PDA

View Full Version : SM are so cool they spit poison and pee acid



codicium_aeternum
16-10-2007, 22:48
they sweat poison too


no but seriously, if you think about the logical course of genetic modification, their kidneys liver and digestive systems would process and re-process their waste that they crap lumps of coal and pee a horribly acidic stuff as all the water has been taken out first (longevity in harsh conditions)

they also spit and sweat poison... well the truly evolved immune system prevents infection by attacking it before it enters the system, thus there are super powerful white blood cells in the saliva and sweat that can survive outside the body and will kill anything that doesnt match the DNA of the originator...



the point of this thread is to see what kind of cool but seemingly missed genetic modifications the SM would have.... i mean super strength and easy clotting/healing is good... but without water, they die so the super kidneys leave almost acidic pee as theres little water in there... heck, would they even need to pee if it was processed down into faeces as theres so little water in....

azimaith
16-10-2007, 23:06
You'll notice that guardsmen can't eat SM food. Thats because Space Marines not only subsist on regular calories but "Awesome". Truly it is an amazing energy source released from little children when they woefully miss the true nature of space marines (as enforcers of a suppressive dictatorial theocracy that makes the nazis look like barney and pals). Its true.

Seriously though, uric acid just doesn't have that low of a pH. Theres going to be water in it (or its going to be like passing salt) and Space Marines are not developed for long term deployments. They are made for optimal performance over a short period of time ( a couple hours to a couple weeks) followed by a quick extraction. There a sports car, not a sedan.

Mr_Rose
16-10-2007, 23:23
Mind you, they do have that anti-poison trance where they go catatonic whilst their hearts pump at 250BPM to force their whole blood stream through their third kidney in order to extract poisons quickly. And since I don't recall anything about processing, that would mean that any major toxin you feed a marine would come out the other end more or less unchanged, so they do occasionally pee poison....

As for acid pee; hardly. Humans excrete urea normally, not uric acid, which is a different compound entirely. In fact, urea is more basic than acidic...uric acid does have quite a low pKa though.

Lastie
17-10-2007, 08:47
Space Marines can absorb the genetic memory of what they eat. Over time, this has led to confused Astartes being confined to their quarters by Apothecaries until they remember they are the supreme warriors of mankind and not certain weat products grown on a nearby agri-world.

Shiakou
17-10-2007, 09:31
Space Marines can absorb the genetic memory of what they eat. Over time, this has led to confused Astartes being confined to their quarters by Apothecaries until they remember they are the supreme warriors of mankind and not certain wheat products grown on a nearby agri-world.

Oh, that is so sig-worthy.

Lord Malorne
17-10-2007, 15:04
Mmmm...i'm a turnip marine in service to khorne the harvest good!

Don't forget marines can consume there own bio waste in times of emergency :eek:

Brother Thuemoose
17-10-2007, 16:51
Don't forget marines can consume there own bio waste in times of emergency :eek:
Doesn't their armour take the waste and convert it into something like a power bar? I've never heard of the marines themselves taking their waste and consuming it straight up.

Templar Ben
17-10-2007, 16:58
Doesn't their armour take the waste and convert it into something like a power bar? I've never heard of the marines themselves taking their waste and consuming it straight up.

Hmmm. Suits that recover waste for the body's needs. Where have I heard that?

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee149/TheSiXXkILLERcORP/catdune-cat.jpg

Echo location would be interesting.

Vaulkhar
17-10-2007, 17:41
Particularly since their body has just gone to a great deal of trouble to get rid of the stuff. Suit reprocessing a must, I think and even then consider it 'emergency use only, after the dog's milk has gone'.

The pestilent 1
17-10-2007, 18:34
I always saw marines as being something like;

"Marines. They kick ass and chew gum. And they're all outta gum. Do-do doo, do-do doo, do-do-do-do do do dooo do-do"

nagash66
17-10-2007, 20:31
I always saw marines as being something like;

"Marines. They kick ass and chew gum. And they're all outta gum. Do-do doo, do-do doo, do-do-do-do do do dooo do-do"

Epic mate, just fething epic

Argastes
17-10-2007, 20:58
Fun Fact: Space Marine's aren't genetically modified.

