PDA

View Full Version : Toughest infantry in the game



boogaloo
16-10-2007, 20:28
I've hear alot of falcon bashing lately so this one is restricted to Infantry. In the recent falcon/raider thread i read somebody say that termies are the toughest, but i would think immortals are slightly tougher.

here's why.
Ap2 can still be breached.
WBB is better than feel no pain because you can force more saves than there are members in the unit. If you have 2 squads of ten immortals and a res orb, you can only force 10 wbb rolls, whereas in a squad of 10 plague marines you can cause as many feel no pain rolls as they fail armour saves.

Toughness five and a 3+save is just bonus

Granted immortals don't have the offensive capabilities as termies, but toughness is unparallelled

The Song of Spears
16-10-2007, 20:40
i dunno. I would say it still prolly the new plague marines.

at only 23 points pop they are 5 points less than a immortal, and while they can be forced to take more saves, points wise says you have more of them there in the first place and they are fearless, so they stick around after a lot of punishment. plus in CC they get 2 attacks, can have a hidden powerfist, plasmaguns or meltas, none of which the immortals can have...

new DG ftw. :p

Ruroni
16-10-2007, 20:47
DG for the reasons SoS mentioned

Ozendorph
16-10-2007, 20:50
Don't forget Blight Grenades as well. Plague Marines endure.

UltimateNagash
16-10-2007, 21:08
Chaos Terminators with MoT :evilgrin: IMO...

Latro_
16-10-2007, 21:27
halequins,
they're not tough in meat, but you can never shoot the bloody gits so they're even arder

Tulun
16-10-2007, 21:30
In shear resilience, I'd say Immortals still win.

FNP is ignorable rather easily, while WBB is not (res orb whee). As well, you can potentially re-roll WBB.

On their own, they are about the same, with Nurgle maybe getting a slight edge because they are cheaper. But Immortals are BASE T5... so they even get their WBB against more weapons than Nurgle does.

Toss up between these 2 buggers I'd say on their own, but no question with support. Necron Warriors aren't far behind, because they are tough and cheap to boot.

Durath
16-10-2007, 21:31
i dunno. I would say it still prolly the new plague marines.

at only 23 points pop they are 5 points less than a immortal, and while they can be forced to take more saves, points wise says you have more of them there in the first place and they are fearless, so they stick around after a lot of punishment. plus in CC they get 2 attacks, can have a hidden powerfist, plasmaguns or meltas, none of which the immortals can have...

new DG ftw. :p

Absolutely, Plague Terminators are disgusting (see what I did there?).

They definately outrank Immortals, but I am going to make an argument that Tzeentch Terminators are tougher. Their 50% invulnerable save helps better against AP2 weapons which by-pass the toughness of terminator armor.

redbaron998
16-10-2007, 21:31
I must speak well of my Eldar

WraithGuard as tough as nails.

Packing a T 6, 3+ AS, with a 5+ CS from the warlock. If you throw Fortune on top of this then you could walk a 10 man unit up the center of the field and they could take a whole armies worth of Firepower adn keep on trucking

Also the fact that they carry around one of the strongest weapons in teh game is pretty intense...but yea they are frekin expensive and thier guns are short ranged, but still very powerful


For cost though I say the Death Guard Plauge Marines

boogle
16-10-2007, 21:34
New Plague Marines, or Possessed with MOT and a good roll on the Daemonkin table (i got FNP 1st time i used them, they were NAILS)

Xenocidal Maniac
16-10-2007, 21:42
Point for point, it's still the standard space marine.

[SD] Bob Plisskin
16-10-2007, 21:43
Wraithguard with Fortune and that warlock cover save power! Although they are useless at doing anything other than holding objectives!

boogle
16-10-2007, 21:46
however TOF would make it easy to take out the Warlock in a Wraithguard squad

Tulun
16-10-2007, 21:51
Point for point, it's still the standard space marine.

I'd say the Necron Warrior surpasses the Marine point for point in resilience :) (the extra points for their improved bolter and WBB... yowsa!)

SwordJon
16-10-2007, 21:51
Point for point, it's still the standard chaos marine.

