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View Full Version : Apocalypse - Short term wonder or here to stay?



andyfair
16-10-2007, 15:45
Quite a few people have spent a lot of money on Apocalypse already. And certainly in the GW stores over the weekend the young hobbyists seemed to be enjoying it greatly. So my question is do you think Apocalypse is here to stay and will revolutionise 40K play permanently or do you think it will quickly be forgotten about after a few months and 40K play will revert back to normal?

Marinox
16-10-2007, 16:06
i think it'll always be around to some degree. mega battles are fun and apocalypse enhances that.

but from my view and among us in my group it'll be an occasional thing.

though i do look foward to the ebay market being flooded with stuff here in a few months. i'm just gonna camp ebay and wait for the buyer remorse to set in and see what i can scoop up.

Hulkster
16-10-2007, 16:07
it is far to early to say

give it 6 months, after the XMAS rush, we will be able to tell then

Killgore
16-10-2007, 16:20
it depends on local gamers and their reactions to it

some areas are apocomad others hate it

boreas
16-10-2007, 16:23
I don't know overall, but my gaming group has always enjoyed 4000+ pts per side battles, so Apocalypse will be used pretty much all time time (just as CoD is pretty much the only way we play now). Of course, we'll not always be using Legendary stuff, Titans and datasheets, but I feel the strategic assets will add so much fun and diversity (after all, once you've played 10+ games of WH vs Nids, you get some redundancy) that we'll keep using them. Maybe even combine them with CoD Stratagems (imagine a 2 vs 2 game with 2 Strategic assets and 2 CoD stratagems per side!).


Phil

Latro_
16-10-2007, 16:24
Well like all GW subgames:

City fight (the original). After a year or so it kinda fizzled out
Cities of death: Still here, bolstered by the plastic kits. However not as 'lets play CoD' every game.

I cant see the time and effort needed to run an apoc game forever changing 40k, I expect in 6 months people will go back to playing more practical 1000-1500pt games and leave apoc as a 'if we have time and space/can be arsed' affair

Durath
16-10-2007, 16:26
Quite a few people have spent a lot of money on Apocalypse already. And certainly in the GW stores over the weekend the young hobbyists seemed to be enjoying it greatly. So my question is do you think Apocalypse is here to stay and will revolutionise 40K play permanently or do you think it will quickly be forgotten about after a few months and 40K play will revert back to normal?

Apocalypse offers the next logical step in the gaming hobby. It extends those 2000 point tournament armies into a playable force if you continue to collect models.

Further, integrating the Apocalypse rules into a persistent campaign is ALOT easier than the standard 40k rules.

Stingray_tm
16-10-2007, 16:29
It will be the same as with Cities of Death.
That means: No.

Only constant support by GW could prevent this but as soon as the next supplement comes out, Apocalypse will be the same as Cities of Death: A small hyperlink on the GW page.

Merceus
16-10-2007, 16:30
I see what you mean, CoD and Lustria are never played down here anymore... and with all the effort someone has to go to to get there stuff to our local store, well it seems hardly worth it...

But I still think that every month or two there'll be an Apocalypse game for people to gawk at, hopefully Ill be playing one of em...

ChaosMaster
16-10-2007, 16:31
I hope it's here to stay. Codex Apocalypse is the BEST thing to EVER happen to Warhammer 40,000, and I've seen it all since the Rogue Trader days. Apocalypse is just too much fun! I know other 40K "vets" who feel the same way as well. Good job, GW!

Penitent
16-10-2007, 16:32
I think Apoc will stick around, though it won't be as played a few months from now. I do think it will have more appeal than CoD; I, at least, find something more appealing about massed, epic scale armies than I do urban fights.

VetSgtNamaan
16-10-2007, 16:33
I suspect it will be a flash in the pan. While the kits I think will continue to sell as long as they are produced for most people I think the time requirements for set up, play and tear down will be too much for thier schedules to handle. So it will become a once in a bluemoon holiday weekend sort of thing.

I know in my local area there is plenty of talk about the large battles but we really have yet to actually do much appart from a 6k a side pre apocalypse battle.

Bookwrak
16-10-2007, 16:33
It's here to stay, because whenever there's a megabattle, those are the rules that'll be used. However, right now, there are a lot more games of it because everyone wants to give it a try.