As for the idea that a Marine's urine would contain little water, that unfortunately doesn't make much sense. Water is present in urine to serve as a medium for the elimination of metabolic byproducts; you have to have enough water in the urine that all the byproducts can be dissolved into it and expelled as a liquid. It would be tricky to "combine" urination with defecation in order to conserve water by crapping out the stuff that's in a normal human's urine, because the urinary tract and digestive tracts are entirely separate and fulfill very different functions. Since the fluff describing marine physiology says nothing about them having the kind of extensive modifications that would be necessary to combine the two processes, I think it's safe to assume they don't. Bottom line: Marines pee just like the rest of us.

superknijn
17-10-2007, 21:04
They might not be genetically modified (well, the Sons of Anteus are, but we're discounting any cursed/bad/evil foundings here), but they're surely genetically re-engineered into some very impressive killing machines. Indeed, without power armour and all the fine equipment, a Marine would still be ten times as lethal as a mere man, I'd say. I mean, multiple hearts, fused ribs; like Klingons, but squared.

Argastes
17-10-2007, 21:09
They might not be genetically modified (well, the Sons of Anteus are, but we're discounting any cursed/bad/evil foundings here), but they're surely genetically re-engineered into some very impressive killing machines. Indeed, without power armour and all the fine equipment, a Marine would still be ten times as lethal as a mere man, I'd say. I mean, multiple hearts, fused ribs; like Klingons, but squared.

??? I completely agree that they're very impressive killing machines with or without their armor, but what does "genetically re-engineered" mean? It sounds like a nonsense term. According to official descriptions of how Space Marines are made, they are not genetically modified, engineered, "re-engineered", or otherwise genetically altered in any way. They are completely genetically unchanged during their transformation into space marines; they are 100% genetically identical to normal humans just like you or I.

Vaulkhar
17-10-2007, 21:41
Except for the standardising of their blood types (a side effect of the Haemastamen and Larramans implants), the addition of an extra heart and lung (and the monkeying needed to ensure not merely tissue rejection but regeneration on injury, complete replacement of the ears and eyes and 13 other implants...ok, how do you do all that without some tinkering at the genetic level?

Besides, would you mind sourcing the 'no genetic modification' claim?

TheSonOfAbbadon
17-10-2007, 21:53
I, being a Star Trek and Warhammer 40k enthusiast, can honestly say a normal, unsuited and unarmed Space Marine could easily take Kahless the First.

Seriously, let's look at the facts:

Space Marines - Klingons - Who wins/loses
Two hearts - One 8-chambered heart - No winner
Two normal lungs and one super lung - Three normal lungs - Space Marine
Solid plates for a ridcage - 23 ribs in a web pattern - Space Marines
Many many many times stronger than a normal person - Quite alot stronger than a human [Batleths are very heavy] - Space Marine
Big bones - Lots of double bones [think the two bones in your forearm] and bony plates - No winner
Spit acid - Used to spit acid, evolved out of it - Space Marine
Two normal kidneys and one special kidney - Unknown, probably just two kidneys - Space Marine [probably]
Can enter a catatonic state to heal themselves - Can have crazy visions of Kahless in fiery caves - Space Marines [visions are cooler though]

Mainly it's the Space Marine's sheer strength that could beat the smeg out of a Klingon, but if you gave a Klingon warrior a Batleth, the Klingon would have a decent chance of winning, considering their skill.

Biomass Denial
17-10-2007, 21:55
There not genetically modified. They have extras put into them but their actual DNA couldnt be change.

Argastes
17-10-2007, 22:00
Except for the standardising of their blood types (a side effect of the Haemastamen and Larramans implants), the addition of an extra heart and lung (and the monkeying needed to ensure not merely tissue rejection but regeneration on injury, complete replacement of the ears and eyes and 13 other implants...ok, how do you do all that without some tinkering at the genetic level?

You do all that by implanting artificial organs. Implanting an organ is not genetic engineering. Every single thing that makes a Space Marine special is the result of an implanted organ or the hormone analogs those organs release, not tinkering with their genes. Do you realize that you're answering your own question? You just listed the various effects that you clearly realize come from organ implants, and then asked how they could be achieved without genetic change. You just said it yourself--with organ implants!