Fix'd that for ya ;)

Triggerdog
16-10-2007, 21:55
I must speak well of my Eldar

WraithGuard as tough as nails.

Packing a T 6, 3+ AS, with a 5+ CS from the warlock. If you throw Fortune on top of this then you could walk a 10 man unit up the center of the field and they could take a whole armies worth of Firepower adn keep on trucking

Also the fact that they carry around one of the strongest weapons in teh game is pretty intense...but yea they are frekin expensive and thier guns are short ranged, but still very powerful




I agree, Wraithguard take the cake especially if they have a warlock with enhance or conceal.

And you can easily counter act the range of their weapons by putting them in a transport.

LususNaturae
16-10-2007, 21:57
I think the toughest infantry unsupported would be the new plauge marines. w/o rez orb, FNP is better than WBB cuz if you wipe all 10 immortals, then you dont get the WBB for any of them (so many people forget this)

as mentioned in previous posts, when supported, other infantry can easily surpass the plague marines. Immortals w/ Lord, Wraithguard w/ conceal/fortune, ect

Wyndstar
16-10-2007, 22:08
Well, it depends on what you mean by toughest. Do pts. matter? If not, give me 10 terminator aspiring champions of khorne, half with power fists and half with lightning claws. That's 55 armor ignoring attacks on a charge, with the flexibility to hit high toughness targets but still rip through hordes.

Point for point. I think it is very close between a 23 pt. plague marine, a 33 pt. khorne terminator and a 33.5 pt. tzeentch terminator. 34 point Nurgle terms aren't bad, but are generally beaten by the Khorne terms. And Khorne terms en masse eat things like 10 man harlie or 10 man stealer units for lunch.

- Wyndstar

Killgore
16-10-2007, 22:13
Wraithguard, T6 with a warlock with conceal, very nasty nasty.

Gen.Steiner
16-10-2007, 22:20
Grot mobz!

...

What?

Colonel Stagler
16-10-2007, 22:20
Plague marines, or Tzeench termies
defo

empireguard
16-10-2007, 22:26
Your all wrong Its guard.

Ok I'm just seeing if you awake, I guess Wraithguard.

The_Patriot
16-10-2007, 22:32
Seraphim or Battle Sisters with Spirit of the Martyr. :D

Thoth62
16-10-2007, 22:39
however TOF would make it easy to take out the Warlock in a Wraithguard squad

Lies. ;)

If your opponent is taken a decently large unit, it's darn near impossible. Toughness 6 isn't all that easy to crack, especially when most of your weaponry is strength 4. You'd need to roll a butt load of 6's to wound, to have to force that ToF save.

One of the most effective ways of doing that would be to get in rapid fire range. And as soon as you do that, you're exposing your troops to those deadly guns the wraithguard carry.

Overall, I'd have to say the wraithguard are the toughest, but point for point, I'll cast my vote with the plague marines.

Gen.Steiner
16-10-2007, 22:43
Grot Mobz! It's clearly Grot Mobz, I don't know why you're all denying the truth.

Laughingmonk
16-10-2007, 23:02
Fortuned Seer council I think is still irritatingly hard to kill.

Failing that, guard with chameoline is so stupidly hard shift out of cover it's not even funny.

LususNaturae
16-10-2007, 23:06
100 spinegaunts....ever tried to kill 100 spinegaunts?

Xenocidal Maniac
16-10-2007, 23:06
I'd say the Necron Warrior surpasses the Marine point for point in resilience :) (the extra points for their improved bolter and WBB... yowsa!)


Fix'd that for ya ;)

You both forgot about ATSKNF. For 15 points, that rule, along with their good statline and armor save, is what makes the standard space marine the most resilient troop in the game.

Gen.Steiner
16-10-2007, 23:09
100 spinegaunts....ever tried to kill 100 spinegaunts?

Pfft, ever tried to kill 180 grots? It ain't pretty. Or easy.

