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Imperialis_Dominatus
16-10-2007, 00:03
Hey;

There are several bones I have to pick with the Defiler. Firstly, it's easy to argue as to where to target it. A lot of people will try to target a leg, or vice versa say that's not viable as you must target the hull of a vehicle. I think a base for the Defiler would solve this issue nicely- it would basically be just a base under the main body of the Defiler, and one would draw LOS to it, as vehicles have LoS drawn to their base; hull if they don't have one.

Second, the Defiler as it stands doesn't fit my fluff.

Thirdly, a Dreadnought does, but man are they volatile.

Now, the solution to all this that came to me was to convert a Dreadnought into a Defiler and use it as a counts-as Defiler.

Firstly, I'm wondering what you consider to be better configurations. I prefer the 2 extra DCCW configuration, idea being to rush forward firing and rip **** up in CC. Or perhaps keep the 2x Heavy Flamer?

Secondly, curious if you think this idea is viable rules-wise. Should I mount it on a larger base? I plan to anyway, but w/e.

Thirdly, if you have any tips for converting a battle cannon dread arm, that would be sweet. I want it to look like it has enough ammo without looking overbalanced.

Dragonlover
16-10-2007, 00:13
1) I say go with 2 DCCW's, mostly because you can't give it 2 heavy flamers.
2) Rules wise, no idea. The Defiler I'm currently working on I've removed the 'Dread body' from cos it's a pain to transport and I wanted to sculpt some stuff onto it. This has made it about the height of a Dread though.
3) Just stick it on the side. I always got the feeling the shells were produced by the daemon anyway.Alternatively, remove the Dread faceplate and sculpt the cannon in there.

Dragonlover

Imperialis_Dominatus
16-10-2007, 03:22
1) I say go with 2 DCCW's, mostly because you can't give it 2 heavy flamers.

By 2X I meant the twin linked heavy flamer it comes with. Could put one HF on each arm and do it that way. Definitely gonna at least replace the Reaper cause of the Defiler's BS. Probably the flamers too though in retrospect; it's free and it's not like I really want to use another weapon save the Battle Cannon and the CC bits.


2) Rules wise, no idea. The Defiler I'm currently working on I've removed the 'Dread body' from cos it's a pain to transport and I wanted to sculpt some stuff onto it. This has made it about the height of a Dread though.

Yeah, I can see how the model would be a pain. Yet another reason...


3) Just stick it on the side. I always got the feeling the shells were produced by the daemon anyway.Alternatively, remove the Dread faceplate and sculpt the cannon in there.

Thinking something along these lines. I'm going to give it two DCCW, the Battle Cannon, and count the feet as DCCW.

Penitent
16-10-2007, 03:30
Would your conversion be about the same height and width of a Defiler? If not, I can imagine alot of players crying foul.

Aside from the fact that it can no longer indirect fire, the Defiler's other disadvantage is how big it is, and therefore not-screenable, and difficult to hide.

Imperialis_Dominatus
16-10-2007, 03:35
Would your conversion be about the same height and width of a Defiler? If not, I can imagine alot of players crying foul.

Aside from the fact that it can no longer indirect fire, the Defiler's other disadvantage is how big it is, and therefore not-screenable, and difficult to hide.

IIRC the 'hull' of the Defiler does not include the legs, but the body, so yeah, I'd be the same width as the targetable part. As for height... I don't know, I could put him on a rock or something.

Besides, if he's lower he can't always see you. It's a little bit of a tradeoff.

I'ma go check the FAQ though.

EDIT: As many people as I see arguing about it, there is no mention of it in the FAQ. Maybe when it comes out for this Codex.

Clang
16-10-2007, 05:03
I like the idea of a dread which is the size of and counts as a Defiler, but suspect a dread kit will not be easy to convert, it's just too small, especially those little legs. Personally I'd try converting a defiler kit to a dread shape instead, e.g. create a four-legged dread (by somehow shortening the legs), using the defiler 'turret' as the main torso and putting all the weapons on the 'arms'.

Draconian Lord
16-10-2007, 05:19
Just so you all know, the Defiler is a walker, so by all the rules, it is required to have a base to represent the area it takes up and because it can be locked into close combat... all measurements for a model with a base are determined from the base (for determining LOS and range)

Got that nice tidbit from every rules person @ GW.

Imperialis_Dominatus
16-10-2007, 05:23
How many based Defilers have we all seen, out of curiousity? My tally is at... uhh... zero.:angel:

the1stpip
16-10-2007, 07:40
Does it matter too much about the height?

Do you use wysiwyg or do you use the height restrictions in the book, in which case it is height 3...

Imperialis_Dominatus
16-10-2007, 07:59
Exactly what I thought. Plus it needs a base anyway, and it fits my fluff. Won't order this one for a while though... sadly my bank account can't take too many more 'ideas...'

As for how I'll do it though, I plan to use two close combat arms and stick the assault cannon arm on one side, and modify it with some brass tubing and GS to make a battle cannon. Overall it will be basically a Dread with 2 DCCW (4 with its feet), a Battle Cannon, and Fleet. Big change, huh?

Eulenspiegel
16-10-2007, 10:19
Imperialis_Dominatus, I donīt follow your reasoning that the Defilerīs legs canīt be shot at.

In my opinion theyīre quite large and substantial, and also considerably increase the footprint of the model, that Iīd say if I saw a Defilerīs leg, that vehicle is a viable target.

What youīre trying to do really seems like creating a smaller and more easily concealed Battlecannon.
My apologies if thatīs not the reason, but you see my point: if I think that, others may, too.

If you want an alternative model for the Defiler, build something that is at least just as large.

Imperialis_Dominatus
16-10-2007, 10:29
Apology accepted.

Suppose I could build the damn thing on a base that covers that big of an area.

But IIRC, the ruling I speak of came out how it did because of modeling possibilities and the lack of a base for the Defiler (GW's mistake). The legs can be positioned in many ridiculous manners as to avoid targeting. The same way I seem to be. While substantial, they are not in standard positions as the hull is.

I don't have a reference for this though, so I can see where the suspicion comes from. I shall await the FAQ for the Chaos Codex. If it does not address it I shall be unpleasantly surprised; in the meantime and on that occasion I shall try to extract a ruling from someone at the 'Roolzboyz,' however faulty their constancy seems to be.

Don't worry about offending me. This is one of the reasons I posted this idea, as I knew this would come up and I wanted to, if possible, find a definitive ruling than my apparent hearsay.

And in the end it's a fluff thing. If it proves inviable, it's not like the Chaos codex has limited Heavy Support selections.