Besides, would you mind sourcing the 'no genetic modification' claim?

That's like asking me to source a claim that Eldrad doesn't wear a gruff hat. Go read the official fluff descriptions of the process that transforms a recruit into a Space Marine and tell me where it says the apothecaries alter his DNA. I'll save you some time: It doesn't. They implant his body with artificial organs that have been cultured in vitro, some of which secrete hormone analogs that stimulate growth in various tissues (for example, the Biscopea and Ossmodula) and some of which simply provide some biological function that the body's natural organs cannot (for example, the Betcher's gland and sus-an membrane). I know people generally assume to the Marines to be genetically modified, because the guys who wrote the fluff chose the unfortunately misleading name of "gene-seed" for the implant organs, but if you actually read the description of how a Marine is made, genetic engineering is never mentioned.

Vaulkhar
17-10-2007, 22:06
Except that there's no reference to immune system suppression, which would tend to imply that the host body has been tweaked to accept the organs as normal, something that tends to need gene modification - something similar to wasp eggs in caterpillars.

I agree, most of the work is done at the organ level with implants.

Biomass Denial
17-10-2007, 22:06
The organs that go into them where originally genetically engineered but thats about all the engineering thats being done.

Argastes
17-10-2007, 22:25
Except that there's no reference to immune system suppression, which would tend to imply that the host body has been tweaked to accept the organs as normal, something that tends to need gene modification - something similar to wasp eggs in caterpillars.

Well, there's no reference to genetic engineering either, so I don't think that's a valid argument. I could just as easily say that there's no reference to genetic engineering, which would tend to imply that the organs have intrinsic immunosuppressant properties... or that the engineered tissues of the organs are universally compatible and don't aggravate an immune response at all... or whatever else I wanted to believe. When the fluff doesn't make reference to ANY solutions to the rejection problem, it's not reasonable to pick one possible solution and claim that the lack of reference to that particular solution "implies" that another, equally un-referenced, solution is the case. The fact of the matter is, we have no idea how the gene-seeds avoid provoking an immune response, and the fluff doesn't imply any solution one way or another.

Mr_Rose
17-10-2007, 22:41
There not genetically modified. They have extras put into them but their actual DNA couldnt be change.
I personally prefer the term "meta-genetically enhanced" since their implants do alter their original DNA somewhat. Or at least the Space Wolves' do; the first "implant" (the canis helix) is what causes wulfenism, but that seems to be unique....

codicium_aeternum
20-10-2007, 13:27
um... werent the space marines and primarchs "the emperors great genetic experiment" werent they made in "genetic experiment labs"

the gene seed would genetically modify them through a retro virus, its not even hard to do is the thing... why wouldnt you do it...


and anyway, its the unspoken 14th implant... the birdassula that allows them to crap a bit runny rather than pee (birds dont pee, not enough size to maintain the water levels)

Argastes
20-10-2007, 13:45
um... werent the space marines and primarchs "the emperors great genetic experiment" werent they made in "genetic experiment labs"

That's true of the Primarchs, not ordinary Marines. The Primarchs were genetically engineered; they were wholly artificial organisms whose genomes were apparently pretty much hand-written by the emperor one base pair at a time. But Space Marines are created by implanting ordinary humans with artificial organs derived from the genetically-engineered bodies of the Primarchs, NOT by genetic engineering the recruits themselves. I suppose you could still call regular Marines a product of a genetic experiment, because their implanted organs are genetically engineered even if the Marines themselves are not, but it would still be a misnomer to call Marines "genetically engineered".


the gene seed would genetically modify them through a retro virus, its not even hard to do is the thing... why wouldnt you do it...

Because you don't need to, since all their superhuman powers can be provided by implanted organs? The fluff doesn't mention any genetic engineering, the fluff doesn't say the gene-seeds release a retrovirus, so arguing that it would do so is about as defensible as arguing that it turns Marines' hair blue. Besides, what would this retro-virus accomplish? It's not like Marines have any abilities that aren't accounted for by the implantation of their special organs.