Merceus
16-10-2007, 16:37
I'm still waiting for a chance to try it just one on one (or even just two on two) as that is my prefered style of gaming... fun, friendly one on ones, too many people and it gets confusing and nobody knows whats happening...

The Song of Spears
16-10-2007, 16:38
I don't know how any of you could think this was a temporary thing.

People have been playing mega battles for the entirety of 40k's lifespan. People will continue to play megabattles and apocalypse gives them the rules to make those mega battles better, more fun for everyone.

Sure sure, people wont play them all the time, but the games will go on forever and will be better now that GW has put some mechanics in place to organize big battles.
apocalypse has always been here, GW just gave it a name: Megabattle Club.

Galatan
16-10-2007, 16:39
Uptill now I've only heard great reactions about apoc, the thing is that organising a apoc battle can be a big undertaking and you have to dedicate most of your evening for it. I think apoc will be a suc6, but it will only be played by most every few months or so.

Cheers,
Galatan

rintinglen
16-10-2007, 16:41
I have to concur with those who say that it will be a sometime thing, albeit a persistent one. Mega battles are fun, but deploying thirty or more units is just too time consuming, next month we are having a "million point" battle and I am on the hook for 20K, which will mean all my space marines, my IG, some of my DH and both Baneblades (If I get them put together in time). That will be a once in my lifetime event--it will take three trips to the car to haul them all in.

Durath
16-10-2007, 16:44
I don't know how any of you could think this was a temporary thing.

People have been playing mega battles for the entirety of 40k's lifespan. People will continue to play megabattles and apocalypse gives them the rules to make those mega battles better, more fun for everyone.

Sure sure, people wont play them all the time, but the games will go on forever and will be better now that GW has put some mechanics in place to organize big battles.
apocalypse has always been here, GW just gave it a name: Megabattle Club.

Well said.

ChaosMaster
16-10-2007, 16:47
I played a 6,000 point game with a friend last weekend with 4 super-heavies and tons of regular troops and vehicles. It was way too much fun! Even mega-battles I've played in, something I don't usually do, have been fun with Apocalypse rules.

Wraithbored
16-10-2007, 16:58
For me it will definitely will be, competitive play makes me retch and Apocalypse is all about big narrative battles.

Brother Loki
16-10-2007, 17:04
I think it will eperience a few months of popularity and then die down, but not actually disappear. By its very nature its not going to replace regular games. I see it as something clubs and shops will do once every couple of months.

I think its worth saying that I don't tihnk the chaos that you got at the weekend release games, can really qualify as Apocalypse games. To me, Apocalypse doesn't mean dozens of people turn up wth random stuff and see who can shout loudest, it means someone creates a themed scenario (perhaps the climax of an ongoing campaign) and people bring planned, themed armies. I think that's the way it will work best, and will be the way it evolves when the initial frenzy has died down.

I also think a lot of the concepts will make it into 40k in the future - strategems/assets are something I like a lot, and are a good way of ensuring games don't all play out the same.

TzeentchForPresident
16-10-2007, 18:18
It is like saying Forgeworld, short term wonder or here to stay? Your first thought seeing their prices and the fact that their models required your opponents permition to field was that they would sell very little and the price of making those models will ruin them.

But since ForgeWorld is still around so will Apocalypse. We have fought 3000+ points battles before with over or without superheavies. Apocalypse just are doing such battles more common.

Ozendorph
16-10-2007, 18:23
Apocalypse will definitely remain in our group. There's just no good reason not to use the supplement if you're playing a big game, which we are fond of doing. Also, the lack of FOC is a big hit in these parts, as we've all been playing well before the existence of such shackles.

Adept
16-10-2007, 18:33
It's definitely here to stay. Of course it won't continue to be the flavour of the day as it currently is, but large battles have always been a feature in almost everyones gaming career, and will continue to be.

Apocalypse is really just a way of clarifying the way these games play best, and ways to universally help gamers get all their models on the table and maintain a modicum of balance. The GW guys have repeatedly stated that Apocalypse games should not be played frequently; they require a good deal of planning and forethought, not to mention space and time! They should (and I daresay will be) run on an infrequent, every couple of months sort of time table, just like many clubs already run mega-battles.