Stella Cadente
16-10-2007, 23:23
Guardsmen, there easily the toughest, what other basic infantryman can kill a terminator without breaking a sweat?, NONE

Gen.Steiner
16-10-2007, 23:27
Grots can.

boogaloo
16-10-2007, 23:42
as an eldar player i'd LOVE to agree that wraithguard are the toughest unit in the game, but... ever lost 6 in one go to a battle cannon?. 5+ don't help much against that, immortals still get their WBB, plague marines don't get their FNP, but those tzeentch termies still get their 2+:O but i'm not convinced i'm still leaning towards the immortals.... LOL WAIT WHAT AM I SAYING!?!?! the nightbringer for sure. 5 T8 wounds four plus invuln, the ability to to IGNORE armour saves of ALL sorts, ie insta kill Ahriman himself with no saves allowed (S10) a 4+ invuln and the ability to push all engaged models 6" back BEFORE blows are struck. YEP definitely the nightbringer.

Gen.Steiner
16-10-2007, 23:46
Aaaand the Nightbringer isn't infantry, it's a god. :p

Techron 2.0
16-10-2007, 23:58
oh i think its Necron Immortals i mean you get toughness 5 with a 3+ armor save and WBB with res orb can roll no matter what. and if alot fail port them through a monolith to reroll the faild WBB tests there awsome. better then Plauge marines i think

Gen.Steiner
17-10-2007, 00:03
Ah, but Immortals rely on two other units. Grots don't. Grots are tough by themselves. Immortals are only tough if there's a Res Orb and/or Monolith.

Curufew
17-10-2007, 00:09
Eldar Pathfinders?(the upgraded one) in Cities of Death
Plague Marines
Immortals( They're pain in the ass. In all the games I played against Necrons, I only took down 1 before)

Gen.Steiner
17-10-2007, 00:18
Immortals are pants. Give me Grots any day.

Defender of Ulthuan
17-10-2007, 00:24
It's either DG or Terminators w/MoT.. 2+As and 4+Is.. not to mention they can deep strike and carry HW like there's no tomarrow.. Lots of attacks and lots of cheezy tank-killing and infantry-killing move-and-shoot-HW-iness. They're both quite good units.. All of Tzeench's power got a boost, and I like it a lot.

Techron 2.0
17-10-2007, 03:23
why grots they die easy. immortals are tough by themselves because in the WBB rule it says that you still get saves against range weapons that dont allow saves its only if its double your T. were you dont which ther T5 which is good. so i still get WBB against lascannon. in the rule it says that any CCW that doesnt allow armor saves the WBB rule is negated and you dont get it unless you have a Res orb around.

Penitent
17-10-2007, 03:43
Immortals are pants. Give me Grots any day.

I'm gonna have to second the grots vote, especially if we're accounting for points value.

One on one, they die in droves, but as a unit, they are numerous and easily able to overwhelm higher-quality units (I cried the one time I lost a Seer Council to lowly grots).

Well...until a template weapon enters the picture...

killa kan kaus
17-10-2007, 04:11
Wbb is pretty tough but.........
Grots rule!

Gen.Steiner
17-10-2007, 09:26
I'm gonna have to second the grots vote, especially if we're accounting for points value.

One on one, they die in droves, but as a unit, they are numerous and easily able to overwhelm higher-quality units (I cried the one time I lost a Seer Council to lowly grots).

Well...until a template weapon enters the picture...

Even then, a template weapon is unlikely to be able to cover all 30 Grots. :p

See? Grots are it! They can take down almost anything and are slightly longer lasting than a horde of Guard Conscripts (second toughest unit in the game). Plus the Slaver has a Power Klaw.

Hellebore
17-10-2007, 09:34
I've destroyed everything from tau to marines, to Prince Yriel with grotz.

Viva la Revolution!

Grot Revolutionary Kommittee ftw

Hellebore

Son of Makuta
17-10-2007, 09:48
32 Gaunts with fleshborers. Rapid fire range? Haharr... eat my S4 living ammunition death... :D

Failing that, Pathfinders in cover. 2+ cover save = unshakeable.

Or Tyrant Guard.