Besides, genetic changes added to an organism once it's begun to grow beyond a cluster of undifferentiated stem cells are less and less likely to be expressed as the organism becomes more and more developed. By the time a human being was 13 or 14, which seems to be average recruitment age for a Space Marine, adding new genes would have very little effect. Adding a gene to an organism only accomplishes something if the expression of that gene plays a role in development that hasn't happened yet, and in humans, most development in which genetics plays a role happens in the womb. In other words, if you give someone who has brown eyes the gene for blue eyes, their eyes aren't going to up and change color; just adding the gene doesn't do anything, because that gene was only expressed when the person's eyes were first developing, which happened before they were even born. After that, the DNA describing eye color doesn't get read, so it doesn't matter what eye color it codes for. Adding genes to Space Marine recruits would have minimal effect, unless the recruits reproduced, in which case the genes would first be expressed in their children. Bottom line, genetic engineering is typically only useful for the next generation after the generation that actually got engineered, and of course all subsequent generations.

Mr_Rose
20-10-2007, 14:47
Adding a gene to an organism only accomplishes something if the expression of that gene plays a role in development that hasn't happened yet, and in humans, most development in which genetics plays a role happens in the womb. In other words, if you give someone who has brown eyes the gene for blue eyes, their eyes aren't going to up and change color; just adding the gene doesn't do anything, because that gene was only expressed when the person's eyes were first developing, which happened before they were even born. After that, the DNA describing eye color doesn't get read, so it doesn't matter what eye color it codes for.
And you were doing so well....
Quite apart from the atrocious misspelling of "colour", this is wrong in many factual ways too:
To start with, there is no such thing as a "gene for blue eyes". There aren't even any genes for eyes; anyone that tells you otherwise is lying to you and you should find out why.
If, and this is a big if, you could insert the gene for the correct enzyme into all the cells of a person's iris and get it to integrate properly into the relevant section of their DNA, their eye would change colour eventually, probably over a matter of months.
Every millimetre of the three metres of DNA in each of your cells gets read pretty much constantly. What differentiates cells is which genes are "on" or flagged for transcription. However, this can be changed and frequently is, depending on the cell's stress level and what all the cells surrounding it are doing.
The principle problem with re-engineering a multicellular organism such as a human is then; delivering the same gene to the same place in the genome of every single living cell then switching it on for generation of its product. With upwards of 20,000,000,000,000,000,000 cells in an adult human, this presents a staggering logistical problem more than anything else. However, we are not yet there and won't be for some time.
At least with bacteria you can just kill the ones where your mod didn't take....

But I digress. Space Marines, according to the fluff are not genetically engineered any more than any other population of humans in the galaxy, with the possible exception, as previously noted, of the Space Wolves, whose first implant isn't an implant at all, apparently involving the imbibing of a harsh mutagen of some description. I have a theory about this being why any and all foundings of SW geneseed anywhere other than Fenris fail, but that's for another thread.

This is also what puzzles me about the various ans sundry "can space marines breed" threads that pop up around here. The correct answer is "who cares? You're not going to get little space marines that way, give it up."

Hellebore
20-10-2007, 15:11
Go to this article to see exactly how a marine is supposed to be created:

http://uk.games-workshop.com/spacemarines/initiation/1/

You will note on page 3 under


RECRUITMENT AND INITIATION
The various implants cause vital changes in a Marine's physique and mental state. Many of these changes are controlled by natural hormonal secretions and growth patterns. Implants may not prove effective, or may not become fully functional, if they are carried out once the recipient has reached certain stages of natural development. It is therefore inevitable that recruits must be reasonably young. Tissue compatibility is also essential, otherwise organs may fail to develop properly.


Tissue compatability is only an issue with transplants, ergo they are not genetically modified. I can only assume that a very small proportion of the male population possess marine gene markers that make them capable of accepting the implants.


Also, under:


PSYCHO-CHEMICAL AND OTHER CONDITIONING
Implantation goes hand-in-hand with chemical treatment, psychological conditioning and subconscious hypnotherapy. All of these are essential if the Marine is to develop properly.

Chemical treatment – Until his initiation, a Marine must submit to constant tests and examinations. The newly implanted organs must be monitored very carefully, imbalances corrected, and any sign of corrupt development treated. This chemical treatment is reduced after completion of the initiation process, but it never ends. Marines undergo periodic treatment for the rest of their lives in order to maintain a stable metabolism. This is why their power armour suits contain monitoring equipment and drug dispensers.


