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Samurai33
17-10-2007, 19:22
Sorry if posted in the wrong section but..

I'm building my first chaos army and wanted to theme it towards a cavalry/mechanized unit. From the codex CSM I read that I can use rhinos, predators and LRs. This is all well, but I'd love to have razorbacks as well (they remind me of the US M2 Bradley). Is this a major no-no or could I pull it off, and how would I field that in a game (just follow the entry in the SM codex or...?).
Any inputs would be greately appreciated.

mistformsquirrel
17-10-2007, 19:24
In a game with friends who don't mind, you can do anything you want.

But by the rules? Nope. You have to use what's in your army list - which means definitely no Space Marine vehicles that aren't already in the list.

Ozendorph
17-10-2007, 19:29
Razorbacks are a post-heresy creation. Obviously more recent traitors could have them (along with sane dreads and other amenities), but the codex makes no allowances for that. If you want to play an force of recent converts, it's probably best to use a traited SM army.

Xenocidal Maniac
17-10-2007, 19:33
As the others have stated, if you want to use Razorbacks, you will need opponents' consent as they are not in the Chaos Codex. I, for one, wouldn't have any problem with it.

In games of Apocalypse, taking Razorbacks for your Chaos army would be legal.

Maybe construct the Razorbacks in such a way that they could double for Rhinos?

EVIL INC
17-10-2007, 19:41
If I were you, I would simply use a traited marine army with chaos models and chaosify up the razorbacks. That way, you can call it a "recently" turned chaos force. Of course, that would negate the use of dread special rules and daemons and such that are only avaiable to chaos.
Another would be if you just like them for thier looks, use them as rhinos with a fancy looking non-operational top. Likewise, if you convert a lil more, you can maybe use it as a wierd vindicater. Just tell your opponant that it is a "really powerfull warp shooter" that acts as a vindicater gun.
You would imagine that chaos would be able to use them wouldnt you? After all, they can make raids and steal geneseed why not make mechanical raids? They would also be able to loot battlefields. Either way, they would be able to study/copy/"improve" to make thier own razorbacks. Of course, balence-wise, that would make them too powerfull so it is best to draw the line somewhere. I for one am tickled slannesh pink just to finally get to take a vindicater without using an iron warriors list. My armorcast cannon of khorne will see a lot more vinsicater duty now.:evilgrin:

MrBigMr
17-10-2007, 20:00
Razorbacks are a post-heresy creation. Obviously more recent traitors could have them (along with sane dreads and other amenities), but the codex makes no allowances for that. If you want to play an force of recent converts, it's probably best to use a traited SM army.
Which is little silly, as wasn't the new codex made to present more 'modern' traitor marines, rather than the legions? If I was to make a resently fallen chapter, I would just use the normal SM codex. Even in CA2004 it was said that if you want to make a newly fallen chapter, you can use the SM codex.

sulla
17-10-2007, 20:04
Which is little silly, as wasn't the new codex made to present more 'modern' traitor marines, rather than the legions? If I was to make a resently fallen chapter, I would just use the normal SM codex. Even in CA2004 it was said that if you want to make a newly fallen chapter, you can use the SM codex.

Yes, but what's the point of reissuing the space marine codex with no ATSKNF but with marks, cult trooops and daemons as well? The books have to be a little different.

My advice if you really want razorbacks in your army so much; VDR them. You'll pay more, but you weren't playing them for some ingame advantage to who cares right?

Samurai33
17-10-2007, 20:17
Thanks for the inputs so far guys. I have no problems with the concepts of following the armylists in the respective codexes, but I also find it slightly annoying that CSM warbands would not be allowed to take that particular vehicle (though I guess that also goes for landspeeders and whirlwinds...and I do see the need to restrict CSM access to SM armor otherwise CSM would be totally overpowered.), based on the looting argument already mentioned above. Afterall isn't the razorback placed in between the rhino and predator in terms of firepower and such?
When it comes to recently turned chapter vs old school legions I get the feel when reading the C:CSM that warbands consisting of a mix of both these groups are the currrent CSM flavour. For my army/warband I wanted to throw in a commander+"retinue" that are recently turned to chaos banding up with longerserving CSM (all in the colours of the black legion). I don't see that this should either help or hinder what equipment or vehicles my guys would use (from a fluff point of veiw, not rule/armylist wise).
Anyways, using razorbacks as a cool ooking rhino is actually a very good idea..given current limitations.

Clang
17-10-2007, 20:19
a chaos rhino with a havoc launcher is tactically fairly similar to a razorback and can carry 10 troops

Ozendorph
17-10-2007, 21:12
Yes, but what's the point of reissuing the space marine codex with no ATSKNF but with marks, cult trooops and daemons as well? The books have to be a little different.

What's the point indeed ;) (they should have focused on the Legions)

victorpofa
17-10-2007, 22:03
a chaos rhino with a havoc launcher is tactically fairly similar to a razorback and can carry 10 troops

True. I intend to equip all my Chaos Rhinos with this handy little gizmo :evilgrin:

EVIL INC
17-10-2007, 23:38
There you have it, use the razorback models and use the havoc rules for them. Just let your opponants know that they are actually rhinos and the turrets are representative of the launcher.
Whoops, your not the OP, but the principle is the same.:)