From now on in, I expect every time someone plays a 3,000pt+ game, they will bust out the Apocalypse book.

brightblade
16-10-2007, 18:48
currently halfway through first apoc game. finishing tomorrow night. hmmmm. not sure. i think it really depends on your opponent. it is ripe for abuse which can remove some of the fun. love having vbig armies, love getting all my models out. don't like putting them straight away again due to some dirty little trick that would otherwise not be allowed in a 'normal' game.
think so far the tactics that are useful are limited and it seems to be about who has the most big guns. i prefer maneuvering games. so i am a liitle bored by it. just having loads of heavy bolters shooting me up then loads of templates blowing me up is sooooo tedious and not how i get my fun.
mind you it might all turn around tomorrow and then see my tune change!
however, i can see myself being too bored by it to carry on if every game is like this one.

edit; think the guy i am playing is power gaming me. whereas i just picked all my nice models.

UncleCrazy
16-10-2007, 18:51
As with Cities of Death, Apocalypse will be played to spill off the "normal" games. Me and my friends have been doing a lot of City fighting here lately.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
16-10-2007, 18:53
And bizzarely, unlike Cityfight, Apocalypse requires a substantial investment from most parties.

Thus, people will want to get their monies worth!

brightblade
16-10-2007, 18:56
city fight is my favourite. i think that apocalyse will become one of those twice a year things in my group. whereas city fighting with smaller and smaller armies is the way i would like to go.

foehammer888
16-10-2007, 19:36
I think the sucess of Apocalypse, much like cities of death, will depend on your gaming group. Some clubs who didn't buy much into cities of death hardly play it. Others, like several around here, purchased the rules and several of the terrain sets, and as a result the rules are used quite frequently. I love cities of death. Previously it never made sense to me that in this dark, gothic future where "there is only war", so many battles take place on grassy country-sides. Gritty battles amist city ruins just seems more fitting. I do have complaints about CoD however, which hopefully GW will not repeat with apocalypse. I think GW should have released 1-2 new army-themed building kits with each new codex, to help support the CoD idea further. Hopefully GW will continue to support apoc going forward.

Basically, it all boils down to your gaming group. If your group sees nothing in apocalypse but the potential for abuse (be that for or against abusing the rules), it will likely die out quickly in your area. If your group invests in some apoc formation boxed sets and possibly communal templates, has a few events for building terrain and objective/strategem markers, and perhaps has contests for designing new Apoc scenarios, it will stick around for a long time.

Its a game supplement which relies HEAVILY on friendly communication and interaction among the hobbiests. It will not and cannot succeed on its own.


Foehammer

Trinary
16-10-2007, 19:36
It is here to stay in the same way Cities of Death is here to stay... As a basic rules modifcation rather then a serperate game, GW does not need to provide support for it in the way it deos 40K or Fantasy in general. Further, it lends itself well to GW's existing megabattle event structure.

Not everyone will continue to play it (or even love it). However, a lot of veteran players have way too many points to use regularly, just sitting on shelves. That is incentive enough to play off and on as the mood strikes.

Natjack
16-10-2007, 20:16
I think it will be here to stay. It doesnt require any investment over and above a normal army cos two people can join together to field an apoc army so 2 vs 2 games are there with regular 40k sized forces.
What makes it fun are the mad setup rules the strategems the template weapons and getting all your toys out :).

What makes it really fun is seeing your flank marched penitant engine charge into the rear of a bane blade and kill it in one turn of melee combat

cthorpe
16-10-2007, 20:46
I think it is here to stay.. because it re-introduces the FUN element to WH40k..

Tournament play was the death to the spirit of the original Rogue Trader feel to the game.. this is now back.. its nice to see people around a table smiling laughing and talking..

Enjoy your games.. long live Apocalypse..

Carl

Dio´Ra
16-10-2007, 20:53
its here to stay but it will be rare due to the time you need to do a good appocalypse battle.

but before appocalypse we played big games and now we have good rules to them, so basicly we will see maybe due to these rules an increase of big battles.

now just think what for rules hell it would be using CoD, Appocalypse and the upcoming dropzone for one mega battle :D

expansions are allways to stay, it gives flavour to the game and you are not obliged to play them allways because its the latest new thing from GW.