We see that marines undergo continual chemotherapy for their entire lives to maintain their metabolism.

Space marines are very expensive meat machines that require continual monitoring and regulation. They have foreign organs stuck in their bodies and unnatural growth patterns applied to a physiology not evolved for it.

They are definitely not genetically engineered, nor are they particularly sophisticated. They ARE however, UB3R L33T K3WL.

Hellebore

baphomael
20-10-2007, 19:12
Fun Fact: Space Marine's aren't genetically modified.


Its a little known fact that Space Marines were created when Chuck Norris went "Man, you guys are pussies. Grow some balls."



Can enter a catatonic state to heal themselves - Can have crazy visions of Kahless in fiery caves - Space Marines [visions are cooler though]



Yea, but if your a Blood Angel you can have visions too! Just replace Kahless with Sanguinius and fiery caves with getting pwned by Horus.

TheSonOfAbbadon
20-10-2007, 21:48
Yea, but if your a Blood Angel you can have visions too! Just replace Kahless with Sanguinius and fiery caves with getting pwned by Horus.

Yeah, but Kahless never got the crap beat out of him by his brother, Kahless was the one doing the crap beating.

Plus, Klingons don't have to be placed in special 'crazyman suicide squads' when they have visions.

Mr_Rose
20-10-2007, 23:23
Yeah, but Kahless never got the crap beat out of him by his brother, Kahless was the one doing the crap beating.

Plus, Klingons don't have to be placed in special 'crazyman suicide squads' when they have visions.
The reason the Klingons don't separate he crazed berserkers out from the rest of the troops is that no-one from either side would ever notice the difference....

Argastes
21-10-2007, 00:12
And you were doing so well....
Quite apart from the atrocious misspelling of "colour", this is wrong in many factual ways too:

We Americans feel the same way about your atrocious misspelling of "color" ;)


To start with, there is no such thing as a "gene for blue eyes". There aren't even any genes for eyes; anyone that tells you otherwise is lying to you and you should find out why.

Right, it was an oversimplified argument. You know what I mean: EYCL1, EYCL2, EYCL3. http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/reprint/11/8/782.pdf

The pestilent 1
21-10-2007, 10:28
The reason the Klingons don't separate he crazed berserkers out from the rest of the troops is that no-one from either side would ever notice the difference....

*Refutes this*

There were plenty enough Klingons who weren't blood thirsty idiots.
Blood thirsty sane people, yes.
General Martok was mostly level headed, for example.

...Star Trek Nerd.

Bran Dawri
21-10-2007, 10:42
Solid plates for a ridcage - 23 ribs in a web pattern - Space Marines


Here, I'd actually give the Klingon the win here - a ribcage consisting of solid plates is gonna be hella tough to bend with, or turn part of your body with (Duck! Crack! Oops, there went my ribs - again), giving the Klingon the win in agility.

Ktotwf
21-10-2007, 10:50
The introductory video to Fire Warrior says that the Imperium is guarded by "legions of genetically engineered warriors."

If you want to be banal, GW said it. Its canon. The Space Marines are genetically engineered. Beat that.

Hellebore
21-10-2007, 11:11
GW also said:

that the chapter master of the Ultramarines was a half eldar astropath
Lynn Elgonsen founded the Dark Angels
orks are mammals
human and ork gangs race jetbikes on Rynn's World
genestealers are indigenous to Ymgarl
Ferrus Manus survived Istvaan
Leman Russ was an Imperial Guard general



EDIT: The space wolves' chapter house was the size of a 3 story building and was situated on a planet called Lycos 4 or sumsuch.

There are plenty of these 'GW said so' things - making that argument adds nothing to the discussion.

What is more likely, a statement with evidence backing it, or a one line statement with nothing but wishful thinking backing it?



And any number of other things. GW said it - it must be true...:rolleyes:

Hellebore

Ktotwf
21-10-2007, 11:13
Wow, Leman Russ had quite a career, huh?


What is more likely, a statement with evidence backing it, or a one line statement with nothing but wishful thinking backing it?

I have no wish to encourage pedantry. In a made up universe, what Games Workshop says goes.

Where is the wishful thinking by the way? I guess you meant to imply that I somehow wanted it to be true or something? I couldn't care less. But what is there is there.

Hellebore
21-10-2007, 11:26
So conflicting information is all true all the time?


Both Lynn Elgonsen AND Lion El'Jonson are the primogenitors of the dark angels at the same time...

Why even talk about anything in a fictional world if you are just going to do that?

The creation of a space marine article definitively states with copious examples how a marine is not genetically engineered. Kuju Entertainment's FPS Firewarrior mentions a single line about space marines being genetically engineered. Thus they must be both simultaneously be true?

Hellebore

Ktotwf
21-10-2007, 11:31
The creation of a space marine article definitively states with copious examples how a marine is not genetically engineered. Kuju Entertainment's FPS Firewarrior mentions a single line about space marines being genetically engineered. Thus they must be both simultaneously be true?
Hellebore

No, they are not simultaneously true. One (that Space Marines are genetically engineered) is true and the other one is not.

The real point I am trying to make is that it is silly to make an argument based around a turn of phrase...this thread just dissolved into some silly intellectual hairsplitting, and I am simply pointing out that such technical knowledge has little place in a fictional universe, where the parameters are defined by the imaginations of its creators.

Mr_Rose
21-10-2007, 11:52
Yes, but the writers at Kuju think that a lone fire warrior could a)take on an entire company's worth of Chaos Marines single handed and b)have the personal initiative to do so without the presence of an Ethereal.

I expect there was a fluff briefing somewhere where the Kuju writers were told about the background to 40K and someone mentioned "genetic enhancement" then "extra organs and huge muscles" in two separate but similar sentences describing Marines and whoever was taking the notes got them confused or simply wasn't listening properly.

Hellebore
21-10-2007, 11:53
No, they are not simultaneously true. One (that Space Marines are genetically engineered) is true and the other one is not.

The real point I am trying to make is that it is silly to make an argument based around a turn of phrase...this thread just dissolved into some silly intellectual hairsplitting, and I am simply pointing out that such technical knowledge has little place in a fictional universe, where the parameters are defined by the imaginations of its creators.

But they state that they aren't engineered in the Creation of a Space Marine article. They state HOW they are made in that quite clearly.

You are making a fallacious assumption.

The Computer game states "space marines are genetically engineered."

The Creation of a Space Marine article states:


RECRUITMENT AND INITIATION
The various implants cause vital changes in a Marine's physique and mental state. Many of these changes are controlled by natural hormonal secretions and growth patterns. Implants may not prove effective, or may not become fully functional, if they are carried out once the recipient has reached certain stages of natural development. It is therefore inevitable that recruits must be reasonably young. Tissue compatibility is also essential, otherwise organs may fail to develop properly.

PSYCHO-CHEMICAL AND OTHER CONDITIONING
Implantation goes hand-in-hand with chemical treatment, psychological conditioning and subconscious hypnotherapy. All of these are essential if the Marine is to develop properly.

Chemical treatment Until his initiation, a Marine must submit to constant tests and examinations. The newly implanted organs must be monitored very carefully, imbalances corrected, and any sign of corrupt development treated. This chemical treatment is reduced after completion of the initiation process, but it never ends. Marines undergo periodic treatment for the rest of their lives in order to maintain a stable metabolism. This is why their power armour suits contain monitoring equipment and drug dispensers.


Which is not compatible with genetic engineering - none of the above would exist if the marine was engineered.

Thus we have two statements by GW about the creation of a space marine, which as you say cannot be both true.

You choose one statement of 4 words with no other confirmation over another statement with a multitude of mutally supportive evidence in an article written about this very topic.:wtf:


Explain to me exactly how you justify that argument, because it makes no logical sense to me.

Hellebore

Mr_Rose
21-10-2007, 12:04
Especially since the sentence that says they're engineered was not written by GW rather by a staff writer working for a video game company already taking liberties with the fluff (see fire warrior vs. Chaos space marine).

Hellebore
21-10-2007, 12:05
Especially since the sentence that says they're engineered was not written by GW rather by a staff writer working for a video game company already taking liberties with the fluff (see fire warrior vs. Chaos space marine).