Gen.Steiner
17-10-2007, 10:05
I've destroyed everything from tau to marines, to Prince Yriel with grotz.

Viva la Revolution!

Grot Revolutionary Kommittee ftw

Hellebore

Da Red Grot iz pleezed wif yoo, komrade!

tau4ever
17-10-2007, 10:21
However crazy it sounds, I have to agree with Steiner if we're talking about the toughest infantry SQUAD in the game. 30 grots lead by a slaver with Rokkit launcha and power klaw is rough. especially at 100 something points.

Gen.Steiner
17-10-2007, 10:36
Yes! I knew I wasn't just a lone krank! :D

Ironsides
17-10-2007, 10:38
You people are all crazy!... point for point Death Company takes the cake..

Rending, Feel No Pain, bats**t crazy... and FREE:eek:

Wolflord Havoc
17-10-2007, 10:41
Its obviously Wolfguard terminators as you can have them equipped with Wolftooth Necklace (always hits in HTH on 3+) and Runic Charm (Re-Roll first failed 'armour' save) and of course they are led by a character. Have 9 of them with 3 Assault cannon 3 Combi-Plasma and 3 Combi-Melta with a healthy mix of power weapons and power fists...the odd t-hammer ??? and a tooled up leader and off you loap. Expensive - I grant you but as this thread was 'toughest' and not 'most cost effective' (otherwise I might agree with Gen. Stiener) I stand by my Wolf Guard.

tau4ever
17-10-2007, 10:42
Yeah, but they're out numbered something like 10/1 by grots, you can't beat that with a powerstick......

Gen.Steiner
17-10-2007, 10:47
And they've got a Power Klaw too! :p

Wolflord Havoc
17-10-2007, 10:51
Ah you see this is the thing with Grots and Conscripts - you start forcing Leadership tests and there off running for the hills..... "Fleeee dere iz ten ov dem...."

I mean 100 + Grots beating 10 Wolfguard terminators would be a herculean feat. It would as unlikely as....as say...the England Rugby team somehow making it to the final of the Rugby World cup and winning it.....hahaha hah ha...... haaaa......oh hang on.....

Gen.Steiner
17-10-2007, 11:07
Pft, if da slava can't keep da Grotz on da feeld den 'e iz not wurf 'is teef. Da git.

setekhite
17-10-2007, 11:40
Ah you see this is the thing with Grots and Conscripts - you start forcing Leadership tests and there off running for the hills..... "Fleeee dere iz ten ov dem...."


Have you seen Grot morale rules?

Slavers have a reasonable Ld, and Squighounds give rerolls. You have to kill a stupid number to produce penalties, and outnumbering is well-nigh impossible. Even when they run, they don't lose their position; they go to ground until the Slaver rallies them.

Conscripts on the other hand will run like 'oomies.

Alx_152
17-10-2007, 11:47
50 conscripts led by a commissar

Perfect Organism
17-10-2007, 11:57
50 conscripts led by a commissar

Yeah, I think conscripts beat grots, so long as they have officers or commisars to support them. Larger units, better toughness and they sometimes get armour saves as well. Against massed lasgun or blasta fire, conscripts are almost twice as survivable as grots for only 33% more points.

Gen.Steiner
17-10-2007, 11:59
Ah, but Grot Mobz don't need any support. Conscripts need an Independent Commissar, which is another unit altogether.

The Grot Mob is self-contained brilliance.

Captain Micha
17-10-2007, 12:22
Easily plague marines. fnp, blight grenades, cheaper.. more weapons

Wbb is easy to deny, too easy infact. you wipe the squad and if it's the only squad of that type of necron in 6" that's it gg no re

Second, probably the Space Marine or the chaos marine. rock hard durability, cheap, and gets alot of heavy guns (which trust me are > gauss I'd easily trade gauss for heavy bolters, plasma, melta, etc etc)

mistformsquirrel
17-10-2007, 12:24
I've destroyed everything from tau to marines, to Prince Yriel with grotz.

Viva la Revolution!

Grot Revolutionary Kommittee ftw

Hellebore

Ninja Grotz ftw!

(Chukkin Stuff!)