MemphisMark
16-10-2007, 20:56
I think Apocalypse will be played more often than CoD, but less often than regular 40k. I like the fact that I can deploy my entire army on one battlefield, and I like the strategms. But then again, I play bigger battles than this with Epic.

I'm part of a weekly GW club, and I can see us routinely playing under Apocalypse rules, so it could go on indefinitely. Time will tell. I've put a lot of money into Apocalypse stuff (Gamers Backpack, Baneblade, Suppression Force) so I would like to play it a lot.

CoD wasn't a big investment, just the book and tokens, so this isn't a big thing with me. Although on a big enough table, you could mix CoD and Apocalypse if you put a city in one corner.

In the end, I think it will hang around for a long time to come.

newpaintbrush
16-10-2007, 21:00
i think it'll always be around to some degree. mega battles are fun and apocalypse enhances that.

but from my view and among us in my group it'll be an occasional thing.

though i do look foward to the ebay market being flooded with stuff here in a few months. i'm just gonna camp ebay and wait for the buyer remorse to set in and see what i can scoop up.


Hm, I can see that I have been cloned. :confused:

Or maybe *I* am the clone. :wtf:

Stingray_tm
16-10-2007, 21:21
I think it is here to stay.. because it re-introduces the FUN element to WH40k..


I simply don't understand people, who say such things. FUN(tm) in WH40k never went away. At least not the way i and my group are playing it. It comes down to the players not to the game. An ******* will still be an ******* in Apocalypse and try to win no matter what, but now he has even more loopholes to exploit.

Do you really need official rules of "how to have fun"? Sorry, i just don't get it. Around here we are playing 40K with balanced and fluffy lists and scenarios. Why is it impossible to do this with 40K for some people?

foehammer888
16-10-2007, 21:54
There is one part of Apocalypse which I have yet to test, but I believe will have an impact on the game.

We have seen battlereports of 10k and more points per side. How much fun is it with 3k a side? The minimum needed for an Apocalypse game. If it plays well at that level, then it is easily possible to play apocalypse games in only a few hours with only 2 people. Many gamers have an army that big, or can expand with a single formation.

Foehammer

boogle
16-10-2007, 22:00
I believe it will be here to stay, it's what Veterans have been waiting so long for

Marinox
16-10-2007, 22:04
Hm, I can see that I have been cloned. :confused:

Or maybe *I* am the clone. :wtf:

or maybe we're both just poor ??? :p

i don't know if "fun" is the right word. i think "cinematic" might be a better word. after reading the book, it seem to me that it was designed to be SPECTACULAR. and the game balance and design was an after thought.

max the dog
16-10-2007, 22:07
I'll be the waffler here and say that apocalypse in it's current form won't be nearly as popular in another year and in two you won't find very many people playing it BUT huge portions of it will find it's way in the next edition of 40K rules.
I'd say expect tactical assets to become a pernament fixture of the games. And expect that the standard FOC might change to something more closely resembling the special combat formations that are a huge part of apocalypse. I also think that game will push wins to be primarily based upon objectives claimed not kill count.

Well that's all IMHO so ignore me if you'd like.

Eigolas
16-10-2007, 22:38
I'd say it will be here to stay but then again, quite a few of my friends (and myself) have started up 40k again because of Apocalypse.
Over in Manchester GW it is proving to be rather popular and the manager said about running an Apocalypse gaming evening on Fridays but it depends on how popular it is overall really, i have read lots of greatly varying opinions on Apoc.

Khornies & milk
16-10-2007, 22:49
A definitive YES.
My group have already extended our CoD board to 9' x 4.5', with another 4.5' x 4.5' added to 1 side with room to do the same for the other side if required.
Just working on some really cool heavily themed Objective Markers for each list, so a bit of work to do there.
There are at least 60K worth of points we can utilize, and if we keep each side to 4-5K, then we can play heaps of games with quite a bit of variety in our lists for a long time to come.
It will not be something that will lose its interest around here.

Vaktathi
16-10-2007, 23:10
To be honest, I think it will end up being a "three or four times a year" thing as opposed to even a monthly event for most people, but I do see Apocalypse sticking around for a while.