkers take up a heavy slot, so you can't take 9 war walkers in support of 3 falcons. If you take them, that IS your heavy support. In a guard army, you can use sentinals to support your heavy support. Do they win a matchup with eldar war walkers? No. But they take a different slot, and that is an important difference.

Double Edit - And don't forget, if they ever actually cause a wound in hand to hand so that they win combat, they count as 30 models. That can be an annoying surprise for an enemy that thought they were taking on a cake unit.

srgt. gak
15-10-2007, 19:47
idk they work fine for me . I had a single sentinel (cadian pattern) with a hunter killer missle stalk into a full squad of termies and take them down two at a time it was really funny. plus my model looks like its swing its cannon to slap someone. it then shot its missle and blew up their land raider next turn.

edit
i forgot to tell u to use them in squads of three to destroy tanks while a storm troopers squad deals with infantry and objectives

boogle
15-10-2007, 20:22
In small games, using 4 single Sentinels is very useful, because as has been said before they suffer from the Squadrons rule, all i'll say is avoid Heavy Flamers, unless playing COD or Jungle terrain

Escaflowne_Z
15-10-2007, 20:36
I have a lascannon sentinel that I've used just once. Did OK.

I have three autocannon sentinels. I've used them 5 or 6 times. They do very well. Mobility is lacking in my Guard army, since I only have 1 Chimera and deepstrike only 1 unit of stormtroopers.

Reasons to like them:

1) cheap, mobile firepower.
2) other players underrate their firepower.
3) Scout rule.
4) In certain instances, they can make excellent tarpit units. Gaunts, small genestealer broods, non-powerfist marines squads. Also, they are excellent at holding up single monstrous creatures. When a single model unit attacks a vehicle squadron, that model can only attack one of the vehicles at a time. I've killed a greater daemon with three autocannon sentinels using this tarpit strategy. S6 is the highest strength in CC for the Guard. How do you get it? A very vulnerable Guardsman officer that gets expensive quickly, or a 40-60 point sentinel.

Higgen
15-10-2007, 20:37
Ozendorph, don't worry about it. Sentinels will be fantastic units in Apocalypse. I've been trying for nigh on a year now to fit Sentinels into my Guard list. I try and I try and I try but it never seems to work out. However, I have found that they begin to become viable units once you hit the 1850 point mark. When you get there you can generally take enough backbone to support a little splurging on units like Sentinels. Multiply that up to Apocalypse level and the glorious chickenwalkers will be right at home. In fact, my only planned Apocalypse purchase for a year is going to be an Emporer's Talon Recon group. I just love the models so very much.

The problem is simply that for 40+ points in armies below 1850, I can always find something that does the same job, only better. Sentinels with Heavy Flamers? Conscripts are generally a better choice. Two Sentinels with Multilasers? A Fire Support Squad with 3 Heavy Bolters is cheaper, more survivable, and does more damage. Or if you're deep striking it, look into a 75 point Hardened Vet Squad with 3 Plasma Guns. It's going to do more damage for less points. Autocannon? Again, Fire Support Squad or Deepstriking Hardened Vets. Lascannon?! One shot on a highly vulnerable 55 point model...only going to be worth it if you hide it in a table corner, at which point you may as well buy, you guessed it, an Anti Tank squad. The only thing I'll grant is that they're great at tying up Gaunts and Orks. I know some people say they're good at tying up Space Marines, but I've never had any luck with that.

However, once you fill up your elite and Support slots you start to have to take into account the price of Heavy Weapons Platoons, which are not as cheap or reliable as HQ support squads. They're also not as fun, and once you hit 1850, you can afford a little fluff!

Changes I hope they make to Sentinels:
-Reduce base points by 10.
-Chosen as one unit, but operate independently.
-Give them 2 attacks base and drop them to Initiative 2. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to have time to kick twice, even if they are slow and cumbersome in CC. Maybe they're executing a flying drop kick.

Edit: I want to thank Wyndstar for his post. I have to say that I have never used more than 3 Sentinels in a game, but keep in mind that they've all been 1850 or below. I'm going to try some of those tactics in Apocalypse. Also, as another bonus to Sentinels, they're not a terrible place for Hunter Killer missiles.

fwacho
15-10-2007, 20:40
Sentinal are great. I love mine. I run anywhere from three to six. that being said. you have to run at least 3 or none. They work particularly well if you already have some other tanks out there. Don't be stupid by putting Lascannons on them as you will be sorely disappointed. Mulitlasers or auto cannons are the way to go. you may put some hunter killers on them if you need a little more anti-tank. (just make sure to put th hunterkillers on each models (remember you need 3 to guaruntee one hit. ) give them hardened fighters and they'll even do some damge in CC. Scout rule is a huge help and the mutlilasers are great for picking off light vehilces. Plus they only tend to attrat fire fi your opponent has nothing else to shoot at.

you'll need to spread them as much as you can in the FOC chart (don't forget the one attached to the HQ).