But fire warriors CAN take on chaos marines, lords of change, terminators, and obliterators - GW said so.

Hellebore

Mr_Rose
21-10-2007, 12:06
But fire warriors CAN take on chaos marines, lords of change, terminators, and obliterators - GW said so.

Hellebore
You do realise that you're going to have to add [sarcasm] tags to that before someone gets the wrong idea, right? :p

Ktotwf
21-10-2007, 12:13
Explain to me exactly how you justify that argument, because it makes no logical sense to me.

Hellebore

Settle down buddy. I couldn't care less to be honest...you're getting a bit riled up.

You seem to be glossing over my main point (and really only point) of how ridiculous it is to have arguments based on science in a universe with so many fantastical elements, especially when up could mean down if the GW staff said it did.

Who honestly cares?

Mr_Rose
21-10-2007, 12:23
Settle down buddy. I couldn't care less to be honest...you're getting a bit riled up.
...
Who honestly cares?
That is the most pathetic rebuttal since "I was only following orders". You should feel ashamed of yourself for using it and doubly so if you thought you just came up with it.

Ktotwf
21-10-2007, 12:27
That is the most pathetic rebuttal since "I was only following orders". You should feel ashamed of yourself for using it and doubly so if you thought you just came up with it.

lol. It wasn't a rebuttal. I am not making any argument other than this thread was a stupid waste of time...

somewhere along the line people started believing that I was making some hardcore argument that the Space Marines are genetically engineered, when, in my original post, the point was really that it was fundamentally retarded to have a big long pretentious and pedantic debate, using "Non WH40K related" science, trying to prove a point that means little and has little distinction for the designers of the game. If THEY can't be bothered to make the distinction, why should we care? The answer seems to be so that certain posters who love the look of their own typings can ramble on and on.

Argastes
21-10-2007, 16:45
lol. It wasn't a rebuttal. I am not making any argument other than this thread was a stupid waste of time...

somewhere along the line people started believing that I was making some hardcore argument that the Space Marines are genetically engineered, when, in my original post, the point was really that it was fundamentally retarded to have a big long pretentious and pedantic debate, using "Non WH40K related" science, trying to prove a point that means little and has little distinction for the designers of the game. If THEY can't be bothered to make the distinction, why should we care? The answer seems to be so that certain posters who love the look of their own typings can ramble on and on.

You do know that this is the fluff forum, right? If you don't want to see people engaging in discussions that occasionally try to view the 40K world in a realistic or critical manner, I suggest you find another forum to browse instead of slinging veiled insults at other posters.

Anyway, I don't think anyone has made and "big long pretentious and pedantic" arguments using "non-40K related science" to prove that Marines aren't genetically engineered. As far as I can tell, the main argument that Marines aren't genetically engineered is simply that if you read the fluff description of how they're created, there's no mention of genetic engineering. You think that's "pretentious and pedantic"? There could hardly be a clearer, plainer statement of fact.

Lavadude360
21-10-2007, 17:04
Wow Sm's pee acid - so do you!

You also spit alkali!

The whole pee-ing thing is just stupid. Of course they do but so does everyone else.

Also if they spat acid then all the salivatory glands in the whole body would have to be replaced which really ain't worth it. Not even in 40K.


my 2 cents

lavadude

TheSonOfAbbadon
21-10-2007, 17:18
Also if they spat acid then all the salivatory glands in the whole body would have to be replaced which really ain't worth it. Not even in 40K.

But they DO spit acid, it's a canonical, undisputable fact!

Lavadude360
22-10-2007, 12:19
I know but what advantage is it no one is going to let a SM get that close.

Must be really tedious altering every gland.

Mr_Rose
22-10-2007, 14:26
I know but what advantage is it no one is going to let a SM get that close.

Must be really tedious altering every gland.
Well, aside from the potential help in escaping confinement, severely corrosive acid spit would help the consumption of otherwise inedible materials, such as rock and refined metals.

Also, how tedious is replacing three glands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salivary_glands) anyway? Compared to, say, replacing the entire interior structure of the ear? Or implanting delicate membranous coverings under the cranium?