A basalisk is good but it will be hunted down. The hell hound will draw so much fire it's insane. If you want a hell hound you'll need two just to make sure one actually gets to shoot.

Wyndstar
15-10-2007, 23:58
Edit: I want to thank Wyndstar for his post. I have to say that I have never used more than 3 Sentinels in a game, but keep in mind that they've all been 1850 or below.

Hey, no problem. When I play 2000 pts. is the most common matchup by far, although lately I've been having a lot of 2500 pt. games. At that many points, massed sentinals becomes a much more common guard tactic.

- Wyndstar

srgt. gak
16-10-2007, 00:21
I find that all tanks get all the attention from your oppent. I had one guy shoot every weapon he had at my lemon russ and it was even imbolie behind a building where it couldnt shoot anything

RexTalon
16-10-2007, 00:31
I use 6 sentinels in big games. Every time some smart **** thinks he's going to assault my sentinel, a little voice in the back of my head says, "Go right ahead you dumb ****!"

Then he spends 2 or 3 turns trying to kill it. It very quickly makes up for it's points by just standing up for another turn or three. A couple days ago, a sentinel of mine spent two turns toe to toe with a winged tyrant. When the tyrant was dead, my sentinel walked away to blast a few more enemies. The sentinel tied it up long enough for an Eversor assassin to come to it's aid.

paddyalexander
16-10-2007, 00:38
My favourate sentinel moments are when str3 enemies close to within assualt range :-). In a pure drop troops list they're essential as they allow you to take improved comms and heavy weapons that can fire on the turn they arrive.

In a regualr list they provide a good mobile fire platform to back up your static infantry & tanks.

In cities of death they're great as they move as infantry and can take heavy flamers for next to nothing points.

boogle
16-10-2007, 00:41
my Elysians were 2000 strong and i always used 9 (3 MM Sentinels, 3 HB Sentinels and 2 Rocket Pod/1 Missile Launcher Support Sentinel Squadron), the Drop Sentinels did ok, but i had minimal luck with the RP/ML ones

Xenocidal Maniac
16-10-2007, 03:37
Double Edit - And don't forget, if they ever actually cause a wound in hand to hand so that they win combat, they count as 30 models. That can be an annoying surprise for an enemy that thought they were taking on a cake unit.

Actually, a squadron of 3 would count as 15 models. Each sentinel counts as 5 models, not 10. Still pretty good! Just FYI.

Tulun
16-10-2007, 03:44
I don't think their as bad as people might say... I do think they are certainly harder to use, because of their light armor.

Couple of nice things...
a) Always deploy.
b) Can move and shoot. Yay!

I would say the best way to field sentinels is with lots of other armor on the board (leman russ, Demolishers), and to give them guns that'll keep them far back. Force anti-tank weapons on these things, if possible, because it'll either force them to...
Ignore them.
Or take shots they could be taking on a Leman russ.

Of course, that's my opinion...

TheNZer
16-10-2007, 05:09
Thanks for advice guys I think i'll Take a Bassy then a Hell hound and then when i expand to 3000pts go for some sentinals.

razormasticator
16-10-2007, 14:37
That sounds like a good plan. I love my sentinels, but rarely are they the only thing on the board ya know.

All of the above is sound advice, because they can pressure the flanks nicely.

razormasticator
16-10-2007, 14:41
That is an awesome boxed set, so don't feel bad at all about buying it!!

Ok, maybe Sentinels aren't the most powerful unit in 40k, but how awesome is seeing 10 of them march down the tabletop? They are undeniably cool, and that's all that matters.

In fact, as soon as I saw that boxed set, I almost snapped it up myself! :)

Yeah, I already own 5 sentinels and want this boxed set.

TheNZer
17-10-2007, 03:53
Now 15 Sentinals on the Table would be pretty cool.

Looking into things i'll probebly be able to spare enough money to buy a Sentinal for my Army so i'll test it out then decide whether to buy more.

Thanks for Tactical advice.

azimaith
17-10-2007, 04:04
I've found that sentinels combined with deep striking are quite formidable. Singular squads of 1 excel at nailing squads with a heavy flamer or when i'm running my elysians I like to use three heavy bolter sentinels (in a squad) and two one man multi-melta sentinels (one with improved comms). The multi-meltas deep strike to within 12" and the heavy bolters deploy where needed to provide a good deal of fire support.

Sentinels aren't bad, they're somewhat overpriced, yes, but even with that they aren't a terrible choice. When you don't use them with deep strike however their ability is curtailed quite